Andrew Lum/Patrick Moon contact

[joeblast]

I'll third that. Most all of "the kunlun community" do not want to be involved in garbage like this, responding to hearsay and all kinds of ridiculous assertions about Max. If he did discourage anything, it was for that individual only, and I think that's where things get misconstrued most often - when one with too much of an ego gets told something they dont want to hear, they often lash out and then we wind up with a large waste of time in a thread like this and the individualized advice winds up getting extrapolated and twisted to not only apply to the whole 'community,' but with quite a dosage of negativity along with it. It is simply not necessary.

[rodgerj]

Edited March 22, 2010 by rodgerj

[bindo]

I'll fifth that. All of this talk seems to be about bizarro world Max. Not the humble, friendly Max I met.

And I agree Maeven needs to present some specifics. Otherwise, he just sounds like a shit starter.

 

All of this drama is so ridiculous. Max doesn't deserve any of this shit. I'm happy for him to have stopped public teaching. A few lame students ruined it for the rest of us.

[gendao]

Vortex Just as it is difficult to understand how Kunlun manipulates energy for "Bliss" with the use of "cooperative energy". Maoshan works on manipulation of energy for "Pain" and using "Non-Coopertive" energy. The shaking that you see on Kunlun is cooperative energy. If you see my class or Patrick Moon's class, we have learned that "Mr. Pain" and non-cooperative energy is our best friend. You see someone shaking in Patrick Moon's class or my class, they are in pain.

 

Please note that this is not trying to intimidate any members of this forum from visiting SSTT or Patrick Moon's class. Andrew Lum's classes are run much differently as "spirit fighting" is not what he teaches to his student. Patrick Moon teaches some of Andrew Lum's classes just so the students will see the Maoshan spirit fighting techniques.

 

"Mr. Pain" and "uncooperative energy" is very difficult to explain in metaphysical terms especially in words; however, you are more than welcome to visit our classes. Our classes are very friendly only because we cannot be afford to be unfriendly. This art is far too dangerous so we do treat this art with respect as we do all our students.

 

http://www.sstt-institute.org/

Interesting, so is this "pain" and "uncooperative energy" from blockages being released and detoxing? And if so, does it decrease over time as the energy body clears more?

 

Thanks, I would definitely check out a class if I were in LA! But let me know if you guys ever make it out to TX.

I have studied with Sifu Hata since last December. I had previously studied with Max for about a year and took several seminars and privates. I still practice some of the things I learned from Max, like Red Phoenix, and 5 elements standing, as he said those were from Grandmaster Andrew Lum. I am glad I was able to learn those from Max. Studying with Max caused me to be interested in learning more about the martial arts that he had studied with Grandmaster Andrew Lum.

 

I was then fortunate to find Sifu Hata and am grateful that he allowed me to become a student. Sifu Hata is authorized to teach from Si-Jo Patrick Moon and Grandmaster Andrew Lum. I attend his Sunday morning classes which are held in Los Angeles. Sifu Hata is an excellent teacher. He usually spends some time doing healing work on the new student. I have learned the following sets and forms since January: Sifu Hands, Ten Weapons Hands, the five elements forms (Wood, Metal, Fire, Water, and Earth.), Pa Kua stepping set. In January I will start the first of the three spirit fighting forms.

 

It is an honor to be studying with Sifu Hata in this martial art from this authentic Maoshan tradition. I am grateful to Sifu Hata for letting me be his student.

Craig, how would you compare and contrast the Kunlun & SSTT energy and experience? Edited September 2, 2009 by vortex

[Mantra68]

Andrew Lum is a great man and I have the utmost respect for him. He has a warm, grandfather-like kindness and I had an instant affinity for him. I am eternally thankful for the gifts he shared with the world, through Max.

 

Most of you don't know him so you have no need to gossip about him like a bunch of bored old ladies.

 

Please respect his privacy.

 

Also, Eileen and I will be bringing Jenny Lamb to teach a seminar in the next few months. The profits from the seminar will benefit the creation of the worlds largest peace monument: the Bodhivastu Stupa. To find out more about this amazing project click here: http://www.bodhivastu.org

 

Regardless of the the spew in this forum, the reality of who we are and how much we care about each other is much different than most people know.

 

Please do something positive with your time instead of wasting it trying to slander good people.

[ssttinstitute]

winpro07

Hata was advertised several time on the Kunlunforum.

 

winpro07,, I don't have access to the Kunlunforum so I have no idea what is being said or not said.

I have still asked you to identify yourself; since, obviously you know who I am.. however, you are still hiding as winpro07. I have offered to introduce you personally to Patrick Moon and visit my classes where all this can be cleared up in person

 

freeform

People are making assertions about what 'the kunlun community' think and do. So as someone who's part of 'the kunlun community' I wanted to clear some things up.

 

This is what I am trying to do at this time.

 

rodgerj Max has only ever spoken with respect towards his teachers. He did the same as Sifu Hata when he found out that random people were trying to contact Sifu Andrew Lum and Sifu Jenny and explained that these are people of honor and they don't need 100 random people calling and asking about personal relationships between them and Max!!

 

He has said many time that we are no better then him, he refuses to be called Sifu.

 

In fact you can see that Max and Chris have encouraged people to see Sifu Jenny and she talks of Max in the highest regard.

 

Max encourages his students to see Sifu Jenny; however, why are Kunlun students not able to meet with Andrew Lum?

 

The reason Max does not want to be called Sifu is because neither Andrew Lum nor Patrick Moon recognize Max as a sifu. In this way Max is just being honest, so I do not doubt his integrity regarding this matter.

 

bindo All of this drama is so ridiculous. Max doesn't deserve any of this shit. I'm happy for him to have stopped public teaching. A few lame students ruined it for the rest of us.

 

I completely agree that this drama is ridiculous! As much as you are defending Max. All of you are welcome to visit my class so I can see and hear you in person. Second, I am coming to the defense of my dear friends Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon. Some of you may not know what I'm talking about and some of you do.

 

Stop making accusations toward Andrew Lum and some woman having an affair.. and somehow this relationship is the reason Max and Andrew Lum had a falling out! I know Andrew Lum personally and he doesn't deserve this $hit! Some of you posting to this forum know exactly what I am talking about which is why I am offering an open invitation to you so you can visit Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon in person. I am also offering an open invitation to Max to meet with Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon so we can clear all these alleged derogatory comments in front of Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon!

 

If you read my post carefully, I have said that there is a fine line between mental illness and spiritual attacks. I have only asked that the Kunlun community be more sensitive to your community members. So this does not apply to those of you who are not mentally ill nor under spiritual attack.

 

Let's clear this up once and for all! Max, you and I go visit with both Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon in person! Since, Max lives in Hawaii.. it is easy to visit Andrew Lum; however, I will fly out to Hawaii to meet Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon. Any Kunlun members who want to join us(Max & myself) are more then welcome to come with Max to visit Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon.

 

I asked that these matters be handled discreetly in-house peacefully in the Kunlun community; however, this does not seem to be the case. Kunlun members will know first hand what exactly is the reason of Max had a falling out with Andrew Lum. This time the *TRUTH*!

 

Another interesting question? How many Kunlun people actually know Andrew Lum in person and if you met Andrew Lum, would he know you on a first name basis? This way when we meet with Andrew Lum, you will know exactly what we are talking about.

 

All Kunlun members invited! Just as you are trying to defend Max, I am defending Andrew Lum from these ludicrous rumors and heresay. So we can all settle this peacefully and amiably. There are thousands in the Kunlun community so I am sure none of you are threatened if only Patrick Moon and myself are present during this inquiry.

http://www.sstt-institute.org/

[joeblast]

 

Who wants to know? You are talking about 2 masters that can completely uproot the Kunlun Community. 50% of the post on this entire forum has promoted Max to hero status.

 

 

Do you really want to destroy Max this badly? Because this is what will happen if either Andrew Lum or Patrick Moon ever knew what Max really does, what Max claims he knows and how he treats his students!

~~~~~~~

 

 

This is what I am trying to do at this time.

 

 

 

Max encourages his students to see Sifu Jenny; however, why are Kunlun students not able to meet with Andrew Lum?

 

Who's making accusations? I havent heard one bad word about Andrew Lum or Patrick Moon - not here on TTBs, not on the kunlun forum, not anywhere. Yet the first words out of you are somehow threatening to uproot the kunlun community? Now you're just trying to "clear things up?" A few people here have already stated that Max has not said we are not to meet Lum. To reiterate, he has only asked us not to go digging up their personal information on the internet and calling him asking questions that are inappropriate for someone that does not know sifu or has had no interaction prior - basic courtesy, most all of us have agreed.

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to defend Lum or Moon from - certainly not max, certainly not the vast majority of the kunlun community. If you're asking people to stop tossing shit, that's fine, but it just looks less than proper to say such after one has already thrown shit.

Edited September 2, 2009 by joeblast

[rodgerj]

Edited March 22, 2010 by rodgerj

[Mantra68]

winpro07,, I don't have access to the Kunlunforum so I have no idea what is being said or not said.

I have still asked you to identify yourself; since, obviously you know who I am.. however, you are still hiding as winpro07. I have offered to introduce you personally to Patrick Moon and visit my classes where all this can be cleared up in person

This is what I am trying to do at this time.

Max encourages his students to see Sifu Jenny; however, why are Kunlun students not able to meet with Andrew Lum?

 

The reason Max does not want to be called Sifu is because neither Andrew Lum nor Patrick Moon recognize Max as a sifu. In this way Max is just being honest, so I do not doubt his integrity regarding this matter.

I completely agree that this drama is ridiculous! As much as you are defending Max. All of you are welcome to visit my class so I can see and hear you in person. Second, I am coming to the defense of my dear friends Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon. Some of you may not know what I'm talking about and some of you do.

 

Stop making accusations toward Andrew Lum and some woman having an affair.. and somehow this relationship is the reason Max and Andrew Lum had a falling out! I know Andrew Lum personally and he doesn't deserve this $hit! Some of you posting to this forum know exactly what I am talking about which is why I am offering an open invitation to you so you can visit Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon in person. I am also offering an open invitation to Max to meet with Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon so we can clear all these alleged derogatory comments in front of Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon!

 

If you read my post carefully, I have said that there is a fine line between mental illness and spiritual attacks. I have only asked that the Kunlun community be more sensitive to your community members. So this does not apply to those of you who are not mentally ill nor under spiritual attack.

 

Let's clear this up once and for all! Max, you and I go visit with both Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon in person! Since, Max lives in Hawaii.. it is easy to visit Andrew Lum; however, I will fly out to Hawaii to meet Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon. Any Kunlun members who want to join us(Max & myself) are more then welcome to come with Max to visit Andrew Lum and Patrick Moon.

 

I asked that these matters be handled discreetly in-house peacefully in the Kunlun community; however, this does not seem to be the case. Kunlun members will know first hand what exactly is the reason of Max had a falling out with Andrew Lum. This time the *TRUTH*!

 

Another interesting question? How many Kunlun people actually know Andrew Lum in person and if you met Andrew Lum, would he know you on a first name basis? This way when we meet with Andrew Lum, you will know exactly what we are talking about.

 

All Kunlun members invited! Just as you are trying to defend Max, I am defending Andrew Lum from these ludicrous rumors and heresay. So we can all settle this peacefully and amiably. There are thousands in the Kunlun community so I am sure none of you are threatened if only Patrick Moon and myself are present during this inquiry.

One thing you must understand is that this forum is filled with rumors and has been since Max started his seminars.

 

I have been successfully refuting the bullsh*t from the beginning. It has been a mix of confusion, jealousy and ignorance, but if you'll notice all of the people who actually know Max, defend him.

 

Don't get sucked in. There are many who, now that Max has quit teaching, seek to destroy all the good he did.

 

You also know Lum Sifu and you should know that this forum is not the place to be discussing these very personal matters between Max and him.

 

Max has always tried to protect Andrew from disrespectful people and that is the only reason he said for people to leave him alone. He never told anyone not to study with him.

 

We are supportive of Andrew Lum and Jenny and continue to work toward helping them and we will defend them to the end. They are GREAT people and a gift to this world.

 

The elements taught were for opening the energy channels and purifying and harmonizing the bodily tensions, so that energy could flow more freely and that one's capacity for energy could increase. No spirit fighting and no martial arts were taught.

 

As to what Max and Andrew disagree upon is nobody's business but theirs. It is a relationship that is precious to Max and one that I know he is looking to mend.

 

All those who are not involved in this matter (which is all of you) mind your own business.

Edited September 2, 2009 by Mantra68

[ssttinstitute]

[zencave]

...

Edited October 5, 2009 by zencave

[dakini]

Is a forum really the proper place to for this? It seems to me a PM approach would be more appropriate. I don't like reading ANY of this. It reads just like a gossip column and feels just as slimy. Any personal issues should be dealt with directly. Especially considering the level of practitioners involved. I believe every one of them deserves more respect that this. Just my opinion. I mean it with the best intention.

[Aetherous]

I agree with dakini. It is really questionable behavior to keep continuing this.

[fiveelementtao]

I just got back from meditating in the mountains for 3 days and I saw that a Shang Ch'ing Brother had left me numerous voice mails saying that I should look TTBs right away... I also saw that I had received some emails from friends and students asking me some very confusing questions...

Having now read this very long thread, I am considering how or whether or not I want to respond. But I will say, that I am, profoundly confused and deeply hurt... If I feel I can say anything without causing further pain and damage to anyone else, I will. If not, I will stay silent...

[gendao]

Edited September 3, 2009 by vortex

[freeform]

So, has anyone levitated yet from RP 1-3 or Kunlun 2?

 

Yes.

 

But then had to relinquish this attainment to be able to get back down and type this.

 

Hope you're pleased with yourself, Vortex.

 

[ssttinstitute]

But one thing that was brought up was the superiority of this martial art. And, not to be offensive, but that's got to require some proof. The vids on the website don't seem any better than most Wing Chun vids people show as demonstrations.... but WC has a poor track record when it comes to stuff like, say, fighting in the UFC.

 

So to say it's better than MMA and would render MMA useless, well, I'm gonna have to see more than some sloppy looking WC again, no offense. These qi strikes or whatever may be super good. But if they're so super good, why doesn't anybody prove it? You could floor pro fighters without breaking a sweat....

 

Sloppy Zhang, pick up an issue of MMA Hawaii. Patrick Moon is the ranking Si-Jo at this time having a higher rank than Andrew Lum or myself. There are no videos, nor explanations of what this art can truly do.

 

Buy a ticket and visit Patrick Moon, when you get to Hawaii I'll give you instructions how to meet him in class. It's been made clear that any demonstrations at this time will be given through Patrick Moon in which Maoshan has a new family, Sung Ho Tao. Because Patrick Moon's classes are free and at this time he is the top ranking master(Si-Jo), ask him personally for a demonstration I do mean this respectfully .

 

Now that Patrick Moon's Sung Ho Tao of Maoshan has gone public -see for yourself and don't take my word for it. There are many who have taken Si-Jo Moons challenge and no one has lasted more than a few seconds. So I am not asking you to take my word nor anyone elses word. Because of the danger of this art, it has not been available to the mass public. Patrick Moon is skilled enough to stop 1-8 people at one time without injuring you and without breaking a sweat. It's worth the trip to Hawaii because there may be a time when this art may not be available to the mass public. Patrick Moon has called me personally that these demonstrations and detailed explanation from those outside the community be done by only by Si-Jo Moon. In this way there is no chance of misunderstandings and doubts similar to what has happened in the Kunlun Community. If you also want to meet Andrew Lum during your stay, Patrick Moon will make the arrangements.

 

Join our forum below if you are serious and I will assist you regarding this matter of meeting with Patrick Moon for personal demonstration Maoshan(Sung Ho Tao) in his class. You are not the first who have doubts outside our community and I'm sure you won't be the last. PM me on your 'Username' on the SSTT forum after you have joined and be prepared to buy a ticket destination to Honolulu, Hi. This goes for anyone else interested. If there are a group of you(50 or more) who are sincerely interested, Patrick Moon will be able to get you discount rates through a travel agent who is also within our community. Discount rates on hotel and airfare if (50 or more) are interested and you coordinate to travel to come all together. I'm sure more than yourself has doubts where you live and Hawaii is a beautiful vacation spot all year round. You should be able to find at least 50 MMA interested friends to join you for a discount trip to Hawaii

http://www.sstt-institute.org/forum.html

 

Well, Max is a different animal who does not call himelf a Maoshan teacher or officially teach Maoshan. Hence, he rebranded it "Kunlun." He basically just credits it as the source for Kunlun, but does not claim to officially teach it in its entirety.

 

As far as the "Gold Dragon Body" claims - I believe there used to be a photo on the kunlunbliss site of Max's GDB manifesting with a green glow. Kan has also seen it in person, looking "blinded" by it as if he were staring at the sun. He and a few other top students have also reported partially dematerializing. So whether anyone believes this or not, there are at least some alleged witnesses to this other than just Max...

 

But, I will let you guys know for sure when I achieve mine.

 

GDB wouldn't necessarily be within your Maoshan lineage today, though. Max claims that he "rediscovered" this attainment by "recombining" 2 pieces of the puzzle. So, it's not something that would have been directly taught to him by your teachers in Hawaii. May be worth at least keeping an open mind on then, even if you are a healthy skeptic.

 

Anyhow, I don't see any real conflicts here. The key is IF someone were claiming to be an official teacher officially teaching the official Maoshan system...but Max is not.

So, has anyone levitated yet from RP 1-3 or Kunlun 2?

 

Regarding the 'Golden Dragon Body', there are also many throughout the world claiming to be Jesus Christ while others claim to be the Messiah. Some have drunk poison Kool Aid or worn Nike shoes eating poison pudding to reach their UFO destinations. Below are links to assist those needing help from breaking loose from this type of Cult Leadership mentality blind sheep following the blind mentality.

 

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/cultbehavior.htm

http://www.factnet.org/rancho5.htm

http://www.factnet.org/coercivemindcontrol.html

http://www.csj.org/studyindex/studycult/st...atisdescult.htm

http://imspeakingtruth.wordpress.com/2008/...e-in-a-cult-if/

http://www.enlightened-spirituality.org/Wa...onal_cults.html

Edited September 4, 2009 by ssttinstitute

[D~C]

I know both Sifu Hata (ssttinstitute) and Michael Denney (fiveelementtao) through years of training and fellowship. Both men take great pride in what they do, both are peaceful, and both have big hearts, though sometimes their behaviors may seem harsh or out of line. I also know Si-Jo Patrick Moon through Sifu Hata and have had the honor of learning from all three of these gifted men. I am forever grateful - through the good times, and the hard times.

 

Max Christensen I have met only briefly on one occasion. He seemed like a very nice person and there is nothing bad I can say about him, or his art, or his students (some of which I have gotten to know and like).

 

I have never met Sifu Andrew Lum.

 

It is not uncommon for these types of quarrels to come up in martial arts communities. Personally, I prefer to stay out of "kung fu politics" when I have no direct responsibility within a particular situation. Sometimes situations just need to be handled though.

 

What I do find unfortunate is that this "quarrel" (whether or not bearing any merit) has now been publicly aired and debated; I feel this should have been best handled behind-the-scenes in private. I don't believe this public display is healthy for either party. "Whose truth is your truth?" - it continues to drive a deeper wedge and many people will choose sides as multiple reputations are damaged.

 

I don't give much power to hearsay. If I am not responsible for it or to anyone about it, then I don't care who said what. My focus is on my SSTT practice and teaching the students in the Los Angeles class. Anyone who is interested in coming to the LA SSTT class is very welcome to do so - you will be treated with respect, honor and dignity. Energy Fist (SSTT)

 

Above all, I encourage people to learn from all of the people I mentioned above. Don't let any perceived negativity in this thread prevent you from learning from any or all of them.

 

This is all I will say (publicly) about this matter.

Edited September 3, 2009 by D~C

[-O-]

 

If there are a group of you(50 or more) who are sincerely interested, Patrick Moon will be able to get you discount rates through a travel agent who is also within our community. Discount rates on hotel and airfare if (50 or more) are interested and you coordinate to travel to come all together. I'm sure more than yourself has doubts where you live and Hawaii is a beautiful vacation spot all year round. You should be able to find at least 50 MMA interested friends to join you for a discount trip to Hawaii

 

 

 

Dr. Hata, with all due respect, you are starting to sound like a travel ad.

 

 

 

(One thing I find interesting in these threads is how much impact they have on search engine rankings).

[Guest winpro07]

A year ago after a seminar when max helped to harmonize the nine palaces.

I stood up and became astounded. The lower mind fell alway or disipated and the illusion

of indiviual selfhood become abundantly clear. "I" observed the vast interconnectedness

that we all share as fractions of the higher mind and the supreme oneness of

of the undivided tao.

 

What Max gave freely and without agenda, without ego to all who were willing to receive is

truley the greatest gift.

 

Taken away the name of Kunlun Nei Gung, of Red Phoenix, Of golden Dragon body ,and,

- the result is the same.

 

This is alchemy in it's truest form. This is the becoming ShivaShakti a true manifestor in creation merging

of the tao as self.

 

this is the root of the root

Edited September 3, 2009 by winpro07

[freeform]

(One thing I find interesting in these threads is how much impact they have on search engine rankings).

 

 

It quickly became clear that this thread is nothing more than an advertising campaign.

 

Amazing how many times the names 'Andrew Lum' and 'Patrick Moon' could come up in one paragraph!

[Aetherous]

That might just be the way Sifu Hata communicates. I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

[Lucky7Strikes]

(One thing I find interesting in these threads is how much impact they have on search engine rankings).

Yes,

 

This thread is no longer limited to the Tao Bums. It is one of the main results that come up when searching for Andrew Lum or Patrick Moon.

 

Since Mao Shan is becoming "public," I find it disheartening that it be introduced by a thread where it is more about conflicts than the art itself. .

[-O-]

 

 

It quickly became clear that this thread is nothing more than an advertising campaign.

 

 

In more ways than one.

 

That might just be the way Sifu Hata communicates. I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

I won't. It's one thing to attempt to patch things up - clear the air etc. But this is all over the map, and I find to be disgraceful behaviour for someone of this position. I say, as one who apparently knows a thing or two about accusations ; if your are going to do it, then put some thought into what you are doing first. Anyway - that's just me making more accusations myself -with tongue in cheek of course.

[Lucky7Strikes]

From what Sifu Hata has written so far, Mao Shan and "Spirit Fighting" seems to have a different focus than what Max has taught to the public.

Edited September 3, 2009 by Lucky7Strikes