Andrew Lum/Patrick Moon contact

[Xienkula1]

 

At one time, someone from the forum (xienkula is I think how you spell their screenname) contacted Sifu Lum about the Red Phoenix practice. Sifu Lum knew it, and said that it was specifically for Max. It was taught from him to Max. This is documented on this forum.

 

Hmmm that's right. However, the effort was intended very respectfully and not to disrespect anyone. In fact, Sifu Lum was extremely kind in answering all questions. He never described Max as a charlatan. Rather he described him as someone "special" and this RP was "special to him(Max)"

 

Gassho.

 

Xi

[Aetherous]

Thank you Xi. I do believe that your intention was respectful and good.

 

_/\_

[lino]

I believe I read somewhere that Max consulted his "aunties" in Hong Kong regarding RP - So RP may have nothing to do with Lum's (just a thought).

 

 

 

Sifu Hata, are you in contact with PH Toledo?

 

Honestly your words are always referencing Moon and Lum and at this point any comment you make I find to be incredulous - if Moon or Lum have issue which they would like to raise publically then perhaps they should formally do so.

 

Do you have permission, consent from Lum/Moon to speak on their behalf?

 

Are they wanting you to publically address these things for them - if so be clear - no more allusions?

 

Or do you have another MA demonstration coming up that you would like promoted? Travel deals?... You come of as some one with mixed intention who tries to pretend to be respectful and sincere - but is very obviously hostile and gossip mongering (and very intentionally doing so) - just come out and say what you have to say. Make the accusation you want to make - cause, dude, you are coming acorss as someone with emotional issues, who is too much of a coward to stand in the drama he wants to create. Either start your meds again, or say what it is you want to say with out the politically correct two step. Own it!

 

Please don't associate Dr.Hata with PH Toledo. From the times that I have talked to PH Toledo, he has never mentioned Dr.Hata or Mister Lum. I don't call them Sifu or SiJo. That, I feel, is a privilege for the students that have been admitted to their Lineage.

 

I don't think he needs permission...who would you rather see "handle" the situation, Mister Moon or Dr.Hata?

 

I prefer that the conversation remain civil. Civility and courtesy are things that are freely given. Respectfulness and sincerity are things that are earned...maybe even painstakingly.

[-O-]

Anyone speaking on my behalf - implied or otherwise needs my permission - or I would be upset. I reference Toledo because Hata makes a reference to a *REAL* Max (opposed to a false max - one could presume).

 

 

When mister hata entered this forum, I as many others too, gave him the benefit of the doubt - showed proper respect. As far as I am concerned he has earned my disrepect... I unlike many others, who wish their life to only be about a bed of roses, occassionally don't let people off the hook for the realities they are creating. Mr. Hata is not reflecting well on his elders, not reflecting well on his students, nor is he reflecting well on this forum. In fact Lino, I am in actually trying to help the man. I really don't care what he says about Max or Kunlun... but ever post he writes I get this pit in my stomache and the thought runs through my head "If he new how he is coming across I don't think he would do it" in fact if he ever does have lucity around this in the future I'm sure he will regret - not nessesarily what he is saying - but how, and how he is being about it. He may have a sifu title - but all I see is foolishness. Mr hata to me is a straw dog - because today I choose his folly to engage - tomorrow is another story.

Edited October 9, 2009 by -O-

[ToL]

True martial arts are, in and of themselves, about things like good behavior, respecting yourself, respecting others. But as Americans, we think of what we can take, not what we can give."

 

 

 

 

 

Healing to all.

[ssttinstitute]

Healing to all.

 

Healing is the key! The reason for this thread before it got hijacked is very simple. Most people who study with Andrew Lum are able to attain metaphysical powers and Max is no exception. Andrew Lum had been very amiable whether his students wanted to claim to be trained warlocks, witches, Red Phoenix, etc. trained by Andrew Lum. So I have no doubt that Andrew Lum would tell someone who contacted him how special they are... this is what he tells everyone so Max is no exception. Fact is the only person Andrew Lum trained and trusted enough to be Si-jo is Patrick Moon. Fact! Si-jo Patrick Moon has been entrusted to be the spokesperson for Maoshan Tao as bestowed by Si-jo Andrew Lum recognized by the State of Hawaii. By this decree, many of the demonstrations that I use to give will now be done only through Si-jo Patrick Moon.

 

This thread would not have been started if Max did not have metaphysical powers. Max studying with Andrew Lum for however brief time would be able to attain a certain degree of metaphysical energy. This is the issue directed to the few in Kunlun leadership. The fact being there are a few people in Max's Kunlun Community that had been threatened by the Kunlun leadership for innocently visiting my classes. I have welcomed them as being in the same lineage and gave them all the respect due to the lineage of Si-jo Andrew Lum. Some Kunlun visitors claimed to being spiritually attacked by some in leadership of the Kunlun-Maoshan Community. This will stop immediately! I know who you are and though you're not active on this forum, you are monitoring this thread and that is all that matters. This is only directed to the few in Kunlun leadership who are generating these spiritual attacks. This is the only reason for this post and this thread!

 

So it is not about Red Phoenix, witches or warlocks trained in Maoshan; rather the ability of the Kunlun-Maoshan to render a Kunlun student spiritually helpless and open to spiritual attacks.

 

I have allowed my students to freely attend Kunlun Seminars out of respect for the Andrew Lum lineage. I have the ability to stop spiritual attacks immediately so it is not for me, rather a former Kunlun student where it took me about 1 month to restore this individual back to normal. So I am well aware of the reported "bliss" for $600 and reported attacks for "free" done only by a few leaders in the Kunlun community. The rest of the Kunlun leadership is innocent.

 

The Kunlun/Maoshan community has been cut off from Si-jo Andrew Lum due to allegedly accusing Si-jo Andrew Lum of improprieties previously mentioned. I have no problem getting this woman's name. Si-jo Patrick Moon and I are well aware of these false accusations to alienate the Kunlun-Maoshan community. It is only a few in the Kunlun Community causing all these problems and perpetuating these attacks so this is not directed at the collective Kunlun Community as a whole. Most of the Kunlun Community are innocent, kind hearted with good intentions.

 

I will personally become involved only because this situation started because a few Kunlun members visit my class and were persecuted for no other reason than curiosity about sharing the same lineage. The same reason my students have visited the Kunlun-Maoshan community, curiosity and respect of the lineage.

 

Because Maoshan can easily misused... --I can promise you if you are admitted into a Maoshan instructor or sifu training program; it is guaranteed that you will hate me, Si-Jo Moon or Si-jo Lum. If you are even accepted into such a program we're not looking to be your friends, we're not looking for your respect and we really don't care if you leave the program or leave our classes. Maoshan training will disrupt your very essence and if you decide to quit and join Kunlun-Maoshan, BJJ, MMA, etc., we wish all our former students the best. We do not spiritually attack our students for visiting other martial arts/meditation programs. 99% of our students will wash out and will never want to return, that's a fact! The reason why the real Maoshan Tao has so few instructors and even fewer Sifus and Si-jos. Maoshan Sifus and Si-jos don't need you! Spirit Fighting is completely different from a Bliss or average martial arts program so training is on a completely different dimension.

 

Dat Maoshan is funny kine yeah? Eh junior boy, no wipe yo hanabaddah wit yo shirt! You go hui someweah else den

 

http://www.sstt-institute.org/

[thelerner]

Me thinks you protest too much.

and have other agendas on your mind.

 

Most of the time its best to state ones truth and walk away.

You seem kinda caught in a loop.

 

 

 

Michael

[-O-]

Well, just from the little information that an be found on this site regarding this lineage there is...

 

1) faked deaths vs. the dopplegangers (take your pick)

 

2) earthlings, reptiles, and other sundry creatures

 

3) being kicked out of school for loosing a stareing(sp?) contest with teacher and thus fled the state

 

4) impropreities with students

 

5) spiritual attack...

 

 

From the outside looking in, why would anyone want to have anything to do with SSTT, KL, SD, or anyone else associated with Maoshan?

 

There are both teachers and renengades here at TTB let me ask you the value of understanding how to teach and its importance?

 

Is it enough to just know what to teach or should a potential sifu/master whatever have some education on group dynamics, interpersonal relationship etc?

 

Have any of the teachers here educated themselves in this regard?

 

My thinking is Yu Ma and Vajrasattva are both pretty real and level headed guys so my take is they wouldn't encounter this kind of nonsense - but is that due to personality type?

 

Why, in settings like University, colleges, knitting classes, or the art of clog dancing; do these types of student/teacher dynamics not occur as commonly as they do in this area?

 

My thinking... the tao of transferrence/counter-transferance, the teh of projection/counter-projection haven't quite emerged in eastern wisdom.

Edited October 10, 2009 by -O-

[lino]

From the outside looking in, why would anyone want to have anything to do with SSTT, KL, SD, or anyone else associated with Maoshan?

 

Which organization is "SD"?

[Guest winpro07]

it feels like he about to crash

[-O-]

 

Which organization is "SD"?

 

 

 

Spirit Dao (sp to obscure the reference)

[gendao]

Well, just from the little information that an be found on this site regarding this lineage there is...

 

1) faked deaths vs. the dopplegangers (take your pick)

 

2) earthlings, reptiles, and other sundry creatures

 

3) being kicked out of school for loosing a stareing(sp?) contest with teacher and thus fled the state

 

4) impropreities with students

 

5) spiritual attack...

From the outside looking in, why would anyone want to have anything to do with SSTT, KL, SD, or anyone else associated with Maoshan?

It's interesting, I've just recently heard about similar accusations being leveled against another modality I was involved in, ThetaHealing. Namely, that students were unknowingly dealing with an "imposter" entity and psychic monitoring & attacks were sometimes launched against high-level defectors. Such allegations have caused a rift and some confusion in the community...and it goes back to our ability (or inability) to really discern.

 

I think until we open our channels and 3rd eye sufficiently to see firsthand what all is going on, it can be difficult for us to ever really KNOW...if that is even philosophically possible. Until then, we are forced to rely upon various hearsay ("he said, she said") and observing precedence (lineage).

 

Well, yet another reason to work on opening my MCO, kundalini & 3rd eye now!

[lino]

 

I think until we open our channels and 3rd eye sufficiently to see firsthand what all is going on, it can be difficult for us to ever really KNOW...if that is even philosophically possible. Until then, we are forced to rely upon various hearsay ("he said, she said") and observing precedence (lineage).

 

Well, yet another reason to work on opening my MCO, kundalini & 3rd eye now!

 

Nevermind

Edited October 10, 2009 by lino

[Sloppy Zhang]

Edited October 11, 2009 by Sloppy Zhang

[-O-]

It's interesting, I've just recently heard about similar accusations being leveled against another modality I was involved in, ThetaHealing. Namely, that students were unknowingly dealing with an "imposter" entity and psychic monitoring & attacks were sometimes launched against high-level defectors. Such allegations have caused a rift and some confusion in the community...and it goes back to our ability (or inability) to really discern.

 

I think until we open our channels and 3rd eye sufficiently to see firsthand what all is going on, it can be difficult for us to ever really KNOW...if that is even philosophically possible. Until then, we are forced to rely upon various hearsay ("he said, she said") and observing precedence (lineage).

 

Well, yet another reason to work on opening my MCO, kundalini & 3rd eye now!

 

I think the assumption that we - as mere mortals are not able to discern - is to buy the story (or drink the cool-aid) - and thus keep us unable to ever discern. Everytime I have seen these sorts of things happen in a community there has always been some consistency.

 

1) The emphasis on respect - yet when you discern what it is they are asking for it is really subordinance.

 

2) A high focus is on the people and not the teachings (think of how we all know the names of the players in these dramas - if all of that mental effort was focused on the actual teaching then how would all of this be different)

 

3) The people who hold the "respect" or authority eventually or occassional behave very badly - like calling out the other in this thread - or faking deaths - or calling people energetic vampires or a doppleganger etc. etc. etc. at some point the celebrities are involved in the creation of the drama.

 

For me what it really comes down to.... are these people and their actions (as a group) really people I would want to emulate? Or better yet - If my child behaved this way, how would I feel about them (pride shame)?

 

This is not about discerning the actuality of realities as "real" - this is about collapsing reality against very obvious emotions - like jealousy - control - anger - betrayal - there is nothing "other worldly" about these discernments. All psychology here - without a doubt in my little mind. Whatever happen to "keeping it real"?

[Owledge]

These two men are the best of the best in the world and until you've see what they can do.. you've never seen real martial arts.

As you might know, ninjas are super-cool and have real ultimate power. And unless you are a ninja, your power is neither real nor ultimate.

[Lucky7Strikes]

This is getting silly. .

 

I don't think what anyone says to Sifu Hata will matter anymore.

 

I really hope this gets sorted out in person. The only benefit this thread would have is people recognizing that martial abilities have nothing to do with wisdom. I don't doubt Sifu Hata can take on 20 MMA fighters, do the Mao Shan "challenge," open his own dojo, whatever. That's not what Kunlun was taught for. Max didn't teach Mao Shan spirit fighting.

 

On a side note, I went to see Thich Nhat Hanh today. That man wouldn't have to lift a finger to subdue 20 fighters. .

Edited October 10, 2009 by Lucky7Strikes

[Theladyphoenix]

Mr. Hata,

 

Please feel free to refer back to the following terms that you electronically agreed to, when you, as everyone must do before becoming a GUEST on this forum.

 

You sir, are still out of control and should take a look at the reflection of yourself and your insensitive and hurtful words, and stop creating CHAOS by speaking NONTRUTHS. Furthermore, through your postings, I would say that you have violated nearly every one of the underlined conditions listed in the Taobums Terms and Rules. Please see below. Once and for all, cease your ranting and raving and sensless banter, which in essence is nothing more than self aggrandizement, slander and defamation of character.

 

Let it go. It's for the best. And please realize that you no longer need to pretend to be the Hero/rescuer for any Kunlun community member. You are hereby relieved from this responsibility and worry.

 

We are all on our own paths. Remember?

 

 

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Edited October 10, 2009 by Theladyphoenix

[lino]

 

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Sorry

 

I couldn't let this one pass and I am not going to let it pass either.

 

All they do is feed people drugs that screw them up, put people under an enormous amount of debt, and reduce career prospects (since ailments get documented) with no hope of relief. I already went this route so I know first hand.

[bindo]

As you might know, ninjas are super-cool and have real ultimate power. And unless you are a ninja, your power is neither real nor ultimate.

Right on! Real Ultimate Power

Edited October 10, 2009 by bindo

[Sloppy Zhang]

You know.... I don't really care.

 

And here I am deleting posts which I didn't think I'd do

 

But it's not like I said anything too enlightening so....

Edited October 11, 2009 by Sloppy Zhang

[VCraigP]

 

Not to disrespect, but unless someone can show something more than people slapping each other..... I dunno. If I could fly to Hawaii and experience it for myself, I would, but right now I can't and..... that's why they invented the internet, so people don't have to go there in person all the time.

 

 

Dude. At least do a little research.

 

 

Sifu Hata teaches SSTT in L.A.

 

And that's about as involved as I am gonna get here...

 

peaceout

 

Craig

[Sloppy Zhang]

Edited October 11, 2009 by Sloppy Zhang

[-O-]

Hate to bump this thread.... but look how this is effecting the Lum reputation... the TTB thread is making its rounds through the MMA community (that would be Mixed Martials Arts not ... er uh Metaphysical Martial Arts) ...

 

 

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2241069

(listed under the "Martial Arts BS, Fraud, Investigations, and Standards" forum)

Edited October 13, 2009 by -O-

[fiveelementtao]

Dear Sifu Hata,

I respectfully request that you please remove any and all videos from the SSTT website and youtube channel containing my likeness or voice. You may continue to use any videos I have edited for you that do not contain my likeness or voice.

 

I have stayed silent about this controversy on a public level out of respect for our previous friendship, but the escalating negative attention that this thread is receiving as it spreads on the internet is causing me personal discomfort as I do not share your position in the controversy between SSTT and Max Christensen..

 

I do not wish anyone to get the impression that I support SSTT's recent statements concerning Max nor do I wish to give the impression that I presume to speak for anyone in the Lum family lineage other than myself. Since you have chosen to expel me from both your tutelage and SSTT, it is only fitting that you remove my likeness and voice from any materials that you currently use to promote SSTT. At the very least, it will remove any potential confusion for SSTT in the future.

 

As your former student and friend, I humbly request that you grant me this one last favor.

Since I am unable to reach you in any other way, I am forced to put my request on this forum.

 

It is my sincere hope that this disagreement between you and Max be resolved in private in a peaceful manner in order to avoid any further negative attention to the Lum lineage...

 

Thank you for your quick action in this matter,

Your former student and friend,

Michael Denney