Illiteracy In Biology&Anatomy

[宁]

...as well as physics, chemistry, psychology.

 

Here's why I think so:

- moving Qigong/Taiji involves practices that have to do with muscles, bones, joints and tendons. If you know your body better, you'll know which practices are good for you, and for what reason.

 

- neigong practices that involve working with inner organ breathing and fascia compression can benefit greatly if one knows (and eventually gets to FEEL) how his insides are connected

 

- meditation practice involves neurotransmitters, hormones, the lymphatic system, heart and blood vessels, so it's only fair to acknowledge that a proper education in biology and anatomy could only greatly benefit and enhance one's practice.

 

Also there is a tendency to sustain different practices and outcomes of practices with terms related to modern science. While for traditional taoists this doesn't make too much sense, to us it surely does, because this is our background, it's the basic interpretation mode, that we have been educated with.

So having this mind-tools at hand, we can very easily navigate thru the various theories that are presented to us.

 

I added a poll, just to get some feedback...

Feel free to vote and if you want, give a short comment on your vote.

 

L1

[Encephalon]

...as well as physics, chemistry, psychology.

 

Here's why I think so:

- moving Qigong/Taiji involves practices that have to do with muscles, bones, joints and tendons. If you know your body better, you'll know which practices are good for you, and for what reason.

 

- neigong practices that involve working with inner organ breathing and fascia compression can benefit greatly if one knows (and eventually gets to FEEL) how his insides are connected

 

- meditation practice involves neurotransmitters, hormones, the lymphatic system, heart and blood vessels, so it's only fair to acknowledge that a proper education in biology and anatomy could only greatly benefit and enhance one's practice.

 

Also there is a tendency to sustain different practices and outcomes of practices with terms related to modern science. While for traditional taoists this doesn't make too much sense, to us it surely does, because this is our background, it's the basic interpretation mode, that we have been educated with.

So having this mind-tools at hand, we can very easily navigate thru the various theories that are presented to us.

 

I added a poll, just to get some feedback...

Feel free to vote and if you want, give a short comment on your vote.

 

L1

 

Amazing. The results seem to contradict what I perceive as the reigning sentiment in this forum (and this is a harsh criticism here, so hold on), that scholarship and sincere inquiry exists in TTB but for only a fraction of the population.

 

I'm wondering what the stats would be if you posted a poll about the social and behavioral sciences? My guess would be that most would find them even more pertinent, probably because the learning curve is not as long or as steep.

 

Thanks for performing this service.

[Marblehead]

Okay. So I voted 'It's quite important'. And this is because of a theme I repeat knowingly that we should know what our capabilities and capacities are so that we can perform to the best of our abilities.

 

Happy Trails!

[Sloppy Zhang]

My best friend is a bio major, I have several friends that are physics majors, and a couple friends that are chem majors or taking graduate level courses in their fields.

 

For me personally, I can't take those classes. I just don't get it, not to mention all the work and stuff that involves in it... just not me

 

But luckily these friends can explain complicated concepts to me in easily understandable and, most importantly, RELEVANT examples. Many times these lessons have led me to various big and small revelations in my practice

 

So I'm spiritually minded, but I am very grateful for my friends who can put up with all the science classes

[Mal]

I went with It's quite important.

 

Not so much for the knowledge per say because depending on your level it goes from a broad "It works like this" (highschool) to while "I know a lot about a specific subset of X I realize I know almost nothing about how it really works" (PHD)

 

But I really do appriciate the Scientific Method ... which I learnt doing undergraduate psychology

[Encephalon]

I went with It's quite important.

 

Not so much for the knowledge per say because depending on your level it goes from a broad "It works like this" (highschool) to while "I know a lot about a specific subset of X I realize I know almost nothing about how it really works" (PHD)

 

But I really do appriciate the Scientific Method ... which I learnt doing undergraduate psychology

 

I was a geography major, so I can't claim to have mastered the hard sciences. But I was a critical thinking junkie, and I do know that a little intellectual humility goes a long way in avoiding the pitfalls of assuming more than one knows or indulging in speculative frenzies about things that are ultimately unknowable.

 

But as a personal trainer, and a relatively new student of energy arts, basic anatomy is necessary for mind/body union, and essential (for me) in simply being able to visualize and work with dan tien small turbine energy work. (Waysun Liao terms). I cannot imagine progressing toward more advanced levels of internal awareness without knowing where my kidneys are.

 

(They're behind the couch!)

[宁]

Ah

 

To me, the 'catch' of this thread and poll was a discussion around two-three items:

- illiteracy = do people perceive that the lack of knowledge in the fields of biology/anatomy is quite a deficiency to any ordinary person, but to practicioners all the most...

- hazardous = why would it be hazardous? that's a pretty confusing term, heh?

- irrelevant = of course some will be challenged by the title and vote for this option... as daoism works on connecting everything, all the most the body and mind, i'd like to hear how they think it: does it have a rational argumentation, or is it a feeling of 'what do i/you care?'

[CarsonZi]

The less you know the less you have to let go of. I voted irrelevant.

 

Love,

Carson

[宁]

 

Interesting... sounds like an excuse to me

[atena]

I voted of little importance,

I would separate the intuitive being-in-touch knowledge/experience, and the information that is all around us. To be honest, I don't quite understand what you're trying to say

 

Illiteracy In Biology&Anatomy, Hazardous To Practicioners? I doubt it, I think it is more hazardous to not trust what one knows inside. In essence to me, we persons are feedback loops in bigger feedback loop of the world. It is more a get-in-touch to reclaim them, or pay the prize for not doing that, relationship.

Edited September 5, 2009 by atena

[Mal]

Illiteracy In Biology&Anatomy, Hazardous To Practicioners? I doubt it, I think it is more hazardous to not trust what one knows inside.

 

I have trouble trusting my feelings and I feel that comes from our education system with external exams and tests. I think we often want to think/know/understand everything with our mind first. Sometimes I feel something, but dismiss it because I don't understand it. Then later when I learn more my mind goes "oh yes that's what I felt I understand now". But I already felt it and I could have known at that moment if I just trusted myself enough to.... trust

 

Knowing the terminology becomes more important when you want to share experiences as then it gives you a common language that is specific and focused. Like any jargon that helpful to those that know the language and another barrier to those that don't.

 

I guess you could have

 

wisdom or knowledge

some sort of continuum of wisdom <---> knowledge

or wisdom and knowledge interacting and helping each other

[atena]

Yeah, there surely is a relantionship between wisdom & knowledge. Whatever information we're needing in whatever form, but not restricting it to be anything specific.

This probably sounds very sad but I get my most of those 'Aha' moments when watching TV

...and even worse, from those stupid reality tv stuffs, and also comedys etc

Well, whatever works...

[Marblehead]

Well, whatever works...

 

Amen!

 

Happy Trails!

[Ya Mu]

I didn't vote, because if I did I would have to vote twice. Once for very important, and once for irrelevant.

On the one hand I require college level anatomy & physiology for graduates of my medical qigong certification program. Self-explanatory common sense - they will be working on other people.

 

But on the other hand, in day 1 of my program I start trying to shake people out of mental activities to get them to remove the mind from the equation in order to tune into the wu wei.

 

I think it depends on which of these arts we are referring to. For example, martial artists practicing arts such as Tai Jee would benefit greatly from courses in engineering, particularly statics and dynamics. Knowing about moment arms and other particulars of these sciences could increase their efficiently by a substantial factor as well as help to keep them from injury. But someone who only practices qigong would get no benefit from these sciences. They may however, get some benefit from studying A&P, as long as they are willing to give it up at some point; the higher level aspects of medical qigong, for example, goes far beyond conventional science and does not follow linear thinking.

[frp]

[Andrei]

I say very important.

 

Qi is electricity. There is nothing out there but electricity.

 

RPYz3iWmyLo

 

V026kSw4XCs

 

no wonder so many pitfalls in cultivation, just because lack of understanding. ignorance is just that lack of understanding. we are electrical machines and we function just like any robots. actually we were made to be robots.

[宁]

Ah

 

How well does this thread paints a picture of the average ttbum - that remains to be seen.

 

I want to add that there were two instances that made my mind regarding what to vote:

- I took a glance at the complexity of the training and knowledge that a daoist disciple has to go through.

- My experience with practicioners that take things 'on intuition only' showed me why they discard learning: they are Very self-centered.

Simple, eh? Not to me.

I keep watching them over the years, to see if there's a progress of any kind in their life:

 

The ones that don't wake up to the bitter truth that alchemy requires hard work, dedication and being at peace with the idea that things may not come out as they planned, well, they just keep on doing what they are doing: nothing spiritual, only some kind of exotic culture.

[Gerard]

Totally irrelevant.

 

Learn/do get informed about the underlying principles of TCM TCM and you'll quickly understand.

[宁]

Before we skip up to the Real World,

We still have to deal with This One...

 

Knowing implies taking responsability,

That's why everybody runs away from it...

 

[Pax]

I voted "Of Little Importance". Then again I'm very new to this so I have a fairly simplistic view...if a couple of millennia's worth of people managed to practice well without this knowledge I'm not sure why it's so relevant now?

 

(just as an aside, I'm fairly proficient in three of the mentioned disciplines and have general college course level knowledge of the remaining two)

[Dreamingawake]

I think it helps to know, but it's not vital. If you keep training your bound to figure it out on your own. I can feel my organs and I've only been at it seriously for a couple of years. It seems logical that in 10 or 20 years I should have quite a vivid picture of the inner workings of my body.

[Birch]

Sometimes I don't know my ass from my elbow

 

I think it depends upon the way you approach learning things. So if for example I was learning what we tend to call "western" medicine, I would go to school and learn those things. If I want to learn TCM I would have to approach it through that set of learnings. I think anatomy would actually be different depending on which one you choose.

 

I don't see how you can learn practice without doing it though.

 

Learning changes our relationships to things (and us in the process), so it could be worth being picky about what we learn and how we go about doing it. A fun example is the whole "sperm penetrates egg" theater we learned in biology. How do you know that big fat egg doesn't just yuck up the sperm? I've read a few of those theaters too, but only when the discussion is oriented to unfaithful wives...Either way, what does it change? Maybe quite a lot of things.

 

My attempts at scientific experimentation as far as KAP goes are pretty dire. I never control the conditions and I have no hypothesis whatsoever. I'm going the participant observer route;-)

 

Since I'm presently learning to feel things, including my organs, joints and fluids (I am right this minute captivated by that traditional image of a plushy red blood cell;-)), I'm not sure what learning where bits of them are, what they're called or look like would bring - maybe help for visualization techniques? And would that be cheating in my current exercise?

 

I know this makes me a useless candidate for a medical exam in either tradition. When I did 5E meditation I looked them all up - I had no idea where my spleen was! It, however, knows exactly where I am and won't let me forget it;-)

[Old Man Contradiction]

i voted quite important but really wanted to vote on the middle ground. If you work hard and pay attention to your body you don't need any theories, scientific or energetic. The fact of your experience is primary as long as your inquiry is completely honest and truthful. Having a good teacher is necessary for body stuff. To be one with the Tao, a book can replace a teacher....

[宁]

Just remembered a daoist story...

 

It seems in ancient times daoists were very interested in human anatomy and biology. As they could study extensively plants and animals, compile huge books with classifications and typologies, they could not do the same with the human body.

The only oportunity then was to perform autopsy.

The problem was that it was considered a form of desecration. There were a number of cases of daoists that were killed because they risked their life, going into cemetaries and unberry the dead, so they can perform autopsy on them, to learn how the human body works on the inside.

The gift of inner vision was not bestowed to every practicioner, but the knowledge on anatomy seemed to be vital to them.

Other cases were that when the Emperor had some favours do offer to some daoists, they would ask the bodies of the people that were sentenced to death, to open them... sometimes they would perform vivisection...

 

Nowadays, all this information regarding anatomy, physiology, biology and such, is free and available to any of us. To daoists, the body is the foundation of the practices, and a great gift of heaven, which they try to understand and use as support for the alchemy practices that they have developed.

 

Maybe is just me, but aside these ideas, it seems a bit silly to say that you're not interested how are you made, and what are you made of. It's your own body for god's sake, you have to know how it works, in order not to ruin it.

 

Especially practicioners, that do things to their brains and bodies, they have to know how and what buttons to push. If they do something wrong, they do it at their own expense.

Which reminds me, the medical and pharmaceutical industry thrives exactly on: ILLITERACY in biology and our own anatomy....

 

[宁]

bump