I am starting Baguazhang classes on Thursday

[innerspace_cadet]

I am excited to report that I am starting Baguazhang classes this coming Thursday. I signed a one year contract with the sifu who runs the studio, who studied under grandmasters in Beijing. I was quite nervous when signing the contract, but now I am enthusiastic about it. During the introductory class, he kept reminding me that Bagua is a very difficult martial art to learn, perhaps because he thought I wasn't a serious student. But something in my gut tells me this is the martial art for me, I can't explain it. I don't care how difficult it is. This is something I want to master.

[Old Man Contradiction]

hell yeah dude

[Sloppy Zhang]

Kind of nervous about the one year contract

 

Might be kind of late, but did he tell you with whom he studied?

 

Long years of being conned by smooth talkers have taught me, no matter what they say, ask for a lineage. If they can't provide it, if they can't name names that I can go and talk to people and ask around in the MA community that can corroborate their story.... then I just don't go for them.

 

Secret lineages from hermit grandmasters? Hmm.... it would have to be real good material, and I wouldn't want to sign a year long contract at all.

 

He could very well be teaching some wushu competition form of bagua-like prancing around, and won't teach you any real internal aspects. I dunno, not to place any doubts in your mind.

 

Go for it

[Iskote]

...

Edited September 1, 2009 by Iskote

[innerspace_cadet]

Sloppy Zhang,

 

I know, I know. But he's the only guy who teaches Bagua in the Colorado Springs area; trust me, I searched exhaustively on the Internet, in phone books, and in Bagua directories, and he's the only one. My misgiving is I have to pay this dude $136.00 USD a month for his services. My other misgiving is that another potential student showed up to the introductory class, who had more experience with Bagua than I. And the sifu seemed to kiss his ass, while belittling me. When he asked me what I knew about Bagua, I told him my "book knowledge" because I had no practical experience with it. He made some snide remark about me getting the information from wikipedia. He seemed to compare me with the other student, saying "his goals are somewhat loftier than yours." I really want to learn Bagua. But I feel this dude is somewhat of a dick. But what choice do I have? This guy has no competition. The only other place I can learn it is in Woodland Park, which is 30 minutes through the mountains.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Sloppy Zhang,

 

I know, I know. But he's the only guy who teaches Bagua in the Colorado Springs area; trust me, I searched exhaustively on the Internet, in phone books, and in Bagua directories, and he's the only one. My misgiving is I have to pay this dude $136.00 USD a month for his services. My other misgiving is that another potential student showed up to the introductory class, who had more experience with Bagua than I. And the sifu seemed to kiss his ass, while belittling me. When he asked me what I knew about Bagua, I told him my "book knowledge" because I had no practical experience with it. He made some snide remark about me getting the information from wikipedia. He seemed to compare me with the other student, saying "his goals are somewhat loftier than yours." I really want to learn Bagua. But I feel this dude is somewhat of a dick. But what choice do I have? This guy has no competition. The only other place I can learn it is in Woodland Park, which is 30 minutes through the mountains.

 

Honestly?

 

I'd get a book or some DVD's. They'll cost a LOT less than $136, you only have to pay it ONCE, and you'll get a good amount of material to chew over. Then invite some friends over to try and push you or something (so you can test out your structure, things like that) in a playful/experimental manner. Then if there are people offering seminars, try to make it out to one of those once or twice out of the year to fine tune some stuff.

 

I definitely know what it's like to live in an area with crappy MA choices. I take the approach of learning from books/DVD's, then testing it out against my friends every once in a while. You get out what you put in, and if you are really determined and really take the teachings to heart, in my opinion and in my experience, it's doable.

 

That said, you've paid, so might as well put your full work into the class

 

But I would advise you to not stop reading. Learn as much as you can from the art. I dunno who this guy is, but if he acted like that on the first day, he might not give you full disclosure on techniques and where to improve. You're gonna have to do that yourself.

 

But again, I don't know the full situation. Good luck in any case

[Aetherous]

That's awesome you have a teacher for a year. Dedicate yourself to learning whatever he has to teach, instead of second guessing it. Suck it up if you're insulted or if the training is hard. Regardless of anything, that will make it worth it.

[Gerard]

...I signed a one year contract with the sifu who runs the studio...

 

Hi,

 

Care to explain what this shit is? LOL!

 

...who studied under grandmasters in Beijing...

 

What Bagua lineage is the one you are about to start?

 

I am curious to know who those grandmasters are as well, if you don't mind to find out and let us know in here.

 

Anyway, Bagua is not that difficult to learn. Takes some time and perseverance.

 

Good luck!

 

 

Edited: typo.

Edited September 1, 2009 by durkhrod chogori

[Mal]

If it turns out to be excellent, you won't care what it cost. If not pfff it's only money who know where this may lead.

 

Your misgivings could be warning signs but you won't know till you have a good go so why worry about others and attitudes. Sometimes good Sifus seem to know what we deeply desire and avoid feeding our ego in that way. The thing I personally look out for are constant injuries in class (although some even like that)

 

Have fun

[Baguakid]

innerspace_cadet, can you post lineage and teacher's name?

 

I know someone in the Denver area, how far are you from there? He teaches Fu style and is an exceptional martial artist. I've known him since the early 80s.

 

Can you get out of this contract? Is there a grace period?

[innerspace_cadet]

innerspace_cadet, can you post lineage and teacher's name?

 

I know someone in the Denver area, how far are you from there? He teaches Fu style and is an exceptional martial artist. I've known him since the early 80s.

 

Can you get out of this contract? Is there a grace period?

 

Well, I handed him a notarized letter today saying that I wanted to cancel the contract, which is in the grace period. He offered to have me try a month for 99 dollars, then see at the end of that month if I want to continue. I told him I'd check out a school in Woodland Park that also teaches Bagua and get back to him in a week.

 

Kelly Martin is his name. I don't know the exact lineage, but he says he trained with masters in Beijing, and also under Kenneth Cohen.

[Aetherous]

http://www.ninedragonbaguazhang.com/sglmartk.htm

 

Well, apparently it's Jiulong Baguazhang as taught by Sifu John Painter. Another member of the bums practices that style: Dale Dugas.

 

I suppose it's good to have your options open.

[Baguakid]

If asked about lineage he should proudly and clearly state his lineage.

 

I have absolutely no problem with anyone asking me my lineage or who my teacher is. Trained with some masters from Beijing or in Beijing doesn't cut it..

 

Think about it this way, eventually you might want to teach and someone will ask you, what's your lineage... what can you say then?

 

I'm glad you were able to get out of this contract. I thought the monthly fee was very high. Heck, Gong Zhongxiang in Monterey Park charges around that much and he's got tons of experience.

[Jesse]

Well, I handed him a notarized letter today saying that I wanted to cancel the contract, which is in the grace period. He offered to have me try a month for 99 dollars, then see at the end of that month if I want to continue. I told him I'd check out a school in Woodland Park that also teaches Bagua and get back to him in a week.

 

Kelly Martin is his name. I don't know the exact lineage, but he says he trained with masters in Beijing, and also under Kenneth Cohen.

Is this the guy?

www.selfcarearts.com

If it is his bio explains who his teachers are and they are definitly legit teachers. If you don't get a good vibe from him though I would look other places. From my expirence if you have some reservations about your instructor your motivation to practice the art is diminished.

[beatthinker]

Don't worry and keep looking. A thirty minute drive isn't that bad... I started to explore bagua, and the next thing you know.. it's a lifestyle, not a MA. So I will probably be circle walking and practicing for the rest of my life, sifu or no, so its worth it to do the research, be patient and find the right place. when i walked into my kwoon, it felt like coming home.

[Gerard]

If you can afford it, try paying a visit to Dong Haichuan's hometown: Beijing, Bagua's Mecca. There are still some good masters left, even today.

 

Make sure when you walk, it is done low and slow. Once you clear your blockages (mainly Liver Qi, the real cancer of modern society) you will be able to walk 2-3 hours a day. It takes time to get there, but you'll get there.

[Dale Dugas]

Let me know if you have any questions.

 

There are other people who teach Jiulong Baguazhang in Colorado.

[innerspace_cadet]

Let me know if you have any questions.

 

There are other people who teach Jiulong Baguazhang in Colorado.

 

Where in Colorado are they located?

[Dale Dugas]

FYI About Martin Kelly.

 

Martin Kelly is not a certified instructor of Jiulong Baguazhang and should not even be using the name. He is not part of our international association nor is he affiliated with us in any manner whatsoever. I am sorry to hear he seems to be interested in taking people's money rather than being an honest person.

 

It is sad to see people disrespect people in this manner as well as use teachers names and system names to make a name for themselves.

 

If you are interested in learning Jiulong Baguazhang in the Boulder area, you can contact Barry Solway.

 

His website is: http://www.spiralpatharts.com/

 

Let me know how I can be of service.

Edited September 8, 2009 by Dale Dugas

[JessOBrien]

I don't know Colorado geography, but I know someone who is one of the best Ba Gua practitioners and best human beings I've ever met. His name is Lee Burkins:

 

coloradointernalarts.com

 

He will not steer you wrong.

 

Jess O

Edited September 8, 2009 by JessOBrien

[innerspace_cadet]

I called Martin Kelly today and left a message, saying I wanted my money for the month refunded. So far he hasn't called me back. At least I'm not locked into a monthly contract, and I have several copies of the letter I gave to him. I should have trusted my gut; I sort of sensed the guy was bullshit from the start.

 

Last weekend I went up to Woodland Park to see David Simeone about Bagua training. What a difference! I asked David about training with him, and he recommended against it, because he only offers private lessons in Bagua and that would cost too much. David was not out to get my money at all. He even gave me some things to do on my own, such as doing a circle walk on bricks.

 

It just so happens that the Tai Chi teacher I've been studying with was taught by David, and he recommends studying with her to get my foundation in Tai Chi before progressing to Bagua. It definitely pays to "shop around."

[Baguakid]

Perfect!! David is my kung fu brother and the guy I was going to recommend to you. I've known David since 1984 and in fact he told me a guy asked him about bagua last time I talked to him on the phone.. (late last week or so IIRC).

 

You can't go wrong with David. He has Tons of knowledge but he's real kung fu. You will learn you azz off with him.

[DaoChild]

Hi,

 

 

Anyway, Bagua is not that difficult to learn. Takes some time and perseverance.

 

Good luck!

Edited: typo.

 

I beg to differ - Bagua is very difficult! To understand all the complexities of the art takes many, many years (e.g. thousands of hours of practice time with and without partners).

 

Not trying to discourage anyone.. but it's definitely *not* an easy martial art. The footwork alone has a dozen different variations.

[Gerard]

I beg to differ - Bagua is very difficult! To understand all the complexities of the art takes many, many years (e.g. thousands of hours of practice time with and without partners).

 

Not trying to discourage anyone.. but it's definitely *not* an easy martial art. The footwork alone has a dozen different variations.

 

I know it is not easy. Love teasing the audience sometimes, sorry

 

Anyway getting back to the OP:

 

 

He even gave me some things to do on my own, such as doing a circle walk on bricks

.

 

No need to to that. Just work on a flat surface around a tree doing your Ding Shi Ba Zhang (Ding Shi) religiously. It is the breakfast you will do before you start your lunch: Ba Da Zhang, Lao Ba Zhang, Long Xing or whatever you might be engaged on.

 

This is what is going to really strengthen yor tendons and stretch the fascia:

 

 

Second palm.

 

Low and slow! It really makes a difference specially in the beginning stages. Pure neigong.

 

 

It just so happens that the Tai Chi teacher I've been studying with was taught by David, and he recommends studying with her to get my foundation in Tai Chi before progressing to Bagua. It definitely pays to "shop around."

 

Not really Tai Chi, Xingyi is definitively more helpful.

 

 

Good luck.

[Baguakid]

I beg to differ - Bagua is very difficult! To understand all the complexities of the art takes many, many years (e.g. thousands of hours of practice time with and without partners).

 

Not trying to discourage anyone.. but it's definitely *not* an easy martial art. The footwork alone has a dozen different variations.

 

 

Agreed.. one of my bagua teacher's students, who before coming to him was an accomplished Chen Taiji practioner, nearly passed out on his first lesson of Bagua.

 

Bagua performed correctly is Very demanding.

 

Regarding footwork. I have only seen one guy on youtube who performs Bai and Kou correctly. Only one.

 

Bagua is Very difficult to perform correctly.