The Tao Of Nietzsche

[Marblehead]

Okay. Time to hear from Nietzsche again.

 

From my collection:

 

Only sick music makes money today.

 

Oh Shit!!! I'm going to get in trouble with this one - I just know it.

 

Happy Trails!

[Marblehead]

[Marblehead]

Nietzsche said, "It is hard enough to remember my opinions, without also remembering my reasons for them!"

[Marblehead]

[Marblehead]

Neitzsche said:

 

"Talking much about oneself can also be a means to conceal oneself."

[Marblehead]

And Chuang Tzu said,

 

"A bait is used to catch fish. When you have gotten the fish, you can forget about the bait. A rabbit trap is used to catch rabbits. When the rabbits are caught, you can forget about the trap.

 

Words are used to express meaning. When you understand the meaning, you can forget about the words. Where can I find a man who forgets about words to talk with him? For the learned is not necessarily wise, and the good talker is not necessarily clever.

 

There are some things that you can talk about, and some things that you appreciate with your heart. The more you talk, the further away you get from the meaning."

[Marblehead]

Neitzsche said:

 

"At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid."

[Marblehead]

Chuang Tzu said:

 

Great understanding is broad and unhurried; little understanding is cramped and busy. Great words are clear and limpid; little words are shrill and quarrelsome. In sleep, men's spirits go visiting; in waking hours, their bodies hustle. With everything they meet they become entangled. Day after day they use their minds in strife, sometimes grandiose, sometimes sly, sometimes petty. Their little fears are mean and trembly; their great fears are stunned and overwhelming. They bound off like an arrow or a crossbow pellet, certain that they are the arbiters of right and wrong. They cling to their position as though they had sworn before the gods, sure that they are holding on to victory. They fade like fall and winter - such is the way they dwindle day by day. They drown in what they do - you cannot make them turn back. They grow dark, as though sealed with seals - such are the excesses of their old age. And when their minds draw near to death, nothing can restore them to the light.

 

(Burton Watson translation)

[Marblehead]

Neitzsche said:

 

"The advantage of a bad memory is that one enjoys several times the same good things for the first time."

[3bob]

Nietzsche is dead,

 

The Golden ones are not.

[Marblehead]

Nietzsche is dead,

 

The Golden ones are not.

 

 

No, no. He is still alive and well in my mind.

 

Golden Ones? I am ignorant of this concept.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

And Chuang Tzu said:

 

"You train your eye and your vision lusts after color. You train your ear, and you long for delightful sound. You delight in doing good, and your natural kindness is blown out of shape. You delight in righteousness, and you become righteous beyond all reason. You overdo liturgy, and you turn into a ham actor. Overdo your love of music, and you play corn. Love of wisdom leads to wise contriving. Love of knowledge leads to faultfinding. If men would stay as they really are, taking or leaving these eight delights would make no difference. But if they will not rest in their right state, the eight delights develop like malignant tumors. The world falls into confusion. Since men honor these delights, and lust after them, the world has gone stone-blind.

 

When the delight is over, they still will not let go of it. They surround its memory with ritual worship, they fall on their knees to talk about it, play music and sing, fast and discipline themselves in honor of the eight delights. When the delights become a religion, how can you control them?"

[contrivedname!]

[Marblehead]

[contrivedname!]

[Marblehead]

ah ha! it seems then that one interpretation of this piece is that nietzsche likes to defend heretics w/ zarathustra as his mouthpiece (relate to confucius as zhuangzi's mouth piece). Jesus (Christians and others) were in their era deemed "heretical" (loose useage here please) and were thereby killed painfully by crucifixion. in a later eras there were those killed for similar reasons, in likewise painful fashion. seems nietzsche has conflated the founder of christianity with victims of the inquisition.

 

why remain silent, stonegourd (can i call you that?)?

 

Doesn't matter what you call me. After 20 years in the Army I have been called more things than you could ever imagine. (Just remember that we are supposed to refrain from personal insults on this board, Okay?)

 

I think it would be fair to suggest that Nietzsche's biggest problem with religion, and especially Christianity was the evil done in the name of love. It is my understanding that he very much disliked what the Christians were doing to the Jews during his lifetime. Just imagine what he would have thought about what happened in Germany during the 1930s and 1940s!

 

Actually, I don't think Nietzsche had a problem with Jesus. His problem was with Paul.

 

The reason for my initial silence was that I have no intention of trying to cut down any religions in this thread. It is my wish to only present the parallel thoughts of Nietzsche and Chuang Tzu.

 

Peace & Love!

[Martial Development]

If you like Nietzsche, don't miss his comic strip:

http://www.losanjealous.com/nfc/

[contrivedname!]

Doesn't matter what you call me. After 20 years in the Army I have been called more things than you could ever imagine. (Just remember that we are supposed to refrain from personal insults on this board, Okay?)

 

I think it would be fair to suggest that Nietzsche's biggest problem with religion, and especially Christianity was the evil done in the name of love. It is my understanding that he very much disliked what the Christians were doing to the Jews during his lifetime. Just imagine what he would have thought about what happened in Germany during the 1930s and 1940s!

 

Actually, I don't think Nietzsche had a problem with Jesus. His problem was with Paul.

 

The reason for my initial silence was that I have no intention of trying to cut down any religions in this thread. It is my wish to only present the parallel thoughts of Nietzsche and Chuang Tzu.

 

Peace & Love!

 

an insult marblehead-stonegourd they're somewhat synonymous (as some folks call the head a gourd for slang) so i thought it would be humorous. i was initially going to say 'brickface' but i thought that smacked a bit too much of insult...

 

...and the nazi's used the idea of 'Superman' in their propaganda.

 

good reason i suppose. i felt my statement was actually raising up Jesus, and Christians whom wouldn't sanction such atrocities as inquisitions, etc.which would by default mean all of the professed christians i have spoke with on this board, by their statements, obviously wouldn't seem to support what you call 'violence in the name of love'.

 

a funny thing i just noticed when i was typing; on my last line i had typed 'obviously would' and omitted the three characters "n't". viewed without those characters this would've been a pretty big insult (or could be preceived as such).

 

an interesting thing i have noticed on boards is that it is very easy to misconstrue someones meaning, without body-language interaction and voice inflection.

[Marblehead]

an insult marblehead-stonegourd they're somewhat synonymous (as some folks call the head a gourd for slang) so i thought it would be humorous. i was initially going to say 'brickface' but i thought that smacked a bit too much of insult...

 

...and the nazi's used the idea of 'Superman' in their propaganda.

 

good reason i suppose. i felt my statement was actually raising up Jesus, and Christians whom wouldn't sanction such atrocities as inquisitions, etc.which would by default mean all of the professed christians i have spoke with on this board, by their statements, obviously wouldn't seem to support what you call 'violence in the name of love'.

 

a funny thing i just noticed when i was typing; on my last line i had typed 'obviously would' and omitted the three characters "n't". viewed without those characters this would've been a pretty big insult (or could be preceived as such).

 

an interesting thing i have noticed on boards is that it is very easy to misconstrue someones meaning, without body-language interaction and voice inflection.

 

Hi Contrived,

 

No, I didn't take insult. You should have been around when I was irritating some of the members and saw how they really got into the "marblehead" thing. It was funny, actually.

 

Yes, the Nazis did use the 'superman' concept. Fred's sister allowed the Nazis (she was one) to misuse his thoughts many times.

 

I think it is fair to talk about religions as long as we state that the words are our opinion. We shouldn't be stating our opinions as if they were facts. That would be just wrong.

 

Yes, I did notice the typo and had to reread the sentence so I wouldn't get the wrong understanding. I make those kinds of typos now and then. My brain goes faster than my fingers do.

 

Anyhow, I think there is much commonality between Nietzsche and Chuang Tzu and that is why I started the thread. Just a little way to look at some of Chuang Tzu's thoughts from a different perspective.

 

Peace & Love!

Edited March 30, 2010 by Marblehead

[contrivedname!]

back to the examination at hand...

 

one basic point that is key is that both seemed to challenge the moralities of their day. This is supported by various examinations within their work. a major point of departure would be the style. of course this is my preception w/out either in the original language. its much easier to read 'darkness' into nietzsche's philosophy.

 

--

 

"The advantage of a bad memory is that one enjoys several times the same good things for the first time."

 

i could actually relate that to a story from liezi about an old man who basically had what today we would term alzheimers. the family, distraught, sought out a healer to 'fix the problem'. upon being 'fixed' the man flew into a rage, and when he had calmed some explained that in such a state profit and loss (in a broad sense) had been forgotten. thats my paraphrase from memory, didnt feel like a copy and paste .

 

thats not too off topic is it Marb? didnt want to diverge from the thread more than i already did

 

as to the mention that something is our only our opinion, thats of course true. i just get tired of writing imo, or typing it our all of the time

 

you must have my computer hacked marble... i reread my posts before tossin' em up and corrected that before posting...

[Marblehead]

Hehehe. Excellent response. I will break it down to reply.

 

back to the examination at hand...

 

one basic point that is key is that both seemed to challenge the moralities of their day. This is supported by various examinations within their work. a major point of departure would be the style. of course this is my preception w/out either in the original language. its much easier to read 'darkness' into nietzsche's philosophy.

 

Yes, Nietzsche can easily be misunderstood and like you said, portray 'darkness'. But it's not, of course. That is why he is till with me today. Because I was greatly uplifted when I read him thirty years ago.

 

"The advantage of a bad memory is that one enjoys several times the same good things for the first time."

 

i could actually relate that to a story from liezi about an old man who basically had what today we would term alzheimers. the family, distraught, sought out a healer to 'fix the problem'. upon being 'fixed' the man flew into a rage, and when he had calmed some explained that in such a state profit and loss (in a broad sense) had been forgotten. thats my paraphrase from memory, didnt feel like a copy and paste .

 

thats not too off topic is it Marb? didnt want to diverge from the thread more than i already did

 

That was excellent and right on mark! The old man was living each moment as it came to him and the "fix" screwed things up for him.

 

as to the mention that something is our only our opinion, thats of course true. i just get tired of writing imo, or typing it our all of the time

 

Yeah, I know. And I tire of it sometimes too but being as outspoken as I am I need to do it often. I don't expect my opinions to fit everyone.

 

you must have my computer hacked marble... i reread my posts before tossin' em up and corrected that before posting...

 

Way to go!!! I need to do that more often too. I generally type and post then read what I ahve typed and all too often have to go back and edit for corrections. If we start right the going will be easy. When the going is easy you will generally be right. (That was a paraphrase from someone else, I think Chuang Tzu.)

 

And BTW, I think the Nietzsche quote was a beautiful way of saying "Live in the moment and enjoy each experience as if it was new and unique."

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

If you like Nietzsche, don't miss his comic strip:

http://www.losanjealous.com/nfc/

 

Those are great. I had to force myself to stop looking.

 

Thanks for sharing.

 

Peace & Love!

[contrivedname!]

And BTW, I think the Nietzsche quote was a beautiful way of saying "Live in the moment and enjoy each experience as if it was new and unique."

 

; that was the idea of my liezi quote, the author (lieh yu'kou? or no?) goes on to equate his situation to one near the way or resembling the way and when someone tried to force him to diverge on a different way... well, those were the results (i think it said he chased his son out of town or something like that).

 

i will relate this to the zhuangzi story :

 

"The ruler of the South Sea was called Light; the ruler of the middle sea, darkness; and the ruler of the middle kingdom, Primal Chaos. From time to time, light and darkness met one another in the kingdom of Primal Chaos, who made them welcome. Light and Darkness wanted to repay his kindness and said, "All humans have seven openings with which they see, hear, eat, and breathe, but Primal Chaos has none. Let us try to give him some." So every day they bored one hole, and on the seventh day, Primal Chaos died.

[Marblehead]

; that was the idea of my liezi quote, the author (lieh yu'kou? or no?) goes on to equate his situation to one near the way or resembling the way and when someone tried to force him to diverge on a different way... well, those were the results (i think it said he chased his son out of town or something like that).

 

i will relate this to the zhuangzi story :

 

"The ruler of the South Sea was called Light; the ruler of the middle sea, darkness; and the ruler of the middle kingdom, Primal Chaos. From time to time, light and darkness met one another in the kingdom of Primal Chaos, who made them welcome. Light and Darkness wanted to repay his kindness and said, "All humans have seven openings with which they see, hear, eat, and breathe, but Primal Chaos has none. Let us try to give him some." So every day they bored one hole, and on the seventh day, Primal Chaos died.

 

Yes, I understood the quote. Yes, I know Liezi but his work is not a part of my base, just Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu are.

 

Yep, I know that story well. A lesson on leaving things in their natural form. When we change things we kill them.

 

I guess one day I will have to read Liezi again because a lot of Taoists qoute him.

 

Peace & Love!

[Oleg Galkin]

What Friedrich Nietzsche philosophy tells us? Kill the God? Destroy morality? Well, it's not so difficult, isn't it? And many thousand people around the world are doing it every day. "Could it be possible! This old saint in the forest has not yet heard of it, that God is dead!". This quote should be a prologue to the apocalypse.