The challenges facing Modern Western Taoists

[Stigweard]

• Not enough English translations of Taoist texts
  
• Not being able to personally study with authentic teachers
  
• Taoist teachings being diluted by Western marketing
  
• Unqualified teachers attempting to teach Taoism
  
• Balancing Western life with Taoist studies
  
• Not having the money to travel to and pay for tuition
  

[Tao99]

• Not enough English translations of Taoist texts
  
• Not being able to personally study with authentic teachers
  
• Taoist teachings being diluted by Western marketing
  
• Unqualified teachers attempting to teach Taoism
  
• Balancing Western life with Taoist studies
  
• Not having the money to travel to and pay for tuition
  

 

Hi Stig, I think a good place to start is asking what does the West want in the 21st century. They have an ancient one God religion and so a "Taoist religion" won't hold much interest or be much needed in general.

 

So where does it fit in? Many people in the West don't consider themselves Hindus, or members of the Hindu religion, but they are yoga practitioners. They do it as a non-religious practice for health, fitness, and relaxation.

 

I think the same will be true for the Taoist practice. So it won't be about "Taoist religion" or "Taoist philosophy" and Taoist philosophers, but about "Taoist art" and Taoist practitioners. These will be the Taoists of the West.

 

In the same way it's all about "yoga" in the West (but not Hinduism), it will be about that "Taoist art" (but not Taoism), and for the same purposes. Now this Taoist art may include such Taoist things as Tai Chi, and still be a completely non-religious practice, yet go quite deep philosophically.

 

I'd say there are plenty of translations available and they are quite sufficient to learn the Taoist art. But it takes a lot of actual book reading. And reading these books is a lot like being able to study with an authentic teacher (Taoist masters). After all, if these Taoist masters were standing in front of you, would they say anything different? It's true you can't ask questions or get feedback, but they chose every word carefully, and we are lucky to learn via the words of these undisputed, authentic, Taoist masters. Anyway that's my take on it all.

Edited September 8, 2009 by Tao99

[Pax]

• No place to meet up with other Daoists to study/talk/meditate...
  

 

I've never even met a person who is a Taoist (that I'm aware of) and I live in a very diverse college town.

[findley]

hey Stig--

 

 

 

OH SHOOT !!!!

 

 

you're writing this because we need to apply for invitation to the summit???

 

hey, do you mind if I save these points I just made for my own paper???? :wacko:

 

ergg, I am contacting the organization, (thank for the contact information,) so hopefully I will get word on how to complete the application process myself-- in which case I may very well use just these points.

 

Let me know, ok?

Edited September 8, 2009 by findley

[Stigweard]

Hi Stig, I think a good place to start is asking what does the West want in the 21st century. They have an ancient one God religion and so a "Taoist religion" won't hold much interest or be much needed in general.

 

So where does it fit in? Many people in the West don't consider themselves Hindus, or members of the Hindu religion, but they are yoga practitioners. They do it as a non-religious practice for health, fitness, and relaxation.

 

I think the same will be true for the Taoist practice. So it won't be about "Taoist religion" or "Taoist philosophy" and Taoist philosophers, but about "Taoist art" and Taoist practitioners. These will be the Taoists of the West.

 

In the same way it's all about "yoga" in the West (but not Hinduism), it will be about that "Taoist art" (but not Taoism), and for the same purposes. Now this Taoist art may include such Taoist things as Tai Chi, and still be a completely non-religious practice, yet go quite deep philosophically.

 

I'd say there are plenty of translations available and they are quite sufficient to learn the Taoist art. But it takes a lot of actual book reading. And reading these books is a lot like being able to study with an authentic teacher (Taoist masters). After all, if these Taoist masters were standing in front of you, would they say anything different? It's true you can't ask questions or get feedback, but they chose every word carefully, and we are lucky to learn via the words of these undisputed, authentic, Taoist masters. Anyway that's my take on it all.

So if I was to paraphrase what you said into a short point it would be:

• Compatibility challenges between traditional Taoist and modern Western cultures
  

 

• No place to meet up with other Daoists to study/talk/meditate...
  

I've never even met a person who is a Taoist (that I'm aware of) and I live in a very diverse college town.

Nice point

 

hey Stig--

OH SHOOT !!!!

you're writing this because we need to apply for invitation to the summit???

 

hey, do you mind if I save these points I just made for my own paper???? :wacko:

 

ergg, I am contacting the organization, (thank for the contact information,) so hopefully I will get word on how to complete the application process myself-- in which case I may very well use just these points.

 

Let me know, ok?

It would be probably best we do not overlap my friend

[innerspace_cadet]

1. Bad translations of Taoist texts by people who have no knowledge of the original Chinese.

2. Spiritual salesmen like Wayne Dyer who see Taoism as a craze they can cash in on and therefore mislead people about what Taoism really involves.

3. A preponderance of people who see Taoism as simply a self help therapy and fill up the bookshelves at Barnes and Noble with self help books that are of no or little help at all. Buddhism encounters this very same problem.

4. Being raised in a cultural mindset that sees opposites as being utterly separate.

[Ya Mu]

1. Bad translations of Taoist texts by people who have no knowledge of the original Chinese.

2. Spiritual salesmen like Wayne Dyer who see Taoism as a craze they can cash in on and therefore mislead people about what Taoism really involves.

3. A preponderance of people who see Taoism as simply a self help therapy and fill up the bookshelves at Barnes and Noble with self help books that are of no or little help at all. Buddhism encounters this very same problem.

4. Being raised in a cultural mindset that sees opposites as being utterly separate.

 

Good points!

 

I find that the majority of people in the west think that Taoism is an entirely different thing than it is. The real thing can be right in front of them but most people seem to like going for phenomena teachings and new-age chakra stuff (as long as it has the word "chakra" in it they go for it whether it has any meaning or not). Very difficult to find serious students.

[宁]

Challenges?...

You mean opportunities...

[Wayfarer64]

My most frequent problem has been... NOT being able to find SILENCE! I have experienced so little actual quetude - and I have saught it often... when all I could hear were the sounds of nature and NO MOTORS!!!

 

The wind in far off trees is what I long to hear again...

[findley]

Hmmm, I may be able to help a bit, afterall, Stigweard. I have something else in mind.

 

First, how many of you are spitting out these opinions, with your feet, (maybe at least one,) planted onto the TTC? -none?

 

You can read the Tao Te Ching. In multiple, multiple translations. This is all you have needed all along. (the way is simple, yet people prefer devious path-ways.)

 

The secret is in that book.

 

How about: the biggest 'challenge' facing 'western' taoists, are 'eastern' traditions, and 'lineages', (dare I say, 'culture'?)

 

Tao supercedes these things; such things belittle tao. When there is a 'real' Taoist backed-up and certified by some 'lineage', then doesnt that create the 'fake' taoist dynamic? Doesnt it create the idea, that you cannot be a taoist on your own, without the help of some 'master' who has personally recieved spiritual gifts and tutelage from some other ascended master?

 

Thats all fuckign bullshit, and THAT is the biggest obstacle to so-called 'western' taoism, because it creates a means by which we lose confidence in our capacity to discover Tao for ourselves. as individuals.

 

anyways, I would probably use these points, (amongst a few others, I am sure ) in a paper with this sort of theme.

 

be sure to utilize the philsoophy of the tao Te Ching, dude. (tehhhh )

 

 

I mean, come one. Tao is noisy. if you think you need silence to find it, you're lost. =p

again, no one ever reads the Tao te Ching.

 

maybe shoot for chuang tzu for help. he has one passage, where he calls a pile of dogshit 'tao'. it was a good point...

[DalTheJigsaw123]

• Not enough English translations of Taoist texts
  
• Not being able to personally study with authentic teachers
  
• Taoist teachings being diluted by Western marketing
  
• Unqualified teachers attempting to teach Taoism
  
• Balancing Western life with Taoist studies
  
• Not having the money to travel to and pay for tuition
  

 

Great questions to bring up. I personally believe we should all come together and try to help one another.