What is the BIGGEST challenge for Modern Western Taoists?

[Stigweard]

This poll is being conducted for the upcoming 1st International Summit on Laozi and Daoist Culture, November 5-7, Beijing, China. Please complete and discuss.

 

[Gerard]

None on that list:

 

1. Clean air

2. Good food

3. Pure water

4. Mountains

5. Too many modern distractions

 

 

Edited:

 

Oops I forgot to vote:

 

Balancing Western lifestyle with spiritual/philosophical studies.

 

 

Sorry.

Edited September 9, 2009 by durkhrod chogori

[everseeking]

None on that list:

 

1. Clean air

2. Good food

3. Pure water

4. No mountains

5. Too many modern distractions

 

 

 

 

So True!! I did vote anyway though..

[Marblehead]

I voted "No place to meet ..."

 

It is amazing what can be accomplished when like-minded people get together for discussions.

 

Happy Trails!

[lifeforce]

I voted 'unqualified teachers...' There are waaaaaay too many fake/phony/learned from a book types out there.

[CarsonZi]

I didn't vote due to my pick not being on the list. My pick (which would not be Taoist specific and would apply to any religion) is: "Dropping the need to label and define Life/experiences according to one's tradition". I'm pretty sure this could be considered the biggest obstacle for most on ANY spiritual path. Just my opinion.

 

Love,

Carson

[Pax]

I would dearly love to have a place like the local Buddhist meditation center to meet, meditate, and study with other Daoists. A place where a novice like myself could receive basic authentic instruction...it's difficult to sift through the plethora of new age/pop culture material out there when you're so new.

[Encephalon]

I would dearly love to have a place like the local Buddhist meditation center to meet, meditate, and study with other Daoists. A place where a novice like myself could receive basic authentic instruction...it's difficult to sift through the plethora of new age/pop culture material out there when you're so new.

 

BINGO! Pax nails it. There are plenty of Buddhist centers throughout the US where basic instruction and guidance are available for next to nothing, and participating in a the "sangha" (buddhist community) is considered essential for spiritual development.

 

Even in Los Angeles and San Francisco, the two main ports of entry for Easterners who started coming to North America back in the 60s, the Taoist centers that are available are limited compared with the Buddhist centers. Granted, East//West dialogue has been more robust and more lengthy with Buddhism, so it's plausible to imagine some point in the future where Taoism catches up. But even in LA, chi kung and Chinese martial arts study is not inexpensive. Neither is TCM. I happened upon nei kung instruction by accident, and it served me so well I that I can never adequately express my gratitude, but I did get myself into a pretty severe bind with some chi flow obstructions that caused a few problems.

 

If I had access to proper Microcosmic Orbit instruction I would've sailed past the problems I incurred. As it turns out, I got incredibly helpful advice in this forum by http://www.alchemicaltaoism.com/

I also created some confusion for myself by reading a variety of works by different authors that ultimately conflicted. Frantzis, Chia, Jwing ming, Waysun Liao, Clyman... the list goes on.

 

I know this is reductionistic, but Deng Ming-Dao is my top choice for getting the spirit of Taoism from informal study.

[Ya Mu]

I voted "Not being able to personally study with authentic teachers" but as I said in your other thread the biggest problem is the seekers themselves being attracted to new age phenomena and many thinking if you are not Chinese you don't know anything about Taoism. Big opportunity and following for Chinese men in business suits; this is addressed by your other option "Unqualified teachers attempting to teach Taoism" so I also vote for that one.

[Stigweard]

Thanks for all your thoughtful comments. Part of my attendance at the "International Summit on Laozi and Daoist Culture" is to write an academic paper and I will be using the results of this poll. The paper will be about the challenges we Western Taoists have and this is an opportunity to deliver a message to the contemporary luminaries of Taoism to help us have better access to Taoist teachings here in the west.

 

I have also started this poll on Facebook:

http://apps.facebook.com/opinionpolls/inde...?pid=1252376482

 

If you can publish/share this poll with your friends over there I would be very much appreciated.

[Pietro]

not to scramble the results,

I suppose if you voted on facebook you should not vote here.

 

Correct?

 

And if you did you should probably PM Stig with your vote so he can fix the results before presenting them

[Stigweard]

not to scramble the results,

I suppose if you voted on facebook you should not vote here.

 

Correct?

 

And if you did you should probably PM Stig with your vote so he can fix the results before presenting them

Yup cheers for that Pietro

[Stigweard]

Bump ... need to get at least 50 votes...

[Pietro]

Bump ... need to get at least 50 votes...

 

What about the answer:

not enough gods/demons around

 

or

 

ghosts over here just do not want to get married

 

Those are problems

[Stigweard]

What about the answer:

not enough gods/demons around

 

or

 

ghosts over here just do not want to get married

 

Those are problems

[Creation]

I think that the question "What you are trying to get out of Taoism?" is the principal determinant of how you will answer this question. For me, a path to obtain health on all levels of my being. (Obvious questions: What is health? What is my being? But that is the best one sentence answer I could come up with.)

 

I think "Not having the money to travel to and pay for tuition" is a specialization of "Not being able to personally study with authentic teachers" and so any votes the former gets should go to the latter. It's what I voted for.

 

"Unqualified teachers attempting to teach Taoism" and "Taoist teachings being diluted by Western marketing" are also very similar, the unqualified teachers one being more general because a "teacher" might have the best intentions but be unqualified, while someone who is primarily trying to make a buck is definitely unqualified due to wrong intentions. This is also a big issue. How does one determine who/what is authentic with so many rascals out there?

 

But if you are not looking to dive into the core of your being and become a complete person, neither issue it is as pressing.

[Stigweard]

I think that the question "What you are trying to get out of Taoism?" is the principal determinant of how you will answer this question. For me, a path to obtain health on all levels of my being. (Obvious questions: What is health? What is my being? But that is the best one sentence answer I could come up with.)

 

I think "Not having the money to travel to and pay for tuition" is a specialization of "Not being able to personally study with authentic teachers" and so any votes the former gets should go to the latter. It's what I voted for.

 

"Unqualified teachers attempting to teach Taoism" and "Taoist teachings being diluted by Western marketing" are also very similar, the unqualified teachers one being more general because a "teacher" might have the best intentions but be unqualified, while someone who is primarily trying to make a buck is definitely unqualified due to wrong intentions. This is also a big issue. How does one determine who/what is authentic with so many rascals out there?

 

But if you are not looking to dive into the core of your being and become a complete person, neither issue it is as pressing.

Excellent points raised Creation.

[Stigweard]

Bumpity bump

[Bum Grasshopper]

I didn't vote due to my pick not being on the list. My pick (which would not be Taoist specific and would apply to any religion) is: "Dropping the need to label and define Life/experiences according to one's tradition". I'm pretty sure this could be considered the biggest obstacle for most on ANY spiritual path. Just my opinion.

 

Love,

Carson

 

 

I would translate that to:

 

Balancing Western lifestyle with spiritual/philosophical studies

[Stigweard]

It would seem I have learned something new today The recent poll links I have been providing have been to the results page and not the voting page LOL ...This should be better if you wish to take part of this poll:

 

http://www.facebook.com/pages/TaoWizard/94...ewas=1138890192

[Nanashi]

I can understand the concerns over teachers of the Tao, but I see the challenge more with compatibility than balance in the West, where the only culture is that of profit and consumerism. Present company excluded, of course.

[Baguakid]

I would say my biggest two are:

 

Not having the money to travel to and pay for tuition

Not being able to personally study with authentic teachers

 

I've been searching out quality qigong (I consider Qigong to be a major part of Taoist life) for nearly 20 years. Perhaps it's been my luck of the draw but the number of quality teachers I have found can be counted on one hand and that's not using all my fingers.

 

After finding a teacher with the goods the problems are usually the following.

 

1. They charge so much that they're reserved for only the rich.

2. They talk in circles and think as masters they should be as difficult as possible and speak in esoteric language so the student couldn't possibly understand (oh, I clicked my heals together twice and pulled my right ear while the moon was full... you didn't get that???)

 

As time passes I become more and more sad and weary trying to find a good teacher.

Edited September 10, 2009 by Baguakid

[Stigweard]

Only a few more votes ... nearly there

[Ya Mu]

..

I've been searching out quality qigong (I consider Qigong to be a major part of Taoist life) for nearly 20 years. Perhaps it's been my luck of the draw but the number of quality teachers I have found can be counted on one hand and that's not using all my fingers.

...

As time passes I become more and more sad and weary trying to find a good teacher.

Agreed. Some seem to think there is a qigong master on every corner. I have found many good qigong practitioners and many good qigong doctors but only one qigong master. I guess it depends on one's definition of the word "master".

[exorcist_1699]

The biggest challenge for the Western Taoists is that they can't read the original Chinese Taoist writings directly , and therefore have to rely on those misinterpretations from the pseudo-masters , whom you can easily find everywhere .

 

In the history of Chinese Buddhism, we have masters like Kumārajīva( 鳩摩羅什 ) and Xuanzang (玄奘),

who can master several foreign languages like swallowing several pieces of cakes , yet such kinds of religious cum linguistic geniuses seem not appearing in our times?

 

From the orthodox Taoist standpoint, any roads that can't lead to immortality , both physical and spiritual ( it seems Taoism is the only philosophy/religion claim physical ,everlasting life ) , are trivial or even evil . And, such a main road is clearly said to be not many, but only one : the road of Kan and Li ( Intercourse of water and Fire) . Expressed it in modern Western terms : incapable of solving the alienation between the body and the mind, hardly can we attain forever life.

 

Perplexed by the magnificent achievement of science , which claims everlasting life impossible ,Western Taoists either claim Taoism natural or scientific , so hardly can you find a guy/ lady who has an insight and resolve that free himself / herself from succumbing to the altar of Science .

Edited September 11, 2009 by exorcist_1699