Qi Dao - Lama Somananda Tantrapa

[三江源]

 

 

So if you want your posts to be more meaningful to me and to others (I assume) then:

 

1) Consider giving actual opinions - which usually start with "I" (rather than "He" or "She") - eg. "I don't like Mantak's system"...

 

2) Qualify your judgements - "After 18 years practising such and such I find no value in Teacher X's work"

 

This way not only would this be a kinder place for people of all levels of experience to come to and share, but your posts would also really help and contribute to the discussion, rather than just being 'noise' devoid of any value.

 

^^^^^^^^ I SEE A FORUM STICKY HERE ^^^^^^^^

[Apech]

Just re-read this whole thread - well scanned - it because I thought I had lost the plot.

 

Does anyone know why he calls himself a Lama? What's the basis for this. I don't care that much - I would just like to know.

[VCraigP]

I like to go to a life-drawing class sometimes... The teacher walks around and comments on our work... Sometimes she comes over and tells me 'that's really good'... sometimes she says 'that looks terrible' - she's very direct which is fine.

 

What makes her judgement of value to me is that she can demonstrate her expertise... sometimes when she sees a mistake, she draws a little sketch in seconds that looks better than the sketch I made in 15 minutes, explaining what I had done incorrectly.

 

So when she gives her judgement it is information rich because she demonstrates a level of expertise, experience and refinement much greater than my own in this particular field.

 

I don't know your level of expertise in this field... the people you denounce all have a lot of expertise - whether you or I subscribe to their methods or not. So that's what I mean - you are yet to demonstrate the value of your judgement... you may well be more experienced than all of these people put together, but I haven't seen evidence for that.

 

Another thing... an opinion is not a judgement... an opinion is more about you than it is about what you're giving an opinion on. Sometimes I go around the life-drawing class and look at what the others have produced... I see a very accurate, technical drawing of the model, everything looks correct, but I say 'I don't like it'... 'I prefer that one' - pointing to a looser drawing that in a few elegant lines describes the the model. This opinion gives you more information about my tastes in drawing than on the aptitude of the drawers...

 

So if you want your posts to be more meaningful to me and to others (I assume) then:

 

1) Consider giving actual opinions - which usually start with "I" (rather than "He" or "She") - eg. "I don't like Mantak's system"...

 

2) Qualify your judgements - "After 18 years practising such and such I find no value in Teacher X's work"

 

This way not only would this be a kinder place for people of all levels of experience to come to and share, but your posts would also really help and contribute to the discussion, rather than just being 'noise' devoid of any value.

Freeform

 

thanks for the clarity of this.

 

In the spirit of your comments.

 

I personally have the opinion that the Lama title used by this gentleman is troubling. It is troubling to me because I can see no explanation for why he uses it and from whom the title was bestowed. While I believe that his knowledge of Qi Dao and family based systems with other names is likely quite significant and valuable, it is my opinion that the use of the title Lama is troubling to me and others. Without another explanation it appears to be self appointed for the purpose of marketing. Such labels are not important to me, but the Motive for using such a label is a concern. This concern I would likely set aside readily with the least bit of explanation.

 

Thats where I'm coming from. Others opinions and concerns may well vary.

 

Craig

[freeform]

 

Thats where I'm coming from. Others opinions and concerns may well vary.

 

 

Craig,

 

That was less directed at you and more at Orb, I accept why you're troubled

 

I was more concerned with stuff like: "I don't a problem bashing the fake lamas. Actually I think they need to be laughed at until they quit - because they are fake gurus in my opinion." And then 'bashing' Mantak, Winn, Frantzis, Chunyi Lin etc... although kinda funny, coming from someone who we know little about it's less than constructive.

 

I tried to find a post that Lama Tantrapa wrote ages ago explaining his title - I didn't manage to I'm afraid. The lineage came from his grandfather, that's all I remember. Of course using 'Lama' is at least in some way a marketing exercise... whether it's wrong or right, I don't know... I scanned the book and read some of Tantrapa's writing on his site and I found it worthwhile - not for me at this time, but seems sound.

 

[Apech]

Craig,

 

That was less directed at you and more at Orb, I accept why you're troubled

 

I was more concerned with stuff like: "I don't a problem bashing the fake lamas. Actually I think they need to be laughed at until they quit - because they are fake gurus in my opinion." And then 'bashing' Mantak, Winn, Frantzis, Chunyi Lin etc... although kinda funny, coming from someone who we know little about it's less than constructive.

 

I tried to find a post that Lama Tantrapa wrote ages ago explaining his title - I didn't manage to I'm afraid. The lineage came from his grandfather, that's all I remember. Of course using 'Lama' is at least in some way a marketing exercise... whether it's wrong or right, I don't know... I scanned the book and read some of Tantrapa's writing on his site and I found it worthwhile - not for me at this time, but seems sound.

 

 

Hi Freeform,

 

Here's the link I posted above again to the thread about qi dao

 

Qi Dao

 

If you follow it you will find that I asked him about his 27 generational lineage then. I want to stress that he seems a pleasant charming person and may well know a lot but I have to say he may have strayed into the imaginative marketing trap.

 

Cheers

 

A.

[Mal]

hehe I saw you in that thread we had the same idea Quote extracted

 

I am glad you found a way to peruse my book for free using Google book search. Unlike most of the contemporary authors, who tend to tease you by giving access to just a few pages, I made the entire text available for those of you who are sincerely interested in Qi Dao. I have nothing to hide, at least, at the basic level, which my book covers quite thoroughly. As to the question from apepch7, I believe I shared enough information about my lineage in this book.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Hi Freeform,

 

Here's the link I posted above again to the thread about qi dao

 

Qi Dao

 

If you follow it you will find that I asked him about his 27 generational lineage then. I want to stress that he seems a pleasant charming person and may well know a lot but I have to say he may have strayed into the imaginative marketing trap.

 

Cheers

 

A.

 

On the topic of lineages in general, he says this in the thread:

 

I know that most of the lineage holders of Qi Dao (as probably many other styles) gleaned from various disciplines and experienced many influences that only enriched the art and contributed to its evolution.

 

And I actually find it really interesting because, once you inherit a lineage and become the head teacher for that generation, you can pretty much do what you want with it- teach the old stuff, teach other stuff you found helpful, scrap it all and teach it in new ways however you want.

 

But there is also this idea that if you are part of a lineage you must be teaching the stuff you were taught how you were taught, even though the whole reason that lineage existed and came about is because someone had the idea to do things differently.

 

So in that case, by NOT changing it up, you aren't contributing to the survivability of the lineage (going for both spirituality and martial arts I guess).

 

But of course when it comes to marketing (and charging money), it makes the whole thing sound very suspicious. It means that you can do pretty much whatever you want but just be like, "oh well since I'm the lineage inheritor I can fit it to whatever I want."

 

So.... I dunno, it's a complicated issue

 

Is he a real Lama? Does he consider himself to be of equal standing to a Lama? Was it given to him by someone else, or did he just create it himself? Is it real, or a marketing ploy?

 

Many questions.

[Blue Dragon]

 

I tried to find a post that Lama Tantrapa wrote ages ago explaining his title - I didn't manage to I'm afraid. The lineage came from his grandfather, that's all I remember. Of course using 'Lama' is at least in some way a marketing exercise... whether it's wrong or right, I don't know... I scanned the book and read some of Tantrapa's writing on his site and I found it worthwhile - not for me at this time, but seems sound.

 

 

He talks of ordination as a monk/lama but no specific details. In one of the links below, he says he is referred to an Rinpoche by his students. I also see the term Tulku used to refer to him many places. If my memory serves me right, I don't remember reading anything specific to his lineage associated with Lamaism in his book.

 

I saw this here:

 

Lama Somananda Tantrapa is the holder of the lineage of Qi Dao that has been fostered in his clan for 27 generations since 1224 AD. He has over 30 years of experience in Qi Dao and other internal martial arts. He was primarily trained by his Grandfather who was the last Grandmaster of this style of Tibetan Shamanic Qigong. In addition to being recognized as an incarnate Bön lama, ordained as a Buddhist monk and initiated into Subud spiritual brotherhood, he holds a degree in Cultural Anthropology and certifications in Qigong, Hypnosis and NLP.

 

And here:

 

Lama Somananda Tantrapa is the 27th lineage holder of Qi Dao, also known as Tibetan Shamanic Qigong. He has been practicing Meditation, Qigong, Dream Yoga and Internal Martial Arts for over thirty years, primarily trained by his Grandfather who was the paragon of the Russian Martial Arts and Qi Dao Grand Master. Lama Tantrapa was ordained as a Buddhist monk in three different orders and initiated into Subud spiritual brotherhood. His background is complex enough to include serving in the Soviet Army’s Special Forces, being kidnapped in the Ukraine and surviving several near-death experiences. In addition to being a Tibetan lama, he studied with a number of Kung-fu and Qigong masters, great teachers of Yoga and Martial Arts, as well as Native American, Hawaiian and Siberian Shamans.

 

Buddhist monk in three orders, Bon Lama, Tulku ... well never mind but some of these terms are very technical

Edited March 23, 2010 by Blue Dragon

[VCraigP]

He talks of ordination as a monk/lama but no specific details. In one of the links below, he says he is referred to an Rinpoche by his students. I also see the term Tulku used to refer to him many places. If my memory serves me right, I don't remember reading anything specific to his lineage associated with Lamaism in his book.

 

I saw this here:

 

 

 

And here:

 

 

 

Buddhist monk in three orders, Bon Lama, Tulku ... well never mind but some of these terms are very technical

 

 

OK, thanks. That's actually good enough for me. I wasn't able to turn this up myself.

 

Blue dragon was this gleaned from his book or his website?

 

thanks

 

Craig

[KoHsuan]

Dear bums, stop asking him any tricky questions.. many people have tried to do so for years.. about Lama, Tulku, his secret Stalin bodyguard grandfather etc...

 

he never ever replied

 

I even doubt about his russian origin

[soaring crane]

It's difficult for me to get riled up over lineages, and can even tolerate someone making one up for himself. It doesn't affect the quality of their teachings for better or worse. Virtually every text in the Taoist Canon has been attributed falsely to one great master or another, some real, some not. On a cosmic scale, does it change anything?

 

But, I actually read the Qi Dao book online, the parts that matter, and didn't see anything terribly unique in it. So, to that end, for me personally, the whole thing is just a detour. I might go listen to some of the interviews, though, if I get a chance.

 

I wonder if that other great shamanic Russian, Taomeow, knows the Lama? She seems to know more about Shamanism than he does.

 

(Also, I got a bit of a jolt when I read: "Rinpoche holds a degree in Cultural Anthropology and certifications in Qigong, Hypnosis and NLP" - that would put the kibosh on any thoughts of joining his Academy)

Edited March 31, 2010 by soaring crane

[fizix]

Hypnosis or NLP on someone's resume shouldn't serve as a deterrent to learn from someone - these systems are used to help people; nlp/self-hypnosis is very powerful, but a shortcut through real self-discovery, living like a robot.

[Apech]

Hypnosis or NLP on someone's resume shouldn't serve as a deterrent to learn from someone - these systems are used to help people; nlp/self-hypnosis is very powerful, but a shortcut through real self-discovery, living like a robot.

 

But why bother with it if you are the inheritor of a 27 generation lineage of real shamanism?

 

Just asking....

[RyanO]

But why bother with it if you are the inheritor of a 27 generation lineage of real shamanism?

 

Just asking....

 

[soaring crane]

[Apech]

I agree with soaring crane ... and my question was a genuine one, I would really like to know why someone bothers with that modern stuff if they have real ancient knowledge. Is it a validation of hypnosis and NLP? Or what. But as I have said before I really have nothing against anyone who teaches anything that helps people in some way - it is a good thing to do.

 

Cheers.

 

John

[Lama Tantrapa]

I would really like to know why someone bothers with that modern stuff if they have real ancient knowledge. Is it a validation of hypnosis and NLP? Or what. But as I have said before I really have nothing against anyone who teaches anything that helps people in some way - it is a good thing to do.

 

Cheers.

 

John

 

 

I appreciate your curiocity, @apepch7. As you aptly pointed out, having real ancient knowledge may be more than enough to keep some people from "bothering" with any modern practices. However, from the point of view of the current lineage holder, I have to say that, as far as I am concerned, every previous holder of the lineage contributed to our art in one way or another. My contribution may be in the way I manage to translate and explain the art of Qi Dao in the terms understandable to educated contemporaries. My choice of NLP and Hypnosis was based on the numerous similarities between some aspects of these disciplines and the practice of Dream Yoga that form the spiritual foundation of Tibetan Shamanic Qigong. Both NLP and Hypnosis offer some practical approaches that are very effective and free of religious undertones. As you may have read in my book, Once I received religious asylum in the United States, I found myself in a relative spiritual vacuum in this country, so I decided to explore the fields where my knowledge would be appreciated and helpful to the extent I manage to refrain from converting people into Bon Shamanism, which is not within my interests at all. Anyone thinking that a Shaman possessing ancient knowledge should do nothing else but shamanize would be giving the Shaman too little room for growth and development. I cannot say for other Shamans, but the knowledge I possess is alive today exactly because it was not frozen into an unchangeable dogma but continuously evolved and adopted to the needs of the people practicing this living art.

 

Namaste,

 

Lama Tantrapa

Edited May 6, 2010 by Lama Tantrapa

[Lama Tantrapa]

Dear bums, stop asking him any tricky questions.. many people have tried to do so for years.. about Lama, Tulku, his secret Stalin bodyguard grandfather etc...

 

he never ever replied

 

I even doubt about his russian origin

 

I appreciate your inquisitive mind and wish to assure that I am for real. I am, indeed, half-Russian, half-Ukrainian, born and raised in the former Soviet Union. Trained under my grandfather, who was forced by the KGB to work as a trainer of Stalin's bodyguards and other spooks. I also studied with a number of other teachers, including several fine martial artists, Qigong masters, healers and Tibetan lamas. The reason I studied with the lamas was because Lama Padmayev had actually singled me out through the process of divination as a reincarnation of another lama, hence the title Tulku. For almost five years, I was a member of a secret society called White Lotus, which I left after the head teacher Vladimir Skubaev blinded me. I received official ordinations after the collapse of the Communist regime and spent several years apprenticing to a well-known Japanese monk Junsei Terasawa, who ordained me in his Buddhist order. I also received an ordination in the Thai tradition of Buddhism, but decided to stay outside of the organized religion for the time being. Nevertheless, the United States Department of Homeland Security has conducted a thorough investigation and granted me religious asylum on the basis of persecution that I had experienced in my country (I got kidnapped, arrested for my statements against the war in Chechnya, the temple we had built got blown up with grenades, etc.). If this is not enough information to help you understand better who I am, feel free to email me at [email protected], and I will be happy to share more.

 

Namaste,

 

Lama Tantrapa

Edited May 6, 2010 by Lama Tantrapa

[soaring crane]

Thank you for the very respectful and commendable replies!

[Apech]

Thank you for the very respectful and commendable replies!

 

Seconded - thanks for the replies.

[Ya Mu]

I appreciate your quriocity, @apepch7. As you aptly pointed out, having real ancient knowledge may be more than enough to keep some people from "bothering" with any modern practices. However, from the point of view of the current lineage holder, I have to say that, as far as I am concerned, every previous holder of the lineage contributed to our art in one way or another. My contribution may be in the way I manage to translate and explain the art of Qi Dao in the terms understandable to educated contemporaries. My choice of NLP and Hypnosis was based on the numerous similarities between some aspects of these disciplines and the practice of Dream Yoga that form the spiritual foundation of Tibetan Shamanic Qigong. Both NLP and Hypnosis offer some practical approaches that are very effective and free of religious undertones. As you may have read in my book, Once I received religious asylum in the United States, I found myself in a relative spiritual vacuum in this country, so I decided to explore the fields where my knowledge would be appreciated and helpful to the extent I manage to refrain from converting people into Bon Shamanism, which is not within my interests at all. Anyone thinking that a Shaman possessing ancient knowledge should do nothing else but shamanize would be giving the Shaman too little room for growth and development. I cannot say for other Shamans, but the knowledge I possess is alive today exactly because it was not frozen into an unchangeable dogma but continuously evolved and adopted to the needs of the people practicing this living art.

 

Namaste,

 

Lama Tantrapa

I agree with several points you make. Integrating ancient practices with modern is a grand thing. I have a couple of senior students who integrate medical qigong with hypnosis and it helps a lot of people. Also your point about adding to teachings. It is every teachers grandest hope that their students will surpass them.

[KoHsuan]

The reason I studied with the lamas was because Lama Padmayev had actually singled me out through the process of divination as a reincarnation of another lama, hence the title Tulku.

 

 

Lama Tantrapa

 

 

Dear Lama Tantrapa, could you tell more about Lama Padmayev ( do you mean Piotr Badmaev)?

[Lama Tantrapa]

Dear Lama Tantrapa, could you tell more about Lama Padmayev ( do you mean Piotr Badmaev)?

 

One of the lamas who ordained me was Jigme Padmayev Rinpoche. He is not the same person as Piotr Badmayev, another well-known lama from Russia.

 

Now, on another note, I have a question for you, my dear Tao Bums. Do you think we need a TV show dedicated to Tai Chi, Qigong and the Taoist philosophy underlying the Energy Arts? I personally believe it is time to create a popular media presence that will boost people's awareness of these arts and transform their lives. That is why I am auditioning for an opportunity to host The Flow Show on Oprah Winfrey's Network. Please go to http://myown.oprah.com/audition/index.html?request=search&q=Lama%20Tantrapa to watch the introductory video and cast your vote today!

 

Who would you like to see on that show, once it started? Would appearing on that show boost your standing as a Taoist expert?

[evZENy]

Do you think we need a TV show dedicated to Tai Chi, Qigong and the Taoist philosophy underlying the Energy Arts?

....

Would appearing on that show boost your standing as a Taoist expert?

 

Sure we do! There are so many new TM, Copy Righted etc. styles and teachings... And so many masters who start a book with "Welcome to my world of Qi/Chi" - it is hard to keep track. So I think a show like that is long overdue!

Especially for any expert who needs a boost of his understanding of Tao (is this phrase with 2 or 3 oxymorons?)

And yes, Chopra as an Indian who recently denounced the importance of the Inidan roots of Yoga will be a good guest on a show about traditional Eastern ways of life.

 

Go ahead and do it!

"Therefore the Master acts without doing anything and teaches without saying anything." TTC, 2

 

Tashi Delek!