question about nonduality and sex

[Mal]

Uh...am I understanding this right? That I could be reborn as an animal, bug or amoeba and further more it's extremely difficult to gather enough "escape velocity" to be reborn as a human again?

Don't worry. What were you before your parents were born? (An oldie but a goodie.)

 

This is all a game...."Lila"....God's Play.......We are here to remember that we are Source and this is the Density for doing it. If you don't "Realize" in this lifetime you will have another chance . Worrying about running out of time is silly....time is an illusion...All is Now.

 

Exactly, plenty of chances, do your best and whatever happens just

[ralis]

 

I rub you wrong... don't I? Your soo effected Ralis.

 

The impetus for a Dinosaurs evolution is based upon past lives, the propulsion of karmas from past universes even. There is no beginning, nor a point of origin.

 

I wonder how much time you've given to studying your own mind through internalizing of awareness, i.e. meditation?

 

It's pointless to talk with you Ralis. I will NOT think like you... that'd be going backwards for me, meaning literally linearly devolving.

 

Don't you have some money to win by being slick and sly and knowing how to lie? Mr. Poker?

Don't be so hard on yourself, let the judgement go! Be light hearted about the whole affair! You have endless time!! Let it play and learn how to play happily!

Ralis, Ralis, Ralis,

 

I'm not using non-linear within the mathematical schematic. That's not my context at all. Do you read objectively? The meaning is found through context.

 

I mean non-linear as in... a,b,c,d,e...z. As in, you can find z through any letter anywhere in the alphabet. Show me d and I'll show you how it connects to u as well as i.

 

Every point of experience originates based upon every other point of experience. Can you handle that? Or is that too loooooost in spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace?? Ahhhh, the endless sphere!

 

I mean non-linear as in, the primary condition of a possible experience may be enlodged in the subconscious of any being, but until the secondary condition arises in the environment, that experience will not happen, so thus another experience will happen who's causes may be newer from a linear standpoint. This also goes for past or future lives. It's actually all explained quite well by the Buddha in the Pali Canon. Thus spiritual progress is always non-linear as we are way too complex for that. Though the Buddhas delineation of the process is genius, he also shows by contradicting himself many times that he is not subjecting everyone to a linear presumption of the space/time continuum. Each point is based on every other point, thus infinite reference of infinite finites. So, there is still unique points, each referencing infinitude differently through it's seeming finitude. Different people need different teachings at different times, or at the same time, or the same people at different times.

 

 

When you belittle others, is that your way of making yourself feel like a bigger more powerful Buddha? Some new master teacher? What about so called Buddhist compassion? Why not show it!

 

I have been a student of Namkai Norbu for decades and his discourses are clear and precise. Sorry, yours are not!

 

ralis

[Vajrahridaya]

 

I have been a student of Namkai Norbu for decades and his discourses are clear and precise.

ralis

 

That's good... then listen to him.

 

You should do the training course.

 

I have not felt an iota of your compassion or experience of Rigpa. Namkhai Norbu has sooooo many people that come to listen to him, but don't experience a flutter of anything other than an intellectual spark.

 

All I've seen is you trying to make me fit inside your box.

Edited September 15, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[JustARandomPanda]

To my amazement I discovered two different Buddhist groups that meet close to where I live! One is a Dzochen group that meets twice a month. The only thing is...they don't claim Norbal as their leader. Instead it's someone named Lama Surya Das. I have no idea who that is.

 

The second is a group that holds beginner meetings at a Yoga center on Sundays. Except they claim someone as the Karmapa as their leader? I don't know who that is either.

[Vajrahridaya]

To my amazement I discovered two different Buddhist groups that meet close to where I live! One is a Dzochen group that meets twice a month. The only thing is...they don't claim Norbal as their leader. Instead it's someone named Lama Surya Das. I have no idea who that is.

 

Lama Surya Das is a rich American Anglo who has political ties. He's nice enough. But, he's not who I would recommend to learn from. I suppose you could go just to be in a group?

 

The second is a group that holds beginner meetings at a Yoga center on Sundays. Except they claim someone as the Karmapa as their leader? I don't know who that is either.

 

Find out which Karmapa?

 

or...

[NeiChuan]

Mm well if its beneficial for your body usually its beneficial for your psyche aswell.. That in mind anything in that context is good for your overall vitality.

 

Good for body/mind = good for All I mean.

 

(Btw I just answered the original question lol sorry guys)

Edited September 15, 2009 by NeiChuan

[markern]

 

 

 

The impetus for a Dinosaurs evolution is based upon past lives, the propulsion of karmas from past universes even.

 

Who gives a shit. New age people love THINKING and SPECULATING about how to world functions th have meaning on an INTELECTUAL level. What they usualy fail to do is practice something that actualy gets them anywhere. When one is PRACTICING a MYSTICAL aproach that actualy gets you somewhere spending time on fluff to find intelectual meaning on that level is mostly a diversion. Its not what its about. With your elvel of practice you kind of are "allowed" to spend a shitload of time specualting about these things s you do get the actual job done but it is stil fluff and a very bad sign IMO that one is looking in the wrong places for the wrong things. I also would not at all acuse you of being new age in any way, more middle agges if anything, but I still think it is very unhealthy to find so much of ones meaning in unverifiable specualtion. Especially when it is held so very, very tightly.

Edited September 15, 2009 by markern

[Apech]

 

Find out which Karmapa?

 

or...

 

Serene and Vajra,

 

Top one visited UK recently but I missed him cos I was away - I think the lower one has Chinese affiliations. Does it matter? The controversy about the HH Karmapa 17 is best avoided. If the group is Karma Kagyu then they should supply good teachings on meditation and dharma in a way which allows you plenty of time to practice, study and make up your own mind without pressure - at least that is my experience. Best thing is to go to beginner class and see how it feels.

[ralis]

Who gives a shit. New age people love THINKING and SPECULATING about how to world functions th have meaning on an INTELECTUAL level. What they usualy fail to do is practice something that actualy gets them anywhere. When one is PRACTICING a MYSTICAL aproach that actualy gets you somewhere spending time on fluff to find intelectual meaning on that level is mostly a diversion. Its not what its about. With your elvel of practice you kind of are "allowed" to spend a shitload of time specualting about these things s you do get the actual job done but it is stil fluff and a very bad sign IMO that one is looking in the wrong places for the wrong things. I also would not at all acuse you of being new age in any way, more middle agges if anything, but I still think it is very unhealthy to find so much of ones meaning in unverifiable specualtion. Especially when it is held so very, very tightly.

 

Middle ages? Yes! I would also add Wilhelm Reich's term "little man". Also, Vajra seems more right wing religious Republican than one who lives a progressive ideology. This fits nicely with his authoritarian and conservative way of thinking.

 

ralis

Edited September 15, 2009 by ralis

[CarsonZi]

I came up with a new term for Vajra and his "type" which seem to be poking their heads out of their holes more then usual these days; Buddhamentalist....as in Fundamentalist Buddhist......Vajra reminds me of my Fundamentalist Evangelical Baptist Christian parents.....they claim to have an open mind, but are so tightly bound to their "belief system" that everything either has to "fit in their box" (frame of reference) or it is wrong. Ignorance is bliss!

 

Love,

Carson

Edited September 15, 2009 by CarsonZi

[Vajrahridaya]

Who gives a shit. New age people love THINKING and SPECULATING about how to world functions th have meaning on an INTELECTUAL level. What they usualy fail to do is practice something that actualy gets them anywhere. When one is PRACTICING a MYSTICAL aproach that actualy gets you somewhere spending time on fluff to find intelectual meaning on that level is mostly a diversion. Its not what its about. With your elvel of practice you kind of are "allowed" to spend a shitload of time specualting about these things s you do get the actual job done but it is stil fluff and a very bad sign IMO that one is looking in the wrong places for the wrong things. I also would not at all acuse you of being new age in any way, more middle agges if anything, but I still think it is very unhealthy to find so much of ones meaning in unverifiable specualtion. Especially when it is held so very, very tightly.

 

When you meditate deeply, you see things directly. I don't think about this stuff, it's just information in my files. I more just do my job and work on staying in a state of peace and meditative equipoise.

 

But, if you focus on one point deeply enough, it leads to every other point spontaneously. You have immense insight come to you faster than the speed of thought.

 

You might like to release your rigid projections a bit. There are many great masters in Vajrayana Buddhism, and your only seeing the surface. The metaphysics are a result of direct experience on a level that transcends, "sitting around and thinking about things, making up stories". As you seem to think.

 

Your deluding your view and distracting your presence.

 

Understanding karma and how it works, understanding non-origin and beginningless-ness is part of the realization. This level of information comes to one in a flash, like a book downloaded into your mind faster than the speed of light. Enlightenment does involve leaving no stone unturned. You read that the Buddha didn't answer this question from that person or this person. But if you read in other Suttas, he does answer the question to this or that other person. It's also not that he didn't know, it's that he knew when to disseminate the information and to who.

 

So... you relax and get some meditative experience, and study more, before you start telling people who have given intense and long hours of discipline to the cushion, what they are on about. Because you don't really know.

 

Start off with your vipassana and get some mastery over it. Get some Jhana experience under your belt. Travel into other realms... do things that you think are just fantasy, and then you'll see a deeper reality unravel.

 

 

I came up with a new term for myself and my "type" which seem to be poking our heads out of our holes more then usual these days; ignormentalist....as in Fundamental ignorance......I remind myself of my Fundamentalist Evangelical Baptist Christian parents.....who claim to have an open mind, but are so tightly bound to their "belief system" that everything either has to "fit in their box" (frame of reference) or it is wrong. Ignorance is bliss!

 

Love,

Carson

 

[Pero]

I have not felt an iota of your compassion or experience of Rigpa. Namkhai Norbu has sooooo many people that come to listen to him, but don't experience a flutter of anything other than an intellectual spark.

 

Sorry my friend, but here you are just wrong because there is no way for you to know this for sure. It's not easy for even someone like Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche to know this, if it is even possible (as he said many times that only you can know your own capacity), so how could you know?

[Vajrahridaya]

Serene and Vajra,

 

Top one visited UK recently but I missed him cos I was away - I think the lower one has Chinese affiliations. Does it matter? The controversy about the HH Karmapa 17 is best avoided. If the group is Karma Kagyu then they should supply good teachings on meditation and dharma in a way which allows you plenty of time to practice, study and make up your own mind without pressure - at least that is my experience. Best thing is to go to beginner class and see how it feels.

 

I almost visited the lower one when I lived in NYC. He did come to me and filled me with incredible bliss though and I had some interesting visions just laying in bed wishing I was there.

 

I don't think he has Chinese connections at all. I find him to be very deep and compassionate. He is also endorsed by the Dalai Lama. So, that's enough for me.

 

I think maybe the 16th Karmapa just split his mind stream in two and emanated as both. Both their intentions seem to be for benefit, so why not? Yes, I avoid the controversy.

 

Sereneblue,

 

I also agree with apepch7. If you go to the Karma Kagyu, you'll get some great and wonderful teachings! As well as methods for overcoming suffering.

 

Sorry my friend, but here you are just wrong because there is no way for you to know this for sure. It's not easy for even someone like Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche to know this, if it is even possible (as he said many times that only you can know your own capacity), so how could you know?

 

Because he has done nothing but attack me.

 

I'm not talking about some psychic power here.

 

Also, I don't think it's very hard for Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche to know this psychically. That's not my experience at all. But, I suppose it depends on how open one is to him directly.

 

p.s. But if your talking about how many people just get an intellectual flutter from hearing a talk from ChNNR. That's easy when you see how people just don't connect on a deep level. You can also hear in the way they talk, there's no inspiration.

 

You can also see how people are deeply connected to him, and you can read it in their gestures, the way they talk, their faces and their energy. You can see that they are truly inspired on an experiential level by ChNNR!

Edited September 15, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[Pero]

Because he has done nothing but attack me.

 

Hahah.

 

 

 

Also, I don't think it's very hard for Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche to know this psychically.

 

Well I seem to remember him saying that sometimes people ask him if they discovered the state of contemplation and that it's not so easy for him to answer. And then there are those stories about great practitioners walking around and nobody knows who they are, including masters, until they die and manifest rainbow body.

 

 

 

I also agree with apepch7. If you go to the Karma Kagyu, you'll get some great and wonderful teachings! As well as methods for overcoming suffering.

 

Well just don't go to Diamond Way.

 

p.s. But if your talking about how many people just get an intellectual flutter from hearing a talk from ChNNR. That's easy when you see how people just don't connect on a deep level. You can also hear in the way they talk, there's no inspiration.

 

Well maybe. But still you can't know from them having inspirational talks or not, that doesn't mean anything IMO. Because maybe that's just how they are.

Edited September 15, 2009 by Pero

[Vajrahridaya]

Well I seem to remember him saying that sometimes people ask him if they discovered the state of contemplation and that it's not so easy for him to answer. And then there are those stories about great practitioners walking around and nobody knows who they are, including masters, until they die and manifest rainbow body.

 

Yes, I understand that it's not easy to answer. But that doesn't mean he doesn't see. It's not easy to answer because a persons experience of Rigpa is personally nuanced. We are complex beings.

 

As far as hidden masters go. Indeed... I do agree that some Masters hide very well. But, these beings manifesting the Rainbow body are generally in Tibet, and they are not walking around all that many people, as I've heard most of these occurrences are happening in low populated areas?

 

I'm sure if you met one, and you looked into his eyes or did practice with that person, you would get an intuition of this persons level of inspiration and calm peace?

 

I think so at least. Most of these people were solitary practitioners... no? In Tibet, it's generally only monks who do group practice, not the lay Dzogchen practitioners who mostly do solitary practice?

 

I'm sure there are anomalies as there are in every situation.

 

Well maybe. But still you can't know from them having inspirational talks or not, that doesn't mean anything IMO. Because maybe that's just how they are.

 

Yes, I can agree.

 

You can't know definitely without being fully liberated.

 

One doesn't really know anything definitely unless one is a complete Buddha anyway.

 

I do think ChNNR's supernatural cognitive skills are quite open though.

[Pero]

p.s. But if your talking about how many people just get an intellectual flutter from hearing a talk from ChNNR. That's easy when you see how people just don't connect on a deep level. You can also hear in the way they talk, there's no inspiration.

 

You can also see how people are deeply connected to him, and you can read it in their gestures, the way they talk, their faces and their energy. You can see that they are truly inspired on an experiential level by ChNNR!

 

Maybe, but honestly this just sounds like the level of "atmosphere" or "vibrations" to me.

[Vajrahridaya]

Maybe, but honestly this just sounds like the level of "atmosphere" or "vibrations" to me.

 

Yes, could be entirely subjective.

[Pero]

I think one story was that a carpenter in a town achieved rainbow body and then one of Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche's uncles said how unfortunate it was that nobody knew that he was a great practitioner. Also in CatWoL it's said that you can't know if someone is a practitioner or not.

 

I'm sure if you met one, and you looked into his eyes or did practice with that person, you would get an intuition of this persons level of inspiration and calm peace?

 

Sure, but IMO if someone causes that in you it still means nothing with regards to the teachings. You could get these same kind of feelings from a lot of different people from different religions.

 

Anyway I have to get back to transcribing... I hope you're well.

[Vajrahridaya]

CatWoL

 

From a Cat on the Wol? Wait... what?

 

Ohhh... Crystal and the Way of Light. Of course.. yes no it's true, especially in inner alchemy practictioners (Tantrics). There are way's to hide attainment so that one doesn't stick out. There are ways to black out your auric field and hide your energy in strictly personal dimension. They teach these things in Vajrayana. I can't remember which book I read this in though... sorry.

 

 

Sure, but IMO if someone causes that in you it still means nothing with regards to the teachings. You could get these same kind of feelings from a lot of different people from different religions.

 

Oh, I don't doubt that. I attained great peace through Hinduism. I have also met some really spiritual Christians and Catholics who have a wonderful vibe and peace about them.

 

I was just talking about Ralis who has done nothing really other than criticize me without any real insight and without any real debate. Mostly just name calling and put downs. Pretty funny really, some of these people in here. Not all, but some.

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway I have to get back to transcribing... I hope you're well.

 

Thanks Pero,

 

You too! It's been a while. What are you transcribing?

[nectar]

Cool thread!

 

Awareness and where it is and how it works is very important... any sensitive person will be able to feel where your attention is when they're open during sex...

 

Try having sex with all your attention on thoughts - thoughts about performance, is she enjoying this, am I doing this right, what if I do this, when should I do that, I wish she would do x etc etc... Any time I've had sex in this mode, I've been profoundly unsatisfied and so has my partner...

 

Try having sex with your attention focused between your perineum and belly button, and allow the feeling to over-take you. It's like you're channelling an inner part of you that is seldom allowed out. For a man it's like letting the deep, primal part of ourselves take control... the sex is passionate, dominant, filled with primal emotional energies... The masculine is explosive, outwards centred - the passion is directed out at the partner... The feminine is receptive, implosive attention is inwardly directed... There is no thought, no holding back or second guessing... This can be very exhilarating and satisfying (temporarily) and can cause powerful explosive orgasms.

 

Then when your attention is heated, lubricated and flowing in the belly area bring it up to the heart area... Here it's more about love, connection and deep intimacy. It's slower, less fiery, less polarised and dominant... It's more about sensations, feelings and connection than 'action'. Awareness is 'simultaneous' both inside and outside... the physical act becomes just an expression of the loving connection between the two partners. There's less friction, less tension, but much more openness, vulnerability and intimacy... you're not building up to one huge climax like before but flowing freely up and down enjoying the bliss of connection...

 

Next is mind to mind sex - not something that can really be explained. It doesn't even need to have a physical element to it. It can be done over distance... Energy is between heart and above your head (where your hands would meet if you clasped them overhead)... It's much more subtle, but very much more powerful... I've only experienced this a couple of times...

 

Each of these ways is important and needs to be experienced... It can also be mixed and matched... if let's say the man is more open in the primal area and the woman in the heart - the man can ignite the fire and the woman can direct all the energy he's pouring out through her heart, helping the man open up his own heart and loving connection. Sex can and should be used for self discovery - it's a very powerful tool.

 

 

Thanking you for that - it is rare to find someone so adequately equipped with the the language required for this kind of harmonious union with Self and significant others

[Pero]

You too! It's been a while. What are you transcribing?

 

The Nyingthig Yangthig retreat. I'll be finished today or tomorrow for sure, but hopefully the coordinator won't kill me because I'm already past the deadline.

[Vajrahridaya]

The Nyingthig Yangthig retreat. I'll be finished today or tomorrow for sure, but hopefully the coordinator won't kill me because I'm already past the deadline.

 

Ah! What a blessings to be able to do though!

 

I love your quote by the way... on your signature line. It's very humbling.

Edited September 16, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[ralis]

 

I rub you wrong... don't I? Your soo effected Ralis.

 

The impetus for a Dinosaurs evolution is based upon past lives, the propulsion of karmas from past universes even. There is no beginning, nor a point of origin.

 

I wonder how much time you've given to studying your own mind through internalizing of awareness, i.e. meditation?

 

It's pointless to talk with you Ralis. I will NOT think like you... that'd be going backwards for me, meaning literally linearly devolving.

 

Don't you have some money to win by being slick and sly and knowing how to lie? Mr. Poker?

Don't be so hard on yourself, let the judgement go! Be light hearted about the whole affair! You have endless time!! Let it play and learn how to play happily!

Ralis, Ralis, Ralis,

 

I'm not using non-linear within the mathematical schematic. That's not my context at all. Do you read objectively? The meaning is found through context.

 

I mean non-linear as in... a,b,c,d,e...z. As in, you can find z through any letter anywhere in the alphabet. Show me d and I'll show you how it connects to u as well as i.

 

Every point of experience originates based upon every other point of experience. Can you handle that? Or is that too loooooost in spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace?? Ahhhh, the endless sphere!

 

I mean non-linear as in, the primary condition of a possible experience may be enlodged in the subconscious of any being, but until the secondary condition arises in the environment, that experience will not happen, so thus another experience will happen who's causes may be newer from a linear standpoint. This also goes for past or future lives. It's actually all explained quite well by the Buddha in the Pali Canon. Thus spiritual progress is always non-linear as we are way too complex for that. Though the Buddhas delineation of the process is genius, he also shows by contradicting himself many times that he is not subjecting everyone to a linear presumption of the space/time continuum. Each point is based on every other point, thus infinite reference of infinite finites. So, there is still unique points, each referencing infinitude differently through it's seeming finitude. Different people need different teachings at different times, or at the same time, or the same people at different times.

 

 

Vajraji,

 

Where did you come up with "enlodged"? That word does not exist. Yet, you assert the claim that I don't read your posts objectively. How can we have a reasonable discourse when the syntax of your writing is not well organized? Are you using contradictory terms in order to teach us something? Are you claiming enlightened Buddhahood for yourself and feel some need to preach?

 

If you expect me to read your posts objectively, then you must present factual evidence. Objectivity by it's very definition means presenting factual evidence while being unimpeded by emotion. Your arguments are based solely on assumption,innuendo and emotional reactivity.

 

Please rewrite the last paragraph!

 

ralis

Edited September 17, 2009 by ralis

[Vajrahridaya]

Vajraji,

 

Where did you come up with "enlodged"? That word does not exist.

 

 

 

Enlodged means stuck in, or having an emplacement there.

 

No, I'm not a fully liberated Buddha.

 

Thanks for being softer though. I felt better reading your post.

 

In Vajra brotherhood.

[mat black]

Really... the Buddhists say that one should practice like your hair is on fire. Because it's true, we never know what's in our personal karmic history until we really start meditating deeply. One of the blessings of getting a guide, or connecting to a matrix of enlightened lineage is that these beings will usher you after death. If you really connect on an experiential level and not just say, "hi".

Namo Amitabha Buddha. Namo Avalokiteshvara Bodhisattva. Namo Mahasthamaprapta Bodhisattva.