Taoism and alcohol

[Old Man Contradiction]

Yep, this subject may be a little off topic and there are many forums out there for it ha ha! My question in the beginning, & sorry to jump on your thread there though old man contradiction, was if anyone knew of any reported opiate use amongst chinese daoists, or if it was totally shunned. But i doubt there wold be much info aside from personal/anecdotal evidence so ill leave it be..anyways, yeah, re alcohol - i think Chen Man Ching, the great taiji master who taught in the west in the 1960s/70s liked to have a shot or two of whiskey before he would emabrk on some calligraphy..and the great Tang poets would sing the virtues of wine many many times!

 

 

I know someone that claimed to have seen buddhist monks smoking opium first hand, but I am not him and therefore can't verify this.

 

But here is a news story of a buddhist monk of cambodia busted for opium, actually kilos of it. But just one monk doesn't mean much. In fact, a google search on "buddhist, temple, opium" mostly comes up with Buddhist temples affiliating with opiate treatment programs.

[Lucky7Strikes]

Qi gong practitioners utilize the alcohol differently than regular people. They detox the negative aspects. That's why you hear of some masters drinking, smoking, eating junk, and doing perfectly well. I don't doubt Daoist masters experimented with various drugs (at least the external alchemy sect).

 

So my question is...

 

How do they do it? Is it a technique or does the body start to react differently at a certain stage of practice?

[~jK~]

I know someone that claimed to have seen buddhist monks smoking opium first hand, but I am not him and therefore can't verify this.

 

But here is a news story of a buddhist monk of cambodia busted for opium, actually kilos of it. But just one monk doesn't mean much. In fact, a google search on "buddhist, temple, opium" mostly comes up with Buddhist temples affiliating with opiate treatment programs.

 

U got to remember - it is a Very different culture & enviornment in Asia.

If all was that easy - why would I stay 12 years to study the culture?

Why would it be interesting?

 

Monks are not required to carry Id cards that state them as a monk. All experiences are seen as learning experiences for the monks. No one here gives them money. they give them food.

 

There are many, many fake Buddhist monks in Asia. If someone needs to be on the run, they hit a real monk over the head, steel his robes and pouch & go find a tourist spot to beg.

[~jK~]

Qi gong practitioners utilize the alcohol differently than regular people. They detox the negative aspects. That's why you hear of some masters drinking, smoking, eating junk, and doing perfectly well. I don't doubt Daoist masters experimented with various drugs (at least the external alchemy sect).

 

So my question is...

 

How do they do it? Is it a technique or does the body start to react differently at a certain stage of practice?

 

I would really like to see 'realistic' documentation to these really strange claims.

 

Bio-chemistry is

Bio-chemistry is

Bio-chemistry.

B.S ain't it.

 

If you are going to grow

you got to know

the Way.

 

Confucious was the father of the scientific process of learning through objective experimentation

Edited September 12, 2009 by ~jK~

[Ya Mu]

Qi gong practitioners utilize the alcohol differently than regular people. They detox the negative aspects. That's why you hear of some masters drinking, smoking, eating junk, and doing perfectly well. I don't doubt Daoist masters experimented with various drugs (at least the external alchemy sect).

 

So my question is...

 

How do they do it? Is it a technique or does the body start to react differently at a certain stage of practice?

 

It is a technique of transmutation. But remember, nothing is free and this takes much energy and high level cultivation. My teacher had never partaken of alcohol in his life. But once he did a toast in our honor and neutralized the alcohol before he drank it. He also used me as an example, plying me with strong spirits at a feast we participated in, encouraging me to drink up, even coming to the point of almost insisting (but I was much younger and it didn't take THAT much prodding on his part) that I drink more. This came about as I asked him to teach me transmutation of toxins. I got quite drunk and couldn't stand up. He grinned really big, reached up and projected high-level qi to me for just a very few minutes. I instantly sobered up with no aftereffects. So, yes, it can be done. But no, YOU (any YOU reading this) can't do it so don't try as you could hurt yourself trying and if someone reading this has been taught this method then I am obviously not referring to you. And no, I do not publicly teach this, and no, I am not going to give anyone any proof, so consider this a story if you wish.

 

Bottom line, alcohol is a toxin, do not drink at all if you have an overindulgent personality or if you are not legally old enough to do so. If you do choose to drink, remember the golden mean.

[CarsonZi]

I got quite drunk and couldn't stand up. He grinned really big, reached up and projected high-level qi to me for just a very few minutes. I instantly sobered up with no aftereffects.

 

Interesting.... ....I managed to meditate my way out of an accidental LSD overdose in about an hour, but I doubt I could make someone ELSE not be high. That must have been quite an experience.

 

Love,

Carson

[~jK~]

It is a technique of transmutation. I am not going to give anyone any proof, so consider this a story if you wish.

 

Bottom line, alcohol is a toxin, do not drink at all if you have an overindulgent personality or if you are not legally old enough to do so. If you do choose to drink, remember the golden mean.

 

 

YAHOOO! We Got Us A Magician with a Disclaimer !

 

Now I says to myself: Self - I wonders how many can't help but to follow this magic act

[~jK~]

Interesting.... ....I managed to meditate my way out of an accidental LSD overdose in about an hour, but I doubt I could make someone ELSE not be high. That must have been quite an experience.

 

Love,

Carson

 

MeThinks that only a smackahaha could meditate their way out of an acid attack,

Two opposite ends of the spectrum canceling each other.

Halucinations in sludgevision would be a river o-slime.

No Kiss the Sky for this guy.

MoLike a Wavy TarBaby.

[Vajrahridaya]

I agree with all this. My experience of so called toxins completely changed after doing lots of retreat and cultivation for many years without any toxins. Then... I can take acid, shrooms, coke, drink lots and lots and people think I'm completely sober, because my inner experience does not change. I can feel the chemical try to do something to me from within, and I change it through a kind of focus, or re-balancing of my mind.

 

Plus I don't get addicted to anything. It's strange and I think it's just having high, positive and happy vibration... that's it.

 

I did this stuff as an experimentation as I read that some Tantric yogi's took poison to test their attainment and focus of mind.

 

By the way... I'm not a perfected Master. I don't recommend this excuse either. I'm just saying... there is a definite change in a persons physiological make up before and after intense spiritual cultivation.

 

Take care.. don't try this at home kids!!

 

Do intense retreat in the house of an enlightened Master instead!!

[~jK~]

I agree with all this. My experience of so called toxins completely changed after doing lots of retreat and cultivation for many years without any toxins.

 

MeThinks you don't agree with me !

Actually - meditation can over ride the psycological effects of some drugs - but not the physiological. You can still die, have hallucionations, have heart attack, withdrawal symptoms etc...

Edited September 13, 2009 by ~jK~

[Ya Mu]

YAHOOO! We Got Us A Magician with a Disclaimer !

 

Now I says to myself: Self - I wonders how many can't help but to follow this magic act

MeThinks that only a smackahaha could meditate their way out of an acid attack,

Two opposite ends of the spectrum canceling each other.

Halucinations in sludgevision would be a river o-slime.

No Kiss the Sky for this guy.

MoLike a Wavy TarBaby.

 

You can make fun of things you do not understand. It is OK as that's what people have been doing since the beginning of time. I guess you are not aware of the hundreds of experiments done with wei qi liao fa in which bacteria have been neutralized?

 

And, by the way, FYI, I am not a magician but a person who has studied qi cultivation for 30 years and uses wei qi liao fa (healing with external energy) every day to eliminate pain in other people at a clinical qigong clinic.

 

Said the unbeliever, "You mean to tell me that machinery exists that can send these invisible waves through the air and pick it up as moving pictures and sound on a CRT? What a fool you are; nothing can do that!"

[Eviander]

I usually dislike the effects of all alcohol except absinthe. I doubt drinking every now and then will negatively effect any sort of martial art discipline though..especially if its absinthe . Though I have only drunk it a few times.

[~jK~]

You can make fun of things you do not understand. It is OK as that's what people have been doing since the beginning of time. I guess you are not aware of the hundreds of experiments done with wei qi liao fa in which bacteria have been neutralized?

 

And, by the way, FYI, I am not a magician but a person who has studied qi cultivation for 30 years and uses wei qi liao fa (healing with external energy) every day to eliminate pain in other people at a clinical qigong clinic.

 

Said the unbeliever, "You mean to tell me that machinery exists that can send these invisible waves through the air and pick it up as moving pictures and sound on a CRT? What a fool you are; nothing can do that!"

 

Wow - now you try to prove your unprovable with quotes from Nikola Tesla ?

Show me the proof baby! You ain't no Nikola Tesla.

 

But you should own up to your own statement of:

 

(Ya Mu @ Sep 12 2009, 04:59 AM)

It is a technique of transmutation. I am not going to give anyone any proof, so consider this a story if you wish."

 

I do consider it a story - which is just a polite way of saying that it is a ~

[Old Man Contradiction]

I usually dislike the effects of all alcohol except absinthe. I doubt drinking every now and then will negatively effect any sort of martial art discipline though..especially if its absinthe . Though I have only drunk it a few times.

 

I agree, usually drinking isn't fun for me. If it is just once in a while too, I doubt motor function will be harmed.

[Ya Mu]

Wow - now you try to prove your unprovable with quotes from Nikola Tesla ?

Show me the proof baby! You ain't no Nikola Tesla.

 

But you should own up to your own statement of:

I do consider it a story - which is just a polite way of saying that it is a ~

 

It wasn't simply a quote from Tesla but a quote of everyone who wishes to limit their understanding. It has been so throughout history and you give proof that it is still so.

 

Don't know what you mean by your second sentence.

 

How could one see that qi projection can take away a pain instantly, neutralize bacteria, kill virus, shrink a tumor, etc and not see that it is capable of other things. Don't limit yourself so much!

[~jK~]

How could one see that qi projection can take away a pain instantly, neutralize bacteria, kill virus, shrink a tumor, etc and not see that it is capable of other things. Don't limit yourself so much!

 

Sadly - you got the worst case of desires that I've ever seen.

The good news is that you got this entire thread now to play with.

I'm outa here.

Edited September 13, 2009 by ~jK~

[Ya Mu]

Sadly - you got the worst case of desires that I've ever seen.

The good news is that you got this entire thread now to play with.

I'm outa here.

Don't know what you mean by desires. These things are facts that are done in medical qigong by many practitioners everyday.

[宁]

The effect of the alcohol is that it breaks down the aura, and facilitates 'spirits' to enter and feed on your internal power.

It pulls your shen out, the Qi is scattered and the Jing has alot to suffer from alcohol - the liver, the blood, the sexual essence are all affected.

 

Of course there maybe the case of practicioners that have the Gongfu of getting it out of the system very fast.

But that is not very common.

Beer is more acidic than coke.

Wine, if it's blessed by a person with internal power, can be used as medicine sometime. But as medicine, it shouldn't be abused.

Alcohol - did you ever wonder why it's called 'spirits'?

 

There can be many excuses to defend one's habit and vices, but the truth is alcohol is hardly a 'friend' for a dedicate practicioner... I guess it all depends on what one wants in life.

[Old Man Contradiction]

I guess it all depends on what one wants in life.

[hyok]

There is absolutely no problem with having a beer every day or two. Or even a couple sometimes. Especially if this is in your genes, like myself, with German roots. And especially if you're laughing with friends during it.

 

Just as I suspected, your Oktoberfest Lineage must have given you special powers and abilities with alcohol.

 

Edited September 13, 2009 by hyok

[Aetherous]

[Vajrahridaya]

MeThinks you don't agree with me !

Actually - meditation can over ride the psycological effects of some drugs - but not the physiological. You can still die, have hallucionations, have heart attack, withdrawal symptoms etc...

 

I think it depends. My experiment is over though. So, don't worry guys!

 

 

Wow - now you try to prove your unprovable with quotes from Nikola Tesla ?

Show me the proof baby! You ain't no Nikola Tesla.

 

But you should own up to your own statement of:

I do consider it a story - which is just a polite way of saying that it is a ~

 

JK,

 

You do have some more experiences to be had through the practice that will blow your cherished beliefs of what is "real" and "false" out of the water of your mind.

[Vajrahridaya]

The effect of the alcohol is that it breaks down the aura, and facilitates 'spirits' to enter and feed on your internal power.

It pulls your shen out, the Qi is scattered and the Jing has alot to suffer from alcohol - the liver, the blood, the sexual essence are all affected.

 

Of course there maybe the case of practicioners that have the Gongfu of getting it out of the system very fast.

But that is not very common.

Beer is more acidic than coke.

Wine, if it's blessed by a person with internal power, can be used as medicine sometime. But as medicine, it shouldn't be abused.

Alcohol - did you ever wonder why it's called 'spirits'?

 

There can be many excuses to defend one's habit and vices, but the truth is alcohol is hardly a 'friend' for a dedicate practicioner... I guess it all depends on what one wants in life.

 

Yes, I think for the most part your right. I have literally seen such things as spirits going into the bodies. The energy at bars is very "hungry ghost" or "Preta" as well. Unless one has totally exhausted his or her hell and animal realms, strange things happen when alcohol is introduced into the system. But, that person without hell or animal in them, would most likely not do much drinking if any at all anyway.

[Zhuo Ming-Dao]

Edited September 13, 2009 by Zhuo Ming-Dao

[33865_1494798762]

Right now, i'm 19yrs old, I don't drink alcohol. I'm not sure if even the smallest amount would negatively impact the neural and neuro-muscular connections I'm developing in yichuan/taiji. I think Lao Tzu's nondual teachings would simply allow alcohol to be as it is, and is probably indifferent to drinking it. By the way, I am referring to natural alcohols... non-fortified, non-distilled, and non-genetically modified yeasts. What do you believe?

 

You drink or leave it as you like, it dosent matter.

It is your expectations to alcohol that destroys the body, not the alcohol. Alcohol is basically sugarmolecules being rearranged, besides the body itself produces alcohol - don't worry.