The jhanas

[Sunya]

Yes, but we really need direct experiencing that blows our 5 sense perception assumptions out of the water too. Which is I think what many high level Guru's are working on with us. Including ChNNR of course with his Rigpa transmissions.

 

I agree. but the point raised was how traditional dogma is not completely useful for modern people who want direct experience

 

Thanks for the info markern, yes, there are many flavours to buddhist teachings..

 

Yes, sometimes the nimittas last for days. That is, it is like someone turned on a tv inside your head/third eye/inner vision and forgot to shut if off. I remember that one nimitta lasted a few weeks but that was when I was practicing kunlun level 1. It wasn't a pure nimitta. There is/was a sun, a huge dark ocean and a stone buddha floating over the water. Sometimes the nimitta clouds over after a few hours.

 

Lately I've added practicing 'sensing the inner body' via Eckhart Tolle and I"ve discovered that the more you let go, relax and sense the inner body, the more it causes lights to appear in the third eye. It also causes your perineum to pulse, sensitize and charge up (or something). During one sitting, I saw many multi-colored pastel lights in front of my brow (inner sight), and my perineum realeased waves of ecstatic conductivity up my body and out through the crown. .. Just by really relaxing and sensing the inner body and letting go!

 

I also noticed a few times in my life, that sometimes, if I am overtired, just before falling asleep, I will see a brilliant white light. When that happens, I am always confused, sort of like thinking that someone turned on the light in the bedroom. I think what is happening is you get into that same level of letting go (when you are overtired), and the light (which is a nimitta) appears..

 

In any case, I think the light is a good sign that you are getting deeper and deeper into stillness..

 

TI

 

relaxing the mind is the fundamental practice of dzogchen/mahamudra. it can lead you to non-dual awareness/presence.

 

btw Namkhai Norbu teaches in his book "Dream Yoga" about that Light you experience. it's the Son Light, a very deep aspect of mind and the practice of Dream yoga is to rest in that clear light. when you can continually recognize that light, then at the moment of death, when you experience the Mother Light, then you can attain complete realization at the moment of death. so I hope you can familiarize yourself with that Light it would prove very beneficial.

[JustARandomPanda]

btw Namkhai Norbu teaches in his book "Dream Yoga" about that Light you experience. it's the Son Light, a very deep aspect of mind and the practice of Dream yoga is to rest in that clear light. when you can continually recognize that light, then at the moment of death, when you experience the Mother Light, then you can attain complete realization at the moment of death. so I hope you can familiarize yourself with that Light it would prove very beneficial.

 

Fascinating. Is this the same or similar to the "Child Light / Mother Light" Bill Bodri talks about in his 25 Doors to Meditation?

[alexandrov]

I am very interested in developing higher level jhanas but I was reading that if you are living a normal life with normal responsibilities it really is not possible, and that retreat is needed, even if you are meditating hours a day because the stresses of everyday life will serve to cancel out the calm you cultivate in meditation. Is this true?

 

I have read that in order to gain any level of shamatha above stage 2 or continuous attention one must spend weeks or months in retreat and that if one wants to acheive the 4th level of shamatha one must spend months or years in retreat. Is this so?

 

I was wondering if you can go to a retreat reach a specific level of jhana, and then go back to normal life with all of its chaos and keep that same level of jhana when you practice meditation? Basically I dont want to put all the effort into attaining jhanas if I may loose them at a later time. Can anyone comment on this?

 

thank you

[voidisyinyang]

To have "achievement of cessation" there should be a week of fasting in deep meditation. I went 8 days on half glass of water. This has to be done only after 3 months of celibacy and intensive meditation practice in seclusion, along with guidance or transmissions from an energy master.

 

You should probably go here if you want real Jhana meditation:

 

http://www.paauk.org/

 

Otherwise most Theravada monk traditions are "cessation and contemplation" which is mainly a passive practice relying on karma yoga -- or just morality of monks. You don't make much progress in meditation that way but the more modern monasteries are focused on charity and education anyway.

 

This is even true in the Mahayana tradition as well. You could even do a three year retreat but that doesn't necessarily mean deep meditation -- it depends on the context, daily practice, if there's fasting, etc.

 

I am very interested in developing higher level jhanas but I was reading that if you are living a normal life with normal responsibilities it really is not possible, and that retreat is needed, even if you are meditating hours a day because the stresses of everyday life will serve to cancel out the calm you cultivate in meditation. Is this true?

 

I have read that in order to gain any level of shamatha above stage 2 or continuous attention one must spend weeks or months in retreat and that if one wants to acheive the 4th level of shamatha one must spend months or years in retreat. Is this so?

 

I was wondering if you can go to a retreat reach a specific level of jhana, and then go back to normal life with all of its chaos and keep that same level of jhana when you practice meditation? Basically I dont want to put all the effort into attaining jhanas if I may loose them at a later time. Can anyone comment on this?

 

thank you

[Guest paul walter]

.

well i'm moreso talking about how our society is grounded in reason and logic and not blind faith. we need evidence and we need things to make sense. we need practical. thats just how we are.

 

 

While this seems true for the people who like to conciously live contra religion, it's not at all true in practice. I for one almost never encounter the essential qualities of these terms in daily life-quite the opposite (but of course there is no telling those who use these ideologies that they are proclaiming another faith-in intellectual concepts ) . Perhaps it gives hope that we are aware that we are hard-wired for non intellect/linguistic living and yearn for the 'mystery' even when proclaiming its 'opposite'. Or perhaps its just mental illness from being in cultures that confuse and indoctrinate you with Newspeak?

[alexandrov]

To have "achievement of cessation" there should be a week of fasting in deep meditation. I went 8 days on half glass of water. This has to be done only after 3 months of celibacy and intensive meditation practice in seclusion, along with guidance or transmissions from an energy master.

 

You should probably go here if you want real Jhana meditation:

 

http://www.paauk.org/

 

Otherwise most Theravada monk traditions are "cessation and contemplation" which is mainly a passive practice relying on karma yoga -- or just morality of monks. You don't make much progress in meditation that way but the more modern monasteries are focused on charity and education anyway.

 

This is even true in the Mahayana tradition as well. You could even do a three year retreat but that doesn't necessarily mean deep meditation -- it depends on the context, daily practice, if there's fasting, etc.

 

thanks for the advice drew, unfortunatley due to severe prostate probs I cant go celebate very long, umm the stuff leaks in the urine etc. And yes ive tried the whole sublimation gig VERY seriously before and although I can draw energy from sperm back into my body, it does not change the fact that my prostate ejac valves are screwed up and it does not stop the said fluid from leaking in my urine. Also the energy is of a very neurotic nature. I understand the basis for theories of using sexual energy to generate samadhi, it simply is not an option for me at the moment, although i do think that this kind of approach may be quicker or better suited for some. however if I could fix my prostate then that would be a different story.....

 

thanks also for the website, I will check it out, yes from what i have seen most modern traditions focus on vipassana and other modalities.

[voidisyinyang]

You have to sit in full-lotus.

 

thanks for the advice drew, unfortunatley due to severe prostate probs I cant go celebate very long, umm the stuff leaks in the urine etc. And yes ive tried the whole sublimation gig VERY seriously before and although I can draw energy from sperm back into my body, it does not change the fact that my prostate ejac valves are screwed up and it does not stop the said fluid from leaking in my urine. Also the energy is of a very neurotic nature. I understand the basis for theories of using sexual energy to generate samadhi, it simply is not an option for me at the moment, although i do think that this kind of approach may be quicker or better suited for some. however if I could fix my prostate then that would be a different story.....

 

thanks also for the website, I will check it out, yes from what i have seen most modern traditions focus on vipassana and other modalities.

[alexandrov]

You have to sit in full-lotus.

 

oh really? will that cause my dysfunctional prostate ejaculation valves to start functioning correctly?

 

If so please do tell the mechanism of full lotus doing so. Drew come on, I mean seriously is full lotus your

 

answer to everything? I appreciate your posts here and all you have to contribute but if you read my post

 

before you would know I already tried sexual sublimation excercises to help my problem and they didnt stop it

 

from occuring. So just how on earth is full lotus going to help me?

 

many of the practices ive tried "eat up" sperm energy at a very fast rate probably faster then full lotus, and t

 

they have not done anything to help fix the leakage OR any of the other prostate problems I have for that

 

matter.

[voidisyinyang]

So you haven't tried full-lotus but you're too desperate to do so? haha. What a joke. You can't sit in full-lotus?

 

 

 

oh really? will that cause my dysfunctional prostate ejaculation valves to start functioning correctly?

 

If so please do tell the mechanism of full lotus doing so. Drew come on, I mean seriously is full lotus your

 

answer to everything? I appreciate your posts here and all you have to contribute but if you read my post

 

before you would know I already tried sexual sublimation excercises to help my problem and they didnt stop it

 

from occuring. So just how on earth is full lotus going to help me?

 

many of the practices ive tried "eat up" sperm energy at a very fast rate probably faster then full lotus, and t

 

they have not done anything to help fix the leakage OR any of the other prostate problems I have for that

 

matter.

[alexandrov]

So you haven't tried full-lotus but you're too desperate to do so? haha. What a joke. You can't sit in full-lotus?

 

various forms of pranayama and getting close to khechari also work to sublimate the sex energy in a similar fashion full lotus would, in fact the energy produced from kechari (or close to it) and certain forms of pranayama I find more powerful then any other techniques ive tried including full lotus. Ive sublimated to the point that when i ejaculated through night emissions (again weak ejaculation valves, this has nothing to do with having semen build up) only 1 or 2 drops come out and its painful, so my point is in my case just reabsorbing sex fluid wont do the trick, its not the solution for everyone in every situation at every given point of time.

 

but anyways I dont want to hijack this thread any furthur.......or we could have a discussion about attaining jhanas through energetic techniques such as shambavi, kechari, etc because that is technically attaining jhanas......

[voidisyinyang]

Again you have to BURN the sex fluid. IONIZATION. Sit in full-lotus.

 

various forms of pranayama and getting close to khechari also work to sublimate the sex energy in a similar fashion full lotus would, in fact the energy produced from kechari (or close to it) and certain forms of pranayama I find more powerful then any other techniques ive tried including full lotus. Ive sublimated to the point that when i ejaculated through night emissions (again weak ejaculation valves, this has nothing to do with having semen build up) only 1 or 2 drops come out and its painful, so my point is in my case just reabsorbing sex fluid wont do the trick, its not the solution for everyone in every situation at every given point of time.

 

but anyways I dont want to hijack this thread any furthur.......or we could have a discussion about attaining jhanas through energetic techniques such as shambavi, kechari, etc because that is technically attaining jhanas......

[alexandrov]

Again you have to BURN the sex fluid. IONIZATION. Sit in full-lotus.

 

i understand completely what you are saying, but how is full lotus any different from kechari, or pranayama or any asana geared at sublimating sex energy?

[SAMANTABHADRA]

This whole thread is something.

 

If I may put forth the book cosmos and psyche by Richard Tarnas. I think it's a brilliant read; a bit hefty in the middle with empirical evidence, but the message and the target audience call for no less.

 

If nothing more, read the first few chapters and the last few chapters. Much of the debate on this forum and many others, and perhaps in many forms throughout the world today, expresses one of two dominant archetypal energies facing off. Subject, object, etc. They are to be integrated as a society, and we can be the ones who do it.

 

So, yes to open debate and dialogue. As to the jhana question, I speak as someone with no formal claims to attainment of any sort: I suggest that insight is insight and jhanas are not. I do not suggest that jhanas are worthless; to the contrary, I think they are valuable tools. If you think about us as self-programming computers, insight is realizing that we aren't our programs; but if that knowing exists, then it certainly doesn't behoove us not to change the programs. Why not?

[voidisyinyang]

So you can't sit in full-lotus?

 

i understand completely what you are saying, but how is full lotus any different from kechari, or pranayama or any asana geared at sublimating sex energy?

[alexandrov]

So you can't sit in full-lotus?

 

no i can, as i mentioned in one of my previous posts,

 

i answered your question, how about you answer one of mine?

 

i will ask politely again

 

"how is sublimating sex energy going to fix my broken ejaculation valves"

 

or

 

" I understand completely what you are saying, but how is full lotus any different from kechari, or pranayama or any asana geared at sublimating sex energy?"

[lino]

 

Vajrahridaya,

 

Brother...I'm trying to say this in the nicest way possible. You talk of your absolute Bodhi but where is your relative Bodhi?

[voidisyinyang]

Once again the answer is IONIZATION aka "purification" aka BURNING -- try reading "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality" by Charles Luk - study the book. read it several times over a year -- it details the very important difference between

 

REABSORBING or SUBLIMATION as you're REPEATEDLY stated.

 

and

 

IONIZATION or BURNING or PURIFICATION.

 

Good luck.

 

no i can, as i mentioned in one of my previous posts,

 

i answered your question, how about you answer one of mine?

 

i will ask politely again

 

"how is sublimating sex energy going to fix my broken ejaculation valves"

 

or

[alexandrov]

suggest that insight is insight and jhanas are not. I do not suggest that jhanas are worthless; to the contrary, I think they are valuable tools. If you think about us as self-programming computers, insight is realizing that we aren't our programs; but if that knowing exists, then it certainly doesn't behoove us not to change the programs. Why not?

 

I think insight is better for certain individuals, and jhanas are more appropriate for others such as myself. And a combination would of corse be what buddhists would say is necessary. But then again there are the people that say you need jhanas before you get real insight. And then some that will tell you high jhanas are not attainable for a normal person today.

[Nilo]

 

Every meditation tradition explains that there are two aspects to any effective meditation practice: insight and concentration. In Mindfulness in Plain English, author Bhante Henepola Gunaratana, a monk from Sri Lanka and venerated teacher of Buddhism, offered basic instruction on the meaning of insight (or vipassana) meditation through concepts that could be applied to any tradition. In Beyond Mindfulness in Plain English, he presents the levels of concentration with the same simplicity and humor that made the previous book so successful. The focus here is on the Jhanas, those meditative states of profound stillness and concentration in which the mind becomes fully immersed and absorbed in the chosen object of attention. Using the Jhanas to guide readers along the path to joy, happiness, equanimity, and one-pointedness, the author provides all of the instruction necessary to utilize meditation as a tool for building a more fulfilling life.

[alexandrov]

First, I want to apologize to everyone for hijacking this thread multiple times and getting off topic.

 

Also I want to apologize to Drew for coming off as rude, because I really was being very rude at one point and he was only trying to offer me his help. There was no justification for me to give him such attitude. Also I do not know the difference between sublimation and ionization so it appears it was my misunderstanding that spurred an argument. Again my apologizes for this and to Drew and everyone else.

 

Now I am very interested in Jhanas and one of my goals is to try and develop them at some point probably using the traditional meditation approach ie no energy techniques. I just dont konw how feesable it is for me to develop them at the moment (with a normal busy life and all)

[markern]

First, I want to apologize to everyone for hijacking this thread multiple times and getting off topic.

 

Also I want to apologize to Drew for coming off as rude, because I really was being very rude at one point and he was only trying to offer me his help. There was no justification for me to give him such attitude. Also I do not know the difference between sublimation and ionization so it appears it was my misunderstanding that spurred an argument. Again my apologizes for this and to Drew and everyone else.

 

Now I am very interested in Jhanas and one of my goals is to try and develop them at some point probably using the traditional meditation approach ie no energy techniques. I just dont konw how feesable it is for me to develop them at the moment (with a normal busy life and all)

 

Daniel Ingrams free ebook and the dharmaoverground will help you with that

[Maddie]

Granted I skimmed this thread rather quickly, but while I saw a lot of discussion about the Jhanas I didn't really see a good explanation as to what they are. Can anyone enlighten me?

[thelerner]

Granted I skimmed this thread rather quickly, but while I saw a lot of discussion about the Jhanas I didn't really see a good explanation as to what they are. Can anyone enlighten me?

No you can only enlighten yourself

 

I was looking to find a briefer explanation, but here's my favorite teacher's somewhat indepth explanation on them: http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/Books/Ajahn_Brahm_The_Jhanas.htm

Edited May 6, 2013 by thelerner

[Maddie]

No you can only enlighten yourself

 

I was looking to find a briefer explanation, but here's my favorite teacher's somewhat indepth explanation on them: http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/Books/Ajahn_Brahm_The_Jhanas.htm

Thanks for the link. BTW I love Ajahn Brahm :-)

[RongzomFan]

Granted I skimmed this thread rather quickly, but while I saw a lot of discussion about the Jhanas I didn't really see a good explanation as to what they are. Can anyone enlighten me?

 

They are contrived meditation states.