Zen as a great creation

[exorcist_1699]

I always think that Zen is a great creation , a great and bold religious action taken by a group of Chinese at certain historical period of time that seldom can you find another example in human history ; yet it is not any careless creation without its Buddhist legacy and support from those Buddhist classics , for instance , the Diamond Sutra .The deeper you understand those Buddhist classics, the louder the applause you will give to

Zen's creation .

 

Have you ever heard of a religion deliberately getting rid of its own holy scripts , smashing its own idols ( not other religions' idols ) ,capsizing its own altar so as to fulfill its own Greatness while most other religions are still entangled by the trivial rules of how to worship, by the numbers of times or direction that people have to pray in a day , by the so-called holy words in their holy book....

 

 

Zen's styles are always splendid, always straightforward without any compromise, always abrupt ; It sets our mind over an abyss in order to attain a sudden change , an abrupt awakening towards an everlasting life .

Edited September 16, 2009 by exorcist_1699

[Tao99]

[Prince hisoka]

You're right, Zen is a really good cultivation school, and it's koans are facsinating

Thanks for the post.

[Encephalon]

Just so we're clear -

 

Buddhism + Taoism = Chan, or Zen (Japanese). Zen Buddhism came about by the melding of Buddhism and Taoism.

[Marblehead]

Just so we're clear -

 

Buddhism + Taoism = Chan, or Zen (Japanese). Zen Buddhism came about by the melding of Buddhism and Taoism.

 

Isn't there elements of Shinto (the traditional roots) in there too?

 

Happy Trails!

[Encephalon]

Isn't there elements of Shinto (the traditional roots) in there too?

 

Happy Trails!

 

Shinto is the animist tradition of Japan. It may have melded with Zen Buddhism in Japan, but it wasn't part of the Buddhist/taoist fusion of China.

[Zhuo Ming-Dao]

Isn't there elements of Shinto (the traditional roots) in there too?

 

Happy Trails!

 

I think that you would be very hard pressed to find any overt Shinto influences in Japanese Zen.

 

What you do see in Japan is a further refinement and purification of the Chan tradition to its absolute most essential elements. This austere transformation was influenced greatly by the samurai culture that was simultaneously developing along side of it. And from this interplay, you see the rise of wabi/sabi ideals, tea ceremony, Noh theater, flower arrangement, gardens and bonsai, house design and furniture arrangement, martial art principles (archery, sword play, hand-to-hand), cooking techniques, music, etiquette, and so on. It got to the point where Zen minimalism/essentialism became practically synonymous with Japanese culture.

Edited September 16, 2009 by Zhuo Ming-Dao

[Marblehead]

I think that you would be very hard pressed to find any overt Shinto influences in Japanese Zen.

 

I was just curious. It has been over thirty years since I read anything regarding the historical evolution of Zen and, of course, my memory of that is very weak.

 

Happy Trails!

[exorcist_1699]

A study of Zen's attitude towards Taoism , or Taoism's attitude towards Zen must be very interesting and stimulating . Here, what I am interested is mainly in its methodological aspect .Generally speaking , in Chinese history , Taoism does show a will of assimilating Buddhist methods , includes Zen's ,while Buddhism always underplay the immportance of Taoist .

 

Taoism is always open-mind and eager to make use of other systems/ methods whenever it finds them correct or useful in some aspects : One of the strength of Zen is its having delicate analysis about our stream of consciousness, and its complex , interactive relations with external status ("境" ) . Zen's ability of cutting off that stream of consciousness is always amazing . However, after chopping it and pushing it into a state of mindlessness , Zen's alert not to make it smother to dead in that pool of "stagnant water", is more significant .

 

Zen's masters knows well that to the utmost of that status of mindlessness , "chaos" will arise ; and , to the utmost of that "chaos" , a much Great Mind ( god/ God )would pop-up. It is that Great Mind the solution for our sufferings and makes eternal life possible, not those trivial ceremony, words on the Sutra or any statues...

Edited September 16, 2009 by exorcist_1699

[hyok]

 

Zen's masters knows well that to the utmost of that status of mindlessness , "chaos" will arise ; and , to the utmost of that "chaos" , a much Great Mind ( god/ God )would pop-up. It is that Great Mind the solution for our sufferings and makes eternal life possible, not those trivial ceremony, words on the Sutra or any statues...

 

Fascinating. Question though - does Zen bypass the Original Person leading to the Great Mind? Or are they the same?

[exorcist_1699]

Both Zen's and Taoist writings always mention the Original Person / Genuine Person, a state much higher than just being mindless , yet many people just miss to identify it...

 

Attaining a state of mindlessness can only prevent our spirit from diffusing into our senses, which benefits us not much , and can only be viewed as some kind of transition : Upwards it can jump towards a bigger , clearer Mind ; downwards it can fall back into a drowsy state or sleeping as most old people always are apt to .

 

Like a hen hatching an egg, in Zen and Taoist practice , some kind of persistent mindless concentration

is needed , some kind of energetic support from jing and qi is always necessary , which unfortunately becomes deficient when we are getting old . This is the reason why Taoist masters always say that it is a fortune to meet Tao at our younger age .

 

Or, does Zen surpass the steps of refining jing or qi?

 

As most precedent Zen Masters were in fact unmarried or became a monk in very young age , they did not have to worry about it...so it looks like Zen surpass the process of refining stuff such as jing and qi , which is not true.

Edited September 21, 2009 by exorcist_1699

[Marblehead]

Like a hen hatching an egg, in Zen and Taoist practice , some kind of persistent mindless concentration

is needed , some kind of energetic support from jing and qi is always necessary ...

 

I liked that. Thanks.

 

Happy Trails!