Thoughts on Buddhism?

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Thoughts on Buddhism? I am thinking about starting to study Buddhism in more depth. Where do you all suggest I start? I was thinking on focusing on Tao and Zen. Is that a good idea?

[Pax]

I would suggest doing a little reading over on E-Sangha, they have excellent resources for beginners.

 

Enjoy your search!

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Thank you! I am doing just that. Do you suggest getting a teacher or joining a temple?

[Pax]

Thank you! I am doing just that. Do you suggest getting a teacher or joining a temple?

I think it would help to know the basics and have and idea which tradition suits you before seeking out a teacher. If there is a sangha nearby you could visit and see if that particular sangha is for you.

[Marblehead]

Hi Leon,

 

May you have a happy journey on your new quest.

 

I have no suggestions except what has already been said: start with the basics then you can determine which direction you wish to go.

 

Happy Trails!

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Thank you both. I was thinking on focusing on Tao and Zen. Is there a way to combine both of these faiths/philosophies?

[Encephalon]

I think it would help to know the basics and have and idea which tradition suits you before seeking out a teacher. If there is a sangha nearby you could visit and see if that particular sangha is for you.

 

Exceeeeeeeeeeeedingly good advice! Studying Buddhism is like studying Christianity or jazz or candy; there are so many variations and definitions. If you are a westerner, then you might want to start reading works by authors who are part of the East/West dialogue. They can be either Easterners or Westerners, but the important point is that they possess the cross-cultural insight to skillfully express the ideas.

 

Stephen Batchelor - Buddhism without Beliefs

 

David Loy - The Great Awakening and

Money, Sex, War, Karma

 

Jack Kornfield - The Wise Heart

 

Mindfulness in Plain English - Bhante Henepola Gunuratana

 

Most of these are on Amazon.

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Exceeeeeeeeeeeedingly good advice! Studying Buddhism is like studying Christianity or jazz or candy; there are so many variations and definitions. If you are a westerner, then you might want to start reading works by authors who are part of the East/West dialogue. They can be either Easterners or Westerners, but the important point is that they possess the cross-cultural insight to skillfully express the ideas.

 

Stephen Batchelor - Buddhism without Beliefs

 

David Loy - The Great Awakening and

Money, Sex, War, Karma

 

Jack Kornfield - The Wise Heart

 

Mindfulness in Plain English - Bhante Henepola Gunuratana

 

Most of these are on Amazon.

 

Thank you! That was helpful.

[Encephalon]

Thank you both. I was thinking on focusing on Tao and Zen. Is there a way to combine both of these faiths/philosophies?

 

Understand the relationship between Tao and zen first. Zen Buddhism was the intellectual offspring of Taism and Indian Buddhism, although this melding occured in China, so it was called 'chan.' It's called 'zen' by the Japanese.

 

You can just about combine anything you want, and it's inevitable, but you really want an accurate roadmap for studying Buddhism because it is such a vast subject. Like Christianity, orthodox Buddhism and the extant writings were composed hundreds of years later after the Buddha's era, and certain liberties of interpretation have been taken. It is the religious trajectory whether in the east or west.

 

In my opinion, which is something I really don't have on the subject because I cannot yet improve upon the Buddhist scholars who have come before us, Buddhism is the science of mind, whereas Taoism offers more of a body-centered path. I need both. I think the world needs both.

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Can I combine Tao and Zen together? Make it as one? Tai Chig, Qi Gong with Meditation? I know there is much more to Buddhism, like the 4 noble truths as well. However, just wondering if it could both be applied.

 

Understand the relationship between Tao and zen first. Zen Buddhism was the intellectual offspring of Taism and Indian Buddhism, although this melding occured in China, so it was called 'chan.' It's called 'zen' by the Japanese.

 

You can just about combine anything you want, and it's inevitable, but you really want an accurate roadmap for studying Buddhism because it is such a vast subject. Like Christianity, orthodox Buddhism and the extant writings were composed hundreds of years later after the Buddha's era, and certain liberties of interpretation have been taken. It is the religious trajectory whether in the east or west.

 

In my opinion, which is something I really don't have on the subject because I cannot yet improve upon the Buddhist scholars who have come before us, Buddhism is the science of mind, whereas Taoism offers more of a body-centered path. I need both. I think the world needs both.

 

That was really helpful! Thanks. I did not know Zen came from Tao. That somewhat makes sense.

[Pax]

You might find this site to be a decent basic primer.

[Encephalon]

Can I combine Tao and Zen together? Make it as one? Tai Chig, Qi Gong with Meditation? I know there is much more to Buddhism, like the 4 noble truths as well. However, just wondering if it could both be applied.

That was really helpful! Thanks. I did not know Zen came from Tao. That somewhat makes sense.

 

Also, be forewarned, as I was NOT!

 

This is a tender subject in here. The degree to which Buddhism is regarded as viable subject matter in a Taoist forum is still a hotly debated point. And we really do have our equivalent of the southern Baptists arguing over whether total immersion in a river is necessary for a Baptism to take effect, or whether a couple drops of water sprinkled on the forehead does the job. I'm not kidding.

[DalTheJigsaw123]

You might find this site to be a decent basic primer.

 

Thank you so much!

 

Also, be forewarned, as I was NOT!

 

This is a tender subject in here. The degree to which Buddhism is regarded as viable subject matter in a Taoist forum is still a hotly debated point. And we really do have our equivalent of the southern Baptists arguing over whether total immersion in a river is necessary for a Baptism to take effect, or whether a couple drops of water sprinkled on the forehead does the job. I'm not kidding.

 

Yea, I have seen those sweet little debates:) Well, I think my thing is trying to focus on something. I have focused on Tao, quite a bit. But trying to combine it with something. I suppose Zen? I want the body and the mind to work together. I feel Tao is more of a body and Zen is more of the mind?

[Encephalon]

Thank you so much!

Yea, I have seen those sweet little debates:) Well, I think my thing is trying to focus on something. I have focused on Tao, quite a bit. But trying to combine it with something. I suppose Zen? I want the body and the mind to work together. I feel Tao is more of a body and Zen is more of the mind?

 

I think you could make that argument, but it's important too remember that zen is Japanese and somewhat of a product of the samurai ethos, as others in the forum have pointed out, so it's important to understand the roots of your own private blend.

 

Tao is more body-centered than zen or chan, and, in its own unique way, is a more comprehensive teaching because it unifies so many different subjects. There are plenty of body-centered teachings that came out of the buddhist tradition (Shaolin) but Buddhism has a more developed social and psychological theory.

 

As a rule, go for balance. If you have a tendency to intellectualize, get physical. If you're personal power exceeds your moral and ethical development, you need to go for mind training and some formal studies in Buddhist ethics.

[Ryan T.]

Tao is more body-centered than zen or chan, and, in its own unique way, is a more comprehensive teaching because it unifies so many different subjects. There are plenty of body-centered teachings that came out of the buddhist tradition (Shaolin) but Buddhism has a more developed social and psychological theory.

 

As a rule, go for balance. If you have a tendency to intellectualize, get physical. If you're personal power exceeds your moral and ethical development, you need to go for mind training and some formal studies in Buddhist ethics.

 

This is probably some of the best advice I have seen on this forum!

[DalTheJigsaw123]

This is probably some of the best advice I have seen on this forum!

 

That is great! What are some examples of the above listed?

 

I think you could make that argument, but it's important too remember that zen is Japanese and somewhat of a product of the samurai ethos, as others in the forum have pointed out, so it's important to understand the roots of your own private blend.

 

Tao is more body-centered than zen or chan, and, in its own unique way, is a more comprehensive teaching because it unifies so many different subjects. There are plenty of body-centered teachings that came out of the buddhist tradition (Shaolin) but Buddhism has a more developed social and psychological theory.

 

As a rule, go for balance. If you have a tendency to intellectualize, get physical. If you're personal power exceeds your moral and ethical development, you need to go for mind training and some formal studies in Buddhist ethics.

 

That is great! What are some examples of the above listed?

[Eviander]

It's a religion. It contains dogma and is full of bs.

 

Just another opiate for the masses.

[DalTheJigsaw123]

It's a religion. It contains dogma and is full of bs.

 

Just another opiate for the masses.

 

So you think Tao is the closest thing to openness?

[Vajrahridaya]

It's a religion. It contains dogma and is full of bs.

 

Just another opiate for the masses.

No, that's Television your talking about.

 

 

This is probably some of the best advice I have seen on this forum!

 

Well, I don't know about the best, but it's darn good advice... that's for sure.

[Gerard]

It's a religion. It contains dogma and is full of bs.

 

Just another opiate for the masses.

 

Fully agree. My advice:

 

Start practicing Vipassana meditation (preferably in a retreat environment) and DO NOT READ ANY BUDDHIST MATERIAL.

 

This is the real Buddhism.

 

It's sad to see how humans have tampered so badly with Buddha's message. However the Four Noble Truths are still valid and they can't be manipulated:

 

1. Life is suffering

2. Suffering is caused by attachment

3. The cessation of suffering is attainable and it is called Nirvana

4. There is a path to attain Nirvana and it is called the Noble Eightfold Path, which is spiritual in essence

 

I have felt the truth of the Four Noble Truths in deep meditation and afterwards so many times, that I fully agree with it.

 

I would stay away from the rest of the Buddhist written material.

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Fully agree. My advice:

 

Start practicing Vipassana meditation (preferably in a retreat environment) and DO NOT READ ANY BUDDHIST MATERIAL.

 

This is the real Buddhism.

 

It's sad to see how humans have tampered so badly with Buddha's message. However the Four Noble Truths are still valid and they can't be manipulated:

 

1. Life is suffering

2. Suffering is caused by attachment

3. The cessation of suffering is attainable and it is called Nirvana

4. There is a path to attain Nirvana and it is called the Noble Eightfold Path, which is spiritual in essence

 

I have felt the truth of the Four Noble Truths in deep meditation and afterwards so many times, that I fully agree with it.

 

I would stay away from the rest of the Buddhist written material.

 

Thank you! That was some great advice. What sites or books do you recommend for Vipassana meditation? Also, do you suggest practicing Tao and Zen?

[Zhuo Ming-Dao]

Japanese Zen is very strict (Rinzai, even more so than Soto). It will force you to sit upright and push yourself long and hard until your mind becomes clear, quiet, and luminous. Zen does not play around with lots of fancy techniques (other than koan training), but causes you to master your concentration and look deeply upon your original face, your innate enlightened nature. But this is difficult. As they say, Zen is not for the curious or the tame of heart.

 

That said, Zen was wonderful for me. For many years I did a lot of Taoist energy work, healing, and martial arts, but in a very undisciplined, haphazard way. I would frequently try different forms of meditation or trance work, but again, I was too scattered. I turned to Zen because I could not force myself to sit for long periods on my meditation pillow and just be with myself. Daily Zen meditation and biweekly time at the local Zen center strengthened my mind and will like nothing else I had ever done (including vipasana retreats and the like).

 

And Zen and Tao work very well together. Although Zen itself might somewhat discourage the alchemical approach, it complements basic energy work and Taoist martial arts beautifully.

Edited September 18, 2009 by Zhuo Ming-Dao

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Japanese Zen is very strict (Rinzai, even more so than Soto). It will force you to sit upright and push yourself long and hard until your mind becomes clear, quiet, and luminous. Zen does not play around with lots of fancy techniques (other than koan training), but causes you to master your concentration and look deeply upon your original face, your innate enlightened nature. But this is difficult. As they say, Zen is not for the curious or the tame of heart.

 

That said, Zen was wonderful for me. For many years I did a lot of Taoist energy work, healing, and martial arts, but in a very undisciplined, haphazard way. I would frequently try different forms of meditation or trance work, but again, I was too scattered. I turned to Zen because I could not force myself to sit for long periods on my meditation pillow and just be with myself. Daily Zen meditation and biweekly time at the local Zen center strengthened my mind and will like nothing else I had ever done (including vipasana retreats and the like).

 

And Zen and Tao work very well together. Although Zen itself might somewhat discourage the alchemical approach, it complements basic energy work and Taoist martial arts beautifully.

 

Interesting. Thank you for sharing. I saw this one film called: The Zen Mind. I enjoyed it a lot. If any of you who is interested in Zen haven't seen it, I suggest you guys do. It's an amazing film.

[林愛偉]

Can I combine Tao and Zen together? Make it as one? Tai Chig, Qi Gong with Meditation? I know there is much more to Buddhism, like the 4 noble truths as well. However, just wondering if it could both be applied.

That was really helpful! Thanks. I did not know Zen came from Tao. That somewhat makes sense.

 

 

Chan (Zen) didn't come from Daoism. It is called Dhyana, and Shakyamuni Buddha expounded the Dhyana (Chan/Zen) teachings to Maha Kashyapa by holding up a flower. Only Maha Kashyapa smiled out of the entire assembly, and that was the first transmission of the Chan school in India, not China. It came to China through Bodhidharma, and passed down to 5 other Patriarchs...down to the 6th Patriarch Hui Neng.

 

Peace,

Lin

[Vajrahridaya]

LeonBasin,

 

You might like to start out with getting advice from E-Sangha in the Mahayana section as there are a few who consider themselves Toaist Zensters or Taoist Chansters. Your hardly going to get much good advice on Buddhism in this board. Though you already did get some good advice.

 

This book answers many questions from a perspective of many traditions. It has a good rating on Amazon too...

 

Essence of Buddhism

 

Buddhism for Beginners by Thubten Chodron

 

 

 

Also if you are really interested in Zen... check this out. Also, read the ratings on it.

 

The Three Pillars of Zen

 

If you want to know more about Chinese Buddhism or the tradition that pre-dates Zen called Chan in China...

 

Check this out!

Attaining the Way: A Guide to the Practice of Chan Buddhism

Edited September 18, 2009 by Vajrahridaya