Chapter 1

[Cameron]

1. The Way

The Way that can be experienced is not true;

The world that can be constructed is not real.

The Way manifests all that happens and may happen;

The world represents all that exists and may exist.

 

To experience without abstraction is to sense the world;

To experience with abstraction is to know the world.

These two experiences are indistinguishable;

Their construction differs but their effect is the same.

 

Beyond the gate of experience flows the Way,

Which is ever greater and more subtle than the world.

[Cameron]

Ok, I'll take a shot. I think Lao Tzu(whether he was a single man or group of writers) is saying that the Way, the Tao, is beyond all limiting thoughts and frameworks here. It is beyond our experience . That no matter how much personal experiences we may accumulate, this iss till not the Way. The way is something greater than the sum of all of our experiences. Perhaps even greater than the experience of this single lifetime.

[Diacarwyn]

The Way/Source; Infinity Universal, Boundless, The one True Source of Light, Love and Joy. Vanity Driven; the Self fails to maintain a certain Position or Condition, Likeness or Similarity, against the one True Source. Grandeur: Grand Thoughts, Grand Achievements, Grand Creations are Diminutive, Shrouded, and never hold Truth. Truth with-out Want is Real Truth. We absorb information: the out-look reflects our Perception of the Truth. We are the Universe, We are the Truth, We are the Way: how we navigate our Path is the Truth. The Way must have a quite; nevertheless, intuitive Mind?

Edited February 11, 2015 by Philip Fry

[Marblehead]

Ah! Here we are, back to this concept that cannot be conceptualized nor rationalized.

 

The Tao that can be spoken are the Ten Thousand Things.

 

The Tao that cannot be spoken is the Mother of the Ten Thousand Things.

 

But we can experience the Mother.

 

And we all will, one day, return to the Mother.

 

We can experience the Mother by experiencing her children (the Ten Thousand Things) (this includes fully experiencing our self).

[rene]

And we all will, one day, return to the Mother.

 

Not possible to return to something that's impossible to be apart from.

[Marblehead]

Not possible to return to something that's impossible to be apart from.

That's not playing fair!

[Songtsan]

sure it is - the act of returning can be symbolized as simply turning oneself around to the original face...it doesn't mean that you actually went somewhere though, just changed views without really moving...

 

'return' is sometimes defined as 'coming back to an original condition'

 

so its like a state change

[Marblehead]

Yeah, but I still like to talk about reversion (return) and cycles.

 

They are observable processes within nature and this includes humans.

 

I know what Rene is talking about as this has been her understanding ever since I have known her.

 

But she ignores the concept of being in a state of total "yu" and returning to a state of harmony within both "wu" and "yu". That would be lines 5 - 8 in the above translation.

[rene]

 

But she ignores the concept of being in a state of total "yu" and returning to a state of harmony within both "wu" and "yu". ....

 

She ignores nothing (-:

Just as f'ullest Yang contains the seed of Yin, total "yu" is unboundaried with "wu".

Both, baby. Always. Simultaneously. Both.

[Marblehead]

Hehehe.

... total "yu" is unboundaried with "wu".

We've not talked directly about this concept before as best I can recall.

 

Granted that "wu" is unboundaried, but "yu" is boundaried, is it not? Once a "thing" has been manifested it has limits. Hard as I try I still cannot fly.

 

Yeah, yeah, I know, one foot on dry land and the other in the ocean.

[dawei]

Not possible to return to something that's impossible to be apart from.

 

I sometimes take a shower to remove the accumulated dirt...

 

And I need to wipe off the car head lights so the true, original light shines...

 

Under the dirt, the light encounters interference to its original use

[rene]

dawei - yes, feels like a paradox doesn't it.

[Marblehead]

dawei - yes, feels like a paradox doesn't it.

Dawei is full of paradoxes.

[Marblehead]

 

Yeah, yeah, I know, one foot on dry land and the other in the ocean.

But then, thinking about this, we really can't go swimming of we keep one foot on dry land.

[rene]

Granted that "wu" is unboundaried, but "yu" is boundaried, is it not? Once a "thing" has been manifested it has limits. ..

 

The idea of 'either/or' is a very hard one to let go of.

The "thing" has some limits, yes. But all of its aspects may not be limited...

Tao is even in the dirt, yes?

Perhaps your idea of Tao has limits; mine knows none.

 

warm regards

[Daeluin]

Hard as I try I still cannot fly.

 

Not with that attitude.

Why limit possibility?

[Ish]

- 

Edited July 26, 2016 by Ish

[Marblehead]

 

Perhaps your idea of Tao has limits; mine knows none.

 

warm regards

You may be right there. I don't know. But then, we may just have different understandings.

 

I'm still a Materialist, you know.

[Marblehead]

Not with that attitude.

Why limit possibility?

Hehehe. My attitude has nothing to do with the fact that I'm not a bird or bat and don't have wings.

[Daeluin]

Oh.. you think wings are needed to fly?

I've read stories of immortals flying.

[Marblehead]

Yeah but honestly, you're not going to jump off a cliff right? : )

 

 

And mentally ill or otherwise compromised people who do actually truly believe they can do these things still ..... doesn't happen.

Yep. There are big differences between the concepts of possible, probable and actual.

 

Even if I thought it was possible for me to fly I still actually would not be able to fly. That is one of my limits.

[Marblehead]

Oh.. you think wings are needed to fly?

I've read stories of immortals flying.

Yeah, and I've read stories about the Easter Bunny.

[Daeluin]

The limits we perceive may influence what is possible for us, but not what is actually possible.

[Daeluin]

All sorts of snow flying around outside right now.

[Marblehead]

The limits we perceive may influence what is possible for us, but not what is actually possible.

But My Dear Sir, how many times have I said that we should know our capabilities and capacities and that periodically test what we think we know to see if they have changed any?

 

I know that with age my limits have become tighter. Sure, I can still do most of the things I could do when I was younger but most take much more time now than they did before.