Yiquan standing meditation

[mattmiddleton]

Hi there, does anyone have any tips for the standing meditation or zhan zhuang? what is a good amount of time to stand? thx.

what should one focus on in the main as one stands?

Edited September 19, 2009 by mattmiddleton

[Old Man Contradiction]

stand for 20 minutes to several hours. Your focus should be on relaxing any tension at all, but keeping your body held together structurally. Another main focus is keeping your body ready to move and your mind ready to react. Stand in your posture as if ready to start a 100 yard dash. You keep your body awake and ready to move, and your mind is anticipating the gunshot sound. The key part is focusing on your body and your surroundings, all of the sounds and sights. If in nature, that would be the trees, the silence, the wind etc..

 

always being ready to react.

[everseeking]

Just curious, what benefits can one see by standing for several hours?

[Andrei]

M66BHJa6Y9c

l-cRiqml6QA

just stay as long as you feel good and full of qi, when you become tired and begin feeling pain just stop. 20 min may seem a long time for a beginner and very painfull, i advise you to begin with 5 min, then after a month or two to double to 10 min, then again after a month or two or three to double the time again to 20 min an so on. Practice every day at about the same hour of the day. You probably will reach 1 hour time of practicing in about one or two years depending on your physical and mental strength.

edit:
if you are shaking that means you are too weak, there is too little yang qi in your system.
if you are sweating that means you have too much yang qi which is not stable
you need to pass these stages of shaking and sweating until you balance the yin and yang and until you stabilize it. when yin and yang qi are balanced and stabilized you will feel like a vibration, or a buzz in limbs and body. when you reach this stage you will be capable to stay longtime in the posture without pain.
meditation in lotus or semilotus help building yang qi and to stabilize it while slow movements like taichi help mixing the yin and yang and unblocking the knots
the yin qi comes from the earth through the soles of the feet
good luck Edited September 20, 2009 by steam

[Old Man Contradiction]

Just curious, what benefits can one see by standing for several hours?

 

If you are doing the basics of the basics in zhan zhuang. You will see good health and a silent mind. It can be a nondual practice.

 

 

 

With the more martial oriented things you can do with zhan zhuang, you connect up all of the different muscles in your body by physically joining them in activity. Doing this for several hours, everyday will really hardwire your neurology to link up all the muscle in the body. Meanwhile, your fascial tissue be adapting to the given force you exert. Your fascia surrounds all muscle, skeleton, and organs. It literally interconnects every part of your body. When force is exerted on the fascia, it adapts by growing more dense and therefore strong in order to deal with the new trauma. This is what gives people bad posture... and why sometimes the bones that a chiropractor re-sets will go back into poor position... because the fascial tissue that gives the spine it's structure has re-allocated it's collagen fiber to concentrate on supporting the bad spinal position.

 

When you mentally exert force a la Yichuan in zhan zhuang, over time you are creating enough force to stimulate dense growth of fascial tissue that connects your musculature and skeleton. It can then be part of the creation and movement of inertia most effectively from the feet, through the body, the fist, and into your opponent.. Properly executed, it will be your opponent's organs that stop that inertia.

 

note: studies only show the way fascia reacts to trauma. No studies have been done on zhan zhuang and fascia that I can find in english, so technically this is theory. Check out the article on this website about Zhan Zhuang and Tensegrity.

[bindo]

Here's a good article on Zhan Zhuang.

 

http://www.tqj.de/TQJ-Web-alt/English/03-4/ekoskuba.html

[lifeforce]

Here's a good article on Zhan Zhuang.

 

http://www.tqj.de/TQJ-Web-alt/English/03-4/ekoskuba.html

 

Thank you. That is a great article from a well respected teacher.

 

Hi there, does anyone have any tips for the standing meditation or zhan zhuang? what is a good amount of time to stand? thx.

what should one focus on in the main as one stands?

 

May I suggest Lam Kam Chuen's book, The Way Of Energy, which will guide you gradually through the process.

Also very importantly, try to find a teacher in the internal arts who can correct any imbalances you may have, even if you just meet up periodically.

[Gerard]

Edited September 20, 2009 by durkhrod chogori

[宁]

M66BHJa6Y9c

 

l-cRiqml6QA

 

just stay as long as you feel good and full of qi, when you become tired and begin feeling pain just stop. 20 min may seem a long time for a beginner and very painfull, i advise you to begin with 5 min, then after a month or two to double to 10 min, then again after a month or two or three to double the time again to 20 min an so on. Practice every day at about the same hour of the day. You probably will reach 1 hour time of practicing in about one or two years depending on your physical and mental strength.

 

edit:

if you are shaking that means you are too weak, there is too little yang qi in your system.

if you are sweating that means you have too much yang qi which is not stable

you need to pass these stages of shaking and sweating until you balance the yin and yang and until you stabilize it. when yin and yang qi are balanced and stabilized you will feel like a vibration, or a buzz in limbs and body. when you reach this stage you will be capable to stay longtime in the posture without pain.

meditation in lotus or semilotus help building yang qi and to stabilize it while slow movements like taichi help mixing the yin and yang and unblocking the knots

the yin qi comes from the earth through the soles of the feet

good luck

 

good post.

keep in mind that the position of the shoulderblades and the chest are essential, they can either build power or........

[sheng zhen]

good post.

keep in mind that the position of the shoulderblades and the chest are essential, they can either build power or........

Can you say a little more about this please? In what position of the shoulderblades does the energy build and in what position does it "or........."?

[宁]

oh that's in master chia's advanced biomechanics of the iron shirt, basically the three levels (training the organs and fascia, training the tendons and joints, training the marrow and sexual essence) are the inner teachings of the martial arts as he learned them from some shaolin monk i don't remember exactly the story that doesn't matter

i'm not sure it's ok to make open statements about techniques, but i guess it'll be all right just once, really sorry if i dissapoint but i have to respect the rules that go hand in hand with the teaching... if the chest is not right the energy will get stuck and you'll have problems with the organs inside the chest. if the shoulderblades are not rightly positioned the 'power' will stuck into the spine and you'll get problems with it...

 

it's an issue about making the right connections between the bones and the tendons so that the power can safely travel from one point of the body to the other. also you can store it and then discharge it with specific methods which are really cool. most of the chinese masters do not agree that these are taught openly to westerners and have low esteem of master chia's work, but you know how it is, you have to see what works for you and take it and make it your own thru your own practice...

all you need to know are in the Iron Shirt Chi Kung, Tendon Chi Kung and Bone Marrow Nei Kung books and videos. they are not very expensive and can save you years of research....

 

the pole standing has it's secrets also, it's not just 'tofu qigong', it's really a very direct way to build internal power. although i can understand why most masters won't share that and tell you just stay still and do nothing... if it's not accompanied with true emotional and mental alchemy the results can be catastrophic, that's why master chia always stresses they must be learned and understood together with the whole system....

 

i hope i helped at least a little

[sheng zhen]

My girlfriend allways tells me "oh, you're doing that "tofu-stuff" again"

 

i hope i helped at least a little

It did not help at all! At least not in relation to my question...

 

I would like to read the books by Mantak Chia but I dont think I will find the time.

[宁]

i can't help it, it's the way i learned

[mattmiddleton]

i can't help it, it's the way i learned

 

 

hey thanks alot you guys.!

[sheng zhen]

When you mentally exert force a la Yichuan in zhan zhuang, over time you are creating enough force to stimulate dense growth of fascial tissue that connects your musculature and skeleton.

hmmm... Im not sure about this. I dont think fascia gets more dense thoughout the body. Maybe your right, but I would not think so. I would rather think it becomes more flexible and able to rearrange, heal and transmit forces over longer distances faster(whole-body force).

 

The body is a natural biotensegrity system(www.biotensegrity.com) that is fractally going all the way from macro-muscles and bone positions, to cellular cytoskeleton. With our psychosomatic modern troubles we override this natural internal balance of forces and instead we fight to keep an unhealthy posture using the wrong muscles(corresponding to our state of consciousness).

 

With ZZ and stillness we let our immature and unintelligent psychosomatic projections subside so the natural intelligence of the body can do its job and return the body to its natural equilibrium. Instead of fighting to keep an unhealthy posture, we relax and let the body correct itself.

 

The hand surgeon, Jean Claude Guimberteau, say that in pathological cases the fascial biotensegrity becomes slower and rearrange itself to external forces slower than in healthy fascia. It does not become "stuck", it just gets slower. He has made several real-life (amazing!!!) video of the the fractal fascial biotensegrity which you can find here, under Videos: http://www.guimberteau-jc-md.com/en/ One of the videos is downloadable for free and gives a short presentation of his observations.

[Andrei]

you know what they say:

-if you take aspirin the cold will pass away in seven days

-if you don't take anything the cold will pass away in one week

-if you take a vaccine shot the cold will pass away in one month

[Old Man Contradiction]

hmmm... Im not sure about this. I dont think fascia gets more dense thoughout the body. Maybe your right, but I would not think so. I would rather think it becomes more flexible and able to rearrange, heal and transmit forces over longer distances faster(whole-body force).

 

The body is a natural biotensegrity system(www.biotensegrity.com) that is fractally going all the way from macro-muscles and bone positions, to cellular cytoskeleton. With our psychosomatic modern troubles we override this natural internal balance of forces and instead we fight to keep an unhealthy posture using the wrong muscles(corresponding to our state of consciousness).

 

With ZZ and stillness we let our immature and unintelligent psychosomatic projections subside so the natural intelligence of the body can do its job and return the body to its natural equilibrium. Instead of fighting to keep an unhealthy posture, we relax and let the body correct itself.

 

The hand surgeon, Jean Claude Guimberteau, say that in pathological cases the fascial biotensegrity becomes slower and rearrange itself to external forces slower than in healthy fascia. It does not become "stuck", it just gets slower. He has made several real-life (amazing!!!) video of the the fractal fascial biotensegrity which you can find here, under Videos: http://www.guimberteau-jc-md.com/en/ One of the videos is downloadable for free and gives a short presentation of his observations.

 

Studying my teacher's movements yesterday, now I believe that his body is in it's natural balance and elasticity. I retract my theory of fascial trauma and standing. His intelligent use of relaxation and firmness, as well as the principles of physics is what does the trick. Zhan Zhuang does train this too.

 

I do believe that the fascia readjusts itself in terms of collagen fiber in the case of trauma, of course I could be mistaken but I think it is in DVD 1 of Thomas Meyer's Anatomy Trains 10 DVD set.

 

checking out those videos now.

Edited September 22, 2009 by Old Man Contradiction

[gendao]

[sheng zhen]

Studying my teacher's movements yesterday, now I believe that his body is in it's natural balance and elasticity. I retract my theory of fascial trauma and standing. His intelligent use of relaxation and firmness, as well as the principles of physics is what does the trick. Zhan Zhuang does train this too.

 

I do believe that the fascia readjusts itself in terms of collagen fiber in the case of trauma, of course I could be mistaken but I think it is in DVD 1 of Thomas Meyer's Anatomy Trains 10 DVD set.

 

checking out those videos now.

You will probably enjoy Guimberteaus work aswell! He shows the fascial tensegrity in live tissue. Its beautiful, mindblowing and amazing! Its constantly moving and rearranging and adjusting to external(or internal) forces. I don't remember if his videos are shown in the Anantomy Trains DVDs. Let me know if you see some of his videos there.

 

In a new video he made that is just about to be published he show that the collagen fibers go all the way from skin into the tendons. The only difference is that the tendons are more compact than the skin. Other than that is is the same tissue! Its the same with the muscles and bones. Nothing is separate from fascia. So the tendons don't "slide". Its just fascia moving within itself.

 

Fascia is all over, into and through everything, even singular cells, connecting everything from micro-scale to macro-scale. Nothing in the body is separated from fascia. Fascia probably has a lot more to show us now that researchers are really starting to look at it.

 

With a little imagination we might look upon fascia as the physical manifestation of qi

 

And Zhan Zhuang definitely activates the natural biotensegrity equilibrium. I did a short presentation on Zhan Zhuang at a biotensegrity seminar in France a few weeks ago.

 

When I do ZZ and relax, my spine expands instead of collapse like we would normally believe when we relax. It feels like I'm floating and being supported from within. So I can spend my time in stillness instead of fighting with tense muscles against gravity

[Old Man Contradiction]

 

awesome info sheng zhen.

 

I think a lot of the feelings and movement people experience in the martial arts and claim is Qi, is actually just newtonian forces and the fascial network. The sifu I learn from also does not believe that these things are mystical, but are within the laws of physics. Nevertheless, in his experienced stage he does cultivate qi.

[sheng zhen]

awesome info sheng zhen.

 

I think a lot of the feelings and movement people experience in the martial arts and claim is Qi, is actually just newtonian forces and the fascial network. The sifu I learn from also does not believe that these things are mystical, but are within the laws of physics. Nevertheless, in his experienced stage he does cultivate qi.

I completely agree its not mystical! Its very fun to see how science confirms ancient knowledge, like in Longorythms post on the microcosmic orbit and the spine, but we must not forget that science is thousands of years behind the taoists study of the body. I believe science just gives us another perspective and another way of explaining, but the experiences are still the same.

 

The biotensegrity equilibrium can be explained as Zheng Qi - Upright qi. Or, from now on we can say - biotensegrity qi, hahaha

Edited September 22, 2009 by sheng zhen

[Baguakid]

Depends on the end goal I guess as to how it can be described?

 

When I practice ZZ I feel my Stomach contract (physically) in a tonifying manner, I feel the same with my intestines, I feel digestive gurgling, activity, I feel Qi move my body, and I experience greater energy throughout the day.

 

But the focus of my practice is to open channels and build qi. Yi Quan is a Martial art so it's approached from a different training viewpoint.

[Gerard]

Thanks, my liver is probably my weakest organ right now. So, I've recently been working on clearing it of anger/resentment/etc (which apparently it has been storing over lifetimes like a battery, lol ) and getting down to the real root of its problem.

 

Next after that is my kidneys, which have also always been on the weak side...

 

 

Don't worry too much and keep cultivating. You have been given a great chance this lifetime, make the best use of it.

 

Old Man Contradiction,

 

Yes it is true what you are saying but Qi is more subtle, it is felt in a different way much more sensitive yet energetic. Sometimes I feel it like a massive magnet expanding right out of the lower dantien.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Gerard