Sense Pleasures

[lifeforce]

Hi Everyone.

 

In a lot of spiritual/religious systems there seems to be a lot written on this subject.

That the way to enlightenment/bliss is to discard sensory pleasures and emotions.

There seems to be a paradox that I can't figure out.

Is it so wrong to appreciate beauty, love and to have compassion for all living beings ?

Also, the afterlife plays a dominant part in a lot of religions. Are we missing out on life now by focussing on the future and the next life, whatever form that may take ?

I'd be interested in people's opinions and help with this dilemma.

[sunshine]

I'd be interested in people's opinions and help with this dilemma.

 

The only dilemma is that there are so many different viewpoints with everyone claiming theirs to be the right one.

 

I believe it to be quite simple actually:

 

you can peacefully "appreciate beauty, love and to have compassion" as this is not about sense pleasures, right?

 

If you really mean: appreciating having sex with a perfectly modeled body, forgetting yourself in thinking of some other you believe to love etc.

 

then ALL THAT tends to be more addictive like. If you manage to let things go the minute you leave them behind you are free. If you cling to them by feeling or by thought: you are not!

 

About this life and afterlife. Whatever the afterlife might bring... concentrate on this life as this will give you the best cards for any afterlife.

 

If you look for peace of mind, peace of emotions, peace of thoughts etc. and freedom of yourself you work on it now and it has the best chance to get you free in the future... cling to things and you keep yourself bound already here... how to expect to be free later on?

 

For some: enjoy things first in order to be able to let them go later.

 

enjoy

 

Harry

[33865_1494798762]

Hi Everyone.

 

In a lot of spiritual/religious systems there seems to be a lot written on this subject.

That the way to enlightenment/bliss is to discard sensory pleasures and emotions.

There seems to be a paradox that I can't figure out.

Is it so wrong to appreciate beauty, love and to have compassion for all living beings ?

Also, the afterlife plays a dominant part in a lot of religions. Are we missing out on life now by focussing on the future and the next life, whatever form that may take ?

I'd be interested in people's opinions and help with this dilemma.

 

That may be so in the books but in reality it is fake.

The teachers who claim this are lying. They may seem powerful but they are not, in fact they are far from - they maintain and survives as this identity by stealing your power, only crucial thing to them is that they will have to create a life in a hideout far from their audience, through their inventions of multy dimensional existence - an ancient trick they play to catch and manipulate the audience attention.

The most successful ones are dead (The ultimate secret hideaway) a long time ago, yet even to day their legacy is maintained.

 

They ask that you refrain from stimulants while you on their encouragement, in fact become their stimulant - They smoke you!

 

Your question is one of the most important issue I've seen here in Taobums.

Many will reject this and waist their entire life on earth.

 

Discard sensory pleasures and emotions and you will instantly fall to the ground dead.

Edited September 19, 2009 by Guest

[de_paradise]

Enjoyment sense pleasure is fine as long as it doesnt reinforce the idea of seperate self, your ego getting gratified, you getting something.

 

You are meant to live in joy and abundance, but unless you have attained a level where you can enjoy with the attitude of an enlightened being, then the pleasure will reinforce the idea of seperate self, you getting something.

 

So as long as you are on the path then a certain amount of avoiding pleasures, or even total austerity can be a method by which you train your mind not to attach value to these things, so you dont crave them and reinforce the idea of seperate self. A method is meant to advance you spiritually, so that the flow of prana into your body ever increases, and the conection of your mind to your higher self and universe is widened, your jing gets more chi and your chi more shen, etc.

 

Sensual pleasure, whether it be pure sunsets or raunchy S and M, are not in themselves bad or good.

 

As far as missing out on life now, that is true, but look at the tradeoff value: a few years meditations versus millions of years as a being in higher bliss. If you are not prepared to sacrifice then you must ask yourself if you actually believe its possible.

[lifeforce]

[ngtest]

Hi Everyone.

 

In a lot of spiritual/religious systems there seems to be a lot written on this subject.

That the way to enlightenment/bliss is to discard sensory pleasures and emotions.

There seems to be a paradox that I can't figure out.

Is it so wrong to appreciate beauty, love and to have compassion for all living beings ?

Also, the afterlife plays a dominant part in a lot of religions. Are we missing out on life now by focussing on the future and the next life, whatever form that may take ?

I'd be interested in people's opinions and help with this dilemma.

 

 

Let me clarify things, according to what Buddha taught:

 

Let alone enlightenment, just to even attain the jhanas, you need to abandon sensual desire, together with the other four hindrances (ill will, sloth-torpor,restlessness anxiety, doubt).

 

You have to abandon your resolve for sensuality. Your mind must be released from passion. You must discern: 'Passion is abandoned in me, its root destroyed, made like a palmyra stump, deprived of the conditions of development, not destined for future arising.'

 

You have to make the Bodhi resolve. This involves cutting of desires and getting rid of emotional lust.

 

Selfless compassion for living beings is not sensual desire.

 

Don't fall into the pit of love and views.

 

According to Master Nan Huai Chin:

"Desire is very crude, so if desire is not cut off, you cannot realise the fruit of enlightenment. How can you cut off desire? First Buddha teaches us not to eat after noon."

 

Also you must cultivate deep meditation.

[lifeforce]

First Buddha teaches us not to eat after noon."

 

This is the sort of quote that makes me run a mile from religion.

[ngtest]

This is the sort of quote that makes me run a mile from religion.

 

Nobody is forced to cultivate. If you want do, if you don't want don't.

[Mal]

Nobody is forced to cultivate. If you want do, if you don't want don't.

 

Or just do it another way because

there are so many different viewpoints with everyone claiming theirs to be the right one.

 

Exactly

 

 

For some: enjoy things first in order to be able to let them go later.

That one works for me, YMMV

[Marblehead]

I love my manifest pleasures and I ain't giving them up for nothing or noone. What is life without pleasure?

 

Happy Trails!

[Aetherous]

If you are making yourself all attached to being unattached to sense pleasures, then you're worse off. You are just creating even more divisions in your energy. Be natural. Because what we consciously manipulate in our character does not matter one bit, in regards to any type of cultivation...it only makes us delusional.

 

"There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven." - Ecclesiastes 3:1

[Eric23]

Every now and again the universe gives you a gift of a beautiful sunset, a mind blowing orgasm or a nice day enjoying the company of good friends; enjoy it, accept it and be sure to give thanks for it!!! Just don't get caught up in the thought process that every day or every moment has to be perfectly blissful.

[Ya Mu]

Hi Everyone.

 

In a lot of spiritual/religious systems there seems to be a lot written on this subject.

That the way to enlightenment/bliss is to discard sensory pleasures and emotions.

There seems to be a paradox that I can't figure out.

Is it so wrong to appreciate beauty, love and to have compassion for all living beings ?

Also, the afterlife plays a dominant part in a lot of religions. Are we missing out on life now by focussing on the future and the next life, whatever form that may take ?

I'd be interested in people's opinions and help with this dilemma.

 

If you do not enjoy having sense pleasures while you are here you will probably wish you had when you are not.

 

Only dogmatic beliefs tell us we should not. It is part of the effort of control mechanism that these beliefs initiate.

 

When you eat chocolate - EAT the chocolate - enjoy each and every bite with your whole being NOW. I assure you it does make a difference when you do this in the NOW or if you do it on the run, not really taking the time to enjoy it.

 

We are meant to have fun and enjoy ourselves in abundance. Cultivation does not mean giving up those things that bring about joy. Cultivation is about raising the energy body vibrational frequency, practicing virtue, and walking in the wu wei. We can do that while eating an orange IF we EAT the orange instead of grabbing the orange and eating it while running off to someplace. Compassion is a part of this and is needed to cultivate past a certain point.

 

Are we missing out on life now by focusing on the future and the next life, whatever form that may take ?

Yes. The only real thing is NOW. But by walking in the wu wei we are attuned to NOW while at the same time doing things that benefit all.

[freeform]

it does make a difference when you do this in the NOW or if you do it on the run

 

yes yes yes

 

This is it exactly.

 

Does the pleasure make you forget yourself, take you out of the present? or does it bring about more awareness and bring you into the now?

 

If we have every stimulus we come across - whether painful or pleasurable, bring us deeper into ourselves and into the present then we would live a truly fulfilling life.

[Marblehead]

If we have every stimulus we come across - whether painful or pleasurable, bring us deeper into ourselves and into the present then we would live a truly fulfilling life.

 

You would have to mention that. No, the pains of old age are not fun. But like y'all said, it does help keep the mind in the 'now'.

 

Happy Trails!

[DalTheJigsaw123]

The only dilemma is that there are so many different viewpoints with everyone claiming theirs to be the right one.

 

I believe it to be quite simple actually:

 

you can peacefully "appreciate beauty, love and to have compassion" as this is not about sense pleasures, right?

 

If you really mean: appeciating having sex with a perfectly modelled body, forgetting yourself in thinking of some other you believe to love etc.

 

then ALL THAT tends to be mor addictive like. If you manage to let things go the minute you leave them behing you are free. If you clinge to them by feeling or by thought: you are not!

 

About this life and afterlife. Whatever the afterlife might bring... concentrate on this life as this will give you the best cards for any afterlife.

 

If you look for peace of mind, peace of emotions, peace of thoughts etc. and freedom of yourself you work on it now and it has the best chance to get you free in the future... clinge to things and you keep yourself bound already here... how to expect to be free later on?

 

For some: enjoy things first in order to be able to let them go later.

 

enjoy

 

Harry

 

This was beautiful! It is really that simple!!!

[JustARandomPanda]

I don't know much about this but here are my thoughts on the subject.

 

I suspect that the whole bit about giving up desire or other kinds of sense pleasure mostly happens as a result of deep meditation practice. Not the other way around. With enough deep meditation desire eventually is replaced with centering calm.

 

The calm gives one the ability to enjoy the pleasures or whatever but without the attendant graspy 'desiring' that went with it before hand.

 

In other words...you get the best of both worlds.

 

 

I think perhaps that's what the Buddha and Lao Tzu was really trying to teach. Giving up the 'desiring' so that we may finally truly enjoy life to the fullest.

[Marblehead]

Well SereneBlue,

 

I think you understand more than you think you understand.

 

Happy Trails!

[markern]

I don't know much about this but here are my thoughts on the subject.

 

I suspect that the whole bit about giving up desire or other kinds of sense pleasure mostly happens as a result of deep meditation practice. Not the other way around. With enough deep meditation desire eventually is replaced with centering calm.

 

The calm gives one the ability to enjoy the pleasures or whatever but without the attendant graspy 'desiring' that went with it before hand.

 

In other words...you get the best of both worlds.

I think perhaps that's what the Buddha and Lao Tzu was really trying to teach. Giving up the 'desiring' so that we may finally truly enjoy life to the fullest.

 

YES YES YES YES YES YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I think this is 100% correct and the views many in this thread unfortunately has are very unhealthy and completly out of line with what the buddha taught. For the actual buddhist view on this things you could read some of shinzen youngs articles, for example the one on equanimity and the one on escaping into life (google him and you will find the articles one his home page). Also jack kornfield deals well with thi subject in "a wise hear- budhist psychology for the west) and adresses it somewhat in a path with heart. Big difference between indiference and non-attatchement. Actualy indifference is considered the "near enemy" of non-attatchement in buddhism and is a deviation from the middle way. You are not to be without desire but to hold your desire lightly. That does not actualy mean that desire is small, perceived desire would actualy increase a lot because equanimity alows it to be experienced fully, it only means that we do not hold the desire tighlty and cling to it.

[33865_1494798762]

I don't know much about this but here are my thoughts on the subject.

 

I suspect that the whole bit about giving up desire or other kinds of sense pleasure mostly happens as a result of deep meditation practice. Not the other way around. With enough deep meditation desire eventually is replaced with centering calm.

 

The calm gives one the ability to enjoy the pleasures or whatever but without the attendant graspy 'desiring' that went with it before hand.

 

In other words...you get the best of both worlds.

I think perhaps that's what the Buddha and Lao Tzu was really trying to teach. Giving up the 'desiring' so that we may finally truly enjoy life to the fullest.

 

But you don't give it up, nobody does.

 

.

 

Giving up on desires, is a desire in itself.

 

See, you play a trick on you self. The mind is like that, the nature of mind is nothing but a trick.

So what is actually going on is a tremendously egotistic process where in people become so one pointed, narrow minded and selfish. They can only recognise their desires, maybe change them, adjusting to the society.

 

Through meditation you may get fewer but, on the other hand, fare stronger desires, OK?

 

Your desire is to have no desire - ultimate egotrip

 

To continue this madness, the ego invents all it's gods, so now the ego can experience to have no desire - after all they now belongs to some one else - it's god If it was not happening in a ego (dead) world it would be a tragedy.

Edited September 22, 2009 by Guest

[NeiChuan]

Mm embracism "is" much stronger then escapism (Oh jeez I rhymed).. You need the emotions and have to learn to love/master them.. As far as know from my experience

[JustARandomPanda]

[33865_1494798762]

Edited September 22, 2009 by Guest

[JustARandomPanda]

[33865_1494798762]

Edited September 24, 2009 by Guest