Cultivation for longevity

[z00se]

I don't know many masters but have recently come to learn that several inventors of supposedly "Superb systems" which claim Longevity as one of their goals have lived MUCH shorter-than-average lives.

 

From webpage: Dr Morris founder of KAP died at 62 - http://www.hoshin.com/drmorris.asp

 

Apparently Wang Zhe, founder of Complete Reality Daoism ... passed away at 57. - User: Creation

 

considering....

A baby born in the United States in 2004 will live an average of 77.9 years, giving America a rank of 42nd worldwide - http://www.efmoody.com/estate/lifeexpectancy.html

 

Whether they died from natural or un-natural causes i think is irrelivent because the Tao is all encompassing and is responsible for life and death among everything else. According to my understanding, those who live in accordance with the Tao should have longevity.

 

I think the main concern is that these are the INVENTORS of these systems, and we are trying to replicate THEIR results - living 16+ years less than average!!

 

There could be other issues such as they were sick to begin with and thats why they began cultivation, or by trying to spread their system by writing books and teaching they wore themselves out etc.

 

Does anyone know of any systems where their inventors actually lived a long time? I practice Mantak Chias method and he is 64 according to his birth year in his books, but i must admit even in the recent videos he's looking much older than he did before, even though he seems he still has vitality.

[everseeking]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOphFl88U-g

 

Watch that clip man. No one wants to die, but we ALL do. Why waste your life trying to extend it, avoiding anything that ma end it-only to end up with a boring life? If there are life extending practices, they would definitely include exercise, good food, stress reduction, and happiness. You cant fight genetics, or a plane crash. Live a life worth living, free of fear. Even the fear of death. At least have a life you enjoy. Moderation, I say.

Thats my opinion.

[Old Man Contradiction]

Being one with the Tao also entails letting your body die when it is meant to.

Edited September 22, 2009 by Old Man Contradiction

[Aetherous]

I think it's a good question to raise.

 

With practices for longevity, you should see an increase in the health and lifespan on the practitioners. If that's not the case, then those practices are for something other than healing and longevity.

 

Of course it's true that quality is more important than quantity, and that some people just happen to die younger perhaps due to genetics, but these things are totally beside the point.

 

I think with many spiritual practitioners, you will see weakened health, due to the practices they take up. Fasting, or being vegetarian is obviously not healthy. Sitting still for long periods isn't. Developing a strong will, so that they don't listen to their bodies enough, can lead to overdoing certain things. Not being able to get deep sleep at night. And probably neurological problems due to using incorrect techniques, such as focusing on different parts of the body or forceful breathing practices.

 

That's not even mentioning the fact that with all spiritual techniques, you are bringing negative unconscious memories to the surface, to be dealt with. If you can't deal with it, you store it in the body, and it becomes an illness.

 

I think all of this is very important for spiritual practitioners to consider.

[Andrei]

There is something wrong in your logic. They died early but they became immortals. Or at least they learned how to become and in a future life they will become. Still doesn't prove anything, so what? Jesus died at 33 and became the King of the World. If you have a atheistic-materialistic paradigm then yes there is no point to cultivate anything, live your life and die. The reason we are living maximum 100 years is because we are engineered that way, we as a species were genetically manipulated, this is the only explanation I could find. But reality is much more complex than that, is not just DNA and how much is your lifespan. THEIR systems results is NOT longevity.

 

Longevity is a myth that come from the fact that cultivators regain the youth 'appearance' because melatonin secretion is increased due to meditation. Also melatonin is considered the 'self healing hormone' that cause disappearing the illnesses and darkening the white hair. But also there are more than one variable here, human body is a very complex mechanism. Also there is the myth of old hermits living in caves for several hundreds of years living only with air. But who would want that life? They are in a self mummification process. It's better to live 60 years but to be healthy and fit until the last second of your life than to live 80 or 90 being paralyzed or hunchbacked or having alzheimer.

 

so speak Zarathustra!

[NeiChuan]

A big part is attitude.. How your personality is and the reaction it has on your body.. The kinds of stimulation you give it aswell..

 

Big part Nutrition.. You can live long with qi gong/nae gong (Others aswell) as im sure you all know.. But people do it for different reasons and even if they die at 50.. It doesn't mean what they were looking for wasent accomplished.

[Jesse]

Fasting, or being vegetarian is obviously not healthy.

 

 

Hey Scott can you explain this statement a little more. I'm not sure I have heard this before and would like to learn why you said this. Not being confrontational just curious.

 

Jesse

[Aetherous]

It's a confrontational statement...

 

I will try to make a topic about it, and will probably put it in my subforum in the next few days. If I don't, and you're still interested, please remind me in a PM. It will take a bit of time and effort to put together.

[Jesse]

It's a confrontational statement...

 

I will try to make a topic about it, and will probably put it in my subforum in the next few days. If I don't, and you're still interested, please remind me in a PM. It will take a bit of time and effort to put together.

 

Thanks Scott, I love to learn new things so if you could explain it that would be great.

 

Jesse

[z00se]

Fasting, or being vegetarian is obviously not healthy. Sitting still for long periods isn't. Not being able to get deep sleep at night.

 

Yeah i think many of these things are unhealthy too. Also with vegetarian, all the strongest races (body wise) on the earth - Aussie Aboriginals, American Indians, Eskimos, NZ Maoris, African Maasai are all big meat/fish eaters. Eskimos eat nearly all meat/fish. Asian cultures eat little meat or dairy and are small and their bodies are naturally weaker and more vunerable than other races (It's accepted here in China, by the Chinese, that their bodies are naturally weaker than a Westerners). This is enough evidence for me.

 

Jesus died at 33 and became the King of the World.

 

He became the "king of the world" because many powerful people wanted him to. Theres many great spiritual people, it just that the leaders of countries used him and this religion apon the mostly uneducated population at the time for their benefit. The kings etc haven't been pushing 'this' religion for the last 2000 years soley for the benefit of others But do you want to die an early unhappy death (constantlly being persicuted) so that you can be in the memory of others? Not me.

 

 

SOMETHING ELSE I WONDER IS IMPORTANT...

 

If you run 20kms a day eventually you will wear out your knees and hips and be crippled without replacements. I read that if your organs are running at 12% of capabilities you will feel fine. Maybe with meditation we can run them up to 80-90% or so. If you run a car at high revs the performance will increase but the engine will wear out. Maybe boosting organ performance is good for healing for a short time but extended high output of organs could wear them out leading to an early death.

 

ANOTHER THING....

I agree nutrition is very important but for things such as alcohol and smoking causing early deaths i'm not so sure. I'm sure using either excessivly is not good, but my great grandma died at 105 and she would drink once ever 2 weeks or so (not just a tiny bit) and my other aunt can keep up with me on beer/spirits and she's 82! Maybe they are exceptions i'm not sure, but i like the sound of it so i'm not gunna be stopping my skull up sessions any time soon

[King Kabalabhati]

[Andrei]

But do you want to die an early unhappy death (constantlly being persicuted) so that you can be in the memory of others?

 

immortality is not the memory of others even if that helps. there are plenty of immortals unknown anonymous that erased their personal history having no one to remember them.

 

SOMETHING ELSE I WONDER IS IMPORTANT...

 

If you run 20kms a day eventually you will wear out your knees and hips and be crippled without replacements. I read that if your organs are running at 12% of capabilities you will feel fine. Maybe with meditation we can run them up to 80-90% or so. If you run a car at high revs the performance will increase but the engine will wear out. Maybe boosting organ performance is good for healing for a short time but extended high output of organs could wear them out leading to an early death.

 

you figured it out. it's about wearing the body but you have to know that our bodies are complex machines. we as living systems are made of five types of energies. the taoist five energies are different than the five skhandas of budhists. we are born with a karmic heritage that is already unbalanced and the living conditions and growing as adults usually increase this out of balance. The more unbalanced the closer to death we are.

 

ANOTHER THING....

I agree nutrition is very important but for things such as alcohol and smoking causing early deaths i'm not so sure. I'm sure using either excessivly is not good, but my great grandma died at 105 and she would drink once ever 2 weeks or so (not just a tiny bit) and my other aunt can keep up with me on beer/spirits and she's 82! Maybe they are exceptions i'm not sure, but i like the sound of it so i'm not gunna be stopping my skull up sessions any time soon

 

There are very few peoples lucky enough to have a balanced life without even knowing, they were born in the right place doing the right things and living a long happy life. These are the exceptions. For them maybe the right thing to do was to eat meat or to drink wine or to smoke to keep their energies in balance. But it is not the same for everybody.

 

Usually the more out of balance you are, the quicker you figure out there is something wrong with your system and seek the balance. And sometimes even seeking the balance may wear out some organs by boosting the type of energies you need to cultivate.

 

Also in the cultivation practices may appear the inertia that may harm you by doing too much. Doing too much is also out of balance so ultimately we need to cultivate balance before anything else. It is like learning to drive a car but before you mastered it you may have done a lot of mistakes that wear out your car or even had an accident.

[Loke]

And then we are ready for my favorite question.

What about the immortal fetus could it be the key?

With no developt fetus you will reach hmm... "sudden deat"

because your soul is released or it dont any more have a

container to reside in?

[Baguakid]

Ok, this must be approached in a logical fashion with a sound theoretical foundation.

 

There must be some facts we should know and follow.

 

Here are some I believe to be true.

 

1. Kidneys must be strong and we need to keep them strong with internal exercises.

2. We need proper food and rest (avoid stress).

3. More Qi and full flow of Qi is essential.

 

 

Feel free to add to this or comment on each.

[Deepbluesea]

It's a confrontational statement...

 

I will try to make a topic about it, and will probably put it in my subforum in the next few days. If I don't, and you're still interested, please remind me in a PM. It will take a bit of time and effort to put together.

Oh, I can't wait to see your argument as to why vegetarianism is unhealthy. I am not, but I eat meat sparingly. There is significant evidence that equates longevity and a balanced vegetarian diet, likewise, there is evidence supporting digestive health and fasting, not to mention the other benefits. Obviously, if you overdo the fasting or just eat potato chips and call yourself a vegetarian you will run into problems.

 

I love a good confrontation!

 

Where is your subforum?

[Aetherous]

I'm not a master debator. So don't get your hopes up that what I have to say will be any good. I don't even have studies to back up my claims. I will just say it really basic here, because the drama is just too intense for what I have to offer...

 

It's well known that meat contains certain nutrients which you have a really hard time getting from a purely vegetarian diet. B12 is the main one, if I remember correctly. I think vegans take brewer's yeast for that...but what an unnatural thing to do! Of course you can supplement, but supplementation isn't the best option. Our bodies aren't so simple, that if you take a certain vitamin pill, you will absorb all of it. Nutrient interactions are very complex, and I really don't understand much of it...but it can be summed up as: if you eat more natural foods, you will be able to absorb nutrients better.

 

Anyway, the fact that with a natural no-meat diet, we end up deficient, kind of goes to show that we are required to eat meat. Of course if someone is opposed to this, then that's their choice and they can just supplement or eat specialized things...

 

I think what you do is best, Deepbluesea, by eating meat sparingly.

[Deepbluesea]

I'm not a master debator. So don't get your hopes up that what I have to say will be any good. I don't even have studies to back up my claims. I will just say it really basic here, because the drama is just too intense for what I have to offer...

 

It's well known that meat contains certain nutrients which you have a really hard time getting from a purely vegetarian diet. B12 is the main one, if I remember correctly. I think vegans take brewer's yeast for that...but what an unnatural thing to do! Of course you can supplement, but supplementation isn't the best option. Our bodies aren't so simple, that if you take a certain vitamin pill, you will absorb all of it. Nutrient interactions are very complex, and I really don't understand much of it...but it can be summed up as: if you eat more natural foods, you will be able to absorb nutrients better.

 

Anyway, the fact that with a natural no-meat diet, we end up deficient, kind of goes to show that we are required to eat meat. Of course if someone is opposed to this, then that's their choice and they can just supplement or eat specialized things...

 

I think what you do is best, Deepbluesea, by eating meat sparingly.

It occurs to me that this is off-subject and I don't have a whole lot of evidence. Haha, I was thinking I might get destroyed by a debate too. B-12 absorption is more of a problem than the B-12 itself, from what I understand. A glass of low-fat milk and an egg will give you 4 times the amount recommended for nursing women (which I am not, but that is the high level on the recommendation chart).

 

I have mentioned a book called Blue Zones before. I think it was a Harvard study that located the communities in the world that lived the longest and wrote about their lifestyles. I am pretty sure that all of them were either completely vegetarian or ate very limited meat, I think one just ate meat once a year.

 

One of my big problems with meat is that it is generally really crappy. I live in the top agricultural county in Virginia -- renowned worldwide for its poultry industry. The "farmers" here along with the agribusiness infrastructure can produce a chicken or turkey, prepare it, and send it to any industrialized country in the world cheaper than that country can produce the same product itself pound for pound. You don't get big fat poultry that grows superfast from feed and water alone. They pump these birds full of anything and everything to grow them huge. The same is true of all meat industries. The organic movement is big around here too, but really it is just a step down from the other meat factories. If you want good meat you have to go out and get it yourself, and that kind of sucks. The best meat you will ever have is off of a yearling doe with a shot between the eyes that drops it immediately. Dress it and skin it right then and there. Now you have some kick-ass meat, how good do you feel about yourself? I lived that way for a while, when I wanted dinner I went out looking for volunteers. I never felt good about it though. Taking the life of an animal really sucks. Ever gig frogs? You can cut off their legs, hell you can cut them in half, throw them over the hillside. You'd be frying them up and still hear the poor bastards barking ... or a rattlesnake still shaking in the frying pan, it takes two people to skin a rattlesnake, even after you cut its head off it will still try to strike you with its headless body. There is no joy in taking life, and its not a necessity. I have said for a long time, "If meat didn't come on a styrofoam trays and you had to go get it yourself, there would be a lot more vegetarians." A walk through the garden plucking the ripe fruit is joyful while gunning a defenseless being down unnecessarily is cowardly and spiritually empty.

 

Sorry for the downer! Wendy's has $1 Double Cheeseburgers I love 'em and they are goood! Just not good for you. I gotta get some shit done so I got a clear body, mind, and spirit for the equinox shakti tonight!

Peace,

Dave

[goldisheavy]

z00se,

 

You raise a good question. Longevity is a complicated subject, and is certainly not a Taoist subject to the extent that Zhuangzi said that a man who was well known to have had short life, had a long life, and someone who was well known to have lived for a long time had a short life. Taoists are the people that dispute the meanings of long and short. How about the example of talking to the skeleton on the road? It's obvious that Taoist founders did not have trivial clinging to life that most people have.

 

Since it's impossible for me to prove this (at least, not without writing 10 books about it), I'll just go ahead and say what I believe:

 

Longevity is a combination of your heart being at peace with its environment and you being at peace with your heart.

 

This is hard to achieve though. Many things are wrong in our environment and any good, honest and conscientious person cannot really be at peace with all the insanity and ill will that's happening on our planet and at the same time have any claim to the highest aspirations of spirituality. Therefore to have a long life, you must be somewhat of an asshole in our world. Good people can have long life in good worlds, but good people have short lives in bad worlds. That's a very simplistic way of putting it. Vice versa, bad people can have a very long life in a bad world, and bad people have short life in a good world. It's like fish. Fish has long life in the water, but short life in the air. On the other hand, a bird can have a long life in the air, but a very short life in the water (even a penguin will suffocate eventually, unlike a fish).

 

Of course Taoists also dispute the meanings of good and bad, and that's fine. I don't want to use these meanings in any kind of objective sense in this post, so I leave it unsaid what exactly is good and what exactly is bad.

 

Men have a deep idea of who they are. If you live life in such a way that does not contradict this idea, and if the environment is still hospitable to you when you live like that, you'll have a good long life. On the other hand, if your idea of yourself is constantly challenged by the environment, you'll probably have a shorter life than you would otherwise. And I say probably because maybe if the environment is too good, you'll get bored and if something is too good it can perhaps be bad. Maybe some amount of imperfection is healthy.

 

So, there are some practices and ways of thinking that help one to smooth out the relationship between one's self-idea and the world, and these practices can help extend life compared to what it otherwise would be. So for example, you can extend what would have been a 40 yrs of life to live 45, or if you were originally destined to die a child, maybe you can live to be 25 before you die. Of course other possibilities exist too, maybe you can extend life form 1 year to 1000, I don't see why that's not possible. But one thing is certain -- if you have any self-idea at all, you will die at some point. Even if you live a billion years, you'll not be immortal. All well-defined things perish. On the other hand, if you are not something well defined, you could live forever, but the "you" from the future may be nothing like "you" from today, and to today's "you" your future "you" may be unrecognizable.

 

In my opinion trying to extend life is a waste of time. It's best to focus on having good life, and if you also happen to live longer than usual, that's fine, and if not, that's fine too. Advertising a practice as a "longevity practice" is morally wrong, because there is no single practice that extends longevity. There are some people out there who would die prematurely if they were to quit smoking, for example. It all depends on the mind. What gives longevity to one man, kills another, so to call one practice as "longevity" practice is misguided. One can outline the principles of longevity though, and then leave the actual practice up to the person, and this has a chance to result in different and appropriate to each person practices.

 

Obviously I'm making a lot of statements here. This is what I think and if you ask me to prove any of this, I won't bother.

Edited September 22, 2009 by goldisheavy

[z00se]

Usually the more out of balance you are, the quicker you figure out there is something wrong with your system and seek the balance. And sometimes even seeking the balance may wear out some organs by boosting the type of energies you need to cultivate.

 

You make some good points but this thing about balance - I know balance and moderation are correct BUT.. i recently read part of the yellow emporer's book... the first part, only part of it that was for free i found on the internet. It says about the natural cycle, and everywhere there is a cycle. The 5 elements are the cycle and the seasons are too. So really nature is not perfectly balanced, it is always circling in nature. According to taoist theory it would be balanced at the end of summer, but it doesn't stay that way (earth element). In our bodies too if the earth element the "centre" the "perfect balance" were to be dominant we would get sick.

 

So then taking all this into consideration we should never seek to be totally balanced ourselves. We should always be alternating our balance in a cycle, the creation cycle. So in a way, we should never BE balanced, just always unbalancing ourselves in a controlled fashion but with equal unbalancing strength in the different directions in the order of the creation cycle, since as the book says if you have some summer weather in autumn, evil wind will be created and bad health will result. You need to unbalance in one direction before you can unbalance in the next direction, but it must be the next direction in sequence in order for it to be in accordance with the tao and to improve health. In the changing of season is when work is done to change your life's course into the next phase, as in nature the wind comes to change and create the next season.

 

I don't have great knowledge in TCM but this is how i see it.

 

There must be some facts we should know and follow.

 

Here are some I believe to be true.

 

1. Kidneys must be strong and we need to keep them strong with internal exercises.

2. We need proper food and rest (avoid stress).

3. More Qi and full flow of Qi is essential.

Feel free to add to this or comment on each.

 

I think constant massive qi flow is not essential but puts pressure on your heart and will cause early death. I think internal qi flow is alright, but when you open up to the universe and bring in it's unlimited chi it's like running ur body on nitro. My body can be tired but i can "feel" awake by bringing alot of qi into my body but i know it's not healthy in the back of my mind.

[goldisheavy]

I think constant massive qi flow is not essential but puts pressure on your heart and will cause early death. I think internal qi flow is alright, but when you open up to the universe and bring in it's unlimited chi it's like running ur body on nitro. My body can be tired but i can "feel" awake by bringing alot of qi into my body but i know it's not healthy in the back of my mind.

 

One's man's poison is another man's medicine.

 

In order to live with the entire universe inside your body, you need a different body. Body is a self-conception together with confirming perceptions. Currently you think you are a certain person with a certain body who lives in a certain manner. It's impossible to expand yourself to include the whole universe and to leave that conception of yourself unchanged. If you try to use your old understanding of who you are while you attempt to embrace universal energies inside yourself, you are right, you will die sooner than average, because this will be taxing to your system.

 

In order for this kind of thing not to be taxing, a person has to change their identity in a deep way. When your identity changes, your body will change too.

Edited September 23, 2009 by goldisheavy

[Deepbluesea]

You make some good points but this thing about balance - I know balance and moderation are correct BUT.. i recently read part of the yellow emporer's book... the first part, only part of it that was for free i found on the internet. It says about the natural cycle, and everywhere there is a cycle. The 5 elements are the cycle and the seasons are too. So really nature is not perfectly balanced, it is always circling in nature. According to taoist theory it would be balanced at the end of summer, but it doesn't stay that way (earth element). In our bodies too if the earth element the "centre" the "perfect balance" were to be dominant we would get sick.

 

So then taking all this into consideration we should never seek to be totally balanced ourselves. We should always be alternating our balance in a cycle, the creation cycle. So in a way, we should never BE balanced, just always unbalancing ourselves in a controlled fashion but with equal unbalancing strength in the different directions in the order of the creation cycle, since as the book says if you have some summer weather in autumn, evil wind will be created and bad health will result. You need to unbalance in one direction before you can unbalance in the next direction, but it must be the next direction in sequence in order for it to be in accordance with the tao and to improve health. In the changing of season is when work is done to change your life's course into the next phase, as in nature the wind comes to change and create the next season.

 

I don't have great knowledge in TCM but this is how i see it.

I think constant massive qi flow is not essential but puts pressure on your heart and will cause early death. I think internal qi flow is alright, but when you open up to the universe and bring in it's unlimited chi it's like running ur body on nitro. My body can be tired but i can "feel" awake by bringing alot of qi into my body but i know it's not healthy in the back of my mind.

Zoose, I complement you on your thoughts and your analysis, I can't find anything specifically wrong with your logic. But it sounds very risk averse. I trade futures for a living among other things, I mitigate my risk by any means possible, I also jump out of airplanes and run down class V rapids. I read a plaque on a wall at a bar once. It was a rhyme that I don't remember, but it was something like: Joe didn't smoke, drink or have fun, when he died he went to the pearly gates and wasn't allowed in. St Peter said he couldn't have died ... only because he had never lived.

 

You have an idea of Qi far more advanced that I could ever perceive. Your thoughts are logical and sound. You may be exactly on the spot, no one can ever tell you what is right for you. My perception is, my friend, don't get lost in your thoughts, longevity is a figment ... eat blueberries and drink green tea 24/7 don't leave your house ... find a very, very safe environment and hunker down. OR LIVE YOUR LIFE LIKE THE NEXT SECOND NEVER EXISTED!

 

I will write this and probably be hammered for it: Longevity is for pussies!

[Baguakid]

I think constant massive qi flow is not essential but puts pressure on your heart and will cause early death. I think internal qi flow is alright, but when you open up to the universe and bring in it's unlimited chi it's like running ur body on nitro. My body can be tired but i can "feel" awake by bringing alot of qi into my body but i know it's not healthy in the back of my mind.

 

 

I never said anything about "Massive" qi flow, I said full, meaning unobstructed. Taoist Master Sher K. Lew is in his 90s now and has very high Qi skills, Ho Nanjie (Tony Ho) is in his 70s and has very High Qi skills.

 

I think your comment is no where close to being on the mark, sorry.

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Zoose, I complement you on your thoughts and your analysis, I can't find anything specifically wrong with your logic. But it sounds very risk averse. I trade futures for a living among other things, I mitigate my risk by any means possible, I also jump out of airplanes and run down class V rapids. I read a plaque on a wall at a bar once. It was a rhyme that I don't remember, but it was something like: Joe didn't smoke, drink or have fun, when he died he went to the pearly gates and wasn't allowed in. St Peter said he couldn't have died ... only because he had never lived.

 

You have an idea of Qi far more advanced that I could ever perceive. Your thoughts are logical and sound. You may be exactly on the spot, no one can ever tell you what is right for you. My perception is, my friend, don't get lost in your thoughts, longevity is a figment ... eat blueberries and drink green tea 24/7 don't leave your house ... find a very, very safe environment and hunker down. OR LIVE YOUR LIFE LIKE THE NEXT SECOND NEVER EXISTED!

 

I will write this and probably be hammered for it: Longevity is for pussies!

 

No, that was awesome! Live your life in moderation...

[Andrei]

You make some good points but this thing about balance - I know balance and moderation are correct BUT.. i recently read part of the yellow emporer's book... the first part, only part of it that was for free i found on the internet. It says about the natural cycle, and everywhere there is a cycle. The 5 elements are the cycle and the seasons are too. So really nature is not perfectly balanced, it is always circling in nature. According to taoist theory it would be balanced at the end of summer, but it doesn't stay that way (earth element). In our bodies too if the earth element the "centre" the "perfect balance" were to be dominant we would get sick.

 

So then taking all this into consideration we should never seek to be totally balanced ourselves. We should always be alternating our balance in a cycle, the creation cycle. So in a way, we should never BE balanced, just always unbalancing ourselves in a controlled fashion but with equal unbalancing strength in the different directions in the order of the creation cycle, since as the book says if you have some summer weather in autumn, evil wind will be created and bad health will result. You need to unbalance in one direction before you can unbalance in the next direction, but it must be the next direction in sequence in order for it to be in accordance with the tao and to improve health. In the changing of season is when work is done to change your life's course into the next phase, as in nature the wind comes to change and create the next season.

 

I don't have great knowledge in TCM but this is how i see it.

I think constant massive qi flow is not essential but puts pressure on your heart and will cause early death. I think internal qi flow is alright, but when you open up to the universe and bring in it's unlimited chi it's like running ur body on nitro. My body can be tired but i can "feel" awake by bringing alot of qi into my body but i know it's not healthy in the back of my mind.

 

 

Yes, exactly, you're right. The balance is a dynamic equilibrium, it is ever changing, is never static, it is like running a four-stroke engine, you need a recharging, a compression, an explosion, a relaxation and again recharging phase. If you can run the engine acording to the environment then yes you have health and longevity, but when the environment change you need to change the vehicle, the principle is the same but sometimes you need propellers, sometime you need wings or sails, or jets.

 

Currently you think you are a certain person with a certain body who lives in a certain manner. It's impossible to expand yourself to include the whole universe and to leave that conception of yourself unchanged.

 

GIH have a good point here, the body is just a vehicle that carry "you" in this life as we define it between "birth" and "death" and the longevity gives the measure of timespan between the events of "birth" and "death". I tend to prefer the idea of being a traveller that changes the vehicles according to the needs of the travel and also changes the strategy of the travel. Because I dont believe "death" is the end of the travel.

[DaoChild]

I don't know many masters but have recently come to learn that several inventors of supposedly "Superb systems" which claim Longevity as one of their goals have lived MUCH shorter-than-average lives.

considering....

Whether they died from natural or un-natural causes i think is irrelivent because the Tao is all encompassing and is responsible for life and death among everything else. According to my understanding, those who live in accordance with the Tao should have longevity.

 

I think the main concern is that these are the INVENTORS of these systems, and we are trying to replicate THEIR results - living 16+ years less than average!!

 

There could be other issues such as they were sick to begin with and thats why they began cultivation, or by trying to spread their system by writing books and teaching they wore themselves out etc.

 

Does anyone know of any systems where their inventors actually lived a long time? I practice Mantak Chias method and he is 64 according to his birth year in his books, but i must admit even in the recent videos he's looking much older than he did before, even though he seems he still has vitality.

 

Don't listen to spiritual mumbo jumbo and neglect your physical body.

 

Those people died young (Cough, like MONKS, cough) because they don't maintain their physical flesh! Is the story of Bodhidharma and the sickly monks familiar? You need exercise and a proper diet to live long, end of story. You can add Qigong from there.