Qigong and energy work and yoga and stuff shorten your life span

[Teddy]

Glenn Morris (KAP) died age 62

Wang Xiang Zhai (founder of yiquan/da cheng chuan) died age 78

Yang Chengfu (yang tai chi) died age 53

Swami Vishnudevananda (sivananda yoga) died age 66

Yao Zongxun died 67

 

This list could go on and on. Whenever I learn of a famous practitioner I get interested, look them up and find that they died at a young age.

 

Now please understand. I do not think think being good at energy work necessarily means that you are going to live longer than most people. It would be reasonable to expect these guys to die at a normal age.

 

...however, this is not what the evidence shows. The evidence clearly shows that practicing these arts dramatically reduces your life span.

 

I would love to find out that I am wrong about this.

[King Kabalabhati]

Mantak Chia is still alive.. Oh yeah, but he's a fake so he'll probably live to be 110

 

My grandmother lived to over 90 years. The last 15 were shadowed by constant illness. Also my neighbor just died at 89 if I remember correctly. Both his body and mind were quite degenerated and crumbling by the time he took his last breath.

 

Longevity is one thing, health is another thing, though the'res a correlatiion between them for sure.

 

One thing about teachers and healers is that they're willingly giving a LOT of their energy to their students and patients, often working very long days and possibly neglecting themselves while at it, some of them probably do so quite knowingly. Many of them may realise that it's not the time they spend on earth but the virtue they fill their life with that counts. Some of them seem to get confused with their position and possibly perish because of issues with power and vanity.

 

I'd like to see statistics about "ordinary" qigong practisioner's lifespans.. Could be a different story.

[sheng zhen]

I did a quick pubmed search and found this. The present state of research on qigong does at least suggest that it can extent lifespan.

 

1: Hu Li Za Zhi. 2009 Feb;56(1):73-8.Links[scientific and holistic therapy perspectives on Qigong practice for elders with cardiovascular disease risk factors]

[Article in Chinese]

 

 

Hung HM, Chen KM.

Institute of Allied Health Sciences, College of Medicine, National Cheng Kung University, Kaohsiung, Taiwan, ROC.

 

The ratio of older adults with chronic illnesses has increased due to increased average life spans. The incidence of cardiovascular diseases among older adults has reached 33.26%, becoming the leading chronic disease and second most significant cause of mortality among older adults. Statistics show that the largest proportion of expenditures on prescription pharmaceuticals in the National Health Insurance goes toward the treatment of cardiovascular diseases. In addition, complications resulting from cardiovascular diseases result in burdens of care that impact seriously on the individual, their family, and society. Studies have supported physical activity as the most important behavior in reducing cardiovascular disease risk factors. Qigong, a traditional Chinese therapeutic activity, uses gentle movements of extremities and control of breathing to improve health, enhance vitality and enable bodies, emotion, and spirit to reach optimal performance. Evidence-based research supports the argument that Qigong improves cardiovascular-respiratory function and lipid profile, decreases blood sugar, and relieves anxiety and depression. We suggest developing a safe, convenient, and simple Qigong exercise regimen for older adults at higher risk of cardiovascular diseases to extend their life expectancy and quality of life.

Edited September 22, 2009 by sheng zhen

[宁]

that's why for us practicing health is more important than anything...

but health is practically the last thing that a being that wants to 'ascend to the stars' would think about...

 

how many times didn't i read replies like:

'oh that's not high level, that yelds minor benefits alone, such as health and longevity and stuff'

 

the only people that don't care much for the body health and longevity are buddhists, and not even all of them.

for a daoist, health is the first sign that his practice goes well.

 

but you know how it is, when you're young and eager, health is like:

'wha?.. just health? maan, this will just not do!'

 

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Interesting points! I would like to Bump this!

[Gerard]

H.O.R.S.E.S.H.I.T.

 

Qigong practice will result in:

 

1. Influence on the molecular properties of DNA and RNA, and changing molecular structures.

 

2. Alteration of brainwave patterns

 

3. Synchronization and coherence of the hemispheres of the brain

 

4. Regeneration of neurons

 

5. Natural regulation of the limbic system and areas related to generation and storage of emotions

 

6. Control of the shift between the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system

 

7. Activation of brain areas with unknown functions

 

8. Massage of the brain and cerebellum

 

9. Stimulation of the thalamus, hypothalamus, pineal and pituitary glands to release unique secretion of hormones

 

10. Opening of the sinuses and stimulation of the olfactory bulb

 

11. Improvement of eye sight

 

12. Reactivation of major nerve plexus

 

13. Control of mental, emotional and consciousness states

 

14. Development of special functions of the body mind psyche spirit and soul

 

15. Functions of the Nervous and Endocrine Systems are improved

 

16. Activation of the natural micro movements of the cranial sutures

 

17. Circulation of the cerebrum-spinal fluid in the medulla oblongata and the brain

 

18. Accession of each vertebra of the spine

 

19. Re-establishment of the original independency of each vertebra

 

20. Decompression of the inter-vertebral discs

 

21. Lengthening and balancing of the vertebral muscles and spine muscles

 

22. Self treatment and rehabilitation of arthrosis, arthritis and rheumatism

 

23. Regeneration of the marrow and bones

 

24. Joint mobility, regeneration of cartilage, decalcification

 

25. Loosening and opening of the joints of the limbs

 

26. Regaining of full motion and flexibility

 

27. Optimization of the exchange of mass-matter/energy/information on the cellular level

 

28. Regeneration on the cellular level

 

29. Lymphatic systems and nodes are cleansed, detoxified and brought to full working capacity

 

30. Functions of the Circulatory and Lymphatic Systems are improved

 

31. Positive influence on a series of nerves that are directly connected to the heart regulation of arrhythmias and cardiac weakness with optimization and expansion of cardiac output and input

 

32. The blood is enriched, revitalized, cleansed and purified

 

33. Arteries and veins are cleansed, elasticized and strengthened

 

34. Improvement of peripheral blood circulation

 

35. Circulation increases and smoothens becoming fully optimized

 

36. Changes in blood biochemistry

 

37. Change in hormone levels

 

38. Autotherapy for chronic and autoimmune disease

 

39. Strengthening of the immune system

 

40. Rehabilitation and maintenance of the immune system

 

41. Oxygenation reaches the utmost fulfillment of its purpose

 

42. Changes in the skin's electric resistance

 

43. Creation of high coherence and negentropic fields

 

44. Control of the metabolism of the body-mind system

 

 

This is the product of research conducted in many leading Universities in China.

 

 

Edited:

 

I forgot about this vid; tell this man that he should give up the timeless and universal Daoist art of Bagua because it will shorten his life span:

 

 

 

And tell this other Chinese warrior to give up Tai Chi Chuan:

 

http://en.epochtimes.com/news/7-9-9/59524.html

 

 

And this hermit leave his mountain and start eating MacDonald's and get a 9-5 job

 

Edited September 22, 2009 by durkhrod chogori

[everseeking]

You (Teddy) are comparing apples and oranges so to speak. This discussion will probably lead nowhere. Unless someone can provide proof that these practices were the cause of death of these people, and somehow provide evidence that links their death's to their respective energy practices, then you have no basis for your statements.

 

Let me put it another way, man..

 

You have no way of knowing ho long they would die if they had not practiced these 'energy; systems or whatever you wish to call them.

 

It can only be stated that their age at death is above or below some national average. But for all we know, they may have all died at age 30 without practicing their arts. Or perhaps they would all have lived to be 120 had they not practiced them.

 

We (society) can find more subjective evidence of their quality of life though, from those who knew them.

 

When its your time to go, its your time to go.

 

Quick story--a true one.

 

A guy tries to kill himself, so he puts the barrel of a 22 calibre in his mouth and pulls the trigger. The bullet lodges in the roof of hi mouth. He shoots a few more times, and gives up on that. Then he gets a knife, and slashes both his wrists. He passes out and falls face down, landing in his arms, and effectively stopping the bleeding. Someone finds him, and he winds up in the hospital. That really happened.

[de_paradise]

Oh well. Guess we are goners. Tsk. It was a nice life. *cue violins

[Ya Mu]

H.O.R.S.E.S.H.I.T.

 

Qigong practice will result in:

 

1. Influence on the molecular properties of DNA and RNA, and changing molecular structures.

 

2. Alteration of brainwave patterns

 

3. Synchronization and coherence of the hemispheres of the brain

 

4. Regeneration of neurons

 

5. Natural regulation of the limbic system and areas related to generation and storage of emotions

 

6. Control of the shift between the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system

 

7. Activation of brain areas with unknown functions

 

8. Massage of the brain and cerebellum

 

9. Stimulation of the thalamus, hypothalamus, pineal and pituitary glands to release unique secretion of hormones

 

10. Opening of the sinuses and stimulation of the olfactory bulb

 

11. Improvement of eye sight

 

12. Reactivation of major nerve plexus

 

13. Control of mental, emotional and consciousness states

 

14. Development of special functions of the body mind psyche spirit and soul

 

15. Functions of the Nervous and Endocrine Systems are improved

 

16. Activation of the natural micro movements of the cranial sutures

 

17. Circulation of the cerebrum-spinal fluid in the medulla oblongata and the brain

 

18. Accession of each vertebra of the spine

 

19. Re-establishment of the original independency of each vertebra

 

20. Decompression of the inter-vertebral discs

 

21. Lengthening and balancing of the vertebral muscles and spine muscles

 

22. Self treatment and rehabilitation of arthrosis, arthritis and rheumatism

 

23. Regeneration of the marrow and bones

 

24. Joint mobility, regeneration of cartilage, decalcification

 

25. Loosening and opening of the joints of the limbs

 

26. Regaining of full motion and flexibility

 

27. Optimization of the exchange of mass-matter/energy/information on the cellular level

 

28. Regeneration on the cellular level

 

29. Lymphatic systems and nodes are cleansed, detoxified and brought to full working capacity

 

30. Functions of the Circulatory and Lymphatic Systems are improved

 

31. Positive influence on a series of nerves that are directly connected to the heart regulation of arrhythmias and cardiac weakness with optimization and expansion of cardiac output and input

 

32. The blood is enriched, revitalized, cleansed and purified

 

33. Arteries and veins are cleansed, elasticized and strengthened

 

34. Improvement of peripheral blood circulation

 

35. Circulation increases and smoothens becoming fully optimized

 

36. Changes in blood biochemistry

 

37. Change in hormone levels

 

38. Autotherapy for chronic and autoimmune disease

 

39. Strengthening of the immune system

 

40. Rehabilitation and maintenance of the immune system

 

41. Oxygenation reaches the utmost fulfillment of its purpose

 

42. Changes in the skin's electric resistance

 

43. Creation of high coherence and negentropic fields

 

44. Control of the metabolism of the body-mind system

This is the product of research conducted in many leading Universities in China.

 

Just wanted to repeat this - very good!

 

...

One thing about teachers and healers is that they're willingly giving a LOT of their energy to their students and patients, often working very long days and possibly neglecting themselves while at it, some of them probably do so quite knowingly. Many of them may realise that it's not the time they spend on earth but the virtue they fill their life with that counts. Some of them seem to get confused with their position and possibly perish because of issues with power and vanity.

 

I guess everything depends on a soul's destiny. If a person gets to the point in energy development where he can help others, then he has a choice, do it or not. If he chooses to use this energy to help others it is because of compassion and a true desire to make a difference. It is very easy to allow one's self to be overloaded in trying to help. Where concern for others outweighs concern for the self.

 

I actually tell my students that wish to learn qigong healing to truly examine the reasons they wish to learn it. I try to talk most of them out of learning it. I have never said that the practicing energy healer will have utmost longevity. But it is a path for self-development utilizing compassion, and it is a needed thing in our society. This doesn't necessarily mean said healer will die young or old. If said healer truly pays attention to BALANCE then he can, depending on genetics, life style, etc, live as long as any other practitioner. What I am saying is that, due to compassion and intense desire to help others, it is very easy to not achieve this balance. Another part of this, is, of course, that some systems promote energy myths that will help the healer to die young if they practice them. Bottom line, if anyone wishes to utilize energy for healing they dang well should know what they are getting into and what they are doing.

[Dainin]

The logic of your conclusion is unsound. You are generalizing from a small sample.

 

Here is another small sample, based on one yoga teacher and some of his students:

 

T. Krishamacharya (the teacher): deceased at age 100

 

His students:

 

B.K.S. Iyengar (age 90, still alive)

 

K. Pattabhi Jois (deceased at age 93)

 

Indra Devi (deceased at age 102)

 

 

Each of the students became teachers and developed their own distinct style of yoga,

they were not all doing the same thing. Nor was it genetics, Indra Devi was Argentinian

not Indian.

 

I'm sure other people could provide similar lists of very long lived IMA and qigong

masters.

 

In either case, the small sample can't be generalized to the general population of

practitioners of these arts. It would take a properly conducted research study with a

control group to draw any conclusion about this. A more important question in my

opinion is how is the quality of life for practitioners vs non-practitioners.

 

Good luck...

[Trunk]

...however, this is not what the evidence shows. The evidence clearly shows that practicing these arts dramatically reduces your life span.

I'll be devil's advocate on this one.

 

For life-long "exploration of consciousness" devotees, the path often gets wild. Often complete authentic training is not available at all the right times and mistakes are made. Prices are paid in health, and in many other ways. Even if a person is on the enlightenment path and does all the right things, it's a tremendous amount of work and is often rough on the body. A lot of these dangers apply even if you're going for the "profound health" path (not necesarily enlightenment).

 

There are personality types that aren't much interested in philosophy, and are very practical down-to-earth. My observation is that these kinds of people are quite ruggedly healthy. Philosophy and personal exploration takes a lot of work; there is wear & tear.

 

But I think that people who are really into personal exploration don't actually get a choice.

 

How's that for optimistic?

 

Trunk

[EagleShen]

I basically agree you can't really draw much conclusion, and i'm sure for every short lived master you can pull out a long lived one, eg i studied with Prof Lun Wong here in Melbourne, he's about 90 now and can still take out anyone on the martial arts mat, he smokes like a chimney and is the happiest and most contented person i've ever met. His main philosophical statement is: 'don't worry'.

 

Anyway, i'm digressing, i actually wanted to raise the point that a lot of high profile energy workers have been motivated to embrace the healing arts so intensely as they had some kind of a debilitating illness as a child, which they overcame by practising intensely X practice, but you'd think surely this would influence their life span. Would be interesting to see if this is the case for any of those you've listed.

 

I know my life and consciousness is of a far higher quality when i'm practising solidly, and that's what interests me more than anything.

[33865_1494798762]

Glenn Morris (KAP) died age 62

Wang Xiang Zhai (founder of yiquan/da cheng chuan) died age 78

Yang Chengfu (yang tai chi) died age 53

Swami Vishnudevananda (sivananda yoga) died age 66

Yao Zongxun died 67

 

This list could go on and on. Whenever I learn of a famous practitioner I get interested, look them up and find that they died at a young age.

 

Now please understand. I do not think think being good at energy work necessarily means that you are going to live longer than most people. It would be reasonable to expect these guys to die at a normal age.

 

...however, this is not what the evidence shows. The evidence clearly shows that practicing these arts dramatically reduces your life span.

 

I would love to find out that I am wrong about this.

 

Consciousness is so clean that anything we do to purify it will make it dirty.

I suggest the guys you mention had reasons to practise qi kung based on ideas of their body and not the body it self, and that's why they destroyed their bodies so effectively. Thoughts are draining the body, so actions based on idea will be postponing natural expression of life.

 

Only when we are dead we benefit from yoga and gain life (!) (sorry - for the lack of terms?

These guys were proff. Yes? They must have known about this so, in fact they were probably more interested in the mind (being dead) improving this toolkit (of perception) instead of just being alive and maybe that way realising that all life expression is spontaneous, so in fact no mind will ever realise life (it's to slow), we are left alone with out any clue what so ever and only to give up - surrender and accept the facts.

 

They probably wanted to perfect the perfected, the mind (?) even further, never realising that mind already where perfect in the first place and that the perfected is not of this world.

When we lie we forget how to recognise our self in the rest of the entire world, the surroundings will be perceived as hostile and alien to the lyer. No yoga for any reason in the world can balance that up, no efforts will take us there - As I already pointed out only surrender will, and second to non will actually make it and surrender. The problem is to do so you need to be with out an alternative, no one "do" surrender if possible, we will question it and look for further reasons.

Edited September 24, 2009 by Guest

[sheng zhen]

Qigong practice will result in:

I had a strange feeling I have seen this list before: http://www.traditionaltao.com/index.html/h...te-section/ID/2

[markern]

[Mal]

that's why for us practicing health is more important than anything...

but health is practically the last thing that a being that wants to 'ascend to the stars' would think about...

 

how many times didn't i read replies like:

'oh that's not high level, that yelds minor benefits alone, such as health and longevity and stuff'

 

the only people that don't care much for the body health and longevity are buddhists, and not even all of them.

for a daoist, health is the first sign that his practice goes well.

 

but you know how it is, when you're young and eager, health is like:

'wha?.. just health? maan, this will just not do!'

 

 

haha yes I use to think that about health too. Cool "powers" are so much more appealing until you realise you just want to get out of bed without pain in the morning

[sasblamthanb]

Teddy,

 

Another way to look at it though is - Each of the practioners in your list may have actually extended their lives by the work... or at least improved the health and quality of their most likely limited to begin with lifespans. Many from the 'shallow end of the gene pool' could help themselves immensely by a consistent, matched to the individual body, practice.

 

obx

[Sloppy Zhang]

haha yes I use to think that about health too. Cool "powers" are so much more appealing until you realise you just want to get out of bed without pain in the morning

 

I want cool powers.

 

As for age of the practitioners: meh.

[gendao]

Good question. I've noticed this about a number of Taijiquan style founders, who died relatively young. Although others also lived quite long..

 

And don't forget about:

Grandmaster Choa Kok Sui, founder of Pranic Healing, who died of pneumonia at age 55 & one of his teachers, Sahajanada, who died of cancer at age 48.

 

Of course, I also know qigong healers who have retarded aging and are living long and very robustly.

 

So, given these mixed results, I think there's simply other variables and factors at play here. For example, maybe some of these healers hadn't learned to transmute sick qi yet? Or martial artists wasted too much qi doing fajings or sex? Or other things not so directly related to qigong?

 

It may be that qigong can amplify things - as it seems that a number of qigong "masters" may end up with unusually short or long lives. This may imply that it could have a powerful effect on lifespan and health...albeit it could conceivably be one way or the other, depending on your situation and practice, I presume?

[ralis]

At one time (16 yrs. ago) I was able to send healing energy (heat) at a distance. At the time I was involved with a group of Japanese healers from a tradition called Johrei. For 2 yrs. everything felt great. Then I became very sick from too much energy and nearly lost my life! The group was intent on convincing me that I was purifying some karmic baggage. Their arguments were BS!!

 

Rather than elaborating on details, energy can cause a great deal of harm, even death! I am lucky to be alive today.

 

Some of these master healers may pass on from too much energy being channeled through a body that ultimately can't handle the voltage.

 

ralis

Edited September 22, 2009 by ralis

[Baguakid]

There's a way to heal, help others while maintaining your own health and well being.. I've seen this once and the potential in another.

 

That is, to boost your own qi level to such an extent that people close to you will benefit. I've only seen one person in my entire life and all that Master did was Standing Meditation.

[fiveelementtao]

Excellent Thread! Energy techniques CAN kill you. I personally have experienced teachers who were very powerful, but one thing they lacked was grounding and humility. Let's be honest, alot of us are energy and power junkies.

 

It is also a well know fact among internal martial artists that those practitioners who focus on power and lack humility (which includes alot of high level masters) will overheat their hearts and die sometime after 55.

 

Remember the context of alot of these disciplines was done originally in monasteries or as hermits. Being a world renowned energy teacher is not the norm. In previous times, energy masters had no more than two students. One to carry on the tradition and a second one in case the first one died. Part of the training meant that one did not show their powers to the outside world. One reason for this was to protect their life from the dangers of ego... When a person has real energy powers, ego can kill... Many modern (western) teachers have not learned this and as a result, they die young....

 

Fame, money and power have destroyed many peoples' health. My experience is that when one does energy work, whatever emotional and mental influences you have in your life are magnified. So, if ego and greed creep in there, the negative effects are multiplied.

 

This is why I have been spending my recent training and investigation into incorporating more fundamentals and grounding energy into my practice and teaching.

[Baguakid]

FiveElement,

 

Totally agree. I've met my share of EGOCENTRIC Masters, both Chinese and American. I agree with your Grounding and Humility post.

[Old Man Contradiction]

according to these statistics from the Department of Health and Human Services, National Center for Health Statistics....

 

Wang Xiangzhai nearly doubled his life expectancy for the people born when he was.

Dr. Glen Morris died around the same age he was expected to.

 

And everyone else on your list exceeded the life expectancy for the era that they lived in. (note that these stats are for the United States, so that makes this even more impressive considering the Swami from India)

You have to realize that life expectancy has almost doubled in the last century.

Edited September 22, 2009 by Old Man Contradiction

[ralis]

Great discussion here! Thanks for the thoughts on grounding! I guess we all learn the hard way.

 

BTW, through perseverance, I did get my health back. It was a lot of work and took many years.

 

 

ralis