Is meditation necessary for self realization?

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

When Adyashanti says it is already within me, I immediately recognize that undercurrent the precedes thought forms. Usually I'll stay there for a while. In this way... it actually does help me.

 

 

You can do that??? I guess I just speak from my view and as you have just taught me I have no idea 'how' other people feel or think or perceive, I guess it's just a personal irritation on my part.

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

Sorry, don't mean to sound like a cryptic guru or something; but who is it that is trying to break the ego down.

 

I'm not trying to say don't meditate. But if you do it in that goal oriented fashion, then it's just the ego looking for ego enhancing results. Sneaky little bastard that ego. Gotta watch him all the time. Which possibly moves us to the subject of mindfulness.

 

 

Ya, your right, he is a sneaky little bastard.... thats why I keep trying to break him down, but if I keep trying he may keep winning....oops....winning...... hmmmm. But if I don't try or do, then I will never get to experience truth, as in the brain/ego being an inhibitor that creates the veil that creates the illusion of this world. I can say that the meditative process does lead to the gradual breaking down of that illusion and other perceptions opening up. But you are right..... circles within circles.

 

And Kate, I'm rather partial to your door also. It's a very popular door.

[~jK~]

Sorry, don't mean to sound like a cryptic guru or something; but who is it that is trying to break the ego down.

I'm not trying to say don't meditate. But if you do it in that goal oriented fashion, then it's just the ego looking for ego enhancing results. Sneaky little bastard that ego. Gotta watch him all the time. Which possibly moves us to the subject of mindfulness.

If you eliminate all of the possibilities that you might worry about - what do you have?

Meditation, to a large extent, is based on trial and error - to try and find what works for you.

Everything will not work every time as - a constant of the Tao is that nothing is pure - nothing.

Keep in mind that each failure is only a step foward as you have learned something that did not work.

One of my styles of meditation is working with astral projection (OBE) and even as I have practiced it 20 years-

I still do not get out every time - but when I do - they are reall ball buster of a learning and growing experiences.

***

Mindfulness is a critter that must be mastered before any progress can be made. There are steps.

The main one being focus. A beginners stage of focus can be learned most easily through learning Kundalini Yoga at the same time.

This book has the best/easiest way of learning it that I've seen - the author says a lot with a few easy words that do not confuse. The Five Tibetans: Five Dynamic Exercises for Health, Energy, and Personal Power

by Christopher S. Kilham

[mat black]

Edited September 25, 2009 by mat black

[Lucky7Strikes]

No one becomes a Buddha, a sage, an immortal, etc. by accident.

 

They may have certain realizations, attain certain states, but all in all these accidental events can as well lead the person further into delusion. They become trapped in the event's incomprehensible power.

[Vajrahridaya]

No one becomes a Buddha, a sage, an immortal, etc. by accident.

 

They may have certain realizations, attain certain states, but all in all these accidental events can as well lead the person further into delusion. They become trapped in the event's incomprehensible power.

 

Yes, it takes a deep and humble discernment. That's for sure!! As if I knew...

[JustARandomPanda]

Sorry, don't mean to sound like a cryptic guru or something; but who is it that is trying to break the ego down.

 

I'm not trying to say don't meditate. But if you do it in that goal oriented fashion, then it's just the ego looking for ego enhancing results. Sneaky little bastard that ego. Gotta watch him all the time. Which possibly moves us to the subject of mindfulness.

I find advice like this to be both helpful and frustrating at the exact same time. How else is one to achieve if one doesn't work toward it? Not desiring to break down Ego is the End Point. If I could start off at the End Point I wouldn't need to meditate at all.

 

My parents don't meditate at all. And they get the results...Ego continuing...with all that entails.

 

Whenever I see advice like this I always make it a point to go watch the following YouTube vid.

 

 

Enlightenment: A Response to Eckhart Tolle by a Himalayan Enlightened Yogi

[de_paradise]

Meditation is the best technology to acheive fast alchemy changes in your body (s).

 

I've heard so many rationalizations and excuses and explanations to explain why they dont meditate. There's an endless supply. EX. God told them not to. Bad for lifespan. Zen says not to.

 

I simply think these people are ignorant. Such a pity.

Edited September 25, 2009 by de_paradise

[Old Man Contradiction]

I was just reading The Ultimate Medicine as prescribed by Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, in which he says that some people don't need meditation to go further, and some people do. I need meditation to dust off a little. Maybe more.

Edited September 25, 2009 by Old Man Contradiction

[Eviander]

A better question:

 

Is there anything to even realize except for the problems you create while trying to find realization?

[Old Man Contradiction]

A better question:

 

Is there anything to even realize except for the problems you create while trying to find realization?

 

We speak of different topics. Your question is aimed at egos who think realization is going to be found in the future and by sadhana.

 

My question is aimed at people who can already see the illusion inherent in all problems, but still get entranced and pulled in by egoic thought forms.

[Eviander]

We speak of different topics. Your question is aimed at egos who think realization is going to be found in the future and by sadhana.

 

My question is aimed at people who can already see the illusion inherent in all problems, but still get entranced and pulled in by egoic thought forms.

 

Well said. In this light I do believe meditation is a good way to quite the mind. I actually downloaded some binaural tracks to aid me in such, which helps the brain access gamma states of consciousness quicker.

[Old Man Contradiction]

zat iz cool

[Zhuo Ming-Dao]

Well said. In this light I do believe meditation is a good way to quite the mind. I actually downloaded some binaural tracks to aid me in such, which helps the brain access gamma states of consciousness quicker.

 

Binaural beat programs are wonderful and highly effective while you are using them, but it is very easy to develop a dependency on them for achieving altered states of consciousness since they do nothing for building up the kind of discipline that is required to get there normally or to get to even more advanced states. So use them, but just keep that in mind. Eventually you will hit a brick wall and will need to go back to square one to build up your natural access-concentration without the aid. And believe me, it can be disappointing when you have to just sit with nothing happening for several months in basic training, while knowing that a program could shift you into a jhana in a few minutes.

[Birch]

I suspect binaurals are just as compelling as spirals, singing bowls and ok sex;-) (we can put that in a different thread)

 

I suspect a very effective path (towards self-realization) might be one of suffering

 

Except that I know that the word translation isn't the original term so maybe our -ist friends can properly translate;-)

[Ya Mu]

Binaural beat programs are wonderful and highly effective while you are using them, but it is very easy to develop a dependency on them for achieving altered states of consciousness since they do nothing for building up the kind of discipline that is required to get there normally or to get to even more advanced states. So use them, but just keep that in mind. Eventually you will hit a brick wall and will need to go back to square one to build up your natural access-concentration without the aid. And believe me, it can be disappointing when you have to just sit with nothing happening for several months in basic training, while knowing that a program could shift you into a jhana in a few minutes.

 

Interesting that someone has finally said this.

I agree!

[~jK~]

Amazing at the amount of crutches used by so many that seem not able to find their own natural legs.

 

The way to acquire a clear mind & total focus.

 

How many of us have never cleaned our mind...

Dreams are subconscious methods of our mind trying to understand conscious realities.

The problem with dreams is that they do not stop replaying until we understand them.

This is also a prime cause of nervous breakdowns. To meditate we must go beyond this phase.

For millions of years our mind has existed in a natural environment. Civilization today is any but natural.

 

Problems in meditating come from when these dreams begin to replay as we try to meditate.

 

The method:

 

To eliminate these problems we need to do 2 things.

First make a mental trash receptacle in a corner of your mind.

Second as these dreams pop up - think of them as either needed to think about - or trash.

Throw the trash into the trash receptacle and think (meditate) on the other dreams until you understand them.

A main key in understanding this process is to know that dreams are often in a language of your mind's symbolism.

Taoists call this above method bathing as it is done at 6AM and 6PM - the same as a shower.

Most dreams come from Guilt, Hopes, Desires, and misunderstandings.

 

I learned the above when studying astral projection which is done by first mastering the Savasana. This process is done by first assuming the corpse pose

Then mentally relax each and every muscle in your body beginning with the toes and work upward. to the top of your head -not forgetting your back, arms, hands and face. Once your entire body is relaxed, imagine a red dot where your 3rd eye is located and focus on this until you can think of - nothing else for a minimum of 15 minutes.

As dreams come then use the above process.

Once you can achieve 15 minutes of clarity - 8 hours is easy.

Now for the bad news: the above is known as the "100 day process."

Good luck as this will separate the children from those with masters ability.

 

If you have trouble concentrating - or wanting to sleep - try these exercises first before beginning with the corpse pose:

The groin stretch releases sexual energy so that it balances the energy of the body tp prevent distractions from forming. (<=a major problem of mine !) - it will also help prevent premature ejaculation.

 

The other exercise was taught to me as the "cleansing breath" exercise where the only information I can find on it is in: "The Five Tibetians" pages 57, 58 & 59 where it is known as the Sixth Tibetan and has excellent pictures. In Hindi this exercise is called "Uddiyana Banda: Pelvic Contraction" and is also used as an internal organ massage.

This will cleanse you of old breath and renew the oxygen as it opens the lungs with new air.

Edited September 27, 2009 by ~jK~

[Eviander]

Binaural beat programs are wonderful and highly effective while you are using them, but it is very easy to develop a dependency on them for achieving altered states of consciousness since they do nothing for building up the kind of discipline that is required to get there normally or to get to even more advanced states. So use them, but just keep that in mind. Eventually you will hit a brick wall and will need to go back to square one to build up your natural access-concentration without the aid. And believe me, it can be disappointing when you have to just sit with nothing happening for several months in basic training, while knowing that a program could shift you into a jhana in a few minutes.

 

Yes I am aware of this.

 

I'm using them as a stepping stone though..

 

I believe this will increase my concentration for naked meditations.