democracy in China ? / Chinese History

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

You guys are a joke.

 

You really need to travel to see how ignorant you are.

 

 

I live in mainland China and have done for many years.

[~jK~]

I live in mainland China and have done for many years.

Shuuuure you do ... that is why you can't write even the character over the birds head correctly...

[~jK~]

I can't stand it any longer - I'll give you a glimpse of your ignorance - although I doubt that you can understand it:

 

1: Communism is mainly an economic system - To the same degree that Capitalism is.

 

Through the Communist economic system the Chinese people have been able to recover from 250+ years of civil war, foreign occupation and war and forced opium addiction in roughly 30 years.

Hong Kong just won it's freedom back, from England, in 1997.

 

England as the one that forced the opium addiction on the Chinese people is known internationally as the world's first Narco state. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars

 

The way that Communism works: The government uses the money of the people to buy and build things like the MTR (Mass Trainsist System) and then puts it out to the public for sale to the people. As it is a public utility - It is a guaranteed income source. Here is the webpage: http://www.mtr.com.hk/eng/homepage/cust_index.html

It is an Electric (non polluting) state of the art train that arrives about every 3 to 5 minutes at most stations . The benefits continue to return to the people by the government working to keep the travel prices low. I ride almost daily for about 45 minutes each way for about $1.25 - air conditioned.

 

But it doesn't end here - there is also the Above ground - KCR (Kowloon-Canton Railway) that connects China to Hong Kong. that also is Electric and runs about every 3 to 5 minuites and is air conditioned.

The KCR is also linked to the MTR for efficency http://www.hong-kong-travel.org/MTRKCR.asp

 

There is also the bus system that runs about every 9 to 15 minutes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_services_in_Hong_Kong

And Mini Bus system: http://www.hong-kong-travel.org/Buses.asp

that -today-is largely owned by the drivers.

and of course there is the taxis http://www.hong-kong-travel.org/Taxis.asp

 

So now you can begin to see how the Communist system works.

 

Actually in 2012 Hong Kong is going to vote to have USA style of Democracy or not. Truthfully I think most people are very satisfied with the present system.

 

I almost forgot - the Airport system was built by the Government too... http://www.hongkongairport.com/eng/media/p...-terminals.html

 

Here is the one the British built - I came into Hong Kong this way:

Then I lived in Kowloon City for 2 years (the only foreigner)

And watched this - it has actual video of the street that I lived on:

Edited September 27, 2009 by ~jK~

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

Shuuuure you do ... that is why you can't write even the character over the birds head correctly...

 

Sigh, and just why would I write it when I can download a ready made pic, and by the way it has been stretched sideways. also I did not personally paint the phoenix either, however in your opinion i perhaps should have. The character is correct. The upper is 'ren' the lower 'xin' blade/heart respectively. To endure. If you would like to come to the mainland you will find many other characters stylized in many other ways too. Then again you have 'traveled' around the mainland I'm sure you must know that.

 

I don't really know what further point you are trying to make with your ongoing series of so called explanation of communism, but there is nothing I have said above that I don't stand by and also that the people outside my front door wouldn't/haven't agreed with me upon those points(mainland Chinese just in case there's any doubt). If you disagree I feel quite sad that, if in fact you are Hong Kong Chinese, you don't really know the true state of things here on the mainland. I suggest you come to live here, I really do.

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

terminals.html]http://www.hongkongairport.com/eng/media/p...-terminals.html[/url]

 

Here is the one the British built - I came into Hong Kong this way:

Then I lived in Kowloon City for 2 years (the only foreigner)

 

 

oh.......I'm so sorry.....your not Chinese! Actually there is no Kowloon city I'm afraid, it's called Kowloon, an area, no one calls it Kowloon city, they didn't before and they don't now. Tut tut, we really should get our facts straight, and if you had ever been to Hong Kong you would know how ridiculous it is to say you lived there as the 'only' foreigner, it was a British colony.....it's always been swarming with them! Go look for yourself! You will be happy to know though that your beloved Hong Kong is doing just fine, perhaps one day you may just make it there. Keep saving those cents.

 

Not all the information in the world can be simply gleaned from the internet I'm afraid.

[Yoda]

wasn't the HK airport mostly built by HK before the reunification and allowed to finish by the Chinese gov't?

 

Anyways... just finished watching the youtube first emperor of China show... egads... rough chap!

 

But is interesting to see that right after the totalitarian Qin dynasty, the more enlightened and ethical Han dynasty pops up... and the Qin didn't last overly long either.

 

Perhaps that can be a model for the Maoist dynasty... a little totalitarian hyper discipline in the short term might have a tonic effect and lay the ground work for a kinder, gentler situation after a 100 year run?

 

Measured in terms of % Chinese citizens killed by the government, it sounds like the big problematic dynasties are Qin, Yuan, Maoist... is that accurate?

 

What are the most idealized and looked up to dynasties? Han, Tang, Song, Ming?

 

I heard that Taoism was set back hugely by a Ming ruler destroying the Taoism temples and building Buddhist ones over them.

 

~~~

 

On the topic of democracy being hijacked in America by unseen forces, that's a major theme in Journey to the West compiled in the Ming dynasty: rulers influenced by evil Taoists, fox demons, etc... whereupon a subtle bad-energy clouds gather over the kingdom (early chemtrails?) that the Monkey King could look at to see how prosperous and happy the kingdom in question was and he could tell who *really* ruled the country before even meeting the Emperor in person but meanwhile, even the Emperor himself and his court had no idea that he had been led astray...

 

Yoda

[Nanashi]

I'm not trying to call anyone a liar, but do you guys realize we can see the "User's Local Time" in your profile?

 

...

 

Yoda: I'm a fan of the Tang dynasty; 'twas a real Golden Age of Chinese civilization and culture.

[Yoda]

Nanashi,

 

sometimes I wonder if that time thing is accurate. There used to be an IP address for everyone somewhere. Maybe Sean took it down.

 

Your pal,

Yoda

[Marblehead]

Yoda: I'm a fan of the Tang dynasty; 'twas a real Golden Age of Chinese civilization and culture.

 

Yea!!!!! Someone agrees with me!!! It has been a very long time since my studies of Chinese history so I would be unable to present any specifics but I do remember very well that I was very impressed with the period of the early Tang.

 

Happy Trails!

[~jK~]

oh.......I'm so sorry.....your not Chinese! Actually there is no Kowloon city I'm afraid, it's called Kowloon, an area, no one calls it Kowloon city, they didn't before and they don't now. Tut tut, we really should get our facts straight, and if you had ever been to Hong Kong you would know how ridiculous it is to say you lived there as the 'only' foreigner, it was a British colony.....it's always been swarming with them! Go look for yourself! You will be happy to know though that your beloved Hong Kong is doing just fine, perhaps one day you may just make it there. Keep saving those cents.

 

WOW - You need to tell the world of your discovery ! Some one has stolen Kowloon City -where I once lived- and its 381,352 people.. what happened to them ! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowloon_City_District

 

To see where a person is living - observe their time when they post and compare it to yours. Then look here for time zones: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html

If you had lived in China you would know of the atrocities that the Japanese committed here and be ashamed of your stage name: "Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that"

The Chinese call it their holocaust: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

Here is another city - where the infamous Nanjing Massacre happened.

http://www.cnd.org/njmassacre/

The _Japanese_ -not Chinese character that is above the bird ( The bird a phoenix - in China it symbolizes female that is abut to be married) means in English: 'Ninja' or 'Japanese Assassin' .

 

Live with yourself - I will not dirty this website by replying to one such as you.

[~jK~]

I'm not sure a democracy would be good for China. And actually I don't htink it would be accurate to call it a communist nation any more. Prehaps more at a dictatorship with a group of dictators rather than a single dictator.

 

Ah, my Dear US Republic. Where did it go? It just got lost somewhere and devolved into a democracy. Actually, a republic form of government wouldn't be bad for China, I think.

 

Happy Trails!

 

Marbled-one,

 

China call itself "The People's Republic of China" (P.R.C.) after the statement in the introduction of Plato's Republic:

http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/republic.1.introduction.html

"We are thus led on to the conception of a higher State, in which "no man calls anything his own," and in which there is neither "marrying nor giving in marriage," and "kings are philosophers" and "philosophers are kings;" and there is another and higher education, intellectual as well as moral and religious, of science as well as of art, and not of youth only but of the whole of life."

The rest of the book is here:

http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/republic.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

The book that is widely seen as defining China: The I Ching (They write it in Pin Yin: "The Yi Jing")

Which (In My Opinion) is best understood through beginning with I Ching #7 as it sets the pace for understanding the rest of the book.

What is being pointed to, in #7, is that a good leader will eventually need to defend China and by this will need to raise an army.

The people of China are it's hidden army as compared to water in the ground. (Water is necessary for life as the hidden army is necessacary for the continuance of China)

It continues further with: If the Leader has been good & Moral, then the people will respond.

 

Here is the excerpt that points to the above statement:

"The Image

In the middle of the earth is water:

The image of the Army.

Thus the superior man increases his masses

By generosity toward the people."

 

 

The best rendering of the Yi Jing is -in my opinion-

"The Pocket I Ching" Simplified by W.S. Boardman http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d.html?a=B0010SS9D6

 

How powerful is the book?

Mao Tse Tung used the phillosophy of Yi Jing #7 to save China.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

#7. Shih - The Army

 

-- --

-- -- above K'un The Receptive, Earth

-- --

-- --

----- below K'an The Abysmal, Water

-- --

 

The Judgement

 

The Army.

The army needs perseverance

And a strong man.

Good fortune without blame.

 

The Image

 

In the middle of the earth is water:

The image of the Army.

Thus the superior man increases his masses

By generosity toward the people.

 

The Lines

 

Six at the beginning means:

An army must set forth in proper order.

If the order is not good, misfortune threatens.

 

() Nine in the second place means:

In the midst of the army.

Good fortune. No blame.

The king bestows a triple decoration.

 

Six in the third place means:

Perchance the army carries corpses in the wagon.

Misfortune.

 

Six in the fourth place means:

The army retreats. No blame.

 

() Six in the fifth place means:

There is game in the field.

It furthers one to catch it.

Without blame.

Let the eldest lead the army.

The younger transports corpses;

Then perseverance brings misfortune.

 

Six at the top means:

The great prince issues commands,

Founds states, vests families with fiefs.

Inferior people should not be employed.

[~jK~]

cool thread, thanks!

 

 

 

I've heard it said that it's the good schooling system that is pushing Christianity's recent popularity...

 

I didn't realize that Taoism and Buddhism have reached a "laughable" stage... Doesn't sound like a comeback is possible any time soon!*

 

Remove Taoism and Buddhism and we are back to the Qin dynasty brutality. Mao was compared to the first emperor of China who buried alive 460 scholars and Mao said he was offended by the comparison as Mao had buried alive 1,000x that!!!

 

I'm watching the youtube of China's first emperor and he was really paranoid of payback in the afterlife... hence the 8,000 terracotta soldiers! I hope that worked out ok for him!

 

~~~~

*but are the Chinese *really* Christian and not simply enjoying it as a western fashion? I saw the Sexy Beijing youtube on Christmas which suggested that they are just playing Christian.

 

Yoda,

You have many really long -years- ahead of you in studying Chinese history.

 

They will be enjoable and enlightening beyond your greatest imaginings.

A hint of what is to come is that the English language is based in belief.

Alphabet = sounds together = words taught by your mother.

 

Chinese language is based on pictures from reality.

A Bull & a Cow mating = the word: Beginning.

Woman & Child together = the word: 'OK'

 

My Chinese friends swear to me that the word 'OK' has been a part of Chinese language for longer than the foreigners have come to China.

 

Here is a free book to get you started: http://tsoidug.org/dizigui_trans_simp.php

Here is many books on it: http://www.chinapage.com/

I'll send more in a private message.

[Yoda]

jK,

 

I look forward to experiencing the enlightenment of the language!

 

Your pal,

Yoda

[Marblehead]

Marbled-one,

 

China call itself "The People's Republic of China" (P.R.C.) after the statement in the introduction of Plato's Republic:

 

Yes. However, the idea of 'republic' was interlaced with 'communism' and I think that this presented a condition that prevented most forward movement. And their form of 'communism' restricted the rights and freedom of the individual.

 

I do see in the past twenty years a reduction of the 'communist' influence in the governance. I think that this is the primary reason China has become a world economic power. Socialism, IMO, is not all that bad a form of governance. But, it is difficult to manage; even more so than communism.

 

The US, IMO, is going the way of Rome. If we do not change the nation will decay just as Rome did. That's what democracy gets you.

 

China has the potential for a wonderful future. We'll see how they handle themselves.

 

Happy Trails!

[~jK~]

jK,

 

I look forward to experiencing the enlightenment of the language!

 

Your pal,

Yoda

 

Either of these two will teach the main points of writing - reading is a different matter.

Reading and writing chinese simplified version will get you started - it is for the New China - created by Mao Tse Tung.

http://www.amazon.com/Reading-Writing-Chin...r/dp/0804835098

 

Reading & Writing Chinese Traditional Character Edition is mainly for Hong Kong and translators of ancient texts.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss?url=sear...p;x=14&y=15

 

Here is the beginners level for understanding the language:

"Chinese idioms are the most characteristic in Chinese words and phrases, which can accurately express a profound meaning with only a few words. This dictionary is specially compiled for the foreign readers who are studying Chinese language. It aims to help them understand and use the common Chinese idioms correctly"

http://www.chinese-tools.com/chinese/chengyu/dictionary

 

More of the same: http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&...=chinese+idioms

Edited September 28, 2009 by ~jK~

[Yoda]

jK,

 

I was thinking of learning basic travel speaking first and then do some basic writing. Thanks for the book recommendations!

 

Your pal,

Yoda

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

WOW - You need to tell the world of your discovery ! Some one has stolen Kowloon City -where I once lived- and its 381,352 people.. what happened to them ! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowloon_City_District

 

To see where a person is living - observe their time when they post and compare it to yours. Then look here for time zones: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html

If you had lived in China you would know of the atrocities that the Japanese committed here and be ashamed of your stage name: "Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that"

The Chinese call it their holocaust: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

Here is another city - where the infamous Nanjing Massacre happened.

http://www.cnd.org/njmassacre/

The _Japanese_ -not Chinese character that is above the bird ( The bird a phoenix - in China it symbolizes female that is abut to be married) means in English: 'Ninja' or 'Japanese Assassin' .

 

Live with yourself - I will not dirty this website by replying to one such as you.

 

 

 

1. The character you are referring to, which you state is Japanese, I'm very sorry to inform you that it is ORIGINALLY(and still)Chinese, and if you were worth your salt you would know that these are the characters the Japanese originally used FROM the Chinese and still do. Google Kanji. No, wiki it, why not. So, for example were I Chinese I could go to Japan and although they cannot understand my Chinese if I wrote something down for them they could pretty much understand it, I say pretty much as they have developed some of their own meaning into the 'Chinese' characters. I'm very sorry..... but 1.3 billion Chinese will disagree with you....and in fact be exceptionally insulted I might add that you suggested that's originally a Japanese character!

 

2. I didn't say there is no Kowloon. I said no one calls it Kowloon city. No one does, and if you had ever lived there you would know that. Furthermore you have side stepped(rather badly)the ridiculous statement that you were the only foreigner living there for 2 years! I'm sorry, but absolutely no one who has ever been to Hong Kong even for a day would take what you have said seriously..... pick a stone up and chuck it and in Kowloon you're just as likely to hit a foreigner as a Chinese.

 

3. Yes I know of the atrocities, it's something I never hear the end of to be frank. But let me ask you a question(not one I really need the answer to)where do those terrible Japanese people come from..... oh.....what's that....... oh.. that's right, Japanese people come originally from China! Surprise surprise. All the Chinese know it(but don't like to mention that part). And where exactly do you think most of the roots of the Martial Arts of Asia come from(including Ninjutsu ).....of course China. Am I ashamed. Certainly not. It was not I that performed such atrocities, and neither do I agree with them, and since the majority of people on this website are not Chinese(including you)I rather doubt I'm offending anyone.

 

4. The phoenix in China actually symbolizes an empress. Go check out some royal crests online if you will. Dragon/emperor Phoenix/Empress, but yes, nowadays they do often use this symbol in weddings.

 

All of the above can be attested to by absolutely ANYONE Chinese. Go find one.

 

As for the time zone thing, I'm sorry, that's well off, your welcome to check with other people on the site from other countries if you like, I have no profit in lying. As I type this the time is 1:52am, and no, I don't have to be at work in the morning. My email is also set to a different time zone.

 

I would not mind were you not so rude. I would not mind if you actually knew what you were talking about. But how rude. I do like the fact that you try to collate information and present it as an argument, but it is of the most superficial nature.....the Kanji mistake...ooohhhh, painful. Hong Kong/Only foreigner.....more so.

 

I know you have a thing about China, I understand. But there's no need to imagine your standing up for 1.3 billion people who can and do stand up for themselves.

 

Rouguo ni shi jhoongguo ren dui bu qi. Ta tai ben le. Ta xiang yige zi shi erban de, wo gao si ta, ta bu dui. Ta xihuan shuo, danshi ta bu nang xiang. Wo bu hao yisi.

 

That by the way is not for you, that is an apology to anyone Chinese who reads our embarrassing exchange.

Edited September 30, 2009 by Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that

[Yoda]

I just learned that China has always dominated international trade from the Ming on and possibly before that too. In the beginning of the 18th century, 25% of all international trade transactions worldwide involved "Made in China".

[Marblehead]

I just learned that China has always dominated international trade from the Ming on and possibly before that too. In the beginning of the 18th century, 25% of all international trade transactions worldwide involved "Made in China".

 

I have no reason to question that statement however I would point out that proir to the 1950s that function was forced upon them by other nations. Since the 1950s they have been doing it of their own accord.

 

Happy Trails!

[gendao]

I just learned that China has always dominated international trade from the Ming on and possibly before that too. In the beginning of the 18th century, 25% of all international trade transactions worldwide involved "Made in China".

Absolutely.

 

Why do you think Britain & the Sassoons started the opium trade and wars with China?

 

Britain had racked up such a huge trade deficit with China by the 1800s because they were importing lots of china and other Oriental wares...but didn't really have much desirable goods to sell back in return. Enter opium. Trafficking drugs to China and waging war on them was their way of relieving the trade deficit.

 

The cost to China was astronomical for this. It's estimated that 100 million Chinese perished over 150 years of this state-sponsored drug trafficking. The financial costs were of course staggering as well - including the loss of territories like Hong Kong.

[Yoda]

I haven't gotten to the colonial period... sounds like a doozy. From what it looks like in another 100 years or so is going to be payback. When the current economic downturn is over China will be another notch up. A couple more economic cycles, comrade...

[~jK~]

I just learned that China has always dominated international trade from the Ming on and possibly before that too. In the beginning of the 18th century, 25% of all international trade transactions worldwide involved "Made in China".

You may like the author Pearl S. Buck (She grew up in China, where her parents were missionaries) She was considered a historian of China. She came to China at age 3 months old. http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/literat...8/buck-bio.html

 

Her book Peony tells of a Chinese servant girl in a jewish family, during the 12th century AD, and how the Chinese learned book keeping methods from them.

 

Her book Dragonseed tells of experiences in the WWars in China.

 

Her book East Wind, West Wind (her first book) tells of a young Chinese woman that marries a Chinese man who was educated in the west and her difficulties in adjusting to him.

 

Her book The Good Earth became the bestselling book of both 1931 and 1932, won the Pulitzer Prize and the Howells Medal in 1935 and was adapted as a major MGM film in 1937.

In 1938 she won the Nobel Prize in literature.

 

I am originally from Grover, S.C. - a town of 300 people. In my Grandmother's home there was only one picture of anyone not family. It was of Pearl Buck - the person that inspired my mother to continue her education until she reached PhD in education so that she could see -what else was in the world.

 

She wrote over 70 books - here is a list: http://www.amazon.com/Pearl-S.-Buck/e/B000...hr_dp_pel_pop_1

[Yoda]

jK,

 

I could tell you were from SC by your accent!

 

Thanks for yet more reading material! I heard that The Good Earth is a good read but not exactly a feminist triumph or anything. It's great that there are way more along these lines. Just curious, are there any kid friendly ones in that they stay light hearted throughout?

 

Your pal,

Yoda

[~jK~]

jK,

 

I could tell you were from SC by your accent!

 

Thanks for yet more reading material! I heard that The Good Earth is a good read but not exactly a feminist triumph or anything. It's great that there are way more along these lines. Just curious, are there any kid friendly ones in that they stay light hearted throughout?

 

Your pal,

Yoda

 

Most are serious - dealing with the realities and success of dealing with the situations. During Pearl Buck's time in China - the struggle to survive was not easy. Even now it is very competitive between the Chinese.

 

I almost forgot - the book considered to be the #1 source by both the Chinese & USA in Chinese history & phillosophy:

A Short History of Chinese Philosophy

There are 2 of these books - one is 'short' - the other is not short... Both are long.

 

Dr. Yu-lan Fung was considered to be such an authority that the USA gov't requested of the Chinese government that he be allowed to leave China during the world wars in China and come to USA's Princeton Univerity - where he wrote these above mentioned books.

 

I would begin with this one:

"A Short History of Chinese Philosophy"

by Yu-lan Fung (Author), Derk Bodde (Editor)

http://www.amazon.com/Short-History-Chines.../dp/0684836343#

The first sentence in the book:

"THE place which philosophy has occupied in Chinese civilization has been comparable to that of religion in other civilizations..."

Edited September 30, 2009 by ~jK~

[Yoda]

thanks for yet more books!