Guidelines for Taoist-Buddhist Dialog

[Stigweard]

[Stigweard]

Here is my commitment:

 

"I agree in full with the above principles and practices of interfaith dialog and promise to apply my best efforts to upholding them whilst ever engaged in interfaith dialog (or in fact any dialog) here on The TaoBums. If at anytime I should fall short of these guidelines I am happy and willing to receive respectful reminders of these principles and practices from other members of The TaoBums."

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Well, the steps are nice in a general sense, but as far as specifics, they fall short. It would be hard to 'call out' another based on these as they sort of are a guide to the spirit of discussion, but are not a code of conduct per se. A step in the right direction for sure, but need further fleshing out, (in my opinion).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Stigweard]

Well, the steps are nice in a general sense, but as far as specifics, they fall short. It would be hard to 'call out' another based on these as they sort of are a guide to the spirit of discussion, but are not a code of conduct per se. A step in the right direction for sure, but need further fleshing out, (in my opinion).

.

There are plenty enough specifics in there to create harmonious dialogue. In my view the intent is less about having a list we can "call out" on each other and more about having guidelines we can reflect on individually to help us engage effectively with other people even if they are of different spiritual traditions with contrasting views.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

There are plenty enough specifics in there to create harmonious dialogue. In my view the intent is less about having a list we can "call out" on each other and more about having guidelines we can reflect on individually to help us engage effectively with other people even if they are of different spiritual traditions with contrasting views.

 

 

True, but some of the behavior that I personally find so frustrating is by a few individuals who have no insight into the way they come across to others, even when it is specifically pointed out to them by quite a few of us. According to them, it we that don't understand, we are somehow inferior. Many of us are offended and put up resistance. The kind of proselytizing they do are not even understood as beliefs, but rather "comprehensions" of the Truth. Most of our stuff is in reaction to what seems to be insufferable boorish behavior. An invasion of zealots we should not suffer. I think even you, Stigweard, have been drawn into the fray.

 

Hey, if they can abide by this, I am happy to hear a real dialogue without the over-the-top air of superiority/inferiority, possession of the truth or that their 'enlightenment' is the highest form of enlightenment and everyone else's is lesser. If they can bring their views and opinions across in a non-offensive way, I have absolutely no problem-none-with an on-going healthy dialogue and exchange.

Edited September 24, 2009 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[Marblehead]

Hi Stig,

 

Here is my commitment with disclaimer attached:

 

"I agree in full with the above principles and practices of interfaith dialog and promise to apply my best efforts to upholding them whilst ever engaged in interfaith dialog (or in fact any dialog) here on The TaoBums. If at anytime I should fall short of these guidelines I am happy and willing to receive respectful reminders of these principles and practices from other members of The TaoBums."

 

"I reserve the right to declare this commitment null and void, without notice, if other parties of the discussion are in violation of the afore said principles."

 

(When in Rome be as the Romans.)

 

Happy Trails!

[Lucky7Strikes]

I commit!

[goldisheavy]

I don't think this is the first time Stig tried something like this. Either that, or maybe my memory is failing me now.

[Stigweard]

True, but some of the behavior that I personally find so frustrating is by a few individuals who have no insight into the way they come across to others, even when it is specifically pointed out to them by quite a few of us. According to them, it we that don't understand, we are somehow inferior. Many of us are offended and put up resistance. The kind of proselytizing they do are not even understood as beliefs, but rather "comprehensions" of the Truth. Most of our stuff is in reaction to what seems to be insufferable boorish behavior. An invasion of zealots we should not suffer. I think even you, Stigweard, have been drawn into the fray.

 

Hey, if they can abide by this, I am happy to hear a real dialogue without the over-the-top air of superiority/inferiority, possession of the truth or that their 'enlightenment' is the highest form of enlightenment and everyone else's is lesser. If they can bring their views and opinions across in a non-offensive way, I have absolutely no problem-none-with an on-going healthy dialogue and exchange.

I am in agreement.

 

Hi Stig,

 

Here is my commitment with disclaimer attached:

 

"I agree in full with the above principles and practices of interfaith dialog and promise to apply my best efforts to upholding them whilst ever engaged in interfaith dialog (or in fact any dialog) here on The TaoBums. If at anytime I should fall short of these guidelines I am happy and willing to receive respectful reminders of these principles and practices from other members of The TaoBums."

 

"I reserve the right to declare this commitment null and void, without notice, if other parties of the discussion are in violation of the afore said principles."

 

(When in Rome be as the Romans.)

 

Happy Trails!

 

I don't think this is the first time Stig tried something like this. Either that, or maybe my memory is failing me now.

Consistency is a virtue didn't you know

 

I commit!

Good for you

[Vajrahridaya]

My initial intention in the Why Buddhism is Different thread was to just show how a Monist interpretation cannot be the same as a Buddhist realization of the nature of things. Buddhism has clearly different realizations and cannot be crammed into the, "all religions are the same" nutshell. It is unique in it's realization of the nature of existence. I wasn't actually trying to argue, just making a point but it became an argument and I thought it was a good one that allowed some critical points to be clarified. I think those that got offended and continue to get offended are taking themselves too seriously.

 

But, I do commit to dialog. As long as revealing difference is not seen as revealing superiority.

[Stigweard]

My initial intention in the Why Buddhism is Different thread was to just show how a Monist interpretation cannot be the same as a Buddhist realization of the nature of things. Buddhism has clearly different realizations and cannot be crammed into the, "all religions are the same" nutshell. It is unique in it's realization of the nature of existence. I wasn't actually trying to argue, just making a point but it became an argument and I thought it was a good one that allowed some critical points to be clarified. I think those that got offended and continue to get offended are taking themselves too seriously.

 

But, I do commit to dialog. As long as revealing difference is not seen as revealing superiority.

I am glad you have made your commitment to the principles and practices of the OP. Let us then use this as our reference point in exploring our mutual diversity.

 

 

Just as a point then, in reference to the Why Buddhism is Different thread, can you see how the following statements can easily be viewed as revealing a difference to imply a superiority? The key word here is "transcendent" meaning: to rise above or go beyond; to outdo or exceed in excellence.

 

This subtle difference is an important difference that makes Buddhism transcendent of monism, or "there is only" one-ism.

 

I know you well believe, from your Buddhist framework, that this statement is true. However, by using these terms, there is the inherent implication therein that your difference makes your belief system superior. It is these sort of statements that have "raised the ire" of our resident Taoists, including, to a certain degree, myself.

 

If we are to keep our word to each other and adhere to these guidelines of interfaith dialogue, then I make the suggestion that we be more mindful of such terms. This would be in accordance of principle 5 in the OP.

 

[Vajrahridaya]

 

 

Just as a point then, in reference to the Why Buddhism is Different thread, can you see how the following statements can easily be viewed as revealing a difference to imply a superiority? The key word here is "transcendent" meaning: to rise above or go beyond; to outdo or exceed in excellence.

I know you well believe, from your Buddhist framework, that this statement is true. However, by using these terms, there is the inherent implication therein that your difference makes your belief system superior. It is these sort of statements that have "raised the ire" of our resident Taoists, including, to a certain degree, myself.

 

If we are to keep our word to each other and adhere to these guidelines of interfaith dialogue, then I make the suggestion that we be more mindful of such terms. This would be in accordance of principle 5 in the OP.

 

 

I do understand that. But it is hard when that type of thinking is a given part of the original form of Buddhism as taught by Gotama the Buddha. He said such things all the time, that I am beyond these teachings and those teachings and these teachings are inferior and only lead to this or that level of awakening but not the full awakening that I have realized, etc. It's an integral part of Buddhist philosophy to think that way.

 

But... I'll give it my darndest!! That's for sure!!

 

I think there are great beings studying and practicing Taoism, not only just in the world but here as well, including yourself Stigweard.

[Stigweard]

I do understand that. But it is hard when that type of thinking is a given part of the original form of Buddhism as taught by Gotama the Buddha. He said such things all the time, that I am beyond these teachings and those teachings and these teachings are inferior and only lead to this or that level of awakening but not the full awakening that I have realized, etc. It's an integral part of Buddhist philosophy to think that way.

 

But... I'll give it my darndest!! That's for sure!!

 

I think there are great beings studying and practicing Taoism, not only just in the world but here as well, including yourself Stigweard.

Excellent!!

 

I believe we have made the first steps to many fruitful exchanges. If you ever see me violate the principles I have committed to in this thread then I beg you to assist me by bringing it to my attention immediately.

 

_/\_

[JustARandomPanda]

I'll sign on. It's easy for me. I'm clueless about both - especially as they both seem very good belief systems to put into daily practice and very complimentary (as no doubt the Chinese agreed with).

 

Now my next question is...

 

How long before TB gets invaded by a bunch of devout Confucianists?

[Stigweard]

I'll sign on. It's easy for me. I'm clueless about both - especially as they both seem very good belief systems to put into daily practice and very complimentary (as no doubt the Chinese agreed with).

 

Now my next question is...

 

How long before TB gets invaded by a bunch of devout Confucianists?

[Creation]

I will certainly endeavor to be respectful and open minded in all interfaith dialogue that I participate in here.

 

 

He said such things all the time, that I am beyond these teachings and those teachings and these teachings are inferior and only lead to this or that level of awakening but not the full awakening that I have realized, etc.

Suppose Lord Buddha had the realization but not the power to give the (seed of the) realization (which is beyond words) to others. Would he have spoken that way?

Edited September 25, 2009 by Creation

[Marblehead]

 

Suppose Lord Buddha had the realization but not the power to give the (seed of the) realization (which is beyond words) to others. Would he have spoken that way?

 

That sounded so much like: "What would Jesus do?" Hehehe.

 

Happy Trails!

[Vajrahridaya]

I will certainly endeavor to be respectful and open minded in all interfaith dialogue that I participate in here.

Suppose Lord Buddha had the realization but not the power to give the (seed of the) realization (which is beyond words) to others. Would he have spoken that way?

 

Of course he did, as there are many mentions of this transcendent mind transmission beyond words in the scriptures. People just felt at peace around him.

 

Of course others wanted him dead because he spoke against the popular Brahman order and the Vedas.

[Mal]

How long before TB gets invaded by a bunch of devout Confucianists?

 

Yes what happened to the Confucians, it's like we are missing part of the trinity.

 

I'd sign on, but then I would feel like I probably should be reading the arguments threads and I've already signed some other pact somewhere that I can't remember {wanders off poking the search engine}

[Creation]

Of course he did, as there are many mentions of this transcendent mind transmission beyond words in the scriptures. People just felt at peace around him.

 

Of course others wanted him dead because he spoke against the popular Brahman order and the Vedas.

I'm not sure that you got my point. May I will remind you that there was a question in my post, not just a statement. And an undertone of "How might this apply to me?"

Edited September 25, 2009 by Creation

[Vajrahridaya]

"How might this apply to me?"

 

However you want it to. You either get into Buddhism objectively, or you extrapolate what you want from it and make up your own interpretation.

[Stigweard]

However you want it to. You either get into Buddhism objectively, or you extrapolate what you want from it and make up your own interpretation.

 

And of course we are remembering that that same applies to Taoism right?

[Creation]

However you want it to. You either get into Buddhism objectively, or you extrapolate what you want from it and make up your own interpretation.

????

I think we are talking past each other, friend.

 

Best wishes,

Tyler

[Mal]

yes subtle reference missed

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

OK, I'm in.

 

 

/!\ >>> _/\_

Edited September 25, 2009 by TheSongsofDistantEarth