Tao In A Bottle

[Cameron]

I have taken quite a few supplements over the past few years and they all have interesting benifits and drawbacks. The one I think is by far the best and absolutely invaluable to someone into qigong or Taoist arts is this one.

 

Part of the challenge of spiritual and energetic practices is how to deal with all the powerful energy that arises with practice and especially gaining control of sexual and emotional energy.

 

Everyone has some sort of technique or method to deal with this but the only thing I have found which really offers a long term, safe and easy answer is this product.

 

It gives you more energy and is an adaptogen and all that but the main benifit comes from this amino acid Alpathean which is only found in green tea. This stuff is amazing and the Japanese have known about it and used for over 20 years.

 

It has the effect of stabilizing your shen so your emotions are balanced and puts you into an alpha brain wave state where meditation, qigong, yoga, martial arts or whatever you like to do is greatly improved.

 

Do yourself a favor and buy a bottle for youself for Christmas. It's $29 for a months supply.

 

http://dragonherbs.com/products/products.asp?sku=161

[sunshine]

I tried it (even in "megadoses") and felt no effect at all... nevertheless I love their products...

[Cameron]

No effect at all? Interesting.

 

For me it is has been amazing. It deeply relaxes and stabilizes my emotions so shen(spirit,qi) can come up without 'bumping' into things.

 

It's major usefulness, though, is I think for those who di qigong and get emtionally charged energy from the organs come up with the increase in qi. It seems to just stabalize and anger, worry, etc and bring it back to a state of peacful, alert awareness(which is also very heart centered for me).

 

But one size does not fit all I guess

[VCraigP]

Cameron

One Clarification.

 

Alphathean is a trademark of a manufacturer of Theanine. Theanine is the amino acid found in Green tea which is so helpful. It promotes alpha state and also ameliorates the effects of caffeine. Which is why drinking green tea is not so harsh as drinking other caffeine sources.

There are other brands which you can buy which are just Theanine.

Sunshine might want to experiment with them. I use NOW foods Theanine which comes in a green tea powder base, and I think is 100mg Theanine per capsule.

This is kind of a new product, so not a lot of choices out there, and not often found on the shelf (depending where you shop). I'd advise finding it online.

 

I sometimes use this as an adjunct when I need more chilling out, or want to have more theanine in relation to other adaptogens going into my system.

 

Just FYI.

 

Craig

[Cameron]

Thanks Craig. I love this product. Just like you said it chills you out but also gives more focus and clearer thinking. One of the things I have noticed with alot of the online Taoists is they may have cultivated alot of qi but it's not stable and balanced. I usually don't just blatently reccomend any product but I think this one would be very useful for alot of people.

 

Shen stabilization seems like something that everyone could use more of . Though 'chill you out' or relaxation would make more sense to someone not into Tao.

[Yoda]

Here's a cool link that gets into tao in a bottle, tea, and theanine territory:

 

http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:5fEL_...+theanine&hl=en

 

Interesting stuff.

 

Here's another kickass link:

 

http://www.dragonherbs.com/products/produc...u=161#more_info

 

Apparently, the Japanese have been using theanine for awhile. They even put it in their ice cream!

 

-Yoda

[VCraigP]

Here's a cool link that gets into tao in a bottle, tea, and theanine territory:

 

http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:5fEL_...+theanine&hl=en

 

Interesting stuff.

 

Yoda

Many thanks for the link.

 

I have done some web research on this item myself in the past, and you have come up with by far the most thorough piece on the subject I have yet seen.

Thanks

 

Craig

[Yoda]

I'm glad you liked the link. Looks like the Japanese have studied the wazoo out of it.

[Cameron]

You need to be as balanced and calm as can be when you live on an island of 125,000,000.

 

I have a feeling my childhood would have gone alot smoother if people were putting Tao in a Bottle in my ice cream.

 

Seriusly they should try giving it to kids with ADD it probably works much better than that ritalin garbage(and is healthier).

[Jeremiah]

yum ice cream but

 

has anyone tried mangosteen juice? i've long suffered from migranes and several people have recommened it.

[freeform]

.

Edited October 23, 2019 by freeform

[karen]

I use goji berries from www.rawfood.com, essentially the same thing, I believe.

 

The herbal/nutritional supplement industry is having a field day right now, appealing to the tendency to reduce herbs and foods down to chemical constituents and producing a lot of marketing hype.

 

I think it helps to make the distinction between traditional herbalism and the herb industry that's been coopted by Big Pharma.

 

It could be useful at times to take a fractionated substance like theanine out of the foods and herbs it occurs in naturally, but for general purposes I like to use the whole foods and herbs which are more balanced.

 

Karen

[Jeremiah]

Thanks Karen!

 

I ordered a 2.5 pound bag of organic goji berries. Maybe now i'll live to 232 years old like Li Qing Yuen!

 

So do you feel like eating the raw berries are better than the nutritional supplements? My intuition says yes. Would you recommend anything with it to help digest?

 

Thanks for your help,

Mike

[Lozen]

Mangosteen is basically sold as a multi-level marketting scheme. I will have to dig up the research I did on it for a client, but I remember the juice was mostly fruit and way overpriced, and basically I found other products (at much better prices) where she could get antioxidants and other things she needed. And as far as tao in a bottle--what's wrong with good ol' green tea? My $.02.

 

Feverfew or clematis for migraines,

Lozen

[Cameron]

I love drinking green tea but even the best tea like what we got at seven cups does not come close to the effect of taking Tao in a Bottle(for me).

 

But I don't want to hype it anymore since one person who tried it here said they got no benefits from it. Will wait to here for some fdedback from Yoda if it works as well for others as it does for me.

[VCraigP]

Mangosteen is basically sold as a multi-level marketting scheme. I will have to dig up the research I did on it for a client, but I remember the juice was mostly fruit and way overpriced, and basically I found other products (at much better prices) where she could get antioxidants and other things she needed. And as far as tao in a bottle--what's wrong with good ol' green tea? My $.02.

 

Feverfew or clematis for migraines,

Lozen

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Nothing wrong with good old green tea.

 

food supplements are.....Supplementary to good dietary practices.

 

Tao ina Bottle contains some really good stuff;

In addittion to Alphathean (which seems to be Dragonherbs or some other companie's trademark name for Theanine) it contains.

 

Gynostemma extract

Duanwood Reishi Extract

Eleuthero extract

Schisandra extract

Astragalus extract

Tibetan Rhodiola extract

Ginseng extract

Ginkgo biloba extract.

 

I can see by your other posts that your training leans towards Western herbalism.

Nothing wrong with that. But these are wonderful Tonic herbs from the orient, do some of your own research.

Ron Teegaurden is a master herbalist and gets some of the top herbs in the world for his products.

No I am not a paid spokesperson. Just someone in the industry who knows products and quality.

 

My two bits.

 

Craig

[Lozen]

Just FYI my acupuncturist (who is trained in Chinese herbs) says not to take ginseng before the age of 55 and also not to take astragulas if you are feeling anything less than optimal.

 

My training does lean towards Western herbalism (yes I do my own research ), but I've also taken Chinese herbs, mostly those prescribed to me by my acupuncturist, in my opinion the best herbs in the world won't work well unless they are specifically geared to your body type and condition. I guess I'm not a fan of the shotgun approach, one size fits all.

 

Lozen

 

p.s. I asked about why not green tea because it seems that when major problems come up healthwise from herbal supplements is due to these extractions... I'm a fan of using the whole plant to treat the whole person.

Edited December 7, 2005 by Lozen

[Lozen]

You should try green puer Cam... I'll look for my articles on it in a bit...

 

I love drinking green tea but even the best tea like what we got at seven cups does not come close to the effect of taking Tao in a Bottle(for me).

 

But I don't want to hype it anymore since one person who tried it here said they got no benefits from it. Will wait to here for some fdedback from Yoda if it works as well for others as it does for me.

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[Cameron]

I agree with Craig. The herbs you deal in are what Tonic herbalists refer to as inferior herbs. They are used to treat a problem.

 

Tonic herbalism is totally different. These herbs have been used for thousands of years by the Chinese and Taoists to nurture health and spiritual development . They are completely safe and can be used by anyone. They nourish the 3 treasures(jing, qi, shen).

 

It is referred to as 'superior herbalism'. If you want to know more I would suggest reading Ron Teeguarden's book " The Ancient Secret of Chinese Tonic Herbs". He is probably the most well known tonic herbalist in America and has made the best quality products available to anyone.

 

Tao in a Bottle is IMO his greatest commerical product but they are all awesome and totally safe.

Edited December 7, 2005 by Cameron

[Lozen]

I will have to disagree with you there. First of all, the main marketting strategy for this tao in a bottle thing is a supposed "new ingredient" (so no it hasn't been used in that form for thousands of years) and that is the main selling point. Second of all, some of the "herbs I deal in" are included in the tao in a bottle formula (like for example I take ginkgo) so it's not that I am dealing in "different" herbs. I would have to question the labelling of herbs as inferior or superior. Also every Western herbalist I know is familiar with tonic or tonifying herbs as a subset of their training. For example, I take reishi mushroom and ginger root which are commonly referred to as tonics in TCM. There are plenty of herbs though that can be used both to tonify AND to treat problems. Are you saying that if I take an herb to treat a problem it is inferior, but if I use it as a tonic it suddenly becomes superior? In addition, just because herbs have been used for thousands of years does not make them safe for everybody. I am skeptical of extracting certain chemicals from whole plants and using them in large doses, because if you look closely at problems people have had with "herbs" it is almost always due to either this form of extraction or that they are buying an herb that's not recommended for their condition. Also if you want to look in thousand year old knowledge of Chinese herbalism, they will tell you flat out, do not take astragulas (or other tonics for that matter) if you are sick (it can trap the pathogen inside your body or push it deeper), do not take ginseng before the age of 40 (okay so the age requirement varies depending on who you ask, but every TCM herbalist I've ever talked to suggests caution... though Western herbalists don't.) Also I'd like some backup on how this person has made the "best quality products available to anyone."

 

Any herbalist/healer worth their salt, including acupuncturists, naturopaths, herbalists, Tibetan medicine people, etc. would not recommend a blanket cure-all for everyone. At the very least they would be advising their clients/customers to make dietary changes and get exercise or change their lifestyle in some way or other, not just keep doing what you're doing and take my secret formula.

 

Like for example in the tao in a bottle infomercial web page, he said that tao in a bottle will help with sexual performance, the causes of which are insufficient jing and blood, but then he goes on to say that you can use theanine to eliminate jitteriness from caffeine while still keeping you alert. Cool, so i can have my cake and eat it too? He of course neglected to mention that coffee actually depletes jing. Just one example.

 

As far as adaptogens, that term was first coined and studied in 1947, and there are more than just one out there. I like ling zhi (reishi) a lot. As far as amino acids (including theanine), according to Paul Pitchford not only does virtually every unrefined food have all eight essential amino acids, but all twenty commonly recognized amino acids. As far as tonifying qi, most whole grains will do this all on their own. Stabilizing shen can be done through prayer, meditation, affirmation, singing, etc. I take ling zhi when I am feeling really really well to calm the mind, strengthen the heart and nurture my spirit. Improving oxygen in the bloodstream can be done through exercise, diet, shiitake mushrooms, garlic or if you must use herbs, chlorella or aloe juice or Suma.

 

Also there may be more theanine in this bottle thing than there is in green tea, but when you extract just one key ingredient you miss out on the rest, int his case catechins in green tea which are awesome antioxidants that inhibit pathogens, prevent cancer, slow down other diseases and are mood lifters.

 

Hey, if it helps people, it's all good...but in my experience I've seen people get really into the next new herbal formula as an alternative to things they need to do for their specific needs/condition/etc... For example, even if I am taking nervines or adaptogens to deal with stress, I'd better figure out ways to elminate that stress in the first place, how do I reduce stress in my life, how do I deal with it non-herbally...the goal is to get back to center, not to buy herbs. Everyone wants to take diet pills as another example and nobody wants to exercise or change their diet. This isn't to knock all formulas... I take Floradix Iron and Herbs as a supplement on occasion (as one example), but I also know all the ingredients in it, where else I can get them (whether in food or other herbs/supplements), the specific reason I'm taking it, any alternatives, etc. and work specificially to tonify stomach/spleen so I won't need it. I think one's best bet is to look at their actual imbalances (no I don't think this is inferior, to specifically tonify what is most likely to break down), and figure out a holistic approach that will address ALL these issues, which will likely include dietary changes, physical activity, emotional changes, etc.

 

Also, and I know I am already starting WWIII, but I just have to ask, what are Ron's teacher "Sung Jin Park" seven martial arts? I thought it was surprising that he has an eight degree black belt in seven different arts. Usually people who have more than one art have different ranks in each of them. Also I can't find any outside verification that he was indeed second in the world in hapkido.

Edited December 7, 2005 by Lozen

[Cameron]

Yup, I am going to take your word over a guy many people consider THE authority on tonic herbalism for like the last 30 years.

 

I am not even going to attempt to defend Ron Teeguarden or the quality and integrity of his products.

Edited December 7, 2005 by Cameron

[Cameron]

Interview with Ron Teeguarden

 

Welcome to TimeWarnerBookmark! Warner Books and The Talk City Network are proud to present our special guest for tonight, Ron Teeguarden, author of The Ancient Wisdom of the Chinese Tonic Herbs. Welcome to Talk City, Ron!

Thank you, it's great to be here!

 

Why did you write this book?

It's important that the American public become knowledgeable about this great type of herbalism. It's becoming extremely popular, but most people don't have much depth of understanding of it as a system. I wanted to paint a picture of what this art is from the view of ancient Asian wisdom. If people understand it, and its potential, then they can take full advantage of it. We can change the healthcare model in this country, and focus much more on promoting health rather than waiting until we're sick.

 

How long have you been into this line of work? What made you get involved in this?

I've been involved with Chinese herbs since 1969. I became involved because I became a victim of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, by my own fault. I burned the candle at too many ends in college. Toward the end, my body just broke down. It was a huge struggle. I went to many different therapists and doctors, and when a friend introduced me to Chinese tonic herbs; it turned my life around and was miraculous to me. I devoted myself not only to becoming well, but making this what I did. At that point, I lived in Michigan, but I moved to California to find teachers. I studied with many teachers during that time, and eventually found a great Taoist Master, Sung Jin Park. He taught me all of the principles and some of the basic herbs. From there, I started teaching, and soon developed a clientele. That was back in the mid-1970s.

 

How can we judge the potency of herbs?

Chinese herbalism is a very, very old system. They've been classifying herbs for 2,000 years. As a person starts to learn and explore the herbs, they learn the raw herbs come more expensive and less expensive. The more expensive ones tend to be better. They have higher quality and are safer. As you become more experienced, you can tell by looking at it, tasting it, knowing its' background. All of that is in my book...information on how to select the herbs. As far as herbal products are concerned, a person wants to buy a name brand that they can trust, and from someone with a company that really seems dedicated to the craft of herbalism. Sometimes smaller companies are careful too. Usually there's some information (website, articles, or a book) to give you a clue concerning their reliability.

 

What do you feel about the herb "Ma Huang" and all it's effects?

Ma Huang is considered to be an inferior herb in Chinese herbalism, which means it has powerful medicinal effects, but can have side effects when used improperly. Ma Huang is actually a great herb, but the way it's used commonly, specifically as a stimulant or in many of the diet formulations, it can have side effects that have negatively influenced our view of that herb. Ma Huang is an excellent herb when used for conditions such as upper respiratory problems such as head colds, bronchitis, asthma, allergies and so on. When provided by a health care practitioner who understands what they are doing. Also, there are good studies that Ma Huang can help to reduce fat stores in the body when combined with caffeine or caffeine-like substances and aspirin or aspirin-like substances. When carefully prepared, and taken moderately, these products are often quite effective. But probably most people should use them under the direction of a health care practitioner who understands them, if they're going to use them. Frankly, there are probably better ways to get energy and lose weight than to use Ma Huang.

 

I'm looking for an herb that will curb my appetite and I just can't find one. Do you have any particular ones you could recommend?

An excessive appetite probably shows some imbalance in your functions that can be corrected by using regulatory formulas. In Chinese herbalism, that might be a formula like (for example) ginseng and astragalus combination. Also, some people create excess food for many reasons. Another cause could be a sugar imbalance. If that's the case, many have found that eating a handful of lycium fruit a couple of times a day for a couple of weeks will help regulate that craving. Also, this is where Ma Huang influences might be helpful under the care of a practitioner. There are also other interesting herbs that have a similar activity called a thermogenic action that helps to burn fat and sometimes reduce appetite. I have another suggestion. Chew your food very well. It's known that after you've eaten for 10 or 15 minutes, it starts to be registered by the body. So if you eat slowly, the body gets in tune with it and you actually end up eating less.

 

What was the first medicinal herb? Guess!

Humans probably used herbs prior to the time they were human. There are excellent studies of monkeys and apes in the jungle that use herbs when they become ill. Humans have probably used herbs since the beginning. The first herbs used for medicine were probably to help ease stomach disorders. The Chinese recorded 360 herbs in the first herbal text written 2500 years ago. They divided the herbs into 3 categories: the superior, general and inferior herbs. The superior herbs were herbs that people could take like food as often as they wanted to promote a long and healthy life. That included herbs like ginseng and reishi mushrooms. The general herbs were considered preventative. They included herbs that helped to nip problems in the bud, like Ma Huang. The inferior herbs were used for infections and diseases. They included herbs similar to Golden Seal. My guess would be that on the medicinal side, an herb like Golden Seal has been used since deep prehistoric times. At the same time, herbs like ginseng have been used to increase energy and resistance equally as long. Heart disease runs ramped in our family; anything from clogged arteries to Marfan's Syndrome.

 

Is there any herb you can suggest for that? Thanks.

First of all, I want to emphasize that if you have a disease or a sickness that you're dealing with, you should always use herbs under the care of a professional, an M.D., or an acupuncturist. And yes, there are excellent herbs that help to improve the functioning, and benefit the functions of the cardiovascular system, including some of the following - gynostemma, notoginseng, salvia root, and carthamus flower. That last is also known as saffron. These herbs help to improve the flow of blood through the vascular system and are in use now around the world in many systems. Two others that are really useful would be hawthorn fruit and leaf, used throughout Europe and Asia. Another is the reishi mushroom. There are many other herbs that are useful. This is an area where the use of herbs is great because they're safe, and if you take them regularly, you keep your arteries clean, prevent plaque from building up, and some improve the actual functioning of the cardiovascular muscle itself. Some prevent inflammations from developing, which could have led to cardiovascular disease. An herb commonly in use now to prevent conditions such as varicose veins is horse chestnut. That herb is being used around the world for that purpose. Also, many times these herbs are combined. That broadens the benefit.

 

I'm sitting here with a god-awful head cold. Besides Echinacea, what can help from an herbal standpoint?

Head colds are, of course, common in winter and spring. This is what Ma Huang formulas were traditionally used for. There are excellent, safe and mild formulas that are quite effective. One is pureria. It's commonly available. That will help clear your head and your sinuses, and speed recovery. It's excellent. It's best, from our point of view, to try to reduce your immune system to avoid the colds in the first place. People take tonic herbs for that purpose. They tend to catch colds less often. The herbs used to build resistance include reishi mushrooms, astragalus, cordyceps, lycium fruit, etc. Also, if someone starts to catch the flu, where they feel a sore throat and that kind of thing, there's Yin Qiao, which has been used for centuries. If taken at the onset of the flu it's extremely effective.

 

You discuss in your book the notion that these tonic herbs are empowering. What do you mean by that? What do these herbs have to do with wisdom?

The herbal tradition in China went along 2 different tracks, united but somewhat different. One was medicinal. The herbs used by doctors to treat sickness after it occurred. The other was called superior herbalism and utilized tonic herbs. Tonic herbalism was developed primarily by the Taoists, and was used to build inner power, inner peace, and balance in the body, balanced mental and psychic functions. The Chinese believed that when the body became strong and balanced and at ease, then the person could more effectively develop their spiritual functions to a higher level. We have found that when people take a real tonic herbal program, using high quality real tonics, that by becoming centered and becoming adaptive, that they can accomplish more; that they can become more creative; that they can handle much more difficulty and overcome it, and therefore achieve more. They develop more vision, their endurance increases, even their depth of feeling can expand. Based on this, people take these herbs and often become more successful. They can accomplish their dreams. Therefore, the herbs, over many centuries, have been used specifically for the purpose of empowerment.

 

What is the best way to take tonic herbs? In what forms do they come?

The tonic herbs have been used for so long that people have used them in every imaginable way. These days people often take them in capsules or pills. They also take them as liquid extracts. You can make them into tea or concentrated beverages. Virtually, any way you can get them into your body. The most convenient ways are the spray-dried concentrated powders in capsule form, or as pre-made drinks. Every type of delivery system can be extremely effective. The most important factor is the attitude of the producer. Assuring that the extraction or production captured the true essence of high quality herbs. I often say that the first rule of herbalism is compliance, meaning that if you don't take the herbs, they won't do you any good. I think that everyone should try to find out which way they like to take the herbs, explore a little, and then get on a program and stick to it.

 

I often feel energized when I have green tea with ginseng - am I imagining this - or does ginseng have that effect?

Ginseng is definitely strengthening. Of course, some of the energy may be from the caffeine in the green tea, but ginseng has both short and long term energy producing benefits. When someone consumes ginseng over time, they should feel stronger than they did before they used it. When they use green tea, it's going to be based on each time you use the tea, since the caffeine works then and not later. But green tea is extremely healthful, because it contains anti-oxidants called polyphenols. They have been proven to slow down aging and even to prevent many kinds of cancer cells from developing. Therefore, it's good to take green tea regularly, and it's good to take ginseng regularly, both which will increase energy and much more!

 

I've read that our ancestors used an herb to prevent pregnancy (which is now extinct) do you know the name of it?

I'm not sure which one that would be. If it's an issue for you, I recommend you see a practitioner.

 

So many Chinese herbs smell...well...BAD! Is there any way around this? Are the westernized versions in gel caps for example as effective?

It's easy to find good tasting Chinese herbs. For example, the higher quality herbs usually tend to taste better, because that's part of what quality is about. Also, tonic herbs tend to be sweet. You might enjoy trying something like lycium fruit and longan fruit; the tea gynostemma too. They all smell and taste very good. Also, most herbs can be obtained encapsulated, where you don't have to smell them. I've described a great number of formulas in my book, which are all made as capsules, which you swallow with water and still get the benefit. So if you don't like the smell, modern science has answered that problem. There are even soft gelcap versions, which completely eliminate smell altogether.

 

I like valerian for anxiety. Is there anything else you recommend?

There are many great herbs in Chinese herbalism that help to relieve anxiety. This is a big and important subject. Herbs that calm anxiety are called shen stabilizers. Shen is our spirit and consciousness. Shen stabilizers help to calm the emotions, relieve anxiety, curb our fear, worry, etc. Some of the most famous herbs of that category include reishi mushroom, which is just fantastic for calming the nerves and lifting our spirits; on a more long-term basis than valerian, too. Other herbs include albizzia flower, and albizzia bark, biota seed, and many others. Often several shen stabilizing herbs are combined together. That produces emotional stabilizing formulas. There's a fantastic formula called Bupleurum and Dragon Bone Formulation. This is world famous for calming anxiety. And it doesn't make you drowsy. I highly recommend that product and the other shen stabilizing herbs. My book describes the whole range of shen stabilizers and other herbs in more detail.

 

Any way to treat hypothyroidism with herbs rather than thyroid replacement hormone?

That's a problem that often requires the person to see a practitioner of Chinese medicine, because that particular imbalance can be caused by a number of factors. I would say that in general many people with hypothyroidism benefit from what are called yang tonic herbs and qi tonic herbs. These include ginseng, licorice root, morinda root, and so on. I recommend that this particular problem be addressed under some kind of professional supervision.

 

How can one find out about potential contraindications between traditional medications and herbal remedies?

There can be contraindications between herbs and conventional western types of medicine. In general, those indications are described in the literature associated with the formula. For example, if a product has a side effect, on the label is should say, for example, "If you are using an MAO inhibitor, don't use this herb." You have to read and study the literature concerning the medicine. If you are using medicine, consult your physician or another expert to determine if herbs are practical and safe. That being said, most of the tonic herbs have been found to be very safe with most conventional western drugs because they tend to be regulatory and generally don't counteract the positive effects of the drugs. But still, when you are under medical supervision or on medication, always consult your physician about using herbs.

 

Is there any problems with St. Johns Wort that you can tell me? My friend says it has weird side effects sometimes.

St. John's Wort has in recent years become very popular as an anti-depressant. Not everyone has found it to be effective. Nor is it always pleasant. I've heard many people who didn't particularly like it. I've also met people who have found it to be excellent. It's not used as an anti-depressant in Chinese tonic herbalism, so my experience with it is rather limited. I would say that people who are using St. John's Wort for depression might be interested in exploring the shen tonics used in Chinese tonic herbalism.

 

I see many multi-marketing companies selling herbal vitamins with all sorts of herbs in them. How are we to know what these all mean?

That's difficult. Some companies have integrity, and some don't. Some have excellent formulators, and some don't care. I think a person has to investigate the company not just for its financial interest or at the surface, but they should find out who invented or created the formulas, obtain the literature available on those formulas, and ask questions to determine how serious that company is. In my opinion, there are some excellent MLM's that make great products and there are many that are just using herbs to make money. So the person interested has to find out by asking questions which kind of company that is. Also, if they study the herbs research the ingredients, then they can determine if the formulations are appropriate.

 

LOL, my cats go nuts when I open some over-the-counter herbal combo-stuff, why is that?

It must be that their natural instincts are responding to the chemicals floating in the air off of these herbs. If they're going nuts in a good way, perhaps they are attracted to it. If they are going nuts in a bad way, maybe you should stop opening them.

 

So, would you suggest a person hunt up a Chinese herbalist and get their 'take' on lifestyle, etc. to get the lowdown on herbs to use?

That's a great idea. The more training you have, and the more guidance you get, the closer you'll come to learning how the herbs will work for you. On the other hand, I believe that the tonic herbs are the greatest herbs on the planet. They build health, they empower people, they protect us, they slow down our aging, they increase our potency and vigor, and many herbalists may be interested in remedies. It's important to try to find an herbalist who wants to build our health and who is interested in using herbs to achieve radiant health. That's better than someone focused on fixing symptoms. Therefore, in seeking out a professional, try to seek out someone interested in promoting your well-being and health, rather than someone who treats problems. That type of herbalist is the 'superior' herbalist, the one who focuses on entire well-being. The other is the 'inferior' herbalist (in ancient Chinese terms). There are more superior herbalists around these days. They focus on letting the body become vital. Try to find that person to guide you.

 

What was the most surprising thing you discovered about herbal medicine?

Simply how truly unbelievably effective herbs are in actually changing my whole life. At first, it may seem subtle. Overtime, though, you discover that these herbs are overwhelmingly powerful in helping you to grow. They're an incredible tool. I understand now why they were so important to the Taoists, to the Buddhists, to shamans around the world. Now it seems totally natural. But for a long time I was surprised that nature could be so nurturing. The last chapter of my book is called "Six Lessons That Tonic Herbs have Taught Me." Most people tell me this is the most important chapter. I wrote it one night when for some reason I woke up with the realization that these herbs have been the strongest revelation in my life. I think if you read that chapter, even if you read ONLY that chapter, you will gain some insight to the potential these herbs have in your life. The six lessons were, faith in nature, patience, self-respect, the value of a positive attitude, the meaning of moderation and that love *is* everything. These were lessons I learned from the herbs. (Over several decades of using them.)

 

Our time is almost up, Ron. Thanks for being with us! Do you have any last thoughts for our audience?

I've just launched a new website. It's http://www.dragonherbs.com. It goes into all of the herbs and formulas we have in the book and more. It has hundreds of pictures. I think you'll enjoy going there. And I hope you enjoy my book. It's meaningful...and has things not on the website. I also hope you'll focus your attention on achieving radiant health...defined in China as "health beyond danger" rather than always looking for remedies. A great truth is that the tonic herbs, even though they are not focused on medicine, can have a greater impact on your health than the remedial ones. Focus positively on your health and you will achieve it. Thank you.

Edited December 7, 2005 by Cameron

[VCraigP]

Lozen

I agree with much of what you have said. It is true that the BEST approach to herbalism is an individual approach. With customized formulation to fit the persons needs at the moment, and to adjust to the changing needs of the person over time.

There is no one size fits all. I agree with what you have said about NOT to take ginseng until older, it is the standard line about ginseng. I am not sure all modern herbalists would agree with this, and TCM is not the most flexible system when it comes to adjusting to modern realities.

 

The problem we have in the modern era is that not everyone has access to the resources of an herbalist, or the education to sort things out for themselves.

I agree with what you have said about extracts, when applied to "Standardized Extracts". Simple hydroalcoholic extracts can be as effective or more so than the original whole herb. But, yes there are good and bad extraction methods and good and bad extraction manufacturers.

 

Make no mistake, Ron T.'s website is CHOCK FULL of marketing hype.

It is also full of information. I don't know and don't care about the credentials of his "master". I do know about his Sourcing of his raw materials, which I believe to be some of the best in the industry. I don't care what martial arts his master does. I care about the connections his wife has in China to get the primo herbs available. There is a LOT of CRAP being sold as quality herbs in china which doesn't contain 5% of the activity it should because it is poorly grown, spoiled with contaminants...etc, etc. This is where Ron gets my support, that and his reputation in the industry of which I am a part.

 

Could YOU do better than taking herbal blends from Ron T? Yes, without doubt.

Could the average consumer do better, quite likely not.

 

I agree with you about jumping on the next magic pill bandwagon. But even for modern Taoists, sometimes convenience wins out.

 

You make a lot of good points. You have a lot of valuable knowledge of herbalism, for sure beyond mine.

 

You requested some backup on the quality of Ron T's products. I have used some of his herbal extracts in simple tincture form and have found them to be very potent.

This is where the strength of his quality comes out, in my opinion. I am not connected to his company, but I know about him. I trust him and I trust my gut when it comes to sensing the quality and integrity of his products.

 

Yeah, Cam may be a bit too high on Tao in a Bottle, and of course it is being hyped with marketing.

 

To throw out the idea of Theanine as an amino acid which is very beneficial by itself I think is perhaps a bit luddite. Do you also disagree with a valuable supplement called Co Q 10? I highly recommend this to people at risk for cardiac health issues, but this is a highly refined product which though naturally occuring and ubiquitous throughout the body, is certainly not produced "naturally". Theanine is NOT just a marketing angle.

 

IN conclusion, I give respect to your tradition. I acknowledge that the IDEAL would be to get all our support through practice, diet, exercise and individualized application of "forgotten foods" (HERBS). This is not possible, or at least not probable for the vast majority. Which is why I try to recommend the best supplement companies I encounter in this industry and throw out a healthy buyer beware about 99% of the rest of them.

[Lozen]

Hey take whatever you want, Cam, I'm not trying to take away your autonomy. I just seem to recall a lot of stories of people spending hundreds of dollars on herbal formulas with a ton of herbs for "general health" instead of specific conditions and then they feel better or don't and then they buy the next best thing.

 

I will have to say that I'm curious about this guy referring certain plants as inferior or superior...which doesn't even seem like a very Taoist concept... is there really reference in the Chinese herbal classics to herbs being "inferior"? I've seen them divided only by elements, whether they are warming/cooling, etc. and of course formulated for the condition/individual... like, is my acupuncturist an "inferior" herbalist because he prescribes herbs for conditions when they are warranted instead of trying to sell everyone something as soon as they come in? Also according to several acupuncturists I've spoken to, the MAJORITY of TCM herbs are used as tonics because it is easier to tonify with herbs and easier to decrease excess with acupuncture. The two work really well together...

 

One last thing...caffeine AND aspirin with ma huang doesn't sound like traditional Chinese herbalism to me...

[Lozen]

hi Craig,

I'm glad you can see the marketting hype for what it is and yours is as good a reason for buying his products as any! I buy Golden Flower herbs for my Chinese meds because I've heard from people in the business as well as from acupuncturists that the plants used are high quality and they harvest ethically.

 

As far as CoQ10 I don't really recommend it because I read once that one would need to have their baseline level checked and also because of the vitamin E toxicity issue. I also seem to remember reading an article by some guy trying to sell some other product who said CoQ10 also causes more free radicals if you have low oxygen states, and recommended his supplement for the low price of 29.95 (or whatever it was). I don't remember all the details. In any case, I don't know much about it but I am very skeptical of any type of ingredient extraction... There are checks and balances in each plant (even in just one PART of the plant) that are just simply not there when you stick it in a lab and take away a key ingredient. The first thing I will do is see what foods are available (in this case garlic, hawthorne berries, etc.) Also for cardiac health issues or if someone actually has or suspects any heart conditions, I will admit that I will only work with people if they are seeing a naturopath or Western doc. It's just too dangeorus.

 

Also if people aren't supposed to take ginseng until older, do you think it's ethical to market a supplement with ginseng in it to everyone?

 

Hmmm, I guess I will disagree a little bit on whether average consumers could do better... It is not too hard to go to a library and find a book about nutrition, it is time-consuming but possible to exercise regularly and get eight hours of sleep, it may be more convenient to down the coffee and aspirin and supplements and continue on one's merry way, but I think it is possible to slow down... except around the holidays.

 

Thanks for the compliments.

 

Lozen