You are all delusional!

[That Guy]

Delusions can be fun, but they can also be harmful.

 

So before you attack me, hear me out....

 

So you have some free time, why waste it "cultivating" what ou can't even prove is real?

Why not sit down and educate yourself in something that matters like science and math?

Why not learn some new skills like painting and sculpting?

 

You sit there for hours at a time doing nothing/meditating. You learn nothing that way (obviously ). Go out watch some TV do something fun at least sheesh! And yeah some enjoy meditating, well they've had to condition themselves to enjoy it because otherwise no one in their right mind would do it everyday for so long. Just for the record I consider relaxing and reflecting on your thoughts different from meditation since true meditation seems to require an empty mind, no thoughts.

 

Chakras....why not learn real medicine, learn about the real chakras, your organs! and stop trying to feel things that are there, but not in some mystical forrm you believe they are. Throw your heart at someone they'll feel it when it smacks them on the head, throw your "heart chakra" at them (if you can find it in the first place ) and they ll feel nothing, because there is nothing there!

 

So much energy here is wasted in fairy tales it's kinda sad

I mean a kid has imaginary friends and experiences we have a laugh and tell them the truth, they imagining things. Now an adult has them and we can do anything, because its been labelled a spiritual or religious experience. Whats up with that?!

 

I also see so much "visualisation" type stuff that it makes me wonder how long one must visualise before they buy into their own fantasy! I dont need to visualise light to see it, sound to hear it, pain to feel it etc because they are real! If my dantian was reaal I would feel it, all I feel is my stomach rumbling

Can you seriously suggest that the majority of people are born lacking the ability to feel and see stuff like this? Are we born handicapped and need to "cultivate" in order to regain our full power? please!

 

Yes I know look at was some awesome masters can do, well they practice martial arts or do exercises that allow them to do these things, its more about conditioning their body rather than cultivating! I wanna see someone who cultivates their body without conditioning it do some crazy thing like a 1 finger pushup or whatever.

 

As for some of the masters seen doing mystical things on video, well if they ve done it for the camera why not do it one more time for some top and i mean TOP! scientists to see?!? Dont give me that "they wont listen to us" stuff because all they have to do is walk up to them, there is no need for the first meeting to be some kinda formal encounter. Just g to the top biologist and zap him with some bio energy, he ll make time for you then!

 

And yes monks dry wett cloth in really cold conditions etc, but thats because they ve mastered their bodies functions. We can all raise our bodies temperature for example, not at will but we can, go get a fever you ll see! No energy none sense needed!

 

This is getting long, so I should end it! The more I look into this stuff the more it seems like some kinda cult, it may not harm you, but lets just say you could be spending your time doing something better and being happier as a result, you may think you re happy thanks to this stuff, but you re just being happy because you re delusional.

 

I dont mean to offend any of you, and chances are I wont, because my words probably wont break through the barrier of delusions built over time. I hope you read the whole post, sorry its long...

 

Thank you for reading

[Stigweard]

What sort of response would you like to your post?

[Iyoiyo]

Something useful? Something that matters, like science and math? Go out and do something fun? None of us can decide, or usually even interpret, what matters to someone else. I understand you want to help we who you perceive as "us," but the people you're talking to probably don't exist.

 

There are many different types of users on this board and, like any population anywhere, they are all different. Not all of us research our "chakra's," I doubt many, if any, meditate for hours at a time. As an aside, you can learn things through meditation, and meditation does not mean thinking of nothing; although, that is sometimes what people try to do under a certain definition. Perhaps you would be interested in learning more about what meditation can be. In most cases it means deep thinking.

 

The more you look into "this stuff" the more it seems like some kind of cult, you say. I think you may be seeing what you want to see. Like I said before, this board is not a unified and cohesive group following some sort of rules. It's just a collection of people who, somehow or another, ended up here one day and found the conversation interesting.

 

We are not, at least I never thought we were, devoted to developing the mystical powers you mentioned. I'll put down this story, as I really like it, and because I think it explains this idea perfectly:

 

One disciple is bragging about his master to the disciple of another master. He claims that his teacher is capable of all sorts of magical acts, like writing in the air with a brush, and having the characters appear on a piece of paper hundreds of feet away. "And what can YOUR master do?" he asks the other disciple. "My master can also perform amazing feats," the other student replies. "When he's tired, he sleeps. When hungry, he eats"........... or simply, "When he sleeps, he sleeps. When he eats, he eats."

 

You see? We are not trying to become wizards. I, at least, and probably most of us here, are just trying to abide by the simplest and truest common sense, or true intuition, or whatever, that has become to be known as Tao.

The simple sensibility required to rest your body when tired, rather than staying up later to work/recreate out of disproportionate desire is more uncommon than you might think.

 

I should listen to who I am, and what I'm trying to do.

[Aetherous]

We each decide our lives. Some people like to have a quiet life. Some people like to join spiritual forums to tell everyone that they're delusional. No choice is wrong.

[Marblehead]

Well,

 

I was going to make comment but Iyoiyo has done much better than I would have so I will just remain silent except to say that it is always an error to stereotype any form of group of people because as soon as you do the one that it doesn't apply to will step forward and tell you just how wrong you are.

 

Our delusions may be useful or useless to each of us individually. There is no standard.

 

Happy Trails!

[ryansmith]

Delusions can be fun, but they can also be harmful.

 

So before you attack me, hear me out....

 

So you have some free time, why waste it "cultivating" what ou can't even prove is real?

Why not sit down and educate yourself in something that matters like science and math?

Why no learn some new skills like painting and sculpting?

 

You sit there for hours at a time doing nothing/meditating. You learn nothing that way (obviously ). Go out watch some TV do something fun at least sheesh! And yeah some enjoy meditating, well they ve had to condition themselves to enjoy it because otherwise no in their right mind would do it everyday for so long. Just for the record I consider relaxing and reflecting on your thoughts different from meditation since true meditation seems to require an empty mind, no thoughts.

 

Chakras....why not learn real medicine, learn about the real chakras, your organs! and stop trying to feel things that are there, but not in some mystical forrm you believe they are. Throw your heart at someone they'll feel it when it smacks them on the head, throw your "heart chakra" at them (if you can find it in the first place ) and they ll feel nothing, because there is nothing there!

 

So much energy here is wasted in fairy tales it's kinda sad

I mean a kid has imaginary friends and experiences we have a laugh and tell them the truth, they imagining things. Now an adult has them and we can do anything, because its been labelled a spiritual or religious experience. Whats up with that?!

 

I also see so much "visualisation" type stuff that it makes me wonder how long one must visualise before they buy into their own fantasy! I dont need to visualise light to see it, sound to hear it, pain to feel it etc because they are real! If my dantian was reaal I would feel it, all I feel is my stomach rumbling

Can you seriously suggest that the majority of people are born lacking the ability to feel and see stuff like this? Are we born handicapped and need to "cultivate" in order to regain our full power? please!

 

Yes I know look at was some awesome masters can do, well they practice martial arts or do exercises that allow them to do these things, its more about conditioning their body rather than cultivating! I wanna see someone who cultivates their body without conditioning it do some crazy thing like a 1 finger pushup or whatever.

 

As for some of the masters seen doing mystical things on video, well if they ve done it for the camera why not do it one more time for some top and i mean TOP! scientists to see?!? Dont give me that "they wont listen to us" stuff because all they have to do is walk up to them, there is no need for the first meeting to be some kinda formal encounter. Just g to the top biologist and zap him with some bio energy, he ll make time for you then!

 

And yes monks dry wett cloth in really cold conditions etc, but thats because they ve mastered their bodies functions. We can all raise our bodies temperature for example, not at will but we can, go get a fever you ll see! No energy none sense needed!

 

This is getting long, so I should end it! The more I look into this stuff the more it seems like some kinda cult, it may not harm you, but lets just say you could be spending your time doing something better and being happier as a result, you may think you re happy thanks to this stuff, but you re just being happy because you re delusional.

 

I dont mean to offend any of you, and chances are I wont, because my words probably wont break through the barrier of delusions built over time. I hope you read the whole post, sorry its long...

 

Thank you for reading

 

 

I can play the piano, ski, go skydiving, etc... but the one thing for me that makes all of these things even more enjoyable is meditation. For me it's like taking my life and amplifying every experience so I can have more fun, more love, more happiness, more peace. Maybe meditation not something for you, and I respect that, but to me it has had a profound impact. I wish you the very best in your life pursuits, and one day you may find that meditation makes math and science more enjoyable to you.

[Lucky7Strikes]

That Guy,

 

You're the one missing out. Not us. .

[That Guy]

Please dont play that perception card, its so cheap...

 

You can perceive what you like thats true, but the best perception will have the best results, and the the best perception comes from a good solid foundation on the reality you live in.

 

" None of us can decide, or usually even interpret, what matters to someone else"

Well I can! so I must be enlightened. Or it could be because instead of sitting there thinking "i cant possibly know that" I go and figure it out. This state of mind "i dont really know anything" is ridiculous!

 

The conversation is interesting, but so are comic books, difference is comic books will not try to sell themselves as being true

 

If you re doing something wrong would you not want to correct it?So you can end up with something better?

 

"We each decide our lives. Some people like to have a quiet life. Some people like to join spiritual forums to tell everyone that they're delusional. No choice is wrong."

 

No its not wrong, but it is a mistake, because it could be better! I feel some are cheating themselves out f what could be, thats what makes me sad....

 

I can stereotype things which are based on an idea though, because doesnt matter how many different types of people there are that believe it, if the idea is wrong its wrong!

 

 

 

 

Stigward, you re a cool fellow in my books, I guess I m seeking opinions of the delusional, or something that proves they aren't delusional. If there is reason to believe you arent delusional present it! And as you look for that reason you might just find more of a reason to believe you are.

 

 

And for the recrd I m not an atheist I m very open to the possibility of life after death, a god, a greater purpose etc. But you know, if we were meant to see gods, talk to spirits, feel mystical energy we would have been granted that. If we havent been given those gifts and knowledge in this realm what makes you think god would slip up and leave you free to regain these by siting around doin nothing or special exercises?

 

 

And one last thing, i m more after the spiritual side of things or people making spiritual sense out of what is obviously physical like the requirements of your body for example.

 

 

Addendum:

 

ryansmith, you have an active lifestyle, but instead of stopping and meditating why not ski more for example? unless you need the break why stop?

 

While you meditate do you remember "i was skiing yay!" and become happy again? or whilst you ski you think " i cant wait to meditate on this experience it will be awesome!" I m sorry I just dont get how meditation enhances your other experiences...

 

"You're the one missing out. Not us. ."

been there tried that, all I missed out on was the extra time I could have spent doing something else, sorry...

Edited September 26, 2009 by That Guy

[Aetherous]

No its not wrong, but it is a mistake, because it could be better! I feel some are cheating themselves out f what could be, thats what makes me sad....

 

Cool. It doesn't make them sad...but feel free to try and save people from their own decisions.

[11:33]

If you had learned from a high-level master you might not be talking so much silliness, That Guy.

 

There's more to life than you think. Suffice to say that qi is absolutely real. Zero doubt whatsoever for me. And the rabbit hole goes much further than that (yi leads qi)

 

I'm not going to spend much time explaining it to you though, because I don't do that (it's policy)

[Creation]

Nice of you to bring this up. Since you have accused us all of being delusional, do you really expect a reasonable answer? But I shall nevertheless try.

 

From whence do you derive your priorities? I.e. that math and physics are important, thing that you deem unscientific are not. Please consider that someone not share that the priorities of current Western intelligence and not be delusional. "The culture that I identify with has the correct priorities and value system" is a common thing, and it is only natural to think other systems strange and backward, but saying "You are all delusional" will never allow you to see beyond your views. Instead, try "I might think my values are basically right, and better than other cultures, but I acknowledge that I don't know everything and can learn from others who have different views than I do." Now if you can do that, read on.

 

You mentioned meditation being useless (if you don't buy into all that enlightenment mumbo jumbo). I counter that learning to bring the mind to single minded focus free from distractions has undeniable usefulness, and also that "mindfulness meditation" based on Buddhist meditation has been found to be useful in treating things like anxiety disorders. You also mentioned that the heart an actual thing as opposed to the heart chakra, and likewise the other organs are more real than other chakras. So your recommendation is to read books about organs? Can you feel you liver? Spleen? Have you considered that learning to feel your organs is more important than reading about their cellular function? That if everyone was actually in touch with their physical body's functions (not even getting into energy) people would be much more healthy (because they could feel the results of unhealthy behaviors in real time) and medical diagnosis would be much easier? So I challenge you to learn to bring your mind to single pointed focus and feel the functions of your body, and if you can do this and not feel anything similar to what the ancient Chinese call chi, THEN you can call people who believe in chi delusional. Actually, this is the error in your argument "If chi exists everyone should be able to feel it." People's senses are incredibly degraded because of atrophy. So people can't even feel inside their own bodies unless they have terrible pain! How can you then expect them to feel something more subtle?

 

However, there are lots of people who believe in chakras and chi who have never really felt them, and those who say they have could have just convinced themselves they were feeling it by overzealous visualization. (Incidentally, ancient Taoist understood that this could happen and called it "mental wind".) THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION. I'm glad you brought this up because people need to KEEP IT REAL and not go off the deep end with things they don't understand. But it's human nature to do this. People can read the latest popular science book and think they know the secrets of the universe. But they don't, they just read someone else's explanation of it. Perhaps it is the same with chi and chakras?

 

I must note here that you have as much personal experience with DNA and electrons as with chi. But you believe in the former because you trust scientists. It is a matter of authority. Who should I trust? Of course, chi is not nearly as scientifically understood as protons and electrons, but first you must establish that it is a phenomenon worth investigating, then an investigation can be made. Real scientist have to have faith that they are doing something that will lead somewhere even if they can't prove it scientifically (pun intended). Good science was never done by people who didn't have faith in what they were doing. So, you should read "Mysteries of the Life Force: My Apprenticeship with a Chi Kung Master" by Peter Meech. As he describes his experiences, ask yourself "Is this person completely delusional, or might he have accessed something beyond normal experience in the same way that a scientist accesses the reality of protons and electrons?"

Edited September 26, 2009 by Creation

[Iyoiyo]

You may bring proofs to me attempting to prove knowledge. You say it's ridiculous to think that some things cannot be known. But consider this: You may think you know the cause of things, but you do not. You may think, "I ate the cookie because I was hungry, because I exercised earlier, because I wanted to go skiing, because my parents raised me near mountains and brought me up skiing, because their parents did so too, because their parents immigrated to America, . . . because people come from somewhere. It's raining. That's because water is condensing in the air and falling down, that's because it evaporated from the ground, where it collected because it fell from the sky.

 

You cannot logically claim to know anything unless you know the original cause. Do you know the original cause? Everything you claim to know can be questioned. How did you know the thing that led you to that conclusion? Eventually you will be forced to reveal that you have no idea. This is an experience which we often encounter when talking with children-- the endless Why of childhood. Nobody knows the answer.

 

Unless you do ^__^

 

how pleasant it must be.

[Lucky7Strikes]

"You're the one missing out. Not us. ."

been there tried that, all I missed out on was the extra time I could have spent doing something else, sorry...

 

What were your intentions?

[Marblehead]

Hi That Guy,

 

Okay. I will respond to this one.

 

You can perceive what you like thats true, but the best perception will have the best results, and the the best perception comes from a good solid foundation on the reality you live in.

 

I won't disagree with this. However, maybe one of those people you are talking about needs this time in their life in order to grasp their current condition? So they are trying to find way to answer their questions because their questions or conditions are preventing them from doing what you suggest.

 

" None of us can decide, or usually even interpret, what matters to someone else"

Well I can! so I must be enlightened. Or it could be because instead of sitting there thinking "i cant possibly know that" I go and figure it out. This state of mind "i dont really know anything" is ridiculous!

 

No you cannot! You have no idea. All you can say for sure is what you feel is best for you. You may be enlightened; I cannot judge that. I don't know anything about anything I cannot know anything about. Now please, using rational logic prove that I am wrong with this statement.

 

The conversation is interesting, but so are comic books, difference is comic books will not try to sell themselves as being true

 

You are correct. So we each must do our own questioning and searching for our answers. We have heard such and such that might help us in our search. What is wrong with checking to see if it might work for us? Scientists do that every day.

 

If you re doing something wrong would you not want to correct it?So you can end up with something better?

 

And who is it that is making all these 'wrong', 'correct'and 'better' judgements? And for whom are they making these judgements?

 

"We each decide our lives. Some people like to have a quiet life. Some people like to join spiritual forums to tell everyone that they're delusional. No choice is wrong."

 

That first sentence is so true, isn't it? So why are you telling anyone else what is 'better' for them?

 

No its not wrong, but it is a mistake, because it could be better! I feel some are cheating themselves out f what could be, thats what makes me sad....

 

Well, I actually agree with you. But there are effective ways of helping others and there are ways of butting into other people's business and getting blown away. Instead of being sad why don't you join one of the discussions here and try to give some good, logical and rational suggestions?

 

I can stereotype things which are based on an idea though, because doesnt matter how many different types of people there are that believe it, if the idea is wrong its wrong!

 

Again, who is making that judgement? But even if an idea is wrong, rather than make generalized statements I would think that if you truely wanted to help others to better their life you would join in the discussions and submit your suggestions with good sound supporting information.

 

And for the recrd I m not an atheist I m very open to the possibility of life after death, a god, a greater purpose etc. But you know, if we were meant to see gods, talk to spirits, feel mystical energy we would have been granted that. If we havent been given those gifts and knowledge in this realm what makes you think god would slip up and leave you free to regain these by siting around doin nothing or special exercises?

And one last thing, i m more after the spiritual side of things or people making spiritual sense out of what is obviously physical like the requirements of your body for example.

 

Werll, for the record, I am an Atheist. But I don't normally label myself as such. I prefer the label "Philosophical Taoist".

 

Are you suggesting that we are all created equal? Some people are more attracted to the spiritual aspects of life while others are more attracted to the physical aspect of life. And then there are all those who are somewhere between the two. We all do not respond in exactly the same way to an identical stimulus.

 

"You're the one missing out. Not us. ."

been there tried that, all I missed out on was the extra time I could have spent doing something else, sorry...

 

Okay. So it didn't work out for you so you considered it useless. But everyone here is not like you. Maybe, just maybe, it is working for others and they find it useful. Only that individual has the right to say whether or not they should continue the practice.

 

Happy Trails!

[That Guy]

If you had learned from a high-level master you might not be talking so much silliness, That Guy.

 

There's more to life than you think. Suffice to say that qi is absolutely real. Zero doubt whatsoever for me. And the rabbit hole goes much further than that (yi leads qi)

 

I'm not going to spend much time explaining it to you though, because I don't do that (it's policy)

 

Yes I know its secret, only the ones who prove themselves worthy can be shown the truth. So lame seriously! Masters seems more like kids if thats their attitude.

"Master Somesome is chi real?"

"Yes... yes it is..."

"Could you show us?"

"Sorry only members of my little club are allowed to see it"

They re fake, if they werent fake they d at least make an effort to prove it real, they dont have to teach other how to use it, just prove its real, but they dont because they cant! They could revolutionise the world by proving it, and any real master would....

What are they afraid of?! i mean seriously!? publicity? fame? too many students? making an evil person powerful?

 

I d asy a guy with a machine gun is fa more dangerous than a guy who can shoot some chi at people after spending 10 years training. Proving chi would expose people who use it for negative reasons too, thats another plus, so if its real masters might be selfish or cowards, do you have another reason why they d keep it to themselves?

 

 

Scotty I dnt know if I can save anyone, but I want them to take a good look at what they ve really gained spending their time and money on stuff like this and if it was worth it.

[Aetherous]

Scotty I dnt know if I can save anyone, but I want them to take a good look at what they ve really gained spending their time and money on stuff like this and if it was worth it.

 

It's a great question for them to ask themselves.

[Lucky7Strikes]

What are they afraid of?! i mean seriously!? publicity? fame? too many students? making an evil person powerful?

 

These are very valid reasons. Going public can be disastrous (we've seen a few examples of this). True seekers are expected to seek out the masters and teachers. Taoist cultivation is not a child's play: Certain practices are very dangerous if done without a proper guide.

 

I d asy a guy with a machine gun is fa more dangerous than a guy who can shoot some chi at people after spending 10 years training.

 

This quote actually displays how much you've actually "been there done that." .

Edited September 27, 2009 by Lucky7Strikes

[11:33]

Yes I know its secret, only the ones who prove themselves worthy can be shown the truth. So lame seriously! Masters seems more like kids if thats their attitude.

"Master Somesome is chi real?"

"Yes... yes it is..."

"Could you show us?"

"Sorry only members of my little club are allowed to see it"

They re fake, if they werent fake they d at least make an effort to prove it real, they dont have to teach other how to use it, just prove its real, but they dont because they cant! They could revolutionise the world by proving it, and any real master would....

What are they afraid of?! i mean seriously!? publicity? fame? too many students? making an evil person powerful?

 

I d asy a guy with a machine gun is fa more dangerous than a guy who can shoot some chi at people after spending 10 years training. Proving chi would expose people who use it for negative reasons too, thats another plus, so if its real masters might be selfish or cowards, do you have another reason why they d keep it to themselves?

Scotty I dnt know if I can save anyone, but I want them to take a good look at what they ve really gained spending their time and money on stuff like this and if it was worth it.

I never said anything about a secret. When discussing things, it is good to be careful what words you put in which peoples' mouths.

 

My teacher Wong Kiew Kit teaches any deserving student who can follow our 10 Shaolin Laws (school rules basically, not meant to be generalized beyond our school's bounds). And willing to travel to see him in Malaysia or attend a regional course in Europe and sometimes the US.

 

I can feel chi. I need no more proof than that. Just like no one needs to convince me that wind is 'real'...

 

What have I really gained spending my time and money on this stuff? Everything. It's changed my life in a large way.

 

Not all 'masters' are real. But not all are NOT real either.

 

That Guy,

 

Reading your further posts it seems clear that you have decided that based on your limited experience you now are the authority on what is 'real'.

 

Look deeper into that, and you will see that isn't a logically sound thought process.

 

Good luck in all your endeavors.

[goldisheavy]

Delusions can be fun, but they can also be harmful.

 

So before you attack me, hear me out....

 

So you have some free time, why waste it "cultivating" what ou can't even prove is real?

Why not sit down and educate yourself in something that matters like science and math?

Why no learn some new skills like painting and sculpting?

 

I hear ya. I know what you mean, exactly. You have a firm belief in what you perceive to be real, and you think anything that does not match that belief is not real. It's only natural. Within your validation framework, science is the only thing that matters. What you should try to understand, if you can, is that there are other validation frameworks that are different from yours.

 

Validation framework is that, within you, which either confirms or disconfirms experiences as real. So, for example, if you see a tree fly up into the sky, and you instantly think that's a hallucination or a David Copperfield trick, that's your validation framework at work. Your validation framework centers around what you believe is the ultimate nature of reality. Most likely (999/1000 chance) you are not even conscious of your beliefs about ultimate reality and you just go off your intuition right now.

 

Perception and mind are more powerful than you give them credit and the effects you can achieve with some spiritual training can be more lasting than you imagine.

[ryansmith]

 

 

ryansmith, you have an active lifestyle, but instead of stopping and meditating why not ski more for example? unless you need the break why stop?

 

While you meditate do you remember "i was skiing yay!" and become happy again? or whilst you ski you think " i cant wait to meditate on this experience it will be awesome!" I m sorry I just dont get how meditation enhances your other experiences...

 

 

 

I don't ask myself any of these questions, as meditation helps me to be more present in whatever I may doing. Meditation helps one to achieve a kind of absorption in what he/she is doing. So instead of skiing and thinking of the homework I have, things i have to do, I am completely at peace at what I am doing. I can than take the feeling of skiing, jumping out of planes, that extreme adrenaline rush and fun vibe and run energy and make every experience, whether it be sitting in class or watching tv just as enjoyable. It's not as much something I can explain but something you would have to experience and judge for yourself.

[That Guy]

There is so much to read and reply to, I m just gonna try and get the gist of it, sorry if I miss some of the points you guys have spent your time making, but please understand the flurry I must try to reply to

 

Ok first I trust science because it must be proven (yes not everywhere, but somethings we are not able to prove yet for many reasons). Science is about repeating an experiment and getting the same results, and based on these discoveries of how things work we can do and create great things.

 

I trust my judgement, because I have a huge ego but seriously, because I have no real attachment to your spiritual practices and see no real benefit in them I can conclude you'd be better off doing something else which carries greater benefit.

 

I'm glad masters of the past brought up the "mental wind" problem, however how can we know the master didnt have mental wind? He could be seeing chi as blue, then his student says "master master i saw chi, its green!" master says "sorry its blue, you have mental wind"

 

I want repeatable, authentic spirituality, its too all over the place, and has too many gaps. Its like a bad excuse, you know the person making it is lying cause theyre inconsistent and withhold important info

 

Again sorry to miss any points you make...

 

 

Lucky7Strikes, you are lucky, because I will reply more directly to you

 

Like I said before, no need for teaching your dangerous practice, just prove that its real, chi exists! You can cultivate it and use it! Even if the whole world seeks the master out he doesnt have to accept all the students!

We all know nuclear weapons exist, we havent all been taught how to make one, we dont have this kinda info or materials for it left lying around for all to use either.

Its good they teach us about it though, so we can all know about them and what they re capable of.

 

 

Yeah I read kostas book, the story of liaou sifu (think that was his name) who took out a whole village with his chi, did more than any machine gun could thats for sure! But for that story to matter it would ave to be true. Show me! please! Show me something that proves such power is possible!

 

You know you remind me of this guy whose posts I read called "SeanDenty" I think it was, the guy was freakin awesome!! his stories were crazy cool yo! but well, thats just the problem, they were stories with nothing to back them up...

 

 

Someone asked my intentions when trying this stuff, simply put it was to find out for myself. And I read and practised what I could find here and there, and some is body function info some lucid dreaming stuff, some meditation and whatever else i came across. none of it really benefited me though, it was more like yeah ok thats that then...

I meditated and OBEd most consistently, until I just realised, well this really isnt going anywhere, I m wasting my time taking this seriously.

[Birch]

The whole reason I'm doing any of this stuff is because I know I'm delusional and would like a better understanding of it.

 

When I'm not working towards undeluding myself online in the company of fun - and mostly smart, with a few exceptions- people (NB try talking about this shit with just anyone and see what happens;-)), I work at same offline.

 

I dig learning all kinds of ways to do this, including (and not limited to): statistical analysis, sociology, cultural anthropology, neuroscience, biology, psychology, cooking, sports, design and business.

 

I dig mind/body connective practices (not that they're not connected, but you get the point). Also, Taoism and KAP are super sexy-fying, so I am now learning to undelude others with all of my loving intentions;-)

 

Also, it's fun.

[longrhythm]

Here's the real question- if your time is too valuable to waste on cultivation or meditation, if it's better spent "out there doing something real", then why spend time on an internet forum trying to convince people that you know how they should spend their time? And all else aside- qi prana chakra meditate any nonsense you might wanna identify- do you think humility is real? Cause if you do, you need to find some dude. Telling someone else how to spend their personal time is ARROGANT. Take a look at the chip on your shoulder that's driven you to waste your time on a fruitless assault through a cowards means on peoples MEDITATION PRACTICE. You don't even have the balls to pick on a SPIRITUAL TYPE in person?? Let me tell you this- as a boxer who has used meditation to great effect to cool my nerves and triple my peak performance capacity in the ring, if you don't believe meditation is real, give me your address. I'll bring the gear. And when the bell rings, see if you can control your heart rate while I'm smiling inside and out and smacking the shit out of you at the same time.

 

Punk ass.

 

Delusions can be fun, but they can also be harmful.

 

So before you attack me, hear me out....

 

So you have some free time, why waste it "cultivating" what ou can't even prove is real?

Why not sit down and educate yourself in something that matters like science and math?

Why no learn some new skills like painting and sculpting?

 

You sit there for hours at a time doing nothing/meditating. You learn nothing that way (obviously ). Go out watch some TV do something fun at least sheesh! And yeah some enjoy meditating, well they ve had to condition themselves to enjoy it because otherwise no in their right mind would do it everyday for so long. Just for the record I consider relaxing and reflecting on your thoughts different from meditation since true meditation seems to require an empty mind, no thoughts.

 

Chakras....why not learn real medicine, learn about the real chakras, your organs! and stop trying to feel things that are there, but not in some mystical forrm you believe they are. Throw your heart at someone they'll feel it when it smacks them on the head, throw your "heart chakra" at them (if you can find it in the first place ) and they ll feel nothing, because there is nothing there!

 

So much energy here is wasted in fairy tales it's kinda sad

I mean a kid has imaginary friends and experiences we have a laugh and tell them the truth, they imagining things. Now an adult has them and we can do anything, because its been labelled a spiritual or religious experience. Whats up with that?!

 

I also see so much "visualisation" type stuff that it makes me wonder how long one must visualise before they buy into their own fantasy! I dont need to visualise light to see it, sound to hear it, pain to feel it etc because they are real! If my dantian was reaal I would feel it, all I feel is my stomach rumbling

Can you seriously suggest that the majority of people are born lacking the ability to feel and see stuff like this? Are we born handicapped and need to "cultivate" in order to regain our full power? please!

 

Yes I know look at was some awesome masters can do, well they practice martial arts or do exercises that allow them to do these things, its more about conditioning their body rather than cultivating! I wanna see someone who cultivates their body without conditioning it do some crazy thing like a 1 finger pushup or whatever.

 

As for some of the masters seen doing mystical things on video, well if they ve done it for the camera why not do it one more time for some top and i mean TOP! scientists to see?!? Dont give me that "they wont listen to us" stuff because all they have to do is walk up to them, there is no need for the first meeting to be some kinda formal encounter. Just g to the top biologist and zap him with some bio energy, he ll make time for you then!

 

And yes monks dry wett cloth in really cold conditions etc, but thats because they ve mastered their bodies functions. We can all raise our bodies temperature for example, not at will but we can, go get a fever you ll see! No energy none sense needed!

 

This is getting long, so I should end it! The more I look into this stuff the more it seems like some kinda cult, it may not harm you, but lets just say you could be spending your time doing something better and being happier as a result, you may think you re happy thanks to this stuff, but you re just being happy because you re delusional.

 

I dont mean to offend any of you, and chances are I wont, because my words probably wont break through the barrier of delusions built over time. I hope you read the whole post, sorry its long...

 

Thank you for reading

[That Guy]

I never said anything about a secret. When discussing things, it is good to be careful what words you put in which peoples' mouths.

 

My teacher Wong Kiew Kit teaches any deserving student who can follow our 10 Shaolin Laws (school rules basically, not meant to be generalized beyond our school's bounds). And willing to travel to see him in Malaysia or attend a regional course in Europe and sometimes the US.

 

I can feel chi. I need no more proof than that. Just like no one needs to convince me that wind is 'real'...

 

What have I really gained spending my time and money on this stuff? Everything. It's changed my life in a large way.

 

Not all 'masters' are real. But not all are NOT real either.

 

That Guy,

 

Reading your further posts it seems clear that you have decided that based on your limited experience you now are the authority on what is 'real'.

 

Look deeper into that, and you will see that isn't a logically sound thought process.

 

Good luck in all your endeavors.

I wouldnt want you to break your rules.

 

But how do you know what you feel is chi?! If it can be felt whats the hold up? whats taking so long for its discovery and acceptance into the knowledge bank of the world?

 

I m glad it seems to have changed your life in a large and positive way it seems, but so does taking LSd for some.

 

Goldisheavy

 

cant you say the same the other way around? You have some vivid fantasy and according to your belief you ll see it as something more than "mind wind"?

 

The difference is I believe is what can be proven not to be just mind wind but real.

 

 

Ryan

 

Well if it works for you great, but you know you dont have to meditate to live in the moment, you can just live in the moment, and spend that extra time skiing some more and living that moment too. But thats just me, maybe I ve cultivated in some way more than i m aware of.

[11:33]

I trust my judgement, because I have a huge ego but seriously, because I have no real attachment to your spiritual practices and see no real benefit in them I can conclude you'd be better off doing something else which carries greater benefit.

 

...

 

Someone asked my intentions when trying this stuff, simply put it was to find out for myself. And I read and practised what I could find here and there, and some is body function info some lucid dreaming stuff, some meditation and whatever else i came across. none of it really benefited me though, it was more like yeah ok thats that then...

I meditated and OBEd most consistently, until I just realised, well this really isnt going anywhere, I m wasting my time taking this seriously.

 

You trust your judgment on your life. Sure, makes sense. Except you don't realize how limiting your thought process is. You basically are acting like every teaching is the same, when really there is a huge variety of both type and quality of teaching. Did you ever learn directly from a master? And if he/she was a master were they REALLY a master? If not, then basically you are deluding yourself. You think you know what all this stuff is about and you haven't even done the fundamentals/basics => find a genuine master and do what they say!

 

If you have done the basics, and found (what you thought was) a real master, then I agree with you. If your practice feels like a waste, then it probably is. If you aren't getting anything out of it then stop doing it. Very sensible, and I agree. The important thing here is to be absolutely sure you were learning from a real master. If you weren't then once again you'd be deluding yourself, as you would be acting like you know what a real master could offer, even though you had never actually learned from one.

 

My teacher has changed my life profoundly.

 

Qi is real. If you're not experiencing it, find a better teacher. That's the short version, and not meant to be insulting.

 

All the Best,

Alex

 

 

I wouldnt want you to break your rules.

 

But how do you know what you feel is chi?! If it can be felt whats the hold up? whats taking so long for its discovery and acceptance into the knowledge bank of the world?

 

I m glad it seems to have changed your life in a large and positive way it seems, but so does taking LSd for some.

 

I'm not breaking any rules. Of course.

 

I know what I feel is chi because it follows all the markers of what chi is. How do you know what you feel blowing outside is wind?

 

You know there was a time when they couldn't measure wind either. They didn't have the technology for it.