Can lions achieve liberation in a buddhist sence?

[mewtwo]

So does anyone one know if lions or other animals can achieve liberation in there lifetime in a buddhist sence?

 

If they cant is there anyway one could help them achieve it in there lifetime?

[goldisheavy]

So does anyone one know if lions or other animals can achieve liberation in there lifetime in a buddhist sence?

 

If they cant is there anyway one could help them achieve it in there lifetime?

 

This is a slightly confused question. Man's concrete form is not what achieves liberation, in fact, it's a limitation of self-delineation that Buddha talked about. Why was Buddha said to be liberated? It was because Buddha was no longer caught up in self-delineation. Remember the Sutta where Buddha was asked if he was a man? An divine being? A ghost? An Buddha kept answering that the mental formations that define one as a man are not present here, mental formations that define one as a ghost are not present here, etc...? Remember that? That's pretty much the essence of liberation. So if Buddha thinks "I am Buddha" in a very specific and concrete manner, he's still not liberated, because that's a limiting self-delineation right there.

 

Now if you understand what this means, and if you experience even a tiny of measure of this in your life, then you wouldn't be asking silly questions about lions like that.

[Aetherous]

Lions can't, but bears can.

[Birch]

I dunno, but check out what those domestic cats can often do:

 

- get into a warm and loving environment

- get fed

- get your shit picked up for you

- get tickled (more if you make cute purr noises)

- sleep all day in a pool of sunlight

 

All that just for being furry and cute.

 

I think I'd said elsewhere on here that I might as well get my fur and tail back...

[mewtwo]

I think i understand what you are saying, is that it is not the phisical manifestation but the spiritual manuifestation or soul that achieves liberation. But could a lion's soul do it or would it have to become human?

[Marblehead]

 

I think I'd said elsewhere on here that I might as well get my fur and tail back...

 

Not sure where you said it but I remember it being said very recently.

 

Happy Trails!

[Pero]

So does anyone one know if lions or other animals can achieve liberation in there lifetime in a buddhist sence?

 

Generally no, because they don't have access to Buddhist teachings.

 

If they cant is there anyway one could help them achieve it in there lifetime?

 

Generally no, not in their lifetime.

[thelerner]

So does anyone one know if animals can acheive liberation in there lifetime in a buddhist sense?

 

I asked this question to a cow once. It said "MU"

 

Good enough for me.

 

[mewtwo]

Could one reincarnatre as a lion or other animal and help them? like tell them what to do so they became a human being and were able to become liberated?

[goldisheavy]

I think i understand what you are saying, is that it is not the phisical manifestation but the spiritual manuifestation or soul that achieves liberation. But could a lion's soul do it or would it have to become human?

 

I think this would be a fair and acceptable simplification of what I said, but not exactly what I said. So to use your language, a lion's soul may become human-like in due time, maybe. And maybe that's necessary for that lion to be liberated. But maybe for another lion it's not necessary. Liberation works in inconceivable variety of ways due to unique mentality affecting various sentient beings. I would say that while it's possible that a sentient being who perceives oneself to be a lion goes through a phase of perceiving oneself to be a human, it's not the only one possible way. It's also possible that some humans may need to perceive themselves to be lions before they can be liberated.

 

Don't take my word for any of this though. I suggest to investigate this matter yourself to the best of your ability and see what makes sense to you.

 

Could one reincarnatre as a lion or other animal and help them? like tell them what to do so they became a human being and were able to become liberated?

 

 

Are you assuming that humans are wiser and more compassionate than lions? I would investigate this assumption before I reincarnated as anything.

Edited September 27, 2009 by goldisheavy

[mewtwo]

I actualy believe we are at the same level for most stuff.

[Dainin]

In my opinion, from the very beginning all wild lions are fully liberated.

They do not need to achieve it, because their actions are pure expressions

of lion-ness.

 

Only those whose karma leads them to be captured by humans

and wind up in zoos, circuses or Las Vegas lose this liberation,

and enter the hell realms.

[goldisheavy]

In my opinion, from the very beginning all wild lions are fully liberated.

They do not need to achieve it, because their actions are pure expressions

of lion-ness.

 

Only those whose karma leads them to be captured by humans

and wind up in zoos, circuses or Las Vegas lose this liberation,

and enter the hell realms.

 

I could almost agree to this, but there is one hitch. Liberation is not something that can be easily lost. If something is easily lost, it's not liberation but a fleeting condition. The nature of Nirvana in Buddhism is that it's not fleeting, so it's kind of special in that way.

[Ryan T.]

I asked this question to a cow once. It said "MU"

 

Good enough for me.

 

 

There will never be a finer answer to any question. Ever.

[xabir2005]

So does anyone one know if lions or other animals can achieve liberation in there lifetime in a buddhist sence?

 

If they cant is there anyway one could help them achieve it in there lifetime?

No they can't. Animals cannot attain liberation because they are obstructed by their ignorance. They can't understand the teachings, they can't practice it.

[Gerard]

This is so funny. Some of these threads are like questionnaires. Lions no bears yes LOL!!!!! How about penguins?

 

OK, I will be serious.

 

Animals do not have the "mental" (as Yi-intent) ability to work directly on chi and transmute it to shen, which eventually leads to breaking through the cycle of rebirth as the spirit will be able to survive on its own without a receptacle.

[atena]

How about monkeys...

They might be able to learn some chi kung forms by mimicking, and maybe even teach that stuff between each others --> planet of the apes!

Edited September 27, 2009 by atena

[Pero]

Could one reincarnatre as a lion or other animal and help them? like tell them what to do so they became a human being and were able to become liberated?

 

Yes, but not ordinary schmucks like us. You'd have to be a Buddha or at least high on the bhumis I guess. I think in sutra there is some stories how Buddha manifested as some animals and gave them teaching that way.

[mewtwo]

But did not the buddha say that animals have buddha nature so they could technically achieve liberation?

 

 

Like the koan does a dog have buddha nature no a dog is buddha nature.

[Pero]

But did not the buddha say that animals have buddha nature so they could technicaly acheve liberation?

 

They have Buddha nature, but just having it isn't enough. There also has to be access to teachings, then actually applying those teachings. For ordinary humans there is no way to communicate the teachings to animals. No teachings, no practice, no enlightenment.

[mewtwo]

Thank you all for your answers they have helped some. I kind of feel like i am beeting a dead horse but i have one more final question on this topic.

 

Is there anything we can do to help the animals acheve liberation?

 

Thank you all for your answers they have helped some. I kind of feel like i am beeting a dead horse but i have one more final question on this topic.

 

Is there anything we can do to help the animals acheve liberation?

[Lucky7Strikes]

Thank you all for your answers they have helped some. I kind of feel like i am beeting a dead horse but i have one more final question on this topic.

 

Is there anything we can do to help the animals acheve liberation?

 

Thank you all for your answers they have helped some. I kind of feel like i am beeting a dead horse but i have one more final question on this topic.

 

Is there anything we can do to help the animals acheve liberation?

 

MU!

 

There is a story of how Ramana Maharshi helped his cow attain liberation. .

[Marblehead]

Is there anything we can do to help the animals acheve liberation?

 

In Taoist Philosophy all life forms experience the same cycle of birth - life - death. None are ever enslaved so there is no need for liberation.

 

Happy Trails!

[Aetherous]

No joke...last night I had a dream that I became a lion. I can't remember the details, though.

[Marblehead]

No joke...last night I had a dream that I became a lion. I can't remember the details, though.

 

Recalling a quote from a few days ago although I do not remember who the author is:

 

(Paraphrased) The only way the lion will ever lay down with the lamb is if the lamb is inside.

 

Happy Trails!