Romance of the Three Kingdoms

[Yoda]

So this is about the fall of the Han dynasty including the story of the ultimate MA Master, Lord Gwan and his oath brothers all sworn to die on the same day.

 

It's all cross, double cross, tricky stuff and don't bother to show up to a fight with fewer than 100,000 soldiers!

 

It's funny the size of the armies in China for a mere skirmish dwarf those of a full on conquest in the west at this time.

 

I don't know what the relative populations are but China has always been big.

 

The book is essentially a military history and you get to know the main characters but it's hard to keep track of some of the other guys sometimes.

 

Yoda

[Mal]

When I read the title I though you might have been refering to the Romance of the three kingdoms

 

[Marblehead]

So this is about the fall of the Han dynasty including the story of the ultimate MA Master, Lord Gwan and his oath brothers all sworn to die on the same day.

 

It's all cross, double cross, tricky stuff and don't bother to show up to a fight with fewer than 100,000 soldiers!

 

It's funny the size of the armies in China for a mere skirmish dwarf those of a full on conquest in the west at this time.

 

I don't know what the relative populations are but China has always been big.

 

The book is essentially a military history and you get to know the main characters but it's hard to keep track of some of the other guys sometimes.

 

Yoda

 

Yeah, reminded me of the saying: Never take just a knife to a gun fight.

 

 

I think one sure thing can be said about the Chinese people: They sure knew and still know how to make babies.

 

Happy Trails!

[Yoda]

They sure knew and still know how to make babies.

 

At first glance, it appears as if China and the USA have the same amount of easy-to-use farmland, same rainfall, same latitude... so why the difference in population?

 

I'm thinking it's due to the idea that in China children are the more highly valued than in the USA from both a practical as well as metaphysical perspective.

 

Just a guess, though.

 

~~~

 

Mal, made the correction, thanks.

 

Just about done with book one of four... Lord Guan is cleaving dudes in half on his way north to be reunited with his brother. Learning about valor and honor... After each person dies a poet assigns a score to the person's life with the circumstances of their last stand figuring in very highly into the equation.

 

Cao Cao is a bit of a bad boy lord... he put out a hit on the emperor's pregnant concubine for instance but also makes an attempt to be "by the code"... he takes care of family members of honorable people he has killed but will also nut up and kill off whole families if he feels threatened by them... needs zoloft.

 

Lord Guan and his oath brothers would certainly be more honorable but it's hard to be 100% honorable during a civil war with friends on all sides and broken oathes all over the place.

 

Not much Taoism, but still it is interesting to see the warrior culture in action.

 

In the back of the book are Chairman Mao's margin notes. He kept a copy of this book with him as inspiration on the long march.

 

Yoda

[Mal]

Cool, I have a html version that I read now and then if the net is down and I'm super board at work. It's been a while so I don't remember much except that it's even longer than J2W

[Lucky7Strikes]

Zhuge Liang is really the one who makes the Romance of the Three Kingdoms more than a tale of bunch of people with big swords. I believe he was a Taoist. There is a story of him doing weather magic at the famous battle on Red Cliff.

[Yoda]

Zhuge Liang is really the one who makes the Romance of the Three Kingdoms more than a tale of bunch of people with big swords. I believe he was a Taoist. There is a story of him doing weather magic at the famous battle on Red Cliff.

 

thanks... I look forward to that part!

 

I just finished reading about a ruler who kills a Taoist teacher saying the guy was evil but it sounds like maybe the ruler's mom was right that the guy was good. Anyways, the taoist dies and haunts the ruler so a few weeks later he's dead too and they can sort it all out downstairs! Teacher consensus is never going to happen!

 

There's only a bit of discussion of the Celestial Master popular uprising in the 3 Kingdoms... barely alluded to. Cao Cao puts it down. I would love to hear more about the back story on that one if anyone knows it.

 

Poor Xuande... bless his heart... he's the nicest guy but he has a really hard time winning battles... Cao Cao has him on the run! Cao Cao is quite the warlord!

 

Yoda

[Trunk]

Fun to watch you go-go-go!

[gendao]

At first glance, it appears as if China and the USA have the same amount of easy-to-use farmland, same rainfall, same latitude... so why the difference in population?

 

I'm thinking it's due to the idea that in China children are the more highly valued than in the USA from both a practical as well as metaphysical perspective.

Actually, it has more to do with the fact that the Chinese have been reproducing there uninterrupted for 6000 years, while Americans have only been reproducing here for only a few hundred (after killing off the 50 million natives).

 

The Chinese actually now have the lowest birthrate in the world, with their 1-child policy.

Edited October 5, 2009 by vortex

[rain]

Actually, it has more to do with the fact that the Chinese have been reproducing there uninterrupted for 6000 years, while Americans have only been reproducing here for only a few hundred (after killing off the 50 million natives).

 

The Chinese actually now have the lowest birthrate in the world, with their 1-child policy.

 

with their god make it please be a boy politics? or is that yesterdays politics?

Edited October 5, 2009 by rain

[gendao]

with their god make it please be a boy politics? or is that yesterdays politics?

That's an old agrarian culture tradition where kids were seen as your personal labor force and boys simply made better farmhands. In addition, boys were also saddled with the responsibility to provide and care for his extended family and parents in their old age - as defacto 401K retirement plans. Hence, boys were favored because they were far more useful as familial "pack burros" who could carry a lot of "weight" (Confucian obligations to his family).

 

It's similar to how I'm sure a big, strong male slave was worth far more on the auction blocks than a female one.

 

This is changing now though, and girls are actually becoming favored in the more modernized cities, like Shanghai - because they are seen as potentially having more future career potential. It's all about betting on the winning racehorse...

Edited October 5, 2009 by vortex

[Yoda]

So I'll report on Mao's margin notes... Cao Cao's son saw a flash of red light in the story and Mao said that that was a sign that one day Cao Cao's son would be the emperor and the woman in the room would be the empress.

 

I wonder if Mao saw any flashes of red light, etc?

[Yoda]

So Xuande is the most noble leader in the book and has the best warriors but he just can't win many key battles. That might be turning around for him after meeting the Taoist, Still Water, who put him onto an amazing strategist but Cao Cao then lured the strategist's mum to CC's HQ as a well treated hostage... we'll see how it goes!

[Yoda]

So Liu Bie's/Xuande's Taoist advisor, although very young, has proven himself a brilliant strategist in his first battle and now the stinting brothers acknowledge his abilities. But Cao Cao is closing in with his main army and Liu Bie's wife just sacrificed herself to save her son as Liu Bie's general would not have been able to save both of them. Presently, the general has the son and is hacking his way through Cao Cao's army with Cao Cao's very own sword that goes through armor like butter...

 

The teacher, Master Sleeping Dragon, has a very good feel for the fate of each individual and is doing a good job weaving the threads together to help China find peace and has found a worthy student in Xuande.

 

The vibe presented in this book is that if Xuande had not earnestly and repeatedly requested the services of Master Sleeping Dragon, the Taoist master would not have lended a hand to stabilize China.

[Yoda]

Now that a taoist master has entered the story, it has gone from interesting to way cool!!!! Very inspiring to see the master in action in the middle of a huge civil war. Cao Cao has 1 to 1.5 million soldiers and the south has a fraction of that number plus one taoist... Cao Cao should quit while he's still ahead!

 

The funny thing is that Master Sleeping Dragon is fighting for the South but even they want him dead as they are terrified of his abilities.

 

The South has tried to kill him twice and it's not clear whether they have given up on the project or figure that they need to keep him alive while Cao Cao looms and then attempt to deal with him later.

 

Yoda

[gendao]

[Yoda]

Vortex,

 

That seems to be a theme!

 

I don't know how the story of the 3 Kingdoms goes, but this taoist master seems to be 10 steps ahead of the game and is fully aware that everyone is freaked out about his abilities... hopefully he'll sort things out so the good guys can come out on top! He's the one who borrowed 100,000 arrows from the enemy and seems not to even own a sword.

 

Your pal,

Yoda

[Yoda]

So the battle goes well... Liu Bie and the Sun Quan both won while Master Sleeping Dragon cooly slips away from frienemy Sun Quan's third attempt on his life.... they were to kill him the moment he procured the southern wind necessary for victory...

 

Master Sleeping Dragon orders Lord Guan to kill Cao Cao knowing full well that he will let Cao Cao go and offer his head in return. He said he was able to see in the stars that Cao Cao's time had not yet come and wanted Lord Guan to have an opportunity to do Cao Cao a favor. Lord Guan's life is spared, of course.

 

Later the South sets a trap for Liu Bie and falsely offers the Sun Quan's sister as a bride fro Liu Bie in order to capture him. Master Sleeping Dragon suggests that Liu Bie accepts the false offer as if it were true and it turns out that Sun Quan's Mom likes Liu Bie and accepts him as a son-in-law and tells her son to butt out with his evil schemes... And then Master Sleeping Dragon cleverly engineers Liu Bie and his wife's escape.

[Yoda]

I happened to be on wiki and stumbled ahead of the story a bit... sort of a mixed bag to do that.

 

But I did find out that, in real life, Master Sleeping Dragon invented the semi-automatic crossbow, landmines, and steamed buns.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhuge_Liang

[Yoda]

the book has its very own forum! http://the-scholars.com/

[Yoda]

After about 1,400 pages lots of characters I know and love are dying. Lord Guan... didn't see that coming. But even death doesn't stop him! It looks like he took Cao Cao out and possessed Sun Quan's minister to kill the minister and give Sun Quan a good lecturing to!

 

Unrealistically, Lord Guan goes to a Buddhist monk for post-death advice but we can let that slide.

 

The book's bad boy, Cao Cao, makes a quip towards Lord Guan's head and the head grimaces at him and Cao Cao freaks out, then gets haunted by past victims, gets sick, and dies...

 

King Liu Bie's health isn't doing too well either.

 

King Sun Quan is definitely spooked and his brother was killed by a Taoist related haunting so it's a possibility that he might not live too much longer either.

 

Yoda

[Yoda]

So updates on the story, The Jade Emperor has been impressed with the lives of Lord Guan and Zhang Fei and has granted them godhood. The book doesn't mention whether Liu Bie has been granted godhood or not.

 

Liu Bie dies essentially due to heartbreak and frustration caused in part by not listening to Zhuge Liang's advice and suffering a huge loss to Lu Xun. Sun Quan's health seems to be fine.

 

Also, the trap for the Southland General Lu Xun made by Master Sleeping Dragon is described. In the process, the book discusses Lu Xun's ability to see ambushes due to the malevolent clouds above the hidden troops. In this case, the clouds were produced by Master Sleeping Dragon / Zhuge Liang's trap which Lu Xun is puzzled by and goes to check out... The trap is seemingly foiled by Master Sleeping Dragon's father in law's compassion for Lu Xun.

[Yoda]

So Master Sleeping Dragon tried to plead with Heaven to extend his lifespan but was interrupted and a lantern representing a Big Dipper star was knocked over by a commander rushing into the tent, so passed away. Gradually luck has been slipping away from the Western Kingdom and the remnant of the Han Dynasty...

 

Two cool supernatural events are related to this:

 

A northern kingdom commander who was fighting against Master Sleeping Dragon's Western Kingdom saw some evil clouds while invading the Western Kingdom and assumed it to be an ambush. Indeed, the scouting party sent to check it out suffered a huge ambush but surprisingly didn't lose any troops... they later figured out that this was the area that Master Sleeping Dragon's Temple was established and those were ghost troops.

 

So the enemy commander makes offerings to Master Sleeping Dragon which calms down the clouds. Later, the Master visits the commander in a dream and thanks him for the offerings and tells him that the Western Kingdom and the Han Dynasty is doomed, that the commander's cause would prevail but admonished him to be very merciful towards the civilians which he agreed to do.

 

The other event was that the Western Kingdom emperor calls in a channeler to give him strategic advice. The "goddess" in question gyrates the channeler around and puts on quite a show but the advice was completely wrong and sealed the dynasty's fate.

 

This story fits in nicely with my belief that channelled entities are not to be trusted.

[Yoda]

Have finished! Sorry to see the pitiful collapse of the Western Kingdom. It was nice to see the victorious northern kingdom be pretty upset about the pitiful state of the Western and Southern Kingdoms in the course of just one generation, but spared the ruling family from execution for reasons of political expediency.

 

The afterward was interesting to read... the romance of the 3 K makes the western kingdom the good guys but the historians immediately after the north kingdom's victory makes the north the good guys (an hence maintain their good health! )

 

The northern first king, Cao Cao, seemed actually to be a decent chap but did a few really outrageous things per the romance version. If those didn't happen then it really would be hard to say who the good guys really were.

 

An interesting thing is the son of the evil Western King was a noble chap and seeing that his father simply surrendered without a fight, he killed his wife and two kids and killed himself rather than face the reality of the surrender.

 

This is spoken of as a very virtuous action in the book... sort of to leave no hostages.

 

A little bit depressing to see the Han and the aspirations of Master Sleeping Dragon, Lord Guan, etc come to very little that stands the test of time... gets thrown away to over drinking, channelers, and bad advisors.

 

Interesting to read Mao's commentary: he believed in political karma... if a ruling class grossly misbehaves it'll have to pay later but he doesn't believe in personal afterlife type karma.

 

Off to Outlaws in the Marsh!

 

Tao Toe,

Yoda

[Yoda]

Cao Cao's tomb discovered?

 

http://www.newsdaily.com/stories/tre5bq0bx-us-china-tomb/