Ego Inflation - aka Secret Narcissism

[JustARandomPanda]

I have been experiencing some admittedly strange phenomena recently (as detailed in my Personal Practice Log) that now I am beginning to question.

 

The issue specifically has to do with Ego Inflation - aka Secret Narcissism.

 

I have been reading the book Halfway Up the Mountain: The Errors of Premature Claims to Enlightenment (I am estatic my library has this book! Definitely recommend it!). There is an entire chapter dedicated to just this topic alone.

 

If I understand the author and the tons of people she's interviewed on the subject - Ego Inflation can not be avoided.

 

Quote from the book:

 

Ego Inflation is a mechanical process, not a mystical one. It sneaks up on the individual in often unexpected and unforeseen ways because ego is slippery, not because it is a cosmic force.

 

 

Here's another example from the book:

 

 

Eagerness

 

The simplest explanation, though perhaps overly simplified, as to how and why egoic inflation occurs is that individuals who experience expanded states are often naive and eager to share their experiences and knowledge with others. The neophyte who has had little involvement in spiritual work and who suddenly comes upon a very strong experience often imagines that nobody else, or very few, have had such experiences, and he desires to broadcast it for all the world so that they, too, can partake of this glory. Christina Grof observes:

 

"It is very common that people will experiment with some spiritual technique and get a taste of, "Hey, I'm more than I thought I was," and not do any work around it but instead go out and try it themselves, becoming some kind of messiah."

 

An unseen world has suddenly been revealed, and the person is excited to share this "land of milk and honey" with all those whom they love and who are suffering. "Attempting to communicate the wonder of such experience to others is natural and understandable," suggest Kramer and Alstad. "The problem is that others who have not had similar experiences are prone to give such a person deference and special treatment. It is very difficult to not enjoy this, and thus subtly to reinforce whatever images others have of one's specialness - particularly since it makes people more apt to listen."

 

Whereas the initial impulse to bask in one's experience and share it with others is quite innocent, the danger comes when other people who have not had such experiences naively overestimate their importance. At this point, the ego of the person who was innocently sharing his or her experiences notices the attention it is getting, and in its rapidly expanding state seduces the individual into a feeling of even greater specialness and self-importance, encouraging a savior mentality."

 

And a few pages later:

Yet another favored ploy of ego is to not only identify with experiences but to then use them for its own means. Dr. Jacob Needleman, of the Department of Philosophy at San Francisco State University, clearly articulates this point.

 

"In every human being, there is this impulse to aggrandize through the ego, or in Ken Wilber's terms, to take all spiritual or transformational communications and turn them into adaptive or selfish or egoistic implements. This is a fact of human nature. This is why man is what he is. Every great spiritual teacher understands this about human nature and has to take it into account. Anyone who doesn't understand that is underestimating the human problem."

 

In other words, it is not only an innocent an uneducated misidentification with mystical experiences on the part of ego that creates inflation, but an intentional, purposeful process. When the individual perceives that people are paying more attention to them because they are a little bit psychic, or are fascinated with them because of their stories or journeys to other realms and their contact with alien beings, they are going to capitalize on it.

 

Read - Ego has slipped in again through a side door.

 

I am at a loss as to how one deals with this state. Apparently it is a phase we all go through - continuously. I don't know why this surprised me but it did. From what I understand even the Buddha had to continuously deal with the onslaught of Ego Inflation until he finally awakened.

 

It's so exhausting. I do not want people being somehow in awe of me or my experiences. Actually I'd rather they had their own equally cool ones to share.

 

How did Lao Tzu guard against this? Or the Buddha?

 

How can you tell when your experiences are real v. being another manifestation of Ego trying to trap and stall you into feeling special? How does one guard against this?

[Marblehead]

Hi Serene,

 

Excellent subject and very nice post.

 

To the best of my knowledge Lao Tzu never spoke directly to the question of ego. (Chuang Tzu did though.)

 

Ego is based, IMO, in the instinct of survival. Therefore we should not even try to destroy ego. However, as in the article, it is difficult to prevent the ego from inflating when externals (other people) are pumping it up.

 

I think that it is true that restraining the ego is a constant and continuous requirement. Any time we do something beyond the ordinary (based on our own previous accomplishments) our ego will get that little bit of inflation and then when others praise us for it ego inflates even more.

 

I'll do a serious search of Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu to see if I can present anything for this discussion.

 

Happy Trails!

 

ps Please note that my first sentence was an ego pumper so be aware. Hehehe.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Well, the fact that you're aware of it is a good step! It means it hasn't "slipped" past you.

 

Now I guess I could share my techniques of overcoming the ego, but that just might be me trying to show off all the experiences I've had and trying to become some kind of messiah and everyone will say, "oh, that zhang is so advanced and has such good advice!"

 

In all seriousness though, for me it boils down to self awareness and examination and contemplation. If you are posting in a thread you have some experience in, for example, why are you posting? Is it to help? To share? To prove to others you know what you are doing? If you don't post, what will the effects be? Get into the habit of doing this as often as you can.

 

Again, not to brag (but really I kinda am, aren't I? ), but I realize that a lot of the posts I'm about to make don't seem incredibly necessary when I stop and think about them, so I wind up never posting in the first place.

 

And, once again, the fact that you're aware of this means you're on the right track to begin with

Edited September 30, 2009 by Sloppy Zhang

[nac]

I'm a Buddhist myself, but I believe Taoist sages gave instructions to modify the ego by understanding the ways of the Tao and by conforming to natural processes. When we exert our will against the world, we disrupt it's harmony. Placing the ego in harmony with the natural universe eliminates the problem. In other words, now that you're informed about the danger and it's workings, maybe you also possess the means to avoid it if you remain aware of it?

Edited September 30, 2009 by nac

[JustARandomPanda]

Hi Serene,

 

Excellent subject and very nice post.

 

To the best of my knowledge Lao Tzu never spoke directly to the question of ego. (Chuang Tzu did though.)

....

 

I'll do a serious search of Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu to see if I can present anything for this discussion.

This reminded me of a tale I found in the following book about Lieh Tzu taken from Lieh Tzu: A Taoist Guide to Practical Living translated by Eva Wong. It seems to be making the same point as the book I'm currently reading:

 

Lieh-Tzu's Fear

 

Lieh-Tzu was on his way to the kingdom of Ch'i when he decided to turn back. On the road he met one of his former teachers, Po-hun, who asked him, "You were going to Chi'i; why did you turn back?"

 

Lieh-Tzu said, "Because I'm afraid."

"What's there to be afraid of?"

"I ate at ten inns and five of them served me before they served anyone else."

"What's the problem?"

 

Lieh-Tzu said, "it occurred to me that my ego was getting the better of me and i was commanding some sort of respect or making people think I am an important man. This made the innkeepers give me preferential treatment. If this goes on, I'll be in trouble."

 

Lieh-Tzu continued, "Innkeepers do not make much money and certainly do not have much say in politics. If people with so little to gain make a big deal out of me, then I would really be in trouble when the generals and the chiefs of state come after me for advice. That's why I'm afraid."

 

Po-hun said, "Good observations! But let me tell you one thing. Even if you stay and do not go to Ch'i, other people will not let you off the hook easily."

 

Lieh-Tzu never went to Ch'i. Instead he decided to settle down in a quiet place. Not long afterward, Po-hun came by to visit him. Seeing the shoes of many visitors at the entrance to Lieh-Tzu's house, Po-hun stood outside, leaned on his staff, and left without a word.

 

When Lieh-Tzu was told that his former teacher was seen outside his door, he ran out barefooted and caught up with Po-hun, saying, "Master, since you have come, why don't you come in and instruct me?"

 

Po-hun said, "I have nothing to say. I told you before that people will not let you go easily. Now it has happened. People come to you not because you are capable of allowing them to respect you, but because you can't prevent them from doing so. You displayed your virtue and accomplishments and attracted people to come to learn from you, and neither you nor these people benefit from this. They flatter you, and you say what they like to hear. You patronize each other and in the end no one gets enlightened."

[Eternal_Student]

wow.

you should be an acupuncturist, because you hit the point dead on.

 

 

personally, I try to train my ego like a dog.

 

i keep it around because it keeps me warm when i'm alone.

i feed it lightly so it doesn't cost me more money in vet bills.

when it barks loudly, i command it to sit.

its fun to play in the park, and good for starting conversations with strangers.

i take it for long walks so that when its tired, its less likely to want attention.

but in the end, i ignore it. because its just a dog...

 

[Easy]

S-Blue

 

Far from serene it sounds.

 

You asked: How can you tell when your experiences are real v. being another manifestation of Ego trying to trap and stall you into feeling special? How does one guard against this?

My humble guess is that all experiences are real. They just have to be put into the perspective that your experiences are really a dime a dozen and that a third of everyone you ever knew and their cousin's dog has been where you just were, maybe a couple of times, maybe four or five. I once spent six weeks in ecstasy over the realization of the bedrock insignificance of my being and the screaming insanity of the vanity I was anything more than nothing. For an egoist that's a trip. But that was nothing. Enlightenment? What would it matter? I've been putting my pants on one leg at a time every since. I still need to drink water and I still need a warm place to sleep. I am not omniscient or anywhere close and I have never encountered anyone who was. What do you seek? What does it matter?

 

I might suggest that instead of maligning your ego you give it some thanks for keeping you from being autistic and knowing how to balance your check book and it is that which really knows that you are just one of an infinite many and none of us counts for nada.

[doc benway]

I have been experiencing some admittedly strange phenomena recently (as detailed in my Personal Practice Log) that now I am beginning to question.

 

The issue specifically has to do with Ego Inflation - aka Secret Narcissism.

 

I have been reading the book Halfway Up the Mountain: The Errors of Premature Claims to Enlightenment (I am estatic my library has this book! Definitely recommend it!). There is an entire chapter dedicated to just this topic alone.

 

If I understand the author and the tons of people she's interviewed on the subject - Ego Inflation can not be avoided.

 

Quote from the book:

Here's another example from the book:

And a few pages later:

Read - Ego has slipped in again through a side door.

 

I am at a loss as to how one deals with this state. Apparently it is a phase we all go through - continuously. I don't know why this surprised me but it did. From what I understand even the Buddha had to continuously deal with the onslaught of Ego Inflation until he finally awakened.

 

It's so exhausting. I do not want people being somehow in awe of me or my experiences. Actually I'd rather they had their own equally cool ones to share.

 

How did Lao Tzu guard against this? Or the Buddha?

 

How can you tell when your experiences are real v. being another manifestation of Ego trying to trap and stall you into feeling special? How does one guard against this?

Really nice post and provocative questions -

 

I think that as long as there is something being sought, this defines the seeker.

The seeker can be none other than the Ego (with its desires and ideas and conditioning and so forth).

Is there a state in which that can be let go?

All the desires, expectations, images, and conditioning...

What would that be like?

 

My question is, do we have the enormous amount of energy and passion required to find out?

[Deepbluesea]

I have been experiencing some admittedly strange phenomena recently (as detailed in my Personal Practice Log) that now I am beginning to question.

 

The issue specifically has to do with Ego Inflation - aka Secret Narcissism.

 

I have been reading the book Halfway Up the Mountain: The Errors of Premature Claims to Enlightenment (I am estatic my library has this book! Definitely recommend it!). There is an entire chapter dedicated to just this topic alone.

 

If I understand the author and the tons of people she's interviewed on the subject - Ego Inflation can not be avoided.

 

Quote from the book:

Here's another example from the book:

And a few pages later:

Read - Ego has slipped in again through a side door.

 

I am at a loss as to how one deals with this state. Apparently it is a phase we all go through - continuously. I don't know why this surprised me but it did. From what I understand even the Buddha had to continuously deal with the onslaught of Ego Inflation until he finally awakened.

 

It's so exhausting. I do not want people being somehow in awe of me or my experiences. Actually I'd rather they had their own equally cool ones to share.

 

How did Lao Tzu guard against this? Or the Buddha?

 

How can you tell when your experiences are real v. being another manifestation of Ego trying to trap and stall you into feeling special? How does one guard against this?

 

Dayammn!

 

Why you gotta hit me in the head with a brick like that!

 

Stigward's 49 day plan made me read out loud the first chapter twice a day. Its a real ego crusher. I'm always trying to work an agenda; push things my way; pull things over to me. Careful study of chapter 1 may help you, but that's just my ego speaking. I'll be ready for careful consideration of chapter 2 in my next lifetime.

 

Great question, lots of good insight ... like you say, my ego smirks and slips through the side door and says to me, "There are bigger questions to ask, more important problems to solve, you've got me handled, go on. Quick! Look over there, take care of that, I'm good, you put me in my place." The ego is a magician.

 

My good coaches, my good teachers, my good sensei never gave me a word of approval. I had never thought of that before. It was always, "That's not good enough, you can do better." But the only thing that made me better was my ego striving to please.

 

Quit asking the tough questions will ya?

 

I think that Santiago has said that if you don't check your ego at the door during some practices you'll get your head handed to you (not his words).

[Gerard]

Put all your attention 100% all the time into the following:

 

Arising and passing of all mental and physical phenomena. When you acknowledge of their impermanence and realise that clinging onto them is futile then you'll become an arahant. It takes time and a lot of effort and mental training but it is possible in one lifetime. Good luck in your journey.

[JustARandomPanda]

I just found this - The Transpersonal State

 

 

Apparently one can mathematize anything - even Ego Inflation and mystic experiences.

 

[Vajrahridaya]

 

How can you tell when your experiences are real v. being another manifestation of Ego trying to trap and stall you into feeling special? How does one guard against this?

 

 

It's all ego... Just seeing how both consciousness and it's objects are dependent within an endless and infinite spectrum leads to being objective about it and having a wider awareness of seeing influence, both being influenced by and influencing.

 

So is the ever widening spectrum of the Bodhisattva path until complete liberation and infinite reference which is truly objective within subjective activity empowered by the virtue of and accumulation of compassion within the spectrum of infinite regress.

 

I just found this - The Transpersonal State

Apparently one can mathematize anything - even Ego Inflation and mystic experiences.

 

 

This is interesting and yes, math seems to express non-experiential values of infinite finites giving rational within infinite regress of expression of the non-quantifiable experience of the emptiness of all mutually dependent things within infinite quantifiable regress.

[三江源]

Put all your attention 100% all the time into the following:

 

Arising and passing of all mental and physical phenomena. When you acknowledge of their impermanence and realise that clinging onto them is futile then you'll become an arahant. It takes time and a lot of effort and mental training but it is possible in one lifetime. Good luck in your journey.

 

 

 

 

this is just about the answer, SB.

 

just dont attach to anything about your personality, your practise, others praise.. take it all with a huge pinch of salt, shrug it off, and you'll be fine.

 

it's the people who are heavily invested in their own stories and other people's impressions of them that get bogged down.

[Marblehead]

This reminded me of a tale I found in the following book about Lieh Tzu taken from Lieh Tzu: A Taoist Guide to Practical Living translated by Eva Wong. It seems to be making the same point as the book I'm currently reading:

 

Yes! That story is a perfect example. And this reminded me:

 

Tao Te Ching, Chapter 22 (Henricks' translation):

 

7. Therefore the Sage holds on to the One and in this way becomes the shepherd of the world.

8. He does not show himself off; therefore he becomes prominent.

9. He does not put himself on display; therefore he brightly shines.

10. He does not brag about himself; therefore he receives credit.

11. He does not praise his own deeds; therefore he can long endure.

12. It is only because he does not compete that, therefore, no one is able to compete with him.

 

This is talking directly to the subject of ego.

 

Happy Trails!

 

 

wow.

you should be an acupuncturist, because you hit the point dead on.

personally, I try to train my ego like a dog.

 

i keep it around because it keeps me warm when i'm alone.

i feed it lightly so it doesn't cost me more money in vet bills.

when it barks loudly, i command it to sit.

its fun to play in the park, and good for starting conversations with strangers.

i take it for long walks so that when its tired, its less likely to want attention.

but in the end, i ignore it. because its just a dog...

 

 

I like that! Thanks for sharing.

 

Happy Trails!

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

It's all ego... Just seeing how both consciousness and it's objects are dependent within an endless and infinite spectrum leads to being objective about it and having a wider awareness of seeing influence, both being influenced by and influencing.

 

So is the ever widening spectrum of the Bodhisattva path until complete liberation and infinite reference which is truly objective within subjective activity empowered by the virtue of and accumulation of compassion within the spectrum of infinite regress.

 

 

Um...can someone explain to me what this means?

[nac]

Um...can someone explain to me what this means?

All perception is ego, only with some states or configurations of it causing more suffering and others causing less?

[CarsonZi]

Humility is the new ego

 

Or at least ego in disguise......

 

Love,

Carson

[JustARandomPanda]

Um...can someone explain to me what this means?

 

 

It's all ego... Just seeing how both consciousness and it's objects are dependent within an endless and infinite spectrum leads to being objective about it and having a wider awareness of seeing influence, both being influenced by and influencing.

 

Translation from VH-Speak:

 

The Ego begins to see how everything (both other objects (i.e. seeing objectively) and itself (i.e. seeing subjectively) ) - A) infinite regress and B ) exist because and only because everything else causes it to exist (read: there is no final, innate, self-subsisting 'core' being).

 

So is the ever widening spectrum of the Bodhisattva path until complete liberation and infinite reference which is truly objective within subjective activity empowered by the virtue of and accumulation of compassion within the spectrum of infinite regress.

 

Translation from VH-Speak:

 

If you choose the path of the Bodhisattva you will become ever more aware of Point A and Point B. Once you gain complete liberation (read: Buddhahood) you will act virtuously and compassionately naturally (read 'Wu Wei' ) because you've seen with true awareness Point A and Point B.

[Vajrahridaya]

Um...can someone explain to me what this means?

 

It means that the perceiver or cognizable being of dependent origination is dependently originated and the experience of this is without reference, or abiding thing. So, when one can apply this to infinite infinites. Then you have endless non-grasping while the endless display flows.

 

So, even as ego arises, one is not clinging, but I suppose ego means "to cling"?

 

Basically, what I was saying, in a horribly nuanced way which maybe I could only understand so maybe a pointless explanation? Is that, don't cling to your clinging or your ideas of ego because it's empty anyway. The practice of open witnessing is a good practice if you don't set it up as an ultimate subject of all like the Vedantins do.

Edited October 1, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

It means that the perceiver or cognizable being of dependent origination is dependently originated and the experience of this is without reference, or abiding thing. So, when one can apply this to infinite infinites. Then you have endless non-grasping while the endless display flows.

 

So, even as ego arises, one is not clinging, but I suppose ego means "to cling"?

 

Basically, what I was saying, in a horribly nuanced way which maybe I could only understand so maybe a pointless explanation? Is that, don't cling to your clinging or your ideas of ego because it's empty anyway. The practice of open witnessing is a good practice if you don't set it up as an ultimate subject of all like the Vedantins do.

 

Wow. Just...wow.

[Vajrahridaya]

Translation from VH-Speak:

 

The Ego begins to see how everything (both other objects (i.e. seeing objectively) and itself (i.e. seeing subjectively) ) - A) infinite regress and B ) exist because and only because everything else causes it to exist (read: there is no final, innate, self-subsisting 'core' being).

 

Translation from VH-Speak:

 

If you choose the path of the Bodhisattva you will become ever more aware of Point A and Point B. Once you gain complete liberation (read: Buddhahood) you will act virtuously and compassionately naturally (read 'Wu Wei' ) because you've seen with true awareness Point A and Point B.

 

By Jehove or is it (Jove?) I think she got it!! (English expression)

 

HA! That's awesome.

[JustARandomPanda]

Wow. Just...wow.

 

Songs...it's probably easier to understand if you read one of the books by the Dalai Lama. He explains these exact same things in a way that is so much easier to understand. Even my little grasshopper brain can understand Dependent Arising (the Dalai Lama's term for Dependent Origination) and the Clear Light of Consciousness, etc from the way he explains it.

 

I'm reading the Dalai Lama's latest book (2009 copyright) called Becoming Enlightened (found it offered brand new by an Amazon reseller for only 84 cents!!). It explains all of this stuff so very simply and clearly. Because of his books I'm now convinced Buddhism is A) NOT a nihilistic religion that appeals only to people with Depressive Disorders or Pessimistic, Down-on-Life attitudes and B ) has to be one of the most amazingly loving and compassionate religions and philosophies on the planet.

 

It and Taoism are wonderful compliments!

[Vajrahridaya]

 

It and Taoism are wonderful compliments!

 

I think the applied Taoism is complimentary, though I'm not fully convinced that philosophical Taoism is. Though, some explanation of understanding are more influenced by Buddhism than others. Chan and Shaolin types seem to be mixtures of both.

Edited October 1, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[Marblehead]

I think the applied Taoism is complimentary, though I'm not fully convinced that philosophical Taoism is. Though, some explanation of understanding are more influenced by Buddhism than others. Chan and Shaolin types seem to be mixtures of both.

 

But then sometimes you just think too much. Hehehe.

 

Happy Trails!

[Vajrahridaya]

But then sometimes you just think too much. Hehehe.

 

Happy Trails!

.... eh.... it's not thought that binds, it's one's inward interpretation of the occurrence that binds or liberates as thought occurs.