Cash-strapped sell their kidneys to pay off debts

[Encephalon]

Edited October 1, 2009 by Blasto

[Marblehead]

I personally see no problem with this as long as the decision to put an organ up for sale is done with total free will. I can understand the concerns of some regarding it though.

 

Happy trails!

[NeiChuan]

While im alive I dont think I will pretty much ever.. Although being an organ donor say if you past away or something then thats nice aswell.

[Marblehead]

While im alive I dont think I will pretty much ever.. Although being an organ donor say if you past away or something then thats nice aswell.

 

On my last Driver's License renewal I stated that I wanted to be an organ donor. Of course, I hope to live so long that all my organs will be all used up and no one will want them.

 

Happy Trails!

[Eternal_Student]

In TCM, your kidney is responsible for your pre heaven jing. One kidney is responsible for half of the yin, and half of the yang that you inherit from your parents. In the old days, the left kidney was the yin kidney, while the right kidney was the yang. We now know, that the adrenals are the yang aspect while the filtration of the actual kidney is the yin aspect.

 

Either way, you are donating half of your bodies main reserve batteries. That's HALF of your genetics.

 

 

No thanks. My grandparents screwed up my jing anyway by smoking and drinking for 50 years. I have to be a miser with the small portion I got from them anyway. Thanks grandma!!!

[Encephalon]

I should rephrase the question. I wasn't really asking about the ethical considerations of organ doning or selling, but more along the lines of what Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) would say, given the prominence of the kidneys in tcm. Any high-paid tcm-types care to chime in?

 

Oh, Et. Student - you beat me to it. Thanks.

Edited October 1, 2009 by Blasto

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

 

Either way, you are donating half of your bodies main reserve batteries. That's HALF of your genetics.

No thanks. My grandparents screwed up my jing anyway by smoking and drinking for 50 years. I have to be a miser with the small portion I got from them anyway. Thanks grandma!!!

 

 

Hmmm, Eternal Student. It seems to me that this is a belief you can indulge or not. Do you know for sure that your jing is diminished because of your grandparents, were you told this by a practitioner, or is a tenet of TCM?

[Ryan T.]

I personally see no problem with this as long as the decision to put an organ up for sale is done with total free will. I can understand the concerns of some regarding it though.

 

Happy trails!

 

A person couldn't really consider it free will if they are doing it under the duress of a debt. Whatever the reason the debt "a pound of flesh" is hardly a reasonable means of payment.

 

An invasive alteration of the body is frowned upon by TCM and Chinese culture in general. It's definitely frowned upon by "Taoists"(whatever they are).

[Zhuo Ming-Dao]

Traditionally, in Chinese culture it was even frowned upon to cut your hair, since you we supposed to return your body to your ancestors as you received it as a matter of filial piety. This was one of the reasons why it was such a big deal to shave your head and become a Buddhism monk or nun.

 

 

On my last Driver's License renewal I stated that I wanted to be an organ donor. Of course, I hope to live so long that all my organs will be all used up and no one will want them. biggrin.gif

 

Keep in mind that nearly 90% of people who sign up as organ donors on their drivers licenses do not end up donating when they die because they did not express their wishes to their family members. Or sometimes their family members actively decided against donation after the person is dead.

 

One organ and tissue donor can save or dramatically improve the quality of life for up to other 27 people, so make sure your wishes are known or put your wishes in legal documentation.

[Gerard]

Without one kidney you will shorten your life by 50%. It is OK if you are already an arahant, otherwise you are doomed.

[markern]

But is there any sort of evidence for this in western medicine? If you lost half your life force than one should see very clearly and quickly that peopled started suffering and as far as I know that is not the case. Besides isen`t it a big difference between your physical kidney and your kideny chi on a deeper level?

[Marblehead]

A person couldn't really consider it free will if they are doing it under the duress of a debt. Whatever the reason the debt "a pound of flesh" is hardly a reasonable means of payment.

 

An invasive alteration of the body is frowned upon by TCM and Chinese culture in general. It's definitely frowned upon by "Taoists"(whatever they are).

 

I agree with you but I have this problem with saying anything about what someone else should or should not do with their body. That is why I am 'pro choice'.

 

I agree, Taoist philosophy and TCM would advise against it. But I responded to the original post from a personal perspective, not as a spokesperson for any belief system.

 

Happy Trails!

[theileon]

well i thought i would provide my own experience of having only one kidney, having had only one for the majority of my life. my left one never grew and was a strange walnut sized object that constantly gave me infections in my early childhood, till the doctors realised what was wrong and removed it in 1992 when i was 10.

 

As far as jing related problems go, i would say that i have suffered from a low energy until i came across chi gong/meditation. I have receding hair, at 27 years old I am missing around 20% or my head hair and in tcm this is an indication of kidney vitality. However different parts of the head are said to indicate the health of different organs, the 'widows peak' displays small intestine energy vitality, the top of the head the kidneys and the back the gall bladder.

 

In terms of energy i do think i have suffered in earlier life, photos of me when i was young show i had the classic kidney/ liver weakness signs of pale skin and dark rings under the eyes. Pollutants certainly take more of a toll on me than other people it seems, for example drugs and drink always seemed to affect me more negatively than my peers. i dont drink anymore.

 

These days however I believe have more vitality than the average 27 year old. Through meditation and chi gong i have built up my energy and certainly feel much more in my prime now than i ever did when i was 21...interestingly in a person who has only one kidney, the remaining one grows to make up for the other missing one. Kidney function tests (kidney yin) show i have 80% of a normal persons function.

 

from a tcm point of view, the kidney yang being the adrenals is not necessarily affected by only having one kidney, as they actually sit on top of the kidney and are a seperate structure from the kidney itself. i have both of my adrenal glands.

 

i trained kung fu in yangshuo china for a while...perhaps some people on here know the Gou family. the school there is run by 'papa' who is in his eighties and his two twin sons who are in their fifties, one of them, georgie, has only one kidney and is still truly powerful as a martial artist. he looked and acted more like he was in his thirties.

 

i think that although one may have only one kidney, and in tcm the kidney is "the root of all yin and yang in the body" there are processes related to this statement that go beyond the mere physical structure of the kidney in isolation. other organs also play a part in vitality, the liver and kidneys are very closely related (being water and wood) and with a weak or stagnant liver one is likely to have little energy no matter the state of the kidneys.

 

I think that as long as one knows their weaknesses they can compensate for them through energy work, diet, sexual moderation and can still lead a 'normal' healthy life. They may not be capable of huge feats of endurance but can work with rather than against their condition. This has been my experience.

[Encephalon]

well i thought i would provide my own experience of having only one kidney, having had only one for the majority of my life. my left one never grew and was a strange walnut sized object that constantly gave me infections in my early childhood, till the doctors realised what was wrong and removed it in 1992 when i was 10.

 

As far as jing related problems go, i would say that i have suffered from a low energy until i came across chi gong/meditation. I have receding hair, at 27 years old I am missing around 20% or my head hair and in tcm this is an indication of kidney vitality. However different parts of the head are said to indicate the health of different organs, the 'widows peak' displays small intestine energy vitality, the top of the head the kidneys and the back the gall bladder.

 

In terms of energy i do think i have suffered in earlier life, photos of me when i was young show i had the classic kidney/ liver weakness signs of pale skin and dark rings under the eyes. Pollutants certainly take more of a toll on me than other people it seems, for example drugs and drink always seemed to affect me more negatively than my peers. i dont drink anymore.

 

These days however I believe have more vitality than the average 27 year old. Through meditation and chi gong i have built up my energy and certainly feel much more in my prime now than i ever did when i was 21...interestingly in a person who has only one kidney, the remaining one grows to make up for the other missing one. Kidney function tests (kidney yin) show i have 80% of a normal persons function.

 

from a tcm point of view, the kidney yang being the adrenals is not necessarily affected by only having one kidney, as they actually sit on top of the kidney and are a seperate structure from the kidney itself. i have both of my adrenal glands.

 

i trained kung fu in yangshuo china for a while...perhaps some people on here know the Gou family. the school there is run by 'papa' who is in his eighties and his two twin sons who are in their fifties, one of them, georgie, has only one kidney and is still truly powerful as a martial artist. he looked and acted more like he was in his thirties.

 

i think that although one may have only one kidney, and in tcm the kidney is "the root of all yin and yang in the body" there are processes related to this statement that go beyond the mere physical structure of the kidney in isolation. other organs also play a part in vitality, the liver and kidneys are very closely related (being water and wood) and with a weak or stagnant liver one is likely to have little energy no matter the state of the kidneys.

 

I think that as long as one knows their weaknesses they can compensate for them through energy work, diet, sexual moderation and can still lead a 'normal' healthy life. They may not be capable of huge feats of endurance but can work with rather than against their condition. This has been my experience.

 

 

Thanks for this valuable contribution. Well done. My mother had to have one of her kidneys removed years ago. She's no fitness junkie but she seemed to weather it well and she's 71 and going strong.