Astral Dynamics (Revised 2nd Edition) By Robert Bruce

[Thunder_Gooch]

http://www.amazon.com/Astral-Dynamics-Out-...7401&sr=8-2

 

One of the most overlooked and and effective systems of energy work is robert bruce's system.

[Gerard]

One of the most overlooked and and effective systems of energy work is robert bruce's system.

 

This can turn into something interesting:

 

1. What does make you think OBEs are considered energy work?

 

2. Similarly are OBEs an answer to the eternal round of rebirths?

[Thunder_Gooch]

This book mostly deals with a system of energy work developed by bruce, as preparatory work for achieving an OBE. It deals with mental focus, deep trance states, and developing the ability to tactility feel energy move through your body while in a deep trance state. I'm not here for 20 questions anymore too much stuff going on.

[Gerard]

Yes, I understand what you are saying but still OBEs are a dead end. They lead to nowhere.

[松永道]

Yes, I understand what you are saying but still OBEs are a dead end. They lead to nowhere.

 

In Daoist culitvation, particularly the Lingbao Bifa and Taiyi Yinhua (Golden Flower), there are two type of out-of-body experience: Yin Shen and Yang Shen.

 

I wrote a topic on it a while ago.

 

Basically, a Yin Shen OBE occurs in deep relaxation/trance, when the body is relaxed or tired and the mind body connection is weakened. The mind just sort of pops out. Bruce even suggests attempting OBE after prolonged sleep deprivation and eye strain. Yang Shen OBE occurs in lotus-position (I'm not sure if half-lotus or other cross-legged positions can also achieve Yang Shen OBE), it is a long term cultivation that involves creating a type of energetic embryo. There is actual physical transformation involved. One of the more visible changes is a slight bump on the forehead (these bumps can be observed in many Taoist and Buddhist frescoes, though often accentuated to grotesque proportions).

 

I read the first edition of Astral Dynamics and definitely falls into the first category. Yin Shen cultivation is considered a dead-end in Taoism. In part, because Yin Shen OBE is hazy and dreamlike. Bruce himself admits that his OBEs are often quite influenced by imagination and hug the boarder between OBE and lucid dreaming. The Conversations of Zhong and Lu (Zhong Lu Chuan Dao Ji) comment, "Yin Shen cultivators mistakenly believe they are experiencing Dao, but this is laughable." One of the hurdles of Yang Shen cultivation is a stage of quieting the mind, sealing the senses, then separating reality from illusion. Yin Shen never separates reality from illusion.

 

That said, I thought his energy sensitivity exercises are good and I like his perspective in researching energy and consciousness. Though traditional schools claim he is researching a dead-end, I think what he produces can still be valuable.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Yes, I understand what you are saying but still OBEs are a dead end. They lead to nowhere.

 

This forum is a dead end, I am not sure why I even post here anymore. It's flooded with spiritual 4chaners, and just plain stupid new age douchebags in general.

 

Bruce's system deals primarily with energetic development, clearing out blockages, nourishing every part of the energetic body, strengthening it, this is the part I thought would be most valuable to TTB, not achieving an OBE, even though that too can be invaluable in a spiritual quest for knowledge. Edgar Cayce and Einstein both made extensive use of this state of consciousness to access higher knowledge.

 

Einstein used a technique where he would drift into a very deep trance and stay mentally focused on a problem, he would enter a lucid dream/ obe state and dream up the answers to his problems. He could engage every sense, in this dream like state, if he went too deep and fell completely asleep he would drop the handful of rocks he was holding to wake himself up and write down his answers.

 

I believe there is valuable knowledge to be gained from the depths of the unconscious mind much more than Einstein, Cayce, Tesla were able to tap into. I've tested Robert's system, I know it works and works well as an energetic development system. I also know that if you can use the OBE state as a tool for acquiring knowledge like Einstein, it can be a powerful resource.

 

In Daoist culitvation, particularly the Lingbao Bifa and Taiyi Yinhua (Golden Flower), there are two type of out-of-body experience: Yin Shen and Yang Shen.

 

I wrote a topic on it a while ago.

 

Basically, a Yin Shen OBE occurs in deep relaxation/trance, when the body is relaxed or tired and the mind body connection is weakened. The mind just sort of pops out. Bruce even suggests attempting OBE after prolonged sleep deprivation and eye strain. Yang Shen OBE occurs in lotus-position (I'm not sure if half-lotus or other cross-legged positions can also achieve Yang Shen OBE), it is a long term cultivation that involves creating a type of energetic embryo. There is actual physical transformation involved. One of the more visible changes is a slight bump on the forehead (these bumps can be observed in many Taoist and Buddhist frescoes, though often accentuated to grotesque proportions).

 

I read the first edition of Astral Dynamics and definitely falls into the first category. Yin Shen cultivation is considered a dead-end in Taoism. In part, because Yin Shen OBE is hazy and dreamlike. Bruce himself admits that his OBEs are often quite influenced by imagination and hug the boarder between OBE and lucid dreaming. The Conversations of Zhong and Lu (Zhong Lu Chuan Dao Ji) comment, "Yin Shen cultivators mistakenly believe they are experiencing Dao, but this is laughable." One of the hurdles of Yang Shen cultivation is a stage of quieting the mind, sealing the senses, then separating reality from illusion. Yin Shen never separates reality from illusion.

 

That said, I thought his energy sensitivity exercises are good and I like his perspective in researching energy and consciousness. Though traditional schools claim he is researching a dead-end, I think what he produces can still be valuable.

 

 

Do you know of any good texts for a western reader about developing the yang shen embryo?

Edited October 3, 2009 by More_Pie_Guy

[Desert Eagle]

Thanks MPG, I'll look it up.

[Creation]

Thanks for the info MPG. I have heard great things about Bruce's system, but I was waiting to buy Astral Dynamics until the second edition came out. On thing I noticed, though, is that it is substantially shorter than the first edition. Do you know why this is?

 

Also, where did you hear that tidbit about Einstein? That is fascinating! I heard a similar thing about Feynman, but I can't remember where. Some random web site...

[Mal]

2. Similarly are OBEs an answer to the eternal round of rebirths?

 

Guess what, some of us don't care so to me they are not a useless dead end. You do realize what this forum posting is using that criteria

 

Astral Dynamics is a good book, I have the 1st edition. The only downside for me was if you already have your life filled with practices you may not have enough available time to work through it. Lots of good info though.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Thanks for the info MPG. I have heard great things about Bruce's system, but I was waiting to buy Astral Dynamics until the second edition came out. On thing I noticed, though, is that it is substantially shorter than the first edition. Do you know why this is?

 

Also, where did you hear that tidbit about Einstein? That is fascinating! I heard a similar thing about Feynman, but I can't remember where. Some random web site...

 

The 2nd edition is much shorter because I believe Robert was trying to make it more concise and succinct. Robert is a great author but he likes to blabber on about a lot of nothing, his core teachings could be distilled down to a few paragraphs.

 

I believe I read about it first from a book called the Einstein Factor, by Dr. Win Wenger. It deals a variation of Einstein's process in which the user speaks aloud to a voice recorder while lucid dreaming or as the author calls it image-streaming. http://winwenger.com/ http://winwenger.com/ebooks/guaran.htm His techniques are reported to enhance mental acuity and increase intelligence in general, I believe this to be true.

Edited October 3, 2009 by More_Pie_Guy

[Mal]

Utilizing the diving response is rather clever, thanks for the link

[Zhuo Ming-Dao]

To anyone who owns the first and second edition:

 

If I already own the first edition, is it worth my time and money to buy the second edition as well? Is there much new information?

 

 

I also wanted to chime in about the merits of this energy development system. I spent quiet a while doing qi gong moves with no ability to actually feel qi. After a few days with this system I could feel it clearly and manipulate it at will. After a few months I had cleared out huge blockages and created a sustainable flow, and after less then a year my microcosmic orbit was powerfully surging through my body. This system is clearer and more to the point than Mantak Chia, or really any other Buddhist, Hindu or Taoist explanation and instruction into energy control that I have ever read.

 

From there, if you want to cultivate conscious out of body experiences, go for it. If you do meditation long enough, though, OBEs and lucid dreams will come on their own, whether you think they are helpful or not. Even the historical Buddha engaged in OBE in the Pali texts, even if he did not offer it as a method for liberation.

[gendao]

Do you know of any good texts for a western reader about developing the yang shen embryo?

All the classical Taoist alchemical texts are geared towards cultivating the yang shen embryo and vaporizing the mundane body.

 

Just looking at a few I have on hand on my shelf:

 

Taoist Yoga: Alchemy & Immortality - Probably the most detailed how-to book I have. And probably also the most repetitive and obtuse...lol.

Cultivating the Energy of Life - Gives a more concise outline of the process and confirmatory signs, but not much in the way of mechanical details...

The Tao of Meditation: Way to Enlightenment - An empirical summary of the process briefly in plain English, although with a lot of off-topic commentary. Also includes an interesting cultivation diary by a student that notes various "detoxing" symptoms he experienced, "qi" erections and feeling circulation in his MCO in under 3 months...

 

Personally, I'm finally just starting to see the common process these esoteric books (and others) are all trying to describe now. I don't know of a really clear, modern instructional book today, though.

Edited October 5, 2009 by vortex

[topflight]

I own both the first and second editions. The second edition is completely rewritten. He has taken everything in the first book and everything he learned in the past 10 years and boiled it down to the essentials. I'm only through chapter 5 in the second edition, but I like it better than the first. One of the chapters talks about affirmations and your higher self as a way to manifest some of your abilities. I learned how to feel and manipulate energy in my body using methods from the first edition so I think his work has much merit.

Edited October 5, 2009 by topflight

[Enishi]

I did follow the first edition for awhile to try to have a projection before losing interest and switching to other stuff. I might get the second edition sometime though.

[-O-]

 

 

Do you know of any good texts for a western reader about developing the yang shen embryo?

 

 

 

Charles Luk's Toaist Yoga

 

 

 

... it goes into this and also states that the Yin shen is preliminary to the yang shen and if worked too much (more then once or twice) will destroy the cultivation up to that point - or prevents the yang shen from emerging. The tell tale sign between the two is the yin shen can not interact with and is not seen in the physical where the yang shen can been seen by others and can effect/interact with the world. The yang shen is immortality - the yin shen is one step toward completion of the yang shen and if considered the end result will be a fatal mistake... also too much visualization prevents the yang shen as well.

[Guest sykkelpump]

http://www.amazon.com/Astral-Dynamics-Out-...7401&sr=8-2

 

One of the most overlooked and and effective systems of energy work is robert bruce's system.

 

 

Nope,this system actually can make energy blocks way worse.I tried it for a long time and got all kind of bad effects.It is not very unlogical,not only do you force the energy in a pattern but you actually train to move energy against its normal flow in many of the exercises.which can cause stagnation in the meridians.The exercises did create some feelings but not chi,like in meditation.this is just new age bullshit.and also when i was reading on the forums people had very little sucess with this,but many had pressure in their head and other side effects.I have opened lots of blocks in my body and imo this is the worst kind of forcing exercise you can do.

Edited October 5, 2009 by sykkelpump

[zencave]

Nope,this system actually can make energy blocks way worse.I tried it for a long time and got all kind of bad effects.It is not very unlogical,not only do you force the energy in a pattern but you actually train to move energy against its normal flow in many of the exercises.which can cause stagnation in the meridians.The exercises did create some feelings but not chi,like in meditation.this is just new age bullshit.and also when i was reading on the forums people had very little sucess with this,but many had pressure in their head and other side effects.I have opened lots of blocks in my body and imo this is the worst kind of forcing exercise you can do.

 

I had some issues with Bruce's methods also. If you don't mind, can you tell me what practices helped you - any particular chi kung or cultivation practice?