How would you design a Taoist educational system

[Encephalon]

[Zhuo Ming-Dao]

This is a fascinating scenario!

 

As a junior high/high school teacher myself I would love to give some of my ideas from what I have seen.

 

The most important point - Classes should be small! If we have 25 students, we should have about three classes. That gives students enough peers to drive them to deeper exploration, but not so many to create real distractions or to fall behind.

 

Perhaps the biggest problem that I am faced with as a teacher is lack of attention and focus of the students in the classroom (granted, I am working in a pretty great teaching environment right now). This problem could be solved with a combination of meditation and deliberate, disciplined martial arts spread throughout the day. This would give the kids the focus to be engaged in class for longer periods and in more meaningful ways.

 

The biggest thing that I would take away from the model used at the charter school where I work now is the great books seminar model. Basically, the students read some of the greatest books ever written and come into class to talk about them in a circle discussion format. In the younger grades we read things like Aesop's Fables and Treasure Island, and in the higher grades we read things such as Plato and Descartes. This works beautifully for both history and literature. It develops their deep thinking skills, discussion and debate abilities, and it makes history and literature something meaningful and personal and real. The only change that I would make would be to add in a bunch of Asian texts.

 

(If anyone here is interested in this, there is a good watered-down system with lesson plans already made up called Touch-Stones. It is very effective in public school environments).

 

Just as history and literature would be more based around self exploration and development of ideas, so too should science and math. I think that the natural environment should be used as fully as possible to act as a laboratory for geometry and any type of science. It would be interesting to integrate meditative/energetic/contemplative studies into this using the scientific method. It could be something that they experiment with, test for reproducibility, and take the evidence that they individually gather to form theories about the nature of reality and subjective experience. This could line up with their philosophical studies in very interesting ways.

 

I would also want to make sure that we are not burning them out with "homework." Given the model that we are working with and class sizes, most work could be done in class. The biggest out of class thing to do would be reading.

 

We would also want to some how integrate much more practical pursuits, such as musical training, art, hunting, sewing, navigating, and so on.

 

I do not know how I would want to organize all of this, but it is certainly worth some serious thought.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Zhuo Ming-Dao

[松永道]

Great topic.

 

I like to think about a similar scenario - though I scratch the pre-1850s nostalgia, even the Amish are going high-tech with wind and solar generators. Self-sufficiency and localized economy should be the goal and new, green technologies give us the chance to go local again.

 

On education, practical skills should be taught on a rotating schedule (medical school clinical rounds comes to mind). All students train with an accomplished farmer, weaver, mechanic, etc; then older students choose to specialize and apprentice in their favorite field. Basically, every adult in the community should be a part-time teacher. And this should be in addition to formal studies of the Great Books (great idea), history, math, music, science, exercise, etc.

 

 

 

Honestly, I think the hardest thing about putting together a community like this would be finding a good group of adults. A big group of motivated, intelligent, capable people who can work together is hard find. One rotten apple left to fester will ruin the whole bunch.

[Marblehead]

Although I do not teach I would want the entire education system built around a base of the natural (Earth)sciences.

 

Happy Trails!

[Encephalon]

Great topic.

 

I like to think about a similar scenario - though I scratch the pre-1850s nostalgia, even the Amish are going high-tech with wind and solar generators. Self-sufficiency and localized economy should be the goal and new, green technologies give us the chance to go local again.

 

On education, practical skills should be taught on a rotating schedule (medical school clinical rounds comes to mind). All students train with an accomplished farmer, weaver, mechanic, etc; then older students choose to specialize and apprentice in their favorite field. Basically, every adult in the community should be a part-time teacher. And this should be in addition to formal studies of the Great Books (great idea), history, math, music, science, exercise, etc.

Honestly, I think the hardest thing about putting together a community like this would be finding a good group of adults. A big group of motivated, intelligent, capable people who can work together is hard find. One rotten apple left to fester will ruin the whole bunch.

 

Aaarghhh! You stole my thunder.

Exactly the scenario I had imagined - kids being rotated throughout the entire facility, becoming familiar with all the dimensions of sustainability practice. I imagine all kinds of physical science and mathematics lessons unfolding jsut from the construction of the place - rammed earth construction, gray water systems, permaculture, small scale electricity generation, appropriate technology.

 

I inserted the pre-1850 technology clause not for nostalgia but from a hunch that we will be powering down considerably after peak oil hits the scene.

 

How would Taoists teach children how to hunt? What would they say about shooting deer? Something akin to Native American sentiment, I presume.

[Marblehead]

 

How would Taoists teach children how to hunt? What would they say about shooting deer? Something akin to Native American sentiment, I presume.

 

In my mind that is exactly the way it would be. Of course, my opinion should be of no surprise as it is with NA spirituality that my spirituality lies.

 

Happy Trails!

[Pax]

Great topic.

 

I like to think about a similar scenario - though I scratch the pre-1850s nostalgia, even the Amish are going high-tech with wind and solar generators. Self-sufficiency and localized economy should be the goal and new, green technologies give us the chance to go local again.

 

On education, practical skills should be taught on a rotating schedule (medical school clinical rounds comes to mind). All students train with an accomplished farmer, weaver, mechanic, etc; then older students choose to specialize and apprentice in their favorite field. Basically, every adult in the community should be a part-time teacher. And this should be in addition to formal studies of the Great Books (great idea), history, math, music, science, exercise, etc.

Honestly, I think the hardest thing about putting together a community like this would be finding a good group of adults. A big group of motivated, intelligent, capable people who can work together is hard find. One rotten apple left to fester will ruin the whole bunch.

Very similar to the education system described in Marge Piercy's 1978 book Woman On The Edge Of Time. Children are given the opportunity to find their own path in life and pursue their own interests, everyone takes a hand in raising them and offering guidance.

[Pietro]

finally an interesting topic (sorry to all the others).

 

 

Let me share something. It is a school system that started in Italy during WWII (I think). Since there were few adults the parents of the kids started to take an active role in the school. They were all moved into a big room, with the adults spread out, and each adult speaking about a different topic. Then the kid by voting with the feet would go toward what they were interested in.

 

I think it is called in "metodo emiliano". But I am not sure. The only article on the spot I can find, was here: http://www.agoravox.it/Il-Governo-ha-paura...modello-di.html

 

Now the interesting thing is that in the US there have been schools that have started copying the method, and a teacher told me it was due to Clinton, who imported it.

 

I have a friend who told me how he went with his kids to the stated for a season , and the kids studied in a "different" school (like the one I described above). He said that single season gave them a lot. More than years of their common school in Switzerland. Maybe you could investigate it, and set up something like that. Maybe some adults could teach while they are doing works.

 

 

Additions:

So, I found a better article that describes it, but still in Italian:

http://www.ciln.mcmaster.ca/papers/seconf/italy.pdf

The school is described on page 4, 5, and 6. On page 5 it describes how in 1992 Newsweek run an investigation on the best primary schools and found that the best in the world where in Emilia. Of course no one it Italy was aware that we had such a jewel. After that President Clinton investigated it and (the rest is history).

If you are really interested you could look if you can find the original article from the Newsweek.

Note the phrase "modello emiliano" is in brackets. Maybe you can use that as a keyword.

Edited October 4, 2009 by Pietro

[33865_1494798762]

Edited October 4, 2009 by Guest

[Pietro]

One of the things we need to understand is, what freedom does the law of your country give you?

 

Let's be practical, in what country is all this happening? In most countries education is by now a legal requirement, so the suggestions, to be realistic, and have a chance to be adopted, should take into consideration this.

 

Some countries permit home schooling, but there are often exams at the end of the year to make sure the kids are not falling behind respect to the other kids in the country. On the one side we are all romanticizing the old times, on the other it is education that is giving us freedom.

 

Do you know what people in Tehran are saying. Not the students, but the bullies. The guys that have been employed by the government to beat, torture and rape dissenters? They say (I cite from memory, as I don't have the time to look up the original on the web): (in Farsi) "I will torture you because you know English, you are educated, and the whole world is open to you."

 

Those people are enraged that they had no real education. And this made them prone to be manipulated by the government, and able to torture people.

 

It is common for religious people to discount education outside their religion. It has happened again and again in history. Let us not make the same error with the kids of a Taoist community.

[inmoment]

...I have designed a bit educational system in TAO, for designers....

[Tree04]

[Gerard]

Subjects to teach:

 

1. TCM

2. Tuina and chi nei tsang

3. Qigong + Internal Martial Arts (IMA)

4. Sitting meditation and star gazing

5. Dream practice

5. Astrology, divination and physiognomy

6. Chinese classics

7. Calligraphy

8. Music

9. Edited: I forgot Diet

Edited October 6, 2009 by durkhrod chogori

[Encephalon]

The Great Books series is a must have. Great point about the homework.

 

"On education, practical skills should be taught on a rotating schedule (medical school clinical rounds comes to mind). All students train with an accomplished farmer, weaver, mechanic, etc; then older students choose to specialize and apprentice in their favorite field. Basically, every adult in the community should be a part-time teacher. And this should be in addition to formal studies of the Great Books (great idea), history, math, music, science, exercise, etc."

 

Great idea. Keep 'em circulating. Ideally, you would want each of them to have some familiarity with each of the facility's functions; AG, energy, animal husbandry, crafts, etc.

 

"Let's be practical, in what country is all this happening? In most countries education is by now a legal requirement, so the suggestions, to be realistic, and have a chance to be adopted, should take into consideration this."

 

My dream countries would either be Canada (BC) or New Zealand, but there are a lot of intentional communities that are functioning in a similar manner throughout the world - www.ic.org

 

I love Durkhrod's curriculum design. I imagine conventional academics - the Three Rs -playing a slightly larger role than formal Taoist subject matter, at least for children. Permaculture will necessitate a lot of learning too, if all available man-hours are not used up in the process of food production.

 

Thanks for your input. My ego was hoping for a livelier exchange, but I value all of your inputs!

[Pax]

...Let's be practical, in what country is all this happening? In most countries education is by now a legal requirement, so the suggestions, to be realistic, and have a chance to be adopted, should take into consideration this.

I have a co-worker whose children are being homeschooled this way. The trick is, never enroll them in school in the first place, that way they are out of the loop of awareness of "the system".

 

Her husband stays home during the days and the kids follow their interests, he exposes them to all manner of new ideas and choices...they can read and complete math problems years ahead of the traditionally schooled peers. When they want to learn about the natural world, their dad loads them in the van and they spend their days at the river or studying a meadow. Both children were taught to meditate and do so now on their own. They are nine and ten years years old and lead full, interesting lives...I dearly wish I could have been educated this way.

[Pietro]

The Great Books series is a must have. Great point about the homework.

 

"On education, practical skills should be taught on a rotating schedule (medical school clinical rounds comes to mind). All students train with an accomplished farmer, weaver, mechanic, etc; then older students choose to specialize and apprentice in their favorite field. Basically, every adult in the community should be a part-time teacher. And this should be in addition to formal studies of the Great Books (great idea), history, math, music, science, exercise, etc."

 

Great idea. Keep 'em circulating. Ideally, you would want each of them to have some familiarity with each of the facility's functions; AG, energy, animal husbandry, crafts, etc.

 

"Let's be practical, in what country is all this happening? In most countries education is by now a legal requirement, so the suggestions, to be realistic, and have a chance to be adopted, should take into consideration this."

 

My dream countries would either be Canada (BC) or New Zealand, but there are a lot of intentional communities that are functioning in a similar manner throughout the world - www.ic.org

 

I love Durkhrod's curriculum design. I imagine conventional academics - the Three Rs -playing a slightly larger role than formal Taoist subject matter, at least for children. Permaculture will necessitate a lot of learning too, if all available man-hours are not used up in the process of food production.

 

Thanks for your input. My ego was hoping for a livelier exchange, but I value all of your inputs!

 

Well, we need tounderstand what age are we speakign about.

I mean, will you teach them calligraphy before teaching them reading and writing?

Will you teach them astrology... but not astronomy?

 

I think all those are fine (except maybe astrology and few others) as complementary skills. But you need to give them the foundations. Now this does not mean to teach them in the same way we were taught. Mathematics need to be taught, and so history and literature. You can make it world literature, and explain history with mindmaps, and other cool education tools we have developed in those years.

 

But the big risk, is in making those kids unable to live in the world.

 

The suggestion of keeping the kid under the radar, so the system never have awareness of them is simply naively and extremely silly. Unless the state has some ways to integrate those kids later in life you are essentially forcing your kids to be second class citizens. The intentional communities around (for what I know, all of them) work under the principle that the kids do exams from time to time, so that their level is legally equivalent to the other kids. This because those kids need, once they are 18, be able to leave the community, and go and meet the world. They need to be free, and maybe to enroll in a university. Maybe for you, right now, this is not important. Fine. But you are making decisions for small people who have no way to make decisions themselves. Even if your skills as educator were fine, and perfect, and better than the ones of professional educators, your kids will still miss a piece of paper that proves it. And without that piece of paper they will, effectively, have a glass ceiling above them.

 

Consider instead ways to give them an equivalent, equally valid, education. And to complement it with all you know.

[Pax]

 

 

The suggestion of keeping the kid under the radar, so the system never have awareness of them is simply naively and extremely silly. Unless the state has some ways to integrate those kids later in life you are essentially forcing your kids to be second class citizens.

Hmmm, fairly incorrect assumption here, I'll chalk it up to cultural differences.

 

Keeping the kids off the radar doesn't mean they're being secretive/naive/silly, it simply means they are listed with the state as "home schooled", however, if a child is registered in the public school system and then removed for home schooling the motives are suspect and the family is then subject to frequent mandatory visits from school social workers and truancy officials.

[Encephalon]

Hmmm, fairly incorrect assumption here, I'll chalk it up to cultural differences.

 

Keeping the kids off the radar doesn't mean they're being secretive/naive/silly, it simply means they are listed with the state as "home schooled", however, if a child is registered in the public school system and then removed for home schooling the motives are suspect and the family is then subject to frequent mandatory visits from school social workers and truancy officials.

 

Yes, I would have to say that this thread has unraveled in customary TTB fashion. Forgive me if the points I intoduced in the first thread were not clear enough.

 

First of all, I defined the project as a small scale community. I'm not out to redesign the educational wheel for an entire nation or culture. I was imagining a not too distant future where resource flows are subject to a dramatic constriction, where people will have to downsize and adopt some measure of communitarian ethos. (This is another subject that we can argue elsewhere.)

 

I was attempting to cast a traditional "Yellow River Valley" Taoist community in a post-oil, post-consumer economy scenario. There are legitimate models in effect at this time. Perhaps it would be best to affirm an understanding of each other's ideas before we start accusing each other of silliness and naivete.

[Pax]

My apologies Blasto. This topic is indeed fascinating and I will remain on topic in the future.

[Encephalon]

My apologies Blasto. This topic is indeed fascinating and I will remain on topic in the future.

 

No apologies necessary. I wasn't referring to your comments; I failed to quote properly.