TheSongsofDistantEarth Posted October 31, 2009 Ah, but liberation is all about how one inwardly and intuitively interprets reality. So, liberation is about right cognition. What then, is 'right cognition'. Is it limited to Buddhist cognition? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheSongsofDistantEarth Posted October 31, 2009 Ah, but liberation is all about how one inwardly and intuitively interprets reality. So, liberation is about right cognition. What then, is 'right cognition'. Is it limited to Buddhist cognition? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TzuJanLi Posted October 31, 2009 Greetings.. Ah, but liberation is all about how one inwardly and intuitively interprets reality. I understand your meaning, but.. it has been my experience that the 'interpretation' is useful only if you are unable to acheive Clarity.. with Clarity the process reveals itself without interpretation.. in a purely 'Now' experience, the 'interpretation' separates the experiencer from the experience.. intuition, when emergent with Clarity, 'fits' the current situation without invoking interpretation.. A particularly 'aware' mentor of mine was telling one of his 'stories'.. as i sensed the lesson, i remarked that the subject of his story was a 'liberated' being.. he laughed good-naturedly and said: 'No, you just imprisoned him"... Be well.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vajrahridaya Posted October 31, 2009 Greetings.. I understand your meaning, but.. it has been my experience that the 'interpretation' is useful only if you are unable to acheive Clarity.. with Clarity the process reveals itself without interpretation.. in a purely 'Now' experience, the 'interpretation' separates the experiencer from the experience.. intuition, when emergent with Clarity, 'fits' the current situation without invoking interpretation.. A particularly 'aware' mentor of mine was telling one of his 'stories'.. as i sensed the lesson, i remarked that the subject of his story was a 'liberated' being.. he laughed good-naturedly and said: 'No, you just imprisoned him"... Be well.. Yes, I understand, I used to believe the same way. But Samsara comes so natural and one can be so deep within it. One must have both the realization of non-duality beyond subject and object, but without the subtle clinging to a universal essence. One must interpret correctly as well, on an intuitive level. Buddhas are most definitely liberated, so not bound. This is not a concept, it's quite clearly understood as clarity and method, or wisdom and method. Most paths think that if you just meditate, you'll attain liberation, but Buddhism just doesn't agree. You have to have right view. In Buddhism, liberation is the condition of right cognition. Because there is no essence that one can rely on, it is different from the mysticism that most religions share. Take care. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ralis Posted October 31, 2009 (edited) Yes, I understand, I used to believe the same way. But Samsara comes so natural and one can be so deep within it. One must have both the realization of non-duality beyond subject and object, but without the subtle clinging to a universal essence. One must interpret correctly as well, on an intuitive level. Buddhas are most definitely liberated, so not bound. This is not a concept, it's quite clearly understood as clarity and method, or wisdom and method. Most paths think that if you just meditate, you'll attain liberation, but Buddhism just doesn't agree. You have to have right view. In Buddhism, liberation is the condition of right cognition. Because there is no essence that one can rely on, it is different from the mysticism that most religions share. Take care. The Buddhist view is just another view. Just more propaganda. The so called right view sounds like brain washing to me! Who determines how one interprets reality? Prove there is no universal essence! No matter how you frame your arguments, you still are positing concepts. "This is not a concept". It is a concept. You remind me of fundamentalist tv preachers. ralis Edited October 31, 2009 by ralis Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rebelrebel Posted October 31, 2009 Ah, but liberation is all about how one inwardly and intuitively interprets reality. So, liberation is about right cognition. You still think liberation is about interpretation? It has nothing to do with that. If anything, interpretation is the very opposite of liberation. Oh well, keep on thinking what you want I guess... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nac Posted October 31, 2009 I don't hate Buddhists, or anyone else. I just find some of the statements confusing. If truly so Sorry about that, I was just curious to see your reaction. I typed out a detailed response which was wiped away by a power cut. That's samsara for you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vajrahridaya Posted October 31, 2009 (edited) You still think liberation is about interpretation? It has nothing to do with that. If anything, interpretation is the very opposite of liberation. Oh well, keep on thinking what you want I guess... No, it's liberation from anyone rightly interpreting while rightly interpreting. Ah! Edited October 31, 2009 by Vajrahridaya Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TzuJanLi Posted October 31, 2009 Greetings.. One must have both the realization of non-duality beyond subject and object, but without the subtle clinging to a universal essence "Non-duality"? How does the 'unique' perspective you know as 'you' perceive 'non-duality'?.. Here's another example of the mis-use of terminology, true non-duality has no perceiver, no perception.. no anything at all.. but, i've had this discussion many times, and.. people that favor this perspective refuse to detach from it.. My experiences reveal a 'process' where the Source manifests its self-awareness as we/us/life.. and, oddly enough, we/us/life try to return to Source.. it is the rare fully awake being that realizes the circular/cyclical nature of this process, and.. "goes where no man has gone before", beyond.. the 'process will forever be stagnated in variations on a theme, until.. it is realized that returning to Source is its own prison.. Source has Infinity and Eternity with which to evolve into infinite and eternal potentials.. but, its vehicle for evolution keeps returning, like a persistent boomerang.. it's like releasing a captive bird that keeps flying back into the cage.. we/us/life are Source evolving.. or, some keep returning to the 'nest'.. The traditions you believe will liberate you are actually the the prisons that confine you.. you attach to foreign words, abstract concepts and rituals upon rituals.. then, declare that others are clinging? i choose to greet each day, each experience as a fresh new possibility.. another opportunity to advance my personal understandings/experiences, and, by virtue of the Unity of ALL things, advance the evolution of the Source.. i experience the Universe as a living organism growing into the Infinite and Eternal Void, each experience adding to its understanding.. each experience, each manifestation adds to the 'organism's' growth.. i don't wake up each day thinking 'this is how it is', i wake up curious about 'how it will be'.. Almost all 'paths', Buddhists included, begin with a premise.. and, that is the attachment that confines.. Be well.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted October 31, 2009 Nice post TzuJanLi. I like this: ... it's like releasing a captive bird that keeps flying back into the cage... Peace & Love! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vajrahridaya Posted October 31, 2009 (edited) Greetings.. "Non-duality"? How does the 'unique' perspective you know as 'you' perceive 'non-duality'?.. Here's another example of the mis-use of terminology, true non-duality has no perceiver, no perception.. no anything at all.. but, i've had this discussion many times, and.. people that favor this perspective refuse to detach from it.. My experiences reveal a 'process' where the Source manifests its self-awareness as we/us/life.. and, oddly enough, we/us/life try to return to Source.. it is the rare fully awake being that realizes the circular/cyclical nature of this process, and.. "goes where no man has gone before", beyond.. the 'process will forever be stagnated in variations on a theme, until.. it is realized that returning to Source is its own prison.. Source has Infinity and Eternity with which to evolve into infinite and eternal potentials.. but, its vehicle for evolution keeps returning, like a persistent boomerang.. it's like releasing a captive bird that keeps flying back into the cage.. we/us/life are Source evolving.. or, some keep returning to the 'nest'.. The traditions you believe will liberate you are actually the the prisons that confine you.. you attach to foreign words, abstract concepts and rituals upon rituals.. then, declare that others are clinging? i choose to greet each day, each experience as a fresh new possibility.. another opportunity to advance my personal understandings/experiences, and, by virtue of the Unity of ALL things, advance the evolution of the Source.. i experience the Universe as a living organism growing into the Infinite and Eternal Void, each experience adding to its understanding.. each experience, each manifestation adds to the 'organism's' growth.. i don't wake up each day thinking 'this is how it is', i wake up curious about 'how it will be'.. Almost all 'paths', Buddhists included, begin with a premise.. and, that is the attachment that confines.. Be well.. First of all we don't believe in a source so our practices have a different cause and a different result. We also have a different interpretation of non-duality. Your's is, all things are one, for us, it's all things have no inherent nature, but are still many, just all equally empty of substratum. Or to put it another, there is no Eternal nature that is real and true, there is only impermanence, nothing inherent that is permanent. I don't cling to what you consider is clinging, I just use what's beneficial, that's all. Our premise is the first words of the Buddha after he attained enlightenment, "mind and it's phenomena are uncompounded, free, and naturally liberated since beginningless time." Not really a confining premise unless one doesn't understand what this means experientially and even philosophically. Edited October 31, 2009 by Vajrahridaya Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
