Going Theravadin Taoist-style!

[nac]

Right but who are the "leaders" of nonwestern spirituality? Ken Wilber? Ram Dass? Osho? In fact even in China, as qigong master Effie P. Chow details in her "Miracles Healing in China" book -- female healers are DRIVEN OUT OF THE COUNTRY because the spiritual masters are supposed to be MEN.

 

Now is this sexist or is there another reason? As I've discovered through the "O at a D" psychic mutual climax -- the female electrochemical jing energy (kundalini or N/um) is the SOURCE for the male power and the male 3rd Eye healing is transmitting electromagnetic chi or laser shen back into the female. This is from complementary opposite harmonics -- meaning it's a NATURAL inherent resonance of life-force energy -- think "sexual tension" on steroids. haha.

 

So yes there are MORE females practicing nonwestern healing, etc. but their "leader" is usually a male and guess what -- his "power" is FROM THE FEMALES! So it's all interconnected and yet this complementary opposite tantric dynamics to nonwestern meditation healing and enlightenment is IGNORED by Western white male spiritualists -- there's a fixation on philosophy be it Advaita or Buddhism, etc. -- yet only the full-lotus truly enables sublimating the sex energy in modern society.

 

Full-lotus padmasana is the foundation practice for the Brahmacharya (sp?) tradition -- the sublimation of sex energy is what enables yogic spirituality. Is it "necessary"? No but mind yoga was dependent on having NO CONTACT with females -- even visual contact. The Brahmin priests had to do a 3 day purification ritual if there was visual contact with females -- because mind yoga otherwise would not sublimate and purify the sex energy.

 

Thanks again for dialoging with me -- sharing your opinion so I can share mine as well. haha.

 

Now where's SereneBlue?

There are many female lamas in Tibet, India and the west. I'm sure there must be several female Taoist masters too. Are you saying that full-lotus meditation alone can result in complete enlightenment without any philosophical study whatsoever? If you want to answer my questions, you can send me a PM if you like.

[voidisyinyang]

Formless reality is not a deity -- it's based on the universe being an illusion along with an form of god -- any experience of an astral realm as a separate experience. But does that mean Advaita relies on some static unity -- no -- the PRACTICE is the GOAL of advaita and it's an eternal process, again just like dependent origination. So it's not just being stuck in the formless realm -- it's the 3 in 1 process -- the bliss-being-consciousness resonating with formless awareness process. The process is by LISTENING not fixating on an object or realm, etc.

 

Wow -- that's a new one for me as per Advaita -- do you have any references about Advaita relying on "re-absorption at the end of a cosmic eon"?

It's standard Advaita not to really talk about it much, but it's talked about a bit in Vasisthas Yoga which I recommend if you want to see the entirety of Advaita as well as it's limitations in omniscience. Since we are all expressions of the one Brahman at the start of the universe, at the end we are all re-absorbed into the single deity, since we are all just energies of the one transcendent being. This being expresses and re-absorbs the cosmos over and over again. So, liberation under that view is not permanent and thus not true liberation at all as it's still a Samsaric interpretation of spiritual experience which is why Nagarjuna said, "Other paths lead to the edge of Samsara, but only Buddhadharma leads to the end of Samsara."

Yes, but we see them as expressing how dependent origination works as a cosmic process and thus don't see the cycles as the play of one deity.

 

To understand this subtle difference will put an end to the idea that Advaita leads to the same realization as any Mahayana or Buddhist path.

The liberation of these beings is basing itself on the paradigm that all complexity resolves into a single transcendent substratum. So, according to Buddhism, their liberation is not eternal.

Yes, and you might find yourself re-absorbed into a formless realm. Your clinging to an experience without concept. Did you not read my poem I quoted from Saraha? You are thinking your peak experience is something more than it is. It's just a jhana state and that is all.

Your just thinking that oneness is the ultimate reality. This is not seeing dependent origination.

Maybe so. There are very high levels of delusion.

I used to as well and argued for years from your position. But I hadn't yet seen and understood the subtle difference between Dependent Origination and Vedanta yet.

[nac]

Please see my post on mind yoga as my last reply to NAC -- the monastery tradition relies on females FEEDING the male monks and in turn there is a tantric electromagnetic transmission back to the females. Is this discussed in Buddhist theravada teachings? I haven't come across it -- yet it's the experiential complementary opposite reality. In fact in Thailand successful monks have the problem of being considered SEX SYMBOLS by the "liberated" females. haha.

The lay men and lay women feeding the monks and nuns, you mean. Are you sure about everything you've said here?

 

BTW The majority of the Taiwanese Sangha is composed of nuns. Ask Shi Hong Yang in E-Sangha if you don't believe me.

Edited October 13, 2009 by nac

[voidisyinyang]

All these traditions actually come from the Bushmen -- that's an anthropological truth! Do the Bushmen rely on "philosophical study"? Maybe -- they don't have a WRITTEN language though which is left-brain dominant. Their speaking language relies on more right brain musical sounds -- they have a TONAL language and the most sophisticated language on the planet! The training relies on MUSIC for effects -- and it's intuition yet very practical.

 

When you enter into telepathy, telekinesis, precognition -- then words are no longer effective means. It's like extreme sports -- there's no TIME for talking -- body language and 3rd eye communication is the means.

 

Is that "philosophy" -- originally the word mean the LOVE OF SOPHIA -- from Pythagoras who demanded his students practice 9 years of SILENCE!!

 

True meditation doesn't rely on repeating words in the head, etc. Does that mean it's not philosophy -- logical InFERENCE is the SOURCE of the I-thought -- through listening. It doesn't use words yet points at the truth as inference. So you repeat I-I-I at first with the philosophical quest to see the source of the I-thought.

 

Is this "Just" another concept -- or is it the source of the ego enabling the continued focus on the truth of reality -- instead of getting endless lost in astral realms, powers, WORDS, etc.

 

Again I rely in MUSIC which is neither left-brain logical inference nor right-brain visual-based philosophy. Yet logical inference is LISTENING which is also music -- and music is right-brain dominant. So music connects and transcends the difference of Advaita and Buddhism.

 

There are many female lamas in Tibet, India and the west. I'm sure there must be several female Taoist masters too. Are you saying that full-lotus meditation alone can result in complete enlightenment without any philosophical study whatsoever? If you want to answer my questions, you can send me a PM if you like.

[Vajrahridaya]

Now if you're just practicing mind yoga you can THINK you've achieved all the jhanas just as tons of Advaita practitioners think they've already achieved sahaja samadhi -- it's a BIG joke.

 

I did years of body yogas and full lotus though I achieved formless Jhanas from 5th Jhana on in half lotus just fine. I don't find full lotus necessary at all in fact. I did lots of Bhakti as an Advaitin and awareness is needed to integrate rigpa. I practiced sitting meditation for 2 to 4 or more hours daily and did lots of chanting and visualizations for years.

 

So no, I'm not merely a Jhana yogi.

 

Also, Dzogchen is a different process than what you are stating. One gets the transmission of Rigpa, then integrates this realization with all things every day without meditation. Though, if one cannot even go into Samadhi, it's doubtful that one has gotten any Rigpa.

[nac]

All these traditions actually come from the Bushmen -- that's an anthropological truth! Do the Bushmen rely on "philosophical study"? Maybe -- they don't have a WRITTEN language though which is left-brain dominant. Their speaking language relies on more right brain musical sounds -- they have a TONAL language and the most sophisticated language on the planet! The training relies on MUSIC for effects -- and it's intuition yet very practical.

 

When you enter into telepathy, telekinesis, precognition -- then words are no longer effective means. It's like extreme sports -- there's no TIME for talking -- body language and 3rd eye communication is the means.

 

Is that "philosophy" -- originally the word mean the LOVE OF SOPHIA -- from Pythagoras who demanded his students practice 9 years of SILENCE!!

 

True meditation doesn't rely on repeating words in the head, etc. Does that mean it's not philosophy -- logical InFERENCE is the SOURCE of the I-thought -- through listening. It doesn't use words yet points at the truth as inference. So you repeat I-I-I at first with the philosophical quest to see the source of the I-thought.

 

Is this "Just" another concept -- or is it the source of the ego enabling the continued focus on the truth of reality -- instead of getting endless lost in astral realms, powers, WORDS, etc.

 

Again I rely in MUSIC which is neither left-brain logical inference nor right-brain visual-based philosophy. Yet logical inference is LISTENING which is also music -- and music is right-brain dominant. So music connects and transcends the difference of Advaita and Buddhism.

 

I'm more of a fan of Diogenes, actually. I hope you won't take it amiss if I told you to temper your enthusiasm with some critical thinking. (and maybe a little philosophical study as well?) I have no intention of offending you, but there's really no way to respond rationally to posts like this, sorry.

[Vajrahridaya]

Formless reality is not a deity -- it's based on the universe being an illusion along with an form of god -- any experience of an astral realm as a separate experience. But does that mean Advaita relies on some static unity -- no -- the PRACTICE is the GOAL of advaita and it's an eternal process, again just like dependent origination. So it's not just being stuck in the formless realm -- it's the 3 in 1 process -- the bliss-being-consciousness resonating with formless awareness process. The process is by LISTENING not fixating on an object or realm, etc.

 

I don't think your that aware of what Advaita actually teaches. It does teach that all things are an emanation of a single cosmic and infinite consciousness that is real and true, everlasting and eternal.

 

It seems that you have lots of theories about things Drew with a creative application of interpretation happening here.

 

I am quite well versed in what Advaita teaches having trained in studying all the scriptures and great historical teachers in the tradition including Shankara, Jnaneshwar, Abhinavagupta (Trika) and many, many others, as well as all the different yogas, hatha, jhana, dhyana, bhakti, karma, yantra, mantra, etc. having spent my entire life in the tradition since I was born and living in a strict ashram following the curriculum with much discipline and enthusiasm for about 5 years with the day starting at 3 am almost every morning for me. It does not teach the same as Buddhist liberation. I ate, slept, read, spoke, practiced the Indian yogic tradition at the ashram and outside of the ashram for many years. No movies, TV, etc. I missed the popular culture of the mid 90's on into the 2000's because I was too busy being a yogi.

 

Your still thinking wordless awareness is the end all be all. But your not really having direct insight into dependent origination.

[voidisyinyang]

I'm very happy that you think you know what I think is wrong! haha. Again there is "teaching" and then there is PRACTICE. I agree that the Buddhist practice emphasizes conceptual analysis of experience but again as the Theravada practice deepens then the left-brain conceptual analysis aka "naming" or "labeling" or "noticing" has to be LEFT BEHIND. What remains is the insight vipassana as "wordless awareness."

 

Now maybe you haven't reached that stage of samadhi? You have lived in ashrams from an early age -- that is excellent -- but how much full-lotus have you done? Have you done the "achievement of cessation" through the 7 day fast yet?

 

Simple questions! I'm curious! And how about the secret tantra -- all this advaita vs. Buddhism, etc. is just repression of the female sex energy element, as Vivekananda states, spirituality is just sublimated sex energy. As "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality" states the highest alchemy is from the most shameful reality of sex energy! haha.

 

Yet you have a girlfriend? haha. The full-lotus "O at a Ds" (orgasms at a distance as psychic mutual climaxes) bypasses physical sex and has direct intake of female electrochemical jing with transmission of 3rd eye male electromagnetic chi/shen.

 

So that's my practice -- sit in full-lotus and as I heal others I heal myself! Great deal! Free energy exchange!

 

It's not based on the monastic left-brain arguments about male mental masturbation philosophy but sometimes I'll "stoop" to the white male spiritual level to give a little extra energy to those struggling to pretend they have some sort of left-brain conceptual analysis enlightenment.

 

Buddha Be Praised!

Edited October 13, 2009 by drewhempel

[nac]

There's no use complaining, I'm going to try it anyway. Here goes nothing...

 

All these traditions actually come from the Bushmen -- that's an anthropological truth! Do the Bushmen rely on "philosophical study"? Maybe -- they don't have a WRITTEN language though which is left-brain dominant. Their speaking language relies on more right brain musical sounds -- they have a TONAL language and the most sophisticated language on the planet! The training relies on MUSIC for effects -- and it's intuition yet very practical.

This is simply untrue, or rather, it's what James Randi calls 'woo'. It's similar to the claims that mandala meditation raises one's IQ. It doesn't.

 

When you enter into telepathy, telekinesis, precognition -- then words are no longer effective means. It's like extreme sports -- there's no TIME for talking -- body language and 3rd eye communication is the means.

Granting meditation causes supernatural powers, (which isn't true IMO) what do powers have to do with liberation anyway?

 

Is that "philosophy" -- originally the word mean the LOVE OF SOPHIA -- from Pythagoras who demanded his students practice 9 years of SILENCE!!

Pythagoras ran a cult based on mathematics that tried to suppress the knowledge of irrational numbers. Calling him a loony is an insult to loonies worldwide.

 

True meditation doesn't rely on repeating words in the head, etc. Does that mean it's not philosophy -- logical InFERENCE is the SOURCE of the I-thought -- through listening. It doesn't use words yet points at the truth as inference. So you repeat I-I-I at first with the philosophical quest to see the source of the I-thought.

 

Is this "Just" another concept -- or is it the source of the ego enabling the continued focus on the truth of reality -- instead of getting endless lost in astral realms, powers, WORDS, etc.

Okay, but all this depends on what your goal is. I mean, it's true you can attain nibbana by sweeping, but if you're saying that: avoiding true philosophical and scientific understanding is a good thing, it's helpful not to know things in the long run, or living like primitive tribes is conducive to reducing suffering, then I disagree with you. I'll bet even Taoist masters will disagree with you there. I once read a book by a Russian Taoist doctor who felt genuinely sorry for people living in primitive societies.

 

Again I rely in MUSIC which is neither left-brain logical inference nor right-brain visual-based philosophy. Yet logical inference is LISTENING which is also music -- and music is right-brain dominant. So music connects and transcends the difference of Advaita and Buddhism.

You rely on sound effects for attaining what, precisely? Buddhism isn't concerned with gaining supernatural powers at all.

Edited October 13, 2009 by nac

[JustARandomPanda]

True meditation doesn't rely on repeating words in the head, etc. Does that mean it's not philosophy -- logical InFERENCE is the SOURCE of the I-thought -- through listening. It doesn't use words yet points at the truth as inference. So you repeat I-I-I at first with the philosophical quest to see the source of the I-thought.

 

Well I can't claim to be a scholar of anything whatsoever. However...I always thought chanting, mantras, repeating vowel sounds (Om), repetitious, vibrating movement (shaking), etc was to do one thing - Swell/Develop whatever 'energy' or 'chi' was sustaining that chosen activity until a Yin/Yang phase shift took place - at which point it would kick over into...something else. If I were to repeat "I" endlessly I suspect it would eventually phase shift to silence since this is the base level my mind/vibrational rate is starting from (monkey mind chatter). Repeating it when one's body/mind is starting from a higher level would phase shift into experiencing higher awareness states.

 

It is an interesting question as to whether achieving 'nirvana' (which I gather seeing Dependent Origination means one has even if only briefly) can be done by a deaf, blind, mute - especially since they can't read nor hear texts or teachers. I can't help but keep thinking Drew may be on to something at least in this - drumbeats could reach the deaf, blind, mute when all else fails and thereby they attain liberation in this and all other lifetimes. And all without reading or hearing a word of the Dharma.

 

 

But of course I could be totally wrong about all of this.

 

*shrug*

[nac]

It is an interesting question as to whether achieving 'nirvana' (which I gather seeing Dependent Origination means one has even if only briefly) can be done by a deaf, blind, mute - especially since they can't read nor hear texts or teachers.

...or music for that matter. If someone is deaf, blind and mute at the same time, I don't think it's possible to attain very high in this lifetime. Otherwise there are always means...

[Vajrahridaya]

I'm very happy that you think you know what I think is wrong! haha. Again there is "teaching" and then there is PRACTICE. I agree that the Buddhist practice emphasizes conceptual analysis of experience but again as the Theravada practice deepens then the left-brain conceptual analysis aka "naming" or "labeling" or "noticing" has to be LEFT BEHIND. What remains is the insight vipassana as "wordless awareness." Now maybe you haven't reached that stage of samadhi?

 

I have and can at will. It's NOT the end all be all and is not the definition of enlightenment in Buddhism.

 

You have lived in ashrams from an early age -- that is excellent -- but how much full-lotus have you done? Have you done the "achievement of cessation" through the 7 day fast yet?

 

Drew. It's not possible to talk with you as you are too proud of your experience and push it like an enthusiastic child. I know your experience that you are talking about very well. Like I said, I have experienced all the stages of jhana and have experienced what is called nirvikalpa samadhi in Vedanta. You probably won't believe me because I don't agree with you that Advaita and Buddhism are the same because you think all things pivot on a platform of transcendent wordless awareness. But, great historical masters disagree with you on both sides, as Shankara didn't agree with the Buddhist view and no Buddhist with any experience and training agrees with the Advaita interpretation. So, maybe you would be humble enough to consider that you are possibly wrong? I have done plenty of full lotus, but I found that half lotus is just fine, plus I have a bad knee injury where the bottom part of my right leg pops out of place and I wasn't able to do the full lotus after that happened in 98', to absolutely no detriment to my meditative stability.

 

Simple questions! I'm curious! And how about the secret tantra -- all this advaita vs. Buddhism, etc. is just repression of the female sex energy element, as Vivekananda states, spirituality is just sublimated sex energy. As "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality" states the highest alchemy is from the most shameful reality of sex energy! haha.

 

No it's not, it's actually the difference in view and interpretation of spiritual experience and the entire cosmic process on a level beyond words. It has nothing to do with repression. Like I said, you are suffering from an over creative interpretation of things that show that you have no training in view. Which you need according to Buddhism. But, you don't as much in Advaita as they think enlightenment is an inherent oneness which is easier to ascertain as it's a view that is part of Samsara, your eternal habit. Your Advaita interpretation is incomplete though anyway Drew.

 

I've experienced all the different chakras, the rush up the spine to the crown through both sublimation and also with the karmayoga tantra practice with a partner.

 

Yet you have a girlfriend? haha. The full-lotus "O at a Ds" (orgasms at a distance as psychic mutual climaxes) bypasses physical sex and has direct intake of female electrochemical jing with transmission of 3rd eye male electromagnetic chi/shen.

 

I know about this and have experienced this psychic linkage. What does having a girlfriend have to do with anything? Pretty judgmental aren't you? A bit experientially dogmatic?

 

So that's my practice -- sit in full-lotus and as I heal others I heal myself! Great deal! Free energy exchange!

 

Sure, that's fine. But... it won't lead to liberation.

 

It's not based on the monastic left-brain arguments about male mental masturbation philosophy but sometimes I'll "stoop" to the white male spiritual level to give a little extra energy to those struggling to pretend they have some sort of left-brain conceptual analysis enlightenment.

 

What else are you supposed to do on a conversation board? Your idea that one side of the brain transcends the other is quite dualistic. Your view needs some training as NAC said. You should get some training. But... do what you want. I don't see any point in carrying on this conversation.

Buddha Be Praised!

 

Yes, and he should be studied under the guidance of some good living examples.

 

Take care Drew.

Edited October 13, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[JustARandomPanda]

...or music for that matter. If someone is deaf, blind and mute at the same time, I don't think it's possible to attain very high in this lifetime. Otherwise there are always means...

 

Perhaps...except for this...drumbeats can be felt by the body..and if the body is transformed (via enough drumbeats - a frequency that is felt) I would not be surprised to discover it could pull the mind in its wake.

 

Perhaps one could still get to Nirvana whether the road taken is 1) the Mind leads first or 2) the Body leads first? Eventually both are transformed and once that happens does it make a difference to the end result as to which went first?

[nac]

drewhempel: You're aware that tantric practice revolves around cultivating pure view, right? For example, I think American games (eg. DnD, WH40K or video games) can end up serving as tantra that reinforces, say, the Judeo-Christian worldview if they're well made and played with single-minded dedication. Different kinds of tantra can reinforce different views on the practitioner, so the view upon which the tantra is based is very important. In fact, this ultimate view is the whole point of tantric meditation as I understand it. Once you pick your highest tantric view, (based on your scientific understanding, philosophical preferences, etc) all other views are supposed to revolve around it, so you can automatically classify all your experiences according to the "level of tantra" they correspond to, so to speak, with respect to your chosen "highest view". What's the point of deluding yourself with tantra for tantra's sake?

 

You seem to be assuming the existence of this "wordless awareness" (inadvertently picking your view) then basing your understanding of every spiritual tradition upon this accidental presumption. This can't be right.... It feels like a ridiculous misunderstanding on my part.

Edited October 13, 2009 by nac

[Vajrahridaya]

Perhaps...except for this...drumbeats can be felt by the body..and if the body is transformed (via enough drumbeats - a frequency that is felt) I would not be surprised to discover it could pull the mind in its wake.

 

Perhaps one could still get to Nirvana whether the road taken is 1) the Mind leads first or 2) the Body leads first? Eventually both are transformed and once that happens does it make a difference to the end result as to which went first?

 

Yes actually that's what the rave scene was about, that the fast drum beats can transport ones mind into an altered state of consciousness, well that and the drugs one generally injests partaking of that scene.

 

In Buddhism it helps to have both, but it's really about the mind.

 

drewhempel: You're aware that tantra revolves around cultivating pure view, right? For example, I think American games (eg. DnD, WH40K or video games) can end up serving as tantra that reinforces, say, the Judeo-Christian worldview if they're well made and played with single-minded dedication. Different kinds of tantra can reinforce different views on the practitioner, so the view upon which the tantra is based is very important. In fact, this ultimate view is the whole point of tantric meditation as I understand it. Once you pick your highest tantric view, (based on your scientific understanding and philosophical preferences) all other views are supposed to revolve around it, so you can automatically classify all your experiences according to the "level of tantra" they correspond to, so to speak, with respect to your chosen "highest view". What's the point of deluding yourself with tantra for tantra's sake?

 

You seem to be assuming the existence of this "wordless awareness" (inadvertently picking your view) then basing your understanding of every spiritual tradition on this accidental presumption. This can't be right.... It feels like a ridiculous misunderstanding on my part.

 

Very diplomatically expressed of you.

Edited October 13, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[nac]

Perhaps...except for this...drumbeats can be felt by the body..and if the body is transformed (via enough drumbeats - a frequency that is felt) I would not be surprised to discover it could pull the mind in its wake.

 

Perhaps one could still get to Nirvana whether the road taken is 1) the Mind leads first or 2) the Body leads first? Eventually both are transformed and once that happens does it make a difference to the end result as to which went first?

If you can find a skillful technique to fully enlighten someone through nothing but vibration, they go ahead by all means...

Edited October 13, 2009 by nac

[JustARandomPanda]

 

Yes actually that's what the rave scene was about, that the fast drum beats can transport ones mind into an altered state of consciousness,

 

I didn't know that! I've never been to a rave so don't know what they're like.

 

If you can find the perfectly skillful technique to enlighten someone through vibration, they go ahead by all means...

 

Oh I don't claim to know anything. Was just posting if it could be possible. For some reason I keep thinking the Buddha would've found that skillful means but that's just conjecture on my part.

[nac]

Oh I don't claim to know anything. Was just posting if it could be possible. For some reason I keep thinking the Buddha would've found that skillful means but that's just conjecture on my part.

Okay, so what do you do after you soothe his or her mind with drum beats? We can't even know how he is feeling. Maybe such a technique exists somewhere, but I don't know of such means. Don't despair, you are a Buddha too. This is the reason we're all endowed with Buddha-nature. Perhaps by using advanced technology, we can overcome the need for communication by directly scanning the condition of his brain?

 

Very diplomatically expressed of you.

I meant every word what I said.

[JustARandomPanda]

Why do I feel like I've stumbled into an argument with Allen Bloom (The Closing of the American Mind author)?

 

There's the camp (Ala Allen Bloom) who say texts/teachers are ultimately important. (External sourced authority)

 

Then there's the camp that says You are what has to decide what is ultimately important. (Internal sourced authority)

 

I constantly feel a tug of war in myself between both camps. First one sounds right, then the other...and on and on it goes. Sometimes being a beginner sucks.

[voidisyinyang]

1998 -- that's a long time ago for a knee injury -- too bad about that! Ironically Chunyi Lin had a bad Basketball knee injury that needed surgery he didn't want to do. Yan Xin healed Chunyi Lin's bad knees -- 80% -- in one 7 hour mass chi-emitting lecture. AFter that Chunyi Lin did full-lotus despite his knee injuries -- and it healed his knees! Then Jim Nance met Chunyi Lin and Jim Nance had been a semi-pro basketball player but had to quite pro also because of a bad knee injury. So both Chunyi Lin and Jim Nance trained in full-lotus deep and deep but then a few years ago Jim Nance fell in the icy parking lot in Minnesota Winter and TORE the ligaments in his knee joints. He had to have surgery, despite being a qigong master! Was this related to his full-lotus practice? I don't know -- yet somehow there must be some deeper lesson for him because the level he was at he shouldn't have done so much knee damage just from slipping on the ice! I know some of the theravada monks in Thailand have to get ligament knee surgery but they don't practice full-lotus!

 

Anyway... yeah I'm judgmental! haha. The truth sucks -- the truth of the planet having only 20 years of freshwater left! haha. Is that judgmental? People don't want to hear the truth -- there's tons of denial. Yet the spiritual is just sublimated sex energy. So it's a harsh judgment I realize. Is it necessary on my part -- no not necessary -- Chunyi Lin is married. Certainly, as per Mantak Chia, the tantra is a beautiful reality. Wang Liping is married! Yet both sit in full-lotus 4 hours a day (or night) next to their wives -- isn't that their real tantric love experience instead of ejaculation? haha. I don't know but I speak from experience.

 

Thanks for sharing your practice background -- I'm envious of your ashram upraising -- very cool. My family thinks of me as having "Monk Madness" haha. Oh well.

 

I have and can at will. It's NOT the end all be all and is not the definition of enlightenment in Buddhism.

Drew. It's not possible to talk with you as you are too proud of your experience and push it like an enthusiastic child. I know your experience that you are talking about very well. Like I said, I have experienced all the stages of jhana and have experienced what is called nirvikalpa samadhi in Vedanta. You probably won't believe me because I don't agree with you that Advaita and Buddhism are the same because you think all things pivot on a platform of transcendent wordless awareness. But, great historical masters disagree with you on both sides, as Shankara didn't agree with the Buddhist view and no Buddhist with any experience and training agrees with the Advaita interpretation. So, maybe you would be humble enough to consider that you are possibly wrong? I have done plenty of full lotus, but I found that half lotus is just fine, plus I have a bad knee injury where the bottom part of my right leg pops out of place and I wasn't able to do the full lotus after that happened in 98', to absolutely no detriment to my meditative stability.

No it's not, it's actually the difference in view and interpretation of spiritual experience and the entire cosmic process on a level beyond words. It has nothing to do with repression. Like I said, you are suffering from an over creative interpretation of things that show that you have no training in view. Which you need according to Buddhism. But, you don't as much in Advaita as they think enlightenment is an inherent oneness which is easier to ascertain as it's a view that is part of Samsara, your eternal habit. Your Advaita interpretation is incomplete though anyway Drew.

 

I've experienced all the different chakras, the rush up the spine to the crown through both sublimation and also with the karmayoga tantra practice with a partner.

I know about this and have experienced this psychic linkage. What does having a girlfriend have to do with anything? Pretty judgmental aren't you? A bit experientially dogmatic?

Sure, that's fine. But... it won't lead to liberation.

What else are you supposed to do on a conversation board? Your idea that one side of the brain transcends the other is quite dualistic. Your view needs some training as NAC said. You should get some training. But... do what you want. I don't see any point in carrying on this conversation.

Yes, and he should be studied under the guidance of some good living examples.

 

Take care Drew.

[nac]

Why do I feel like I've stumbled into an argument with Allen Bloom (The Closing of the American Mind author)?

 

There's the camp (Ala Allen Bloom) who say texts/teachers are ultimately important. (External sourced authority)

 

Then there's the camp that says You are what has to decide what is ultimately important. (Internal sourced authority)

 

I constantly feel a tug of war in myself between both camps. First one sounds right, then the other...and on and on it goes. Sometimes being a beginner sucks.

When in doubt, remember that both camps are often wrong, dishonest or at least partial to their own experiences/agenda without consideration for that of the other party. I suggest studying by yourself for a while to make up your own mind. The Vajarayana tradition suggests browsing teachers for at least 10 years before picking one to study tantra with. If your tantra teacher is dishonest, it's very difficult to escape from his clutches.

 

People don't want to hear the truth -- there's tons of denial. Yet the spiritual is just sublimated sex energy. So it's a harsh judgment I realize.

I'm not averse to the idea, I just think this statement needs a LOT of qualification before it starts making sense.

Edited October 13, 2009 by nac

[Vajrahridaya]

 

I meant every word what I said.

 

LOL!

 

My family thinks of me as having "Monk Madness" haha. Oh well.

 

That was the beginning of my path. Many masters get married and have kids later after they have successfully gotten past the adolescent interpretation of the sexual experience through tantric sublimation.

 

But, whatever evolves you quicker Drew... take care.

[voidisyinyang]

NAC -- admit you haven't read ALLEN BLOOM -- "closing of the American Mind" -- that was a classic joke/reference on SereneBlue's part which I greatly appreciated. Cuts to the chase of the Platonic Forms reality that is really the basis for Western metaphysics.

 

As for finding a "teacher" -- it's about energy transmission, about love, etc. Sure diet and environment are crucial -- but I got the shakti transmissions from Chunyi Lin http://springforestqigong.com -- he has very RARE abilities -- sits in full-lotus 4 hours a day, fasts one day a week, eats a little veggie meal once per day the rest of the week. Does healing and teaching the rest of the time....

 

So anyone can get the REAL laser-love transmission from a teacher -- Chunyi Lin heals patients referred by the Mayo Clinic -- he's proving that qigong paranormal spiritual healing is real, against the fighting and screaming of mainstream "rationalist" science. A true miracle man and very disciplined -- a true lineage of Taoism as well but a Buddhist and even a Christian too! haha.

 

When real results happen then direct teacher supervision is needed -- this I did not have, because this is the West. Yet we can try and have fun about it regardless. It's exotic for us! haha.

 

As I read elsewhere qigong is considered a "magic cult" in China -- Taiwan especially. Well the term "qigong" was actually created by the Communists to make Taoism not a religion yet still practical. Yet with Falun Gong the masses used low-cost self-development that was a threat to the Chinese military regime. That has a LONG history in China -- meditation to be independent of the empire.

 

Real full-lotus meditation means independence from humanity -- the principles are impersonal. Oh well. Talk is cheap. I recommend sitting in full-lotus while reading, typing, etc. to keep the brain balanced at least.

[nac]

NAC -- admit you haven't read ALLEN BLOOM -- "closing of the American Mind" -- that was a classic joke/reference on SereneBlue's part which I greatly appreciated.

I haven't, I took the post on face value.

 

Real full-lotus meditation means independence from humanity -- the principles are impersonal. Oh well. Talk is cheap. I recommend sitting in full-lotus while reading, typing, etc. to keep the brain balanced at least.

Well, I don't pretend that it's a part of my spiritual practice, but I sit full lotus whenever I'm at home. I'm doing it right now. (minus the hands of course)

 

PS. Okay, let's see:

The Closing of the American Mind is a powerful critique, by a distinguished political philosopher, of the intellectual and moral confusions of our age. Allan Bloom, a professor of social thought at the University of Chicago and a noted translator of Plato and Rousseau, argues that the social and political crisis of twentiethcentury America is really an intellectual crisis. From the universities' lack of purpose to their students' lack of learning, from the jargon of liberation to the supplanting of reason by "creativity," Bloom shows how American democracy has unwittingly played host to vulgarized Continental ideas of nihilism and despair, of relativism disguised as tolerance. What we see today, according to Bloom, is young people who, lacking an understanding of the past and a vision of the future, live in an impoverished present. And our universities, entrusted with their education, no longer provide the knowledge of the great tradition of philosophy and literature that made students aware of the order of nature and of man's place within it. Higher education fails to arouse or to nurture the self-knowledge that has always been the basis for serious, humane learning.

A sweeping analysis of the intellectual currents of our century, The Closing of the American Mind is essential to an understanding of America's spiritual malaise.

Yeah, I've heard of this book alright. You Americans have no idea how good you have it. Besides, any country without a Bollywood is paradise IMHO.

Edited October 13, 2009 by nac

[Sunya]

You Americans have no idea how good you have it. Besides, any country without a Bollywood is paradise IMHO.