Zhan Zhuang Standing information

[Gerard]

Try this method instead:

 

http://yiquan.chinamartialarts.net/yu.htm

 

 

 

Zhan Zhuang (embracing the tree) Qigong. Do it for 30 yrs and they call you Magneto.

 

A well-known IMA artist based in the UK has met that teacher and oh boy he wrote in his book that when he was walking up the stairs the place was shaking as if an elephant was walking instead.

[Smile]

Zhan Zhuang (embracing the tree) Qigong. Do it for 30 yrs and they call you Magneto.

Yes, Zhan Zhuang in addition with emptiness meditation can make you a superman. I hear if you practice standing 5 hours a day, opening of all your channels will happen within a month, plus a complete healing of your body. You want abilities? This a very simple exercise that will lead you there.

[gendao]

Yes, Zhan Zhuang in addition with emptiness meditation can make you a superman. I hear if you practice standing 5 hours a day, opening of all your channels will happen within a month, plus a complete healing of your body. You want abilities? This a very simple exercise that will lead you there.

Interesting, wow. Apparently, it worked for Kan and enabled him to recover from paralysis and opened all his channels:

Kan started on his path around the age of twenty. He had been a rugby player on the All Japan team when he suffered an injury that left him paralyzed from the waist down. Doctors told him he would never walk again and as he lay in the hospital adjusting to the idea of life as a paraplegic, a stranger entered his room and showed him a chi gong posture known as "holding the ball." The stranger disappeared immediately afterward and when asked about him the hospital told Kan that they had no idea who he was.

 

Kan held the posture every day as he lie there watching television. After a few weeks, he noticed that he could move his toes ever so slightly. After a few more weeks, he could wiggle them freely. After a few months his spinal cord had nearly repaired itself and eventually he could walk. Life had returned to normal for him and it was as if the accident had never happened.

 

Inspired by his results, Kan pursued formal chi gong training and after twenty years, attained a master level of competency.

 

Kan met Max Christensen in 2005 at a seminar in Japan. Max immediately noticed that Kan had a special quality to his spirit, and that his energy channels were naturally open.

If that's not a testimonial to "holding the ball," I don't know what is!

 

How does zhan zhuang compare to seated or sitting (half-lotus) meditation though - in terms of restoring complete health and opening channels?

 

And can 5 hrs/day for a month be redistributed to say, 1 hr/day for 5 months? The total still being 150 hrs?

[thelerner]

Going back a few years, Sean Denty who studied under Verdesi, said there was minimum requirement of 3 (or was it 4) hours of meditation a day under the system. I'd expect above average, truly amazing results from any system done intensely 3 hours a day.

 

 

Michael

[Smile]

How does zhan zhuang compare to seated or sitting (half-lotus) meditation though - in terms of restoring complete health and opening channels?

Zhan Zhuang works so much faster... it's like comparing going from NY to LA by car or by plane. Also because of this, all the "clearing"/healing symptoms that come with it will be more severe. So I would say sitted meditation has a more gentle approach with less side effects and is more comfortable.

 

And can 5 hrs/day for a month be redistributed to say, 1 hr/day for 5 months? The total still being 150 hrs?

No, it doesn't work this way. Obviously, very few people can start with 5 hours a day right from day one, but you can start from 20 minutes a day and add 5 minutes every day till you reach 5 hour mark. And you can't split the time. It's 5 hours from start to finish.

 

On another note, you can still do 1-2 hours a day and receive great benefit from the practice - it just takes longer and will be less intense will less side effects on your mind and body. So for most people it's the best option.

I've sent you a PM.

Max

[Smile]

Forgot to add.

Standing in nature next to an old tree will multiply the effect of the standing practice.

And sorry for sidetracking this thread, guys.

[r.w.smith]

So zhan zhuang builds Qi ?

[Smile]

Yes, ZZ transforms jing into qi. It's not an easy practice though so most people will probably give up to something easier like regular sitting meditation.

The saying "Everyone wants to go to Heaven, but no one wants to die" is perfect for ZZ.

[enouch]

Yes, ZZ transforms jing into qi. It's not an easy practice though so most people will probably give up to something easier like regular sitting meditation.

The saying "Everyone wants to go to Heaven, but no one wants to die" is perfect for ZZ.

 

 

 

I always practice embracing the tree! You can truly feel the qi,it's in almost all of my qi gung courses except the spring forest course.I wonder why Chunny didn't include it in his course? Maybe because its used more by martial artists.I also combine it with what's[what we know] known of Yan Xin's technique.

[mantis]

Yes, ZZ transforms jing into qi. It's not an easy practice though so most people will probably give up to something easier like regular sitting meditation.

The saying "Everyone wants to go to Heaven, but no one wants to die" is perfect for ZZ.

 

Can you show me a picture of the posture or a guide on how to perform it correctly? There seems to be a few nuances here and there that differ when you learn it from different people.

[bindo]

I always practice embracing the tree! You can truly feel the qi,it's in almost all of my qi gung courses except the spring forest course.I wonder why Chunny didn't include it in his course? Maybe because its used more by martial artists.I also combine it with what's[what we know] known of Yan Xin's technique.

I've wondered why SFQ hasn't included standing forms too. Maybe because the drop out rate would be too high.

[Pietro]

Interesting, wow. Apparently, it worked for Kan and enabled him to recover from paralysis and opened all his channels:If that's not a testimonial to "holding the ball," I don't know what is!

 

How does zhan zhuang compare to seated or sitting (half-lotus) meditation though - in terms of restoring complete health and opening channels?

 

And can 5 hrs/day for a month be redistributed to say, 1 hr/day for 5 months? The total still being 150 hrs?

what really surprises me is that he had this results while looking at tv.

With Bruce a big part of the work in ZZ is that your mind is not supposed to be wondering, and you shouldn't be seeing movies, in or out of your mind.

 

Regarding the time in ZZ, Bruce practiced for 6 hours for a period of his life. But now he suggests different schedules depending on how old a person is, and what are its aim. Generally 3 hours is considered about the max that is still convenient.

 

The minimum (which most people can't do from day one, so that is already an aim) is 20 minutes a day. When you can do 20 minutes a day he will suggest to only do 70% of the total time that you can do (below 20 minutes you can stretch that slightly over 70%). Also he says that ZZ is right for people who are younger. People over 40 or even 60 should not stand too long. Please don't PM me asking for the right timetable for you, I said all I knew, the rest is in the books.

 

Oh, yes, Bruce also explains that there are 200 postures that will give you different results, but my understanding is that no one outside of China knows or teaches them. Bruce himself does not teach them because, he says, "I would need 1 month a year for 9 years to be able to teach them properly". So it looks like ZZ under this light was a complete system.

[Smile]

Nice post, Pietro.

I wouldn't recommend doing more then a basic "hands down on the sides" standing practice at the begining until they can stand at least 2-3 hours with no problem.

 

Also like Pietro said, it's supposed to be a standing meditation practice, so it should be treated like one.

 

Pictures wouldn't do it any good, but here is the basic description:

Imagine small balloons under your two armpits and under you butt so you can slightly sit on it. Bend your knees but not too much. The butt or your stomach shouldn't stick out. The head should be "floating" on top of your body, or you can imagine a string tied to the top of your head pulling you up.

Hands on the sides facing the body, palms open with fingers open not close nor far between each other. Everything is relaxed. Look in front of yourself unfocused.

[Pero]

I'd expect above average, truly amazing results from any system done intensely 3 hours a day.

Michael

 

I think something like that too.

[Pietro]

I wouldn't recommend doing more then a basic "hands down on the sides" standing practice at the begining until they can stand at least 2-3 hours with no problem.

agreed.

 

Pictures wouldn't do it any good, but here is the basic description:

Imagine small balloons under your two armpits and under you butt so you can slightly sit on it. Bend your knees but not too much. The butt or your stomach shouldn't stick out. The head should be "floating" on top of your body, or you can imagine a string tied to the top of your head pulling you up.

Hands on the sides facing the body, palms open with fingers open not close nor far between each other. Everything is relaxed. Look in front of yourself unfocused.

 

I would stick with the idea of not having pictures, and learn instead hot to not have the joints collapse. I was quite lucky that during the exam in front of Bruce one of the instructor said that my right knee was closed just loud enough that I could hear it, and correct myself.

Nothing beats direct feedback, and memory of how it feels when it is working.

 

I would also add respect to what Max said: keep your eyes closed until you can keep them open and neutral. Do NOT open them for some seconds and then close them for some seconds...

 

And, you know, I still have problems to even stand while having my long relaxed breath.

Let's say I am a late bloomer ;-)

[soundhunter]

Forgot to add.

Standing in nature next to an old tree will multiply the effect of the standing practice.

And sorry for sidetracking this thread, guys.

 

I'm grateful that you did, as a busy mom without access to courses, but plenty of access to old trees. Thank you!

[gendao]

No, it doesn't work this way. Obviously, very few people can start with 5 hours a day right from day one, but you can start from 20 minutes a day and add 5 minutes every day till you reach 5 hour mark. And you can't split the time. It's 5 hours from start to finish.

 

On another note, you can still do 1-2 hours a day and receive great benefit from the practice - it just takes longer and will be less intense will less side effects on your mind and body. So for most people it's the best option.

I've sent you a PM.

Max

Thanks a lot Max!

Just curious, where did you get the 5 hrs/day for a month figure from? And do you know anyone who actually did that - and attained the promised results of extraordinary health and some abilities?

 

I agree too, you'd have to slowly work up to 5 hrs. I don't think I could even do that just once right now, much less 30 days in a row! Although I think I can crossover my sitting meditation skills to it pretty easily.

 

Pietro - I think the TV could distract Kan's mind and get it out of the way initially...although later on it could become more distracting itself.

 

Well, I'm tempted to add this to my routine now, given the results that Max has touted and Kan directly experienced. But can I squeeze yet another hour of meditation in per day???

[mantis]

Well I tried the embracing the tree posture and I held it for 5 minutes, although I'm sure I could do more. Still, I can see why it'd become challenging

 

The heat buildup is incredible, this will become useful as it's getting cold out.

[Smile]

Here is what a friend said about ZZ:

"It is said in China that one should stand at least for an hour to get real benefits. I suspect that the Master has downgraded this for the European audience (he says 20 mins or so to get a benefit), as WE don't like that much hard work. Chinese philosophy also tends to "no pain, no gain".

Certainly, it's greatest benefits are at or after an hour. Some people stand for 3, 5 or even 8 hours at a time (as was the case of pupils of a well known Chinese Master - sorry I don't have further details on this).

 

I was lucky enough to speak to an English lad who went to China to learn Kung Fu. He was standing mostly 3 hours and sometimes 5 hours. It did a lot for his health - which was crap before he went.

 

Mind you, he nearly didn't make it past day one of the 5 day break in period. The 5 day regime was to stand at least 5 hours per day (minimum 1 hour at a time) for 5 consecutive days. It is said that within the 5 days there will be a clearing / breakthrough of blockages in channels - it is the blockages that cause the pain (according to Chinese Medical philosophy).

 

He had a breakthrough day 2 and continued standing for 3 hours as it felt so good. Thereafter, he was told, he only had to stand 1 hour a day to keep channels open.

 

My view is that one might also start slow, work up to 20 minutes or more and then go for the 5 days. These are hard, so just grit your teeth."

[Pietro]

Here is what a friend said about ZZ:

"It is said in China that one should stand at least for an hour to get real benefits. I suspect that the Master has downgraded this for the European audience (he says 20 mins or so to get a benefit), as WE don't like that much hard work. Chinese philosophy also tends to "no pain, no gain".

Certainly, it's greatest benefits are at or after an hour. Some people stand for 3, 5 or even 8 hours at a time (as was the case of pupils of a well known Chinese Master - sorry I don't have further details on this).

 

I was lucky enough to speak to an English lad who went to China to learn Kung Fu. He was standing mostly 3 hours and sometimes 5 hours. It did a lot for his health - which was crap before he went.

 

Mind you, he nearly didn't make it past day one of the 5 day break in period. The 5 day regime was to stand at least 5 hours per day (minimum 1 hour at a time) for 5 consecutive days. It is said that within the 5 days there will be a clearing / breakthrough of blockages in channels - it is the blockages that cause the pain (according to Chinese Medical philosophy).

 

He had a breakthrough day 2 and continued standing for 3 hours as it felt so good. Thereafter, he was told, he only had to stand 1 hour a day to keep channels open.

 

My view is that one might also start slow, work up to 20 minutes or more and then go for the 5 days. These are hard, so just grit your teeth."

 

Hi Max,

you know I am against those hard practices that break the 70% rule.

You might reach that objective, but at what cost on your nervous system?

But I like the idea of building up the practice in separate moments during the day.

I might incorporate that.

 

 

Also, mantis, you definitly should stand in the wu wei postire with your hands by your side, finger pointing down, palm facing back, and thumbs touching the side of the body unitl you can stand with no problem for at least 20 minutes. Even the student Max is refering about was closely supervised.

 

I wonder if the fact of having some new moderators means that we might be able to get some sanity by being able to ask to get, for example, this thread disentangled. Dividing the ZZ part from the DV part. Just wondering.

[idquest]

Would you say that working with a qi ball while standing has about the same benefits that standing still?

 

I do a qikung form that starts with standing still with a slight variation on arms/hands position. But then there is some movements involving working with qi balls and emitting / absorbing qi to/from palms and fingers to a body. Very subtle movements but this is not actually standing still. I have been wondering if that would qualify as just still standing.

[sheng zhen]

I wonder if the fact of having some new moderators means that we might be able to get some sanity by being able to ask to get, for example, this thread disentangled. Dividing the ZZ part from the DV part. Just wondering.

I would say this is part of the charm. I hope taobums will not become over-moderated.

 

Regarding the 70% rule I think there is a time for breakthrough and a time for rest. During the time for breakthrough one should absolutely break the 70% rule. Otherwise the development will be veeeery sloooow. But if we try to break through when the body is not ready for it, it will become unhealthy and unbalanced, and the development will stop completely.

 

I usually stand within the 70% rule. Which makes my sessions anywhere between 10 minutes to 1 hour. But sometimes I'm ready to break my limits and then I stand as long as I can take.

[Prince...]

Hi Max,

you know I am against those hard practices that break the 70% rule.

You might reach that objective, but at what cost on your nervous system?

But I like the idea of building up the practice in separate moments during the day.

I might incorporate that.

 

Yeah...don't want to mess up your nervous system. My friend does Yiquan as a part of his Tai Chi and since he was teaching me Tai Chi before I moved-- I was doing Yiquan as part of my practice. Somebody here on TTB challenged me to do 40 minutes when I had worked my way up to 15 minutes from 8 (1 min/posture) last summer. I felt great after the first 2 days, but I started feeling weird in a way that I can't describe. I had some powerful sitting meditation sessions for a few days during that time.

 

Hahaha...I stopped doing Yiquan after that. I'm trying to make myself resume it as I've realized my current Tai Chi school is not teaching any type of ZZ. I had a guy drill me a few weeks ago on correcting my form where I was always taught that you learn to make corrections by doing ZZ. I just smiled and nodded. We were told to stand for at least 30 minutes before we practice the form--but nobody went into detail about what they meant by "standing."

 

I don't want to make it sound like the Yang Family does not teach ZZ, but I'm starting to wonder if it's one of those things they expect you to figure out on your own.

 

Anyway, interesting thread this has turned into! I'm gonna push myself to start back doing ZZ and combine it with my KAP practice! 5 hours though? I can find 5 hours of my day to do ZZ, but not a 5 hour block of time... too much studying to do during the week!

Edited October 6, 2009 by Prince...

[宁]

Going back a few years, Sean Denty who studied under Verdesi, said there was minimum requirement of 3 (or was it 4) hours of meditation a day under the system. I'd expect above average, truly amazing results from any system done intensely 3 hours a day.

Michael

 

I agree!

At the same time practicing that amount of time or more daily IS necessary, but INSUFFICIENT.

You need a change of heart, and a change of mind.

And understanding... you don't find that at every street's corner.

 

Peace

 

L1

 

PS: With power comes responsability, and fiew of us are ready to grow up at a faster pace.

[ramus]

I agree!

At the same time practicing that amount of time or more daily IS necessary, but INSUFFICIENT.

You need a change of heart, and a change of mind.

And understanding... you don't find that at every street's corner.

 

Peace

 

L1

 

PS: With power comes responsability, and fiew of us are ready to grow up at a faster pace.

 

With the power does not turn up the responsibility, with knowledge comes responsibility.

The word meditation combined with the practices creates the false impression that they are all the same, but there are hundreds of diverse practices and create different results, from the outside you always see someone with eyes closed, but ....