Alcohol since we can remember

[z00se]

Since the early ages man has been drinking wine, smoking weeds or eating mushrooms along with heaps of other things that intoxicate us for some pleasurable feeling.

I've been cultivating for quite a while and i feel within myself that my training and meditating paths are knocked backwards by binge drinking or even cigarettes (even though my tai ji master smokes plenty of them - and also does Bruce Lee's old man smoke a pipe!).

 

But i equally know that as i can build up my health and my balance in my training that i still have the memories of great and unforgettable nights under the influence. Without those magical moments at times i feel some sparkle is lost from my life. I read somewhere that alcohol makes the ugly guy a stud, the weedy bloke strong, the nervous guy confident and the nerdy guy.... well maybe he's still nerdy but he feels cool!

 

I am interested as to what other people think about drinking and partying while practicing taoist disciplines. Especially those who have been practicing for a long time. Do you ever drink/smoke? how often? Do you ever get totally wasted? and how often?

 

I think i'm still young just as i've just turned 27 and i wonder if that has anything to do with it. My partying desire has slowly started to reduce though since it now takes me longer to recover than when i was 18 and maybe now due to my better understanding and feeling of my body i am aware of what it is doing to me.

 

I know the true answer is 'balance' but i'm more interested in what peoples real life experiences are. Do the 'healers' just kick back on a friday night after a week of healing sessions with an hr of inner smile to or do u kick back with some mates or in front of the tv with a few brews?

[Aetherous]

Getting wasted is dumb. It's enjoyable to have a couple of beers with friends.

[Marblehead]

Well, I'm sure y'all know how I feel about this.

 

I stopped dringing when I was 22 years old. (Started when I was 15.)

 

I still drink one glass of low alcohol red wine about once a week.

 

I still smoke (legal tobacco) and I am ashamed of that but that's the way it will be until I get the balls to quit.

 

Peace & Love!

[松永道]

Drugs are medicines, medicines are drugs.

 

Drugs have existed as long as dysfunction has existed. But some medicines treat symptoms, others cure the disease. In most cases, alcohol just treats the symptoms. Alcohol is a social stimulant among other things. In TCM it is seen as heating and invigorating blood and qi. Basically, it warms and relaxes the body/mind. Some people would do good to drink a bit to heat & loosen things up. Too bad most people don't study the experience, the way perceptive shifts and end up using alcohol as a gateway to this state rather than a key to open a new aspect of being. The key is unnecessary once the lock is opened.

 

The same can be said for other drugs. Open the door and keep going, no need to make a habit of the doorway.

 

And, of course, drugs aren't the only way to open doors of perception or treat disease. Just one way. And in my opinion, not even the best way. Why pay for the keys (with your health and cash) when you can learn to pick the locks (through cultivation)?

 

Drugs are medicines, medicines are drugs, a healthy person needs neither.

 

But, only a sad-sage would pursue health at the cost of really living!

[RobB]

Too bad most people don't study the experience, the way perceptive shifts and end up using alcohol as a gateway to this state rather than a key to open a new aspect of being. The key is unnecessary once the lock is opened.

 

Hi,

 

Can you elaborate on this? How would you diferentiate further between the gateway and the key?

 

Cheers

 

Rob

[Wayfarer64]

Ones' circumstances- sober or not need ...to be dealt with and experienced... state of mind means little to the spirit...

 

But a peaceful mind works best in any case... so if booze mellows ya out - thats cool too!-(hic)-

[Owledge]

I still smoke (legal tobacco) and I am ashamed of that but that's the way it will be until I get the balls to quit.

READ-THIS-BOOK!:

"Allen Carr's Easy Way To Stop Smoking"

 

I pray that more people read 'enlightenment literature', and here it happens due to the practical theme of the book. It gives you a deeper understanding of you and the world, and smoking is just one thing, but every smoker should read this book.

Very short summary: Quitting smoking is no struggle! You don't have to fight anything, not even yourself, and you definitely don't have to live without a pleasure - to the contrary. You just have to quit. And when you eliminate your illusions, then it'll happen before you know it.

 

Supplement: I'll open a new thread about this book, because I - again - realized how sometimes just a hint of the existence of something can be helpful and many people simply haven't heard of it yet.

Edited October 9, 2009 by Hardyg

[Wayfarer64]

READ-THIS-BOOK!:

"Allen Carr's Easy Way To Stop Smoking"

 

I pray that more people read 'enlightenment literature', and here it happens due to the practical theme of the book. It gives you a deeper understanding of you and the world, and smoking is just one thing, but every smoker should read this book.

Very short summary: Quitting smoking is no struggle! You don't have to fight anything, not even yourself, and you definitely don't have to live without a pleasure - to the contrary. You just have to quit. And when you eliminate your illusions, then it'll happen before you know it.

 

 

Many Thanks for this! _I'm getting a copy for my flat-mate- he needs it!-

 

love to all-Pat

[Marblehead]

READ-THIS-BOOK!:

"Allen Carr's Easy Way To Stop Smoking"

 

I pray that more people read 'enlightenment literature', and here it happens due to the practical theme of the book. It gives you a deeper understanding of you and the world, and smoking is just one thing, but every smoker should read this book.

Very short summary: Quitting smoking is no struggle! You don't have to fight anything, not even yourself, and you definitely don't have to live without a pleasure - to the contrary. You just have to quit. And when you eliminate your illusions, then it'll happen before you know it.

 

Thanks for sharing that. I just might get the book.

 

Peace & Love!

[Vajrahridaya]

Getting wasted is dumb. It's enjoyable to have a couple of beers with friends.

 

Agreed! But, when you are cultivating. You will learn from any circumstance. But banging your head against the same wall will only make your head bleed.

 

[Owledge]

But banging your head against the same wall will only make your head bleed.

A propos ... That metaphor reminds me of a comment from the book. A 'confirmed smoker' is like someone who bangs his head against the wall in order to frequently enjoy the good feeling of stopping it for a while. Or wearing shoes that are too tight and not wanting to miss the pleasure of taking them off in the evening.

[Aetherous]

Vajrahridaya,

 

Did you mean that you can't have any beers while cultivating?

 

I have found that 1 is perfectly fine, and 2 is pushing it...

[Vajrahridaya]

A propos ... That metaphor reminds me of a comment from the book. A 'confirmed smoker' is like someone who bangs his head against the wall in order to frequently enjoy the good feeling of stopping it for a while. Or wearing shoes that are too tight and not wanting to miss the pleasure of taking them off in the evening.

 

LOL! Looove your avatar!!

 

Vajrahridaya,

 

Did you mean that you can't have any beers while cultivating?

 

I have found that 1 is perfectly fine, and 2 is pushing it...

 

No, no... getting wasted! In Dzogchen we frequently partake in wine or good beer after a ceremony. But... not enough to get one sloshed. Just a little to loosen the Rigpa.

[Tao99]

In (my) Taoist practice its contrary to the way to depend on some drug or intoxicant to achieve spiritual loosening or anything else. In fact it's the exact opposite of the practice goal which is to depend on nothing, and need nothing, but oneself and one's inner abilities. This way it's always available and can never be taken away. You can thus be stranded alone with no money, no booze, no cigs, no nothing in a homeless shelter, and you still have everything you need to achieve your meditative objectives. No crutches.

[King Kabalabhati]

I dont drink nor smoke, but I see it a bit black&white to say that if someone is using alcohol moderately to "loosen up" that they would NEED it as a crutch.. If it's available you can do it every now and then but should be brutally honest to whether the amounts and frequency are excessive or not and what the level of dependency is.

[Tao99]

I dont drink nor smoke, but I see it a bit black&white to say that if someone is using alcohol moderately to "loosen up" that they would NEED it as a crutch.. If it's available you can do it every now and then but should be brutally honest to whether the amounts and frequency are excessive or not and what the level of dependency is.

 

True that. Well said.

[Vajrahridaya]

In (my) Taoist practice its contrary to the way to depend on some drug or intoxicant to achieve spiritual loosening or anything else.

 

It's true... to depend is against Dzogchen practice as well. But, when something is blessed during a practice and partaken of, it's different. It's integrating.

[Marblehead]

In (my) Taoist practice its contrary to the way to depend on some drug or intoxicant to achieve spiritual loosening or anything else. In fact it's the exact opposite of the practice goal which is to depend on nothing, and need nothing, but oneself and one's inner abilities. This way it's always available and can never be taken away. You can thus be stranded alone with no money, no booze, no cigs, no nothing in a homeless shelter, and you still have everything you need to achieve your meditative objectives. No crutches.

 

Excellent thoughts!

 

Peace & Love!

[Vajrahridaya]

This way it's always available and can never be taken away. You can thus be stranded alone with no money, no booze, no cigs, no nothing in a homeless shelter, and you still have everything you need to achieve your meditative objectives. No crutches.

 

After many years of practice, I did find myself in this exact predicament for a short time. I did experience a sense of peace and that it was just another process, no better or worse than any other, just... manifestation without solid designation.

[shontonga]

Have enjoyed reading this thread

 

Not a right or wrong

 

... i don't think

 

just self knowing

 

you already said you see the effects of it

 

you know your reaction

 

lol, but we all need to be reminded about how good

 

or how bad we perceive something to be at times

 

sometimes it changes after all

 

watch other things too(besides tobacco and alcohol)

 

example~ if im in the practice of meditating

 

there is no way i can handle eating garlic...i die

 

i love garlic bread No way i could "binge" on it, lol

 

for some of my practices i Do use tobacco and alcohol

 

respectfully

 

knowing myself, tobacco has a strong calling for me

 

and if i work with it

 

i'll want it for the next week or so(i don't use it if there is a craving)

 

same with alcohol

 

i feel it in the body for three days to a week after i use it

 

and i will rarely have more than a mouthful or two

 

(i never use it if there is a craving for it either)

 

comes down to how you feel

 

bowing before a porcelain thrown is humbling

 

and if it teaches you lessons you enjoy

 

None other than you can say right or wrong

 

Just enjoy and be smart (don't drive drunk sort of smart)

 

Whitness yourself

 

as you partake and see how you feel

 

 

Before you do what you do

 

While you do

 

The night/day after you do

 

three days later

 

a week

 

then think about it

 

and get back to us dude, because we are no wiser than you on such matters!!!

 

Stay well!

Shon

 

 

 

Personally i think 松永道 has said it all, it's a post worth reading and rereading)

 

 

 

 

sorry so long a note

but easier to read it spread out like this

i'll stop typing now, bye!!!

Sweet dreams!

 

 

*edited for spelling and missed words

Edited October 10, 2009 by shontonga

[Nanashi]

Edited October 10, 2009 by Nanashi

[King Kabalabhati]

I love that story. I never want to overlook a drunkard's state of happiness as opposed to a yogi's state of happiness, what do I really know?

[Owledge]

knowing myself, tobacco has a strong calling for me

 

and if i work with it

 

i'll want it for the next week or so(i don't use it if there is a craving)

Nobody uses tobacco when there is no craving. There has to be a craving to make someone inhale poisonous fumes.

Edited October 10, 2009 by Hardyg

[longrhythm]

Basically, it warms and relaxes the body/mind. Some people would do good to drink a bit to heat & loosen things up. Too bad most people don't study the experience, the way perceptive shifts and end up using alcohol as a gateway to this state rather than a key to open a new aspect of being. The key is unnecessary once the lock is opened.

 

 

Awesome point. I've always kind of looked at it this way. And in that way alcohol can be a crutch. And crutches are good, as long as you get off of them. I relate to you this way- If I unlock a new door, but I haven't gone through it yet, and I'm really comfortable in the room I've been in, then I'll need the key for a while. I need to keep going through that door over and over and coming back to the room I've been in, back to what's familiar, until going through that door becomes familiar. Once that happens. Maybe I'll feel okay about leaving the door unlocked, tossing the key, and then next comes getting comfortable with the new room. No need to aim for instantaneous adjustment, gradual is cool too.

 

So my vote- hooray for crutches!

 

 

Drugs are medicines, medicines are drugs.

 

Drugs have existed as long as dysfunction has existed. But some medicines treat symptoms, others cure the disease. In most cases, alcohol just treats the symptoms. Alcohol is a social stimulant among other things. In TCM it is seen as heating and invigorating blood and qi. Basically, it warms and relaxes the body/mind. Some people would do good to drink a bit to heat & loosen things up. Too bad most people don't study the experience, the way perceptive shifts and end up using alcohol as a gateway to this state rather than a key to open a new aspect of being. The key is unnecessary once the lock is opened.

 

The same can be said for other drugs. Open the door and keep going, no need to make a habit of the doorway.

 

And, of course, drugs aren't the only way to open doors of perception or treat disease. Just one way. And in my opinion, not even the best way. Why pay for the keys (with your health and cash) when you can learn to pick the locks (through cultivation)?

 

Drugs are medicines, medicines are drugs, a healthy person needs neither.

 

But, only a sad-sage would pursue health at the cost of really living!

[Vajrahridaya]

Nobody used tobacco when there is no craving. There has to be a craving to make someone inhale poisonous fumes.

 

Actually a small amount of tobacco is good for a person and native Americans used it infrequently in a relaxed and non-craving manor.

 

I think it's quite rare for a person to use tobacco in a medicinal manor though, so for the most part, you are right. I'm just throwing out a different perspective, a rare one, but a true one.