NeiChuan Posted November 28, 2009 Drugs are medicines, medicines are drugs. Drugs have existed as long as dysfunction has existed. But some medicines treat symptoms, others cure the disease. In most cases, alcohol just treats the symptoms. Alcohol is a social stimulant among other things. In TCM it is seen as heating and invigorating blood and qi. Basically, it warms and relaxes the body/mind. Some people would do good to drink a bit to heat & loosen things up. Too bad most people don't study the experience, the way perceptive shifts and end up using alcohol as a gateway to this state rather than a key to open a new aspect of being. The key is unnecessary once the lock is opened. The same can be said for other drugs. Open the door and keep going, no need to make a habit of the doorway. And, of course, drugs aren't the only way to open doors of perception or treat disease. Just one way. And in my opinion, not even the best way. Why pay for the keys (with your health and cash) when you can learn to pick the locks (through cultivation)? Drugs are medicines, medicines are drugs, a healthy person needs neither. But, only a sad-sage would pursue health at the cost of really living! Really well put. Sorry if im late in the conversation just thought it needed a bit of acknowledgment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zazaza Posted November 28, 2009 (edited) I think that once one has purified himself to the point of having developed a very strong bliss that he no longer thinks of taking drugs to feel blissfull, because he is already in bliss.. and probably a more blissfull kind of bliss that drugs can produce. What is your opinion on this? -------------------------------- I have tried the psychedelic route. I got the same experience with psychedelics as with most other drugs, including alcohol (paradoxically). THe drugs made me feel more enlightened during the trip and for a few days afterwards, then the afterglow faded too. Psychedelics had the longest afterglow as well as the strongest effect. During these drug experiences I felt like the focus of my mind had become very much strenghtened, but this effect was temporary. Because drugs do not help me to strengthen my focus of mind, I no longer use drugs. (At least for the past year, and maybe forever. Who knows.) Edited November 28, 2009 by zazaza Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fiveelementtao Posted November 28, 2009 Instead of engaging the question directly, I propose a test. Take a good look at how you feel now if you drink and/or use recreational drugs ( including "spiritual" hallucinogens). HONESTLY journal how you feel physically, mentally and emotionally. Then stop drinking and using drugs for one year and continue your cultivation. and then journal how you feel after the year is over. You will find out a few things. 1) whether or not you are addicted. (because if you can't stop for a year...) 2) whether these chemicals actually help your cultivation 3) whether or not you are emotionally stunting your growth with these chemicals We could go back and forth about free will and whether or not it is ok to use them or not. But if you can't stop for a year... Then these other questions are smokescreens to keep you using and drinking. Also if one is truly interested in "enlightnement" then one year to experiment with chemical free cultivation is well worth it. But if one keeps using and only muses on whether or not it is helpful to quit... IMO it is empty rationalization... That's my .02 personally, I have never been in the presence of someone using alcohol or drugs without sensing that their hun souls were being diminished and their po souls taking over their consciousness. I have never felt anyone under the influence of drugs and alcohol operating from their spirit... So try going for a year clean and then tell me if your experience is different than mine... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Owledge Posted November 28, 2009 (edited) @zazaza Apparently, addictive substances - at least some like nicotine - don't work ONLY through dopamine, otherwise there could be many replacement substances. So the bliss of spiritual practice probably doesn't help, but the enlightenment part of it might help. That's the method used in Carr's book, while the replacement method very often fails. Very recently I have experienced another very obvious example of how powerfully nicotine can take away one's objectivity and courage. @5et The problem is that your suggestion is not practical. Addicts will lie to themselves. Edited November 28, 2009 by Hardyg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
