Why do you believe in qi?

[Marblehead]

Without life there would be no Chi.

 

Hehehe. I would argue that point but I stopped arguing on this forum.

 

Peace & Love!

[SeriesOfTubes]

to believe is to not know.

[Baguakid]

There is a simple method to satisfy this question.

 

Find an honest, sincere, Qigong Master and spend a little time with him/her. This question will be answered. And a whole new set will appear.

[Taomeow]

When I first REALLY felt powerful qi from a qigong healer, it was an eye-opening experience to discover that it was SIMPLY AS THE ANCIENT CHINESE HAD DESCRIBED IT. It's not metaphorical, breath, oxygen, biomechanical or even bioelectrical...or any other Western scientific rationale. It is a very literal "life force" that can even feel like a "fluid ectoplasm." Again, simply and literally as the ancients described. No need to overcomplicate it.

 

Of course, the catch is that the more open one is, the more one can sense it. But most people aren't very open by default.

 

I hope to get to the point where I can easily see it.

 

It's very easy to see, but like you said, one would need to keep things simple... I see it but it's not fireworks and auras that I see. I see what it "does."

 

At WL's Moscow seminar at one point all the lights in the large hall where it was taking place started going dim in waves -- light, dim, dimmer, still dimmer, still dimmer -- dark -- as WL was doing qi adjustment for all the participants. Simultaneously some people felt tremendous pressure and others, pain, and still others, bliss, and still others, nothing much. (As for me, I felt strong pleasant-bordering-on-scary waves of -- well, qi -- washing rhythmically over my kidneys. Whoosh! Whoosh! Like the ocean when it's pretty stormy and you go swimming and the waves keep coming at you -- as strong and palpable as that, only concentrated in a specific area, and inside the body more than on the surface, penetrating all the way to the core.)

 

There was a physicist present, and someone later asked him about the lights -- what would a "western scientific explanation" be for the phenomenon?.. He said, um, none... absolutely no "western scientific way" to explain it.

 

That's qi -- experience it, yes, explain it... well, no. If it's "life force," what the heck was it doing to the lights?.. I would say it certainly "includes" but is nowhere near limited to "life force." E.g., sha' qi is death force, a very real opposite of life force and still as qi as it gets...

[Easy]

There is a simple method to satisfy this question.

 

Find an honest, sincere, Qigong Master and spend a little time with him/her.

 

Or you don't even have to do that. Just trust your instincts and your power. Christ! Don't you know a teacher is just a middle man with begging bowl? Find instead an angry dog and shield yourself with only your off hand outstretched palm...relaxed. Use that space between your palm and the dog to gently push it back, and then back a little more...feel the push, don't show it. That dog will not come through your power because you are stronger than any dog. Don't look at the face, look at the tail, don't look down. That dog's only chi is in its eyes...don't engage! Talk alpha dog through the palm. There are no words to that talk, its just a power coming from the gut.

 

Do the same thing , gently, gently, across your girl friend's belly and you will find which one of her ovaries will be active next. If you can't trust your hands you can find the same thing with a pendulum, or a feather fan. Chi...who needs belief?

 

Hehehe. I would argue that point but I stopped arguing on this forum.

 

Jesus, don't you know that your statement is an implicit argument? It looks like passive aggression to me.

 

So I will direct a few thoughts toward your passivity.

 

1) First of all, if there is no life there is no consciousness and without consciousness how can anything know chi?

 

2) A little methodology as to the successful investigation. Start with the basics and stay with the basics and when things start to blur...stop! All those who know chi can agree that it functions within the body and around the body. It is not so mysterious...it is a bodily function like catabolism and perspiration. There is nothing to believe in here because chi falls within the realm of consensual reality. Anything else beyond the functions of the body are conjecture, theory, imagination, metaphysics, religionism, the subordination of intelligence to superstition. Now all of those can produce:

 

1. The nice warm fuzzies that come from attaching one's self to THE (unverifiable) TRUTH!

 

2. The easy way into some dogma that will tell you what to do with your life without having to think about it.

 

3. A common kind of follower/disciple/student/sheep life...up there in the warm and fuzzy air.

 

Hehehehehe.

[gendao]

It's very easy to see, but like you said, one would need to keep things simple... I see it but it's not fireworks and auras that I see. I see what it "does."

 

At WL's Moscow seminar at one point all the lights in the large hall where it was taking place started going dim in waves -- light, dim, dimmer, still dimmer, still dimmer -- dark -- as WL was doing qi adjustment for all the participants. Simultaneously some people felt tremendous pressure and others, pain, and still others, bliss, and still others, nothing much. (As for me, I felt strong pleasant-bordering-on-scary waves of -- well, qi -- washing rhythmically over my kidneys. Whoosh! Whoosh! Like the ocean when it's pretty stormy and you go swimming and the waves keep coming at you -- as strong and palpable as that, only concentrated in a specific area, and inside the body more than on the surface, penetrating all the way to the core.)

 

There was a physicist present, and someone later asked him about the lights -- what would a "western scientific explanation" be for the phenomenon?.. He said, um, none... absolutely no "western scientific way" to explain it.

 

That's qi -- experience it, yes, explain it... well, no. If it's "life force," what the heck was it doing to the lights?.. I would say it certainly "includes" but is nowhere near limited to "life force." E.g., sha' qi is death force, a very real opposite of life force and still as qi as it gets...

Fantastic story and good point. It seems there is an unending stream of firsthand accounts of WLP, and they are all f'n impressive. From what I've heard so far, he is not only a ridonkulously powerful, authentic master - but also a truly compassionate one with high integrity as well.

 

But you see, I should have just kept it simple and left it called qi (I did put "life force" in quotes tho). There's just no full Western equivalent term (but maybe orgone energy?). As you say, it can affect inanimate objects too (as John Chang does as well)...so really I think it's more like a subtle primal energy of the universe that transcends the animate/inanimate duality.

 

It can also be very directly & clearly seen when your 3rd eye gets really open though - which is what I would personally like. That would help take a lot of the guesswork or imprecision out.

[Old Man Contradiction]

This is the most truthful perspective on belief that I've ever seen: (youtube clip)

 

Don Miguel Ruiz Living Luminaries Interview Extras

Edited October 15, 2009 by Old Man Contradiction

[de_paradise]

Although the Buddha said to believe nothing and to test for yourself, I have found that the priciple of the Vajrayana path, which is to -believe first-, make real later is a more efficient way to make progress on the spiritual path. This is why perusing texts for ways to meditate and ways to be, (ex. compassionate), is far more efficient than acting randomly, but with an open mind.

 

If a person is not solidly on the path, and is wrestling with things like,"does Jesus really exist or is it a form of social control, and if the latter, I dont its good to believe in any of that"--this person has to get a little more initiated on the path and gain some more personal experiential knowlege as well as perhaps a more suitable, non-denominational explaination. However its not easy to get out of this doubting limbo state, and there are so many apparently competing belief sytems, which are not actually competing at all, but at the level of understanding of a regular person, they are acutually competing truths, therefore none are true.

 

Just having experience of qi is still yet not good enough to be able to parlay that experience into a belief that will help that person advance spiritually. The person still has to have enough self confidence to face thousands of guys in white coats, and millions of scinence teachers who would say otherwise. The person also needs a kind of spark of curiosity, because qi experiences dont put bread on the table or fit in with our social programming.

 

Theres a spark of curiosity or need to know spiritual things that, if strong enough will lead a person to see a qigong master or masters to settle the question. Its really simple, and that theme seems to be repeated all along the path (as I have experienced thusfar anyway)

[z00se]

I know qi exists because:

 

1. a qigong healer on ripply's belive it or not made steam come off a wet towel using only his hands. The towel was around 90 degrees celcius. You can find the video on utube somewhere. Master jo is his name i think. This was under test conditions so it can't be faked.

 

2. i have felt my masters qi come out of his body and come into my body. 2 people experiencing the same thing shows me it exists.

 

3. I have felt another healer put qi into my head and so further leads me to believe it exists.

 

4. Many very big businesses use feng shuai. I know enough to know that big buisinesses don't waste money on things that are not useful.

 

5. i've seen a man make a massive church bell ring from about 15 meters away using only the chi in his voice. No matter how hard the wind blows it won't ring. It has to be from qi.

 

I have 'felt' my own chi but to me this does not prove it exists. Even though it seems real it could be just my imagination. But the above points prove to me beyond any doubt it is real.

[Marblehead]

If it's "life force," what the heck was it doing to the lights?.. I would say it certainly "includes" but is nowhere near limited to "life force." E.g., sha' qi is death force, a very real opposite of life force and still as qi as it gets...

 

Yes, there is much more to Chi than its being 'just' the 'life force'. The 'life force', IMO, is a component of Chi but Chi includes so much more than only this. Chi exists throughout the entire universe.

 

Peace & Love!

Edited October 15, 2009 by Marblehead

[Marblehead]

Hi Easy,

 

Your original statement: Without life there would be no Chi.

 

I totally disagree with this statement.

 

 

Jesus, don't you know that your statement is an implicit argument? It looks like passive aggression to me.

 

So I will direct a few thoughts toward your passivity.

 

That was a test to see if you really wanted to discuss the subject. Hehehe.

 

1) First of all, if there is no life there is no consciousness and without consciousness how can anything know chi?

 

This is my biggest problem with what you initially said. And it is this problem I have when discussing 'reality' with most Buddhists.

 

Chi exists without consciousness. There is an on-going discussion reagrding a book that suggests toward the concept of 'universal consciousness'. I don't buy into this thought. Before there was any form of life in the universe Chi existed. Before there was any physicality to the universe Chi existed. It is the interaction of Chi with potential (Mystery) that is the cause of all Manifestations. Without Chi there would be only 'no-thing' (Tao).

 

The tree still exists whether or not I (or anyone else) see it; Chi still exists whether or not I (or anyone else) am conscious of it.

 

2) A little methodology as to the successful investigation. Start with the basics and stay with the basics and when things start to blur...stop! All those who know chi can agree that it functions within the body and around the body. It is not so mysterious...it is a bodily function like catabolism and perspiration. There is nothing to believe in here because chi falls within the realm of consensual reality. Anything else beyond the functions of the body are conjecture, theory, imagination, metaphysics, religionism, the subordination of intelligence to superstition. Now all of those can produce:

 

1. The nice warm fuzzies that come from attaching one's self to THE (unverifiable) TRUTH!

 

2. The easy way into some dogma that will tell you what to do with your life without having to think about it.

 

3. A common kind of follower/disciple/student/sheep life...up there in the warm and fuzzy air.

 

Hehehehehe.

 

But all of this I basically agree with. Can I scientifically 'prove' that Chi exists? Not really, at this point in time. Chi is, however, IMO, what science is currently referring to as "Dark Energy" although science has placed certain limits on what they think it might be.

 

So there you are. What cha' think?

 

Peace & Love!

[Ya Mu]

When I was younger I "believed" in Qi. Then my perception "opened" and now Qi is my living reality.

 

I experienced qi before I knew what it was and never really believed or disbelieved, it simply was. But yeah, it is my living reality as well.

 

...

I hope to get to the point where I can easily see it.

 

You have the capacity for this. These things are impossible to predict, but If you practice Stillness-Movement daily and maybe attend a couple more workshops I think it will happen within the next 2 years. Practice the sorcerer's vision technique I taught in the workshop. Best (easiest) in evening.

 

Don't want to say be careful what you wish for but even though seeing qi is very useful in my profession, when I see sick qi I sometimes wish I could turn it off. I can't not see it, no matter if I close my eyes and turn my body away from the patient. It is rather ... disgusting...

 

Also remember what I said about totality of perception, it is an energy awareness, not looking through the eyes.

 

 

At WL's Moscow seminar at one point all the lights in the large hall where it was taking place started going dim in waves -- light, dim, dimmer, still dimmer, still dimmer -- dark -- as WL was doing qi adjustment for all the participants. Simultaneously some people felt tremendous pressure and others, pain, and still others, bliss, and still others, nothing much. (As for me, I felt strong pleasant-bordering-on-scary waves of -- well, qi -- washing rhythmically over my kidneys. Whoosh! Whoosh! Like the ocean when it's pretty stormy and you go swimming and the waves keep coming at you -- as strong and palpable as that, only concentrated in a specific area, and inside the body more than on the surface, penetrating all the way to the core.)

 

There was a physicist present, and someone later asked him about the lights -- what would a "western scientific explanation" be for the phenomenon?.. He said, um, none... absolutely no "western scientific way" to explain it.

 

That's qi -- experience it, yes, explain it... well, no. If it's "life force," what the heck was it doing to the lights?.. I would say it certainly "includes" but is nowhere near limited to "life force." E.g., sha' qi is death force, a very real opposite of life force and still as qi as it gets...

 

This dimming of the lights has happened at my workshops. I think it depends on "where" we pull energy from. If I just reach out suddenly and pull energy from everywhere it can happen. But if I consciously pull specific vibrational frequencies from other vibratory levels it does not.

 

Yes, there is much more to Chi than its being 'just' the 'life force'. The 'life force', IMO, is a component of Chi but Chi includes so much more than only this. Chi exists throughout the entire universe.

 

Peace & Love!

 

IMO it is the creative fabric of the universe.

[Marblehead]

IMO it is the creative fabric of the universe.

 

Hi Ya Mu,

 

I agree with you.

 

Lao Tzu didn't speak much to Chi. Only three chapers, 10, 42 & 55, speak to Chi and for Lao Tzu, Chi is the "driving force for the interactions of man and heaven." Heaven meaning the rest of the universe. Quoted phrase from "Dynamic Tao" by Wayne Wang.

 

Peace & Love!

[Easy]

Hi Easy,

That was a test to see if you really wanted to discuss the subject. Hehehe.

 

Ah ha, it was not passive aggression, it was a manipulation! On principle I should back out of this discussion right now. But I won't.

 

Chi exists without consciousness. There is an on-going discussion reagrding a book that suggests toward the concept of 'universal consciousness'. I don't buy into this thought. Before there was any form of life in the universe Chi existed. Before there was any physicality to the universe Chi existed. It is the interaction of Chi with potential (Mystery) that is the cause of all Manifestations. Without Chi there would be only 'no-thing' (Tao).

 

That is a little too airy for me. But I have no problem with you entertaining yourself with that notion. Do you have a picture or a narrative as to how physicality came into being; a little something you could write up yourself, perhaps?

 

Chi is, however, IMO, what science is currently referring to as "Dark Energy" ...

 

That is an interesting hypothesis and when I see the needle moving on the futuristic "CHI (a.k.a. DARK ENERGY) METER" then I'll be able to say, "I do believe I just saw the needle moving." Until then I'll keep my thoughts on the matter localized to those things that I can perceive directly through the senses...clarifies the mind.

 

Ciao

[dwai]

I don't know if you can use a level of mastery achieved in martial arts that doesn't involve qi theory as a point in case. Although it may not be openly taught and/or understood it's still there. There is an ancient Indian dance, I have no idea what it's called, but an Indian girl who danced and practiced martial arts once mentioned it to me. She said within this dance were many of the postures and stances that can be found in most martial arts, and those in turn are yoga positions.

 

Therefore no matter if you know what your doing or not it's still developing qi(dependent on the art)because your'e opening certain pathways with your body positioning.

 

My point isn't that it does or doesn't exist, although I feel it does, my point is simply that the Martial Arts part can't be used as a benchmark. There's just too much cross over practice to say it's proof that it doesn't.

 

It is called Tandava and is documented in a scripture called the Natya Shastra.

 

It is called Tandava and is documented in a scripture called the Natya Shastra.

 

Also, Chi is real...but not everyone can feel it. It is not the breath or oxygen or anything like that. It is that which animates life. It is Life itself. Human beings are very de-sensitized to internal things and Chi is predominantly and internal thing (it can also be an external thing but that's something for another).

 

To the OP, no amount of discussion on this matter will help you 9or any of the skeptics on board) realize Chi till you can find authentic practices that will help first sensitize your mind-body and then strengthen your Chi flow. When you have a strong enough Chi flow, you will have no reason to doubt what it is...as they say...the proof is in the pudding.

 

Those who do not believe in the fact that Chi can manifest itself (when projected) in "super"-natural ways simply haven't experienced it. Those who do, know it for a fact, without an iota of doubt in their minds.

[gendao]

You have the capacity for this. These things are impossible to predict, but If you practice Stillness-Movement daily and maybe attend a couple more workshops I think it will happen within the next 2 years. Practice the sorcerer's vision technique I taught in the workshop. Best (easiest) in evening.

 

Don't want to say be careful what you wish for but even though seeing qi is very useful in my profession, when I see sick qi I sometimes wish I could turn it off. I can't not see it, no matter if I close my eyes and turn my body away from the patient. It is rather ... disgusting...

 

Also remember what I said about totality of perception, it is an energy awareness, not looking through the eyes.

Good points teach, thanks. Well, daily practice is what I'm focusing on now. As you said, it's impossible to predict, but based upon some of the anecdotal experiences here - I'm hoping for some breakthroughs by 300-500 hrs of daily meditation. A bit more than I had originally expected, but I'm more than willing to go that distance, and more..

 

Although if the 3rd eye is part of the macrocosmic orbit, that specifically might fall more into the 600-900 hr range, I dunno?

 

Well, guess I'd rather see nasty sick qi so I can avoid it better, rather than not see it and wallow blissfully in it. Sort of the lesser of evils...

Edited October 15, 2009 by vortex

[sheng zhen]

Well, guess I'd rather see nasty sick qi so I can avoid it better, rather than not see it and wallow blissfully in it. Sort of the lesser of evils...

There is one more option: see it AND wallow blissfully in it. I do it that way

[Old Man Contradiction]

The truth does not need belief in order to exist. Lies need your belief in order to exist. If you believe no one, not even yourself, than only the truth can survive.

 

As for my experience of what some call qi, it comes in many forms. I find it when I compare store bought tomatoes, and the tomatoes freshly picked out of my garden. The garden fresh tomatoes have more life(qi) in them. In the martial arts I can feel the movement of force through my body, this too can be called qi. Sensations of hot and cold. Calm peace with mild visuals after training. These can all be said to be effects of qi.

 

I choose not to see it that way though. Although our ego's delusion may be more subtle, these practitioners have both deluded themselves about their cherished art:

 

 

 

Both of these fighters lack muscle, a necessary component for power. You ever notice that John Chang was pretty fit as well as his qi work being seen in his muscle? You aren't going to be all powerful without physically working very hard. I believe that this is the #1 delusion of qi work.

Edited October 15, 2009 by Old Man Contradiction

[Marblehead]

Hi Easy,

 

Ah ha, it was not passive aggression, it was a manipulation! On principle I should back out of this discussion right now. But I won't.

 

Well, I'm glad you didn't because I enjoy discussing this kind of stuff.

 

That is a little too airy for me. But I have no problem with you entertaining yourself with that notion. Do you have a picture or a narrative as to how physicality came into being; a little something you could write up yourself, perhaps?

 

Nope. I've written no papers. I've conducted no experiments based on the scientific method. However, if you watch any of the science based documentaries on TV that discuss the creation of the universe you will have a pretty good picture of what I believe.

 

That is an interesting hypothesis and when I see the needle moving on the futuristic "CHI (a.k.a. DARK ENERGY) METER" then I'll be able to say, "I do believe I just saw the needle moving." Until then I'll keep my thoughts on the matter localized to those things that I can perceive directly through the senses...clarifies the mind.

 

Ciao

 

Yeah, I know. If you ever get the chance read "Dynamic Tao" by Wayne L. Wang. He has a PhD in Physics. The first half of the book is his introduction and most of that is devoted to explaining what is commonly accept as scientific fact as to how it relates to the Tao Te Ching.

 

Wayne's Home Page is: http://www.dynamictao.com/

 

But you are right. As long as there is no scientific 'proof' of Dark Energy, aka Chi, it is still just a belief. But then there are some of us who believe so strongly in it that we just say "it is".

 

Peace & Love!

[Taomeow]

Fantastic story and good point. It seems there is an unending stream of firsthand accounts of WLP, and they are all f'n impressive. From what I've heard so far, he is not only a ridonkulously powerful, authentic master - but also a truly compassionate one with high integrity as well.

 

True! Compassion and integrity, absolutely no guru-type ego-trips, no self-aggrandizing, and a peculiar, not easy to appreciate for many I think, brand of humility rooted in power rather than in weakness that I think would be the single most important thing to comprehend and emulate for anyone aspiring to learn from a taoist of power.

 

It can also be very directly & clearly seen when your 3rd eye gets really open though - which is what I would personally like. That would help take a lot of the guesswork or imprecision out.

 

I see what you mean. Could be as cool as it gets, sure...

 

Maybe you remember the third eye discussion here though? I recall asserting that modern people are conditioned to be very visual to the detriment of other senses, and that it was not the case with our "uncivilized" ancestors, and that a third eye is part of whoever one is here and now and will "see," should it open, in accordance with the way the whole person already is, i.e. visually in a visual individual -- but in a balanced-senses or other-sense-dominant one, it might "see" nonvisually... Mine opened a bunch of years ago but it was not visual, it was all-sensory (and unbearably overwhelming, which is why I eventually took care to close it). I discovered qi then though (even though I didn't even know the word, nor any theory whatsoever, and hadn't read a single taoist book by the date), but I didn't quite "see it with my eyes" -- I "perceived it with everything I am," more like. I did try to translate what I was perceiving into visual images -- for months I was drawing diagrams, striving to express... then I came across some taoist literature and it transpired that I was trying to invent qi, yin-yang, wuxing, bagua, ganying! I think it was one of the happiest moments of my life when I realized they have already been discovered, named, explored, are real, are not mine alone, and best of all, someone has already done the leg work and I don't have to do it all myself.

 

So in qi reality's defense I might also say that I knew it before I knew what it was I knew, I had no agenda whatsoever... just a drive to express what I was perceiving -- to myself alone at that, not to "prove" anything to anybody. My qi discovery was pristinely without any ulterior motives...

[Easy]

Hey Marblehead,

 

However, if you watch any of the science based documentaries on TV that discuss the creation of the universe you will have a pretty good picture of what I believe.

 

I used to watch those and the last I knew the BB started from a very dense and very small piece of physicality. That was what I was asking: how did that piece manifest?

 

 

If you ever get the chance read "Dynamic Tao" by Wayne L. Wang. He has a PhD in Physics. The first half of the book is his introduction and most of that is devoted to explaining what is commonly accept as scientific fact as to how it relates to the Tao Te Ching.

 

Wayne's Home Page is: http://www.dynamictao.com/

 

I read through Wang's site. Has there been a discussion of his theory and project on TTB? If not, why not? Since you are more familiar with the guy maybe you could see fit to start a thread because I would like to take a shot or two at him but it would be off topic here and there might be others who would be interested.

 

Luego

[Marblehead]

Hi Easy,

 

Hey Marblehead,

I used to watch those and the last I knew the BB started from a very dense and very small piece of physicality. That was what I was asking: how did that piece manifest?

 

How did that happen? Hehehe. I really don't 'know' because I wasn't around when it happened. (Sorry, I couldn't resist that.)

 

Please understand that I am fully content with the Taoist concepts of 'birth and death', 'creation and destruction', 'cycles', and 'reversion'.

 

So, speaking to the physicality of this present universe: it is currently expanding at an increasing rate of expansion. The beginning was the Big Bang. According to the above Taoist concepts, at some point the force that is causing the universe to expand (Dark Energy?) will reach its maximum potential and the universe will not only stop expanding but will begin to decrease in size because of the attraction process of gravity.

 

Eventually, the universe will collapse on itself and become one super-massive Black Hole. This Black Hole will contain everything necessary for the creation of another universe and when it reaches critical mass there will be another Big Bang and a new beginning.

 

Can I prove any of this? NO. But it is what I believe based on the above Taoist concepts.

 

I read through Wang's site. Has there been a discussion of his theory and project on TTB? If not, why not? Since you are more familiar with the guy maybe you could see fit to start a thread because I would like to take a shot or two at him but it would be off topic here and there might be others who would be interested.

 

Luego

 

To the best of my knowledge I am the only person who has mentioned Dr. Wang on this forum. Let me give your suggestion some thought. I will consider starting a thread but no promises, Okay?

 

Peace & Love!

Edited October 16, 2009 by Marblehead

[RyanO]

Hey bums, very interesting topic. I have thought about this a lot myself, and will add my two cents.

 

I think an important thing to consider is not whether "qi" actually exists, but the number of unbelievable claims people make with regard to what they can do with qi. That is, in its application.

 

This notion of there being a force that we can control lends itself to ideas of telekinesis, levitation, etc. Many more people have been found to be frauds with regard to their telekinetic abilities than have been confirmed. I'm not saying it's not possible, but this is my experience.

 

The very abstract and subtle nature of qi lends itself to people making false claims about what it or they can do. This is a huge problem for skeptics, especially considering how difficult it is to validate scientifically and how much weight our society puts on scientific evidence.

 

In short, I think there are two issues here: 1.) The prevalence of sham artists taking advantage of the abstract nature of qi and 2.) An inherent discrepancy between the ancient Taoist and modern scientific worldviews.

 

But yeah, I 'believe' in qi. Because just like love can be explained mechanistically, so can the many functions of qi. And I have felt qi in the way many people describe. Of course this brings into the discussion of objectivity vs. subjectivity which is another topic altogether. In the end, though, I am discerning in the use of the word 'qi.' Seems like it gets thrown around too much these days.

[Marblehead]

Hi Ryan,

 

Good post and valid points of consideration.

 

Peace & Love!

[Old Man Contradiction]

I think an important thing to consider is not whether "qi" actually exists, but the number of unbelievable claims people make with regard to what they can do with qi. That is, in its application.

 

This notion of there being a force that we can control lends itself to ideas of telekinesis, levitation, etc. Many more people have been found to be frauds with regard to their telekinetic abilities than have been confirmed. I'm not saying it's not possible, but this is my experience.