Why do you believe in qi?

[New Dawn Fades]

 

If some moron tried to tackle me he would get his head smashed against the concrete like a rotten watermelon, I guess they don't allow that in sissy MMA.

[DaoChild]

If some moron tried to tackle me he would get his head smashed against the concrete like a rotten watermelon, I guess they don't allow that in sissy MMA.

 

Then show me a video of you doing it.

 

All Talk = 0 points.

 

Walk = +1 point.

 

Anxiously awaiting!

[New Dawn Fades]

Ahh, so many morons in such a small space.

[Marblehead]

Ahh, so many morons in such a small space.

 

It makes me so happy that you have taken your proper place amoungst us.

 

Peace & Love!

[Easy]

It makes me so happy that you have taken your proper place amoungst us.

 

Peace & Love!

 

So I'm outta here...have finer folks to talk to. Y'all have nice lives, y'hear? Hahahahaha!

Edited October 17, 2009 by Easy

[Marblehead]

Anyhow. We are still talking about Chi in this thread so I will reinforce my position.

 

Although I cannot 'prove' scientifically that it exists the concept is one that I believe firmly in - probably just as strongly as a Christian believes in the existence of God.

 

Peace & Love!

[Old Man Contradiction]

If some moron tried to tackle me he would get his head smashed against the concrete like a rotten watermelon, I guess they don't allow that in sissy MMA.

 

you aren't agreeing or even arguing with me... how does the above quote have anything to do with what I posted about the kung fu vs. mma video?

 

Anyhow. We are still talking about Chi in this thread so I will reinforce my position.

 

Although I cannot 'prove' scientifically that it exists the concept is one that I believe firmly in - probably just as strongly as a Christian believes in the existence of God.

 

Peace & Love!

 

If I had to relate my experience to a belief system I'd say I believe in bodily and universal qi, but I also believe in limitations in the control of the universal qi.

 

I most strong heartedly do not believe that someone that practices qigong, but can't do 10 pushups, will be able to pack a punch. Somebody who practices tai chi as softly as possible, but never learns how to connect up the body and issue force, he too I don't believe will be able to pack a punch. Forms are not magic pills, and neither is zhan zhuang. They both take a lot of mental and physical intelligence, creativity, and hard work to get better at fighting.

[Marblehead]

 

... but I also believe in limitations in the control of the universal qi.

 

 

Indeed. Although I have never stated this it is none-the-less very true. There are limits to nearly everything. Chi is a true force but it is not magic.

 

Peace & Love!

[Taomeow]

I most strong heartedly do not believe that someone that practices qigong, but can't do 10 pushups, will be able to pack a punch. Somebody who practices tai chi as softly as possible, but never learns how to connect up the body and issue force, he too I don't believe will be able to pack a punch. Forms are not magic pills, and neither is zhan zhuang. They both take a lot of mental and physical intelligence, creativity, and hard work to get better at fighting.

 

Um... qigong is not a fighting art, you can't learn how to fight unless you fight, and taijiquan (not qigong) teaches you how to fight (if your teacher isn't engaged in BS of course) even if you can't do ten push-ups or pack a punch. I can't do ten push-ups I don't think (never tried, what the heck for -- to damage the range of motion in my shoulders, elbows and wrists by stiffening up the muscles I might want to use to twist out of a lock or coil away from a punch?.. Thanks but no thanks. And for strong bones, which is what I want much more than stiff muscles, there's far, far better routines... qigong, e.g.. ) However, I can send a punching opponent twice my size and ten times my strength flying (no kidding, been there done that -- in a learning situation, not in a RL fight, but I don't expect to engage in many RL fights anytime soon, do you?.. and if, against expectations, I do, I'll use what I've learned in the learning situation in taiji). Even if he or she can do a hundred push-ups, or a thousand, but hasn't learned a soft MA, I still reasonably expect to do some damage using the force of his or her own punch which taiji has been teaching me to redirect. Have you tried real-life fighting with a high level taiji master? (NB -- I'm not one, I just know some.) You should, could be very illuminating.

[Old Man Contradiction]

Um... qigong is not a fighting art, you can't learn how to fight unless you fight, and taijiquan (not qigong) teaches you how to fight (if your teacher isn't engaged in BS of course) even if you can't do ten push-ups or pack a punch. I can't do ten push-ups I don't think (never tried, what the heck for -- to damage the range of motion in my shoulders, elbows and wrists by stiffening up the muscles I might want to use to twist out of a lock or coil away from a punch?.. Thanks but no thanks. And for strong bones, which is what I want much more than stiff muscles, there's far, far better routines... qigong, e.g.. ) However, I can send a punching opponent twice my size and ten times my strength flying (no kidding, been there done that -- in a learning situation, not in a RL fight, but I don't expect to engage in many RL fights anytime soon, do you?.. and if, against expectations, I do, I'll use what I've learned in the learning situation in taiji). Even if he or she can do a hundred push-ups, or a thousand, but hasn't learned a soft MA, I still reasonably expect to do some damage using the force of his or her own punch which taiji has been teaching me to redirect. Have you tried real-life fighting with a high level taiji master? (NB -- I'm not one, I just know some.) You should, could be very illuminating.

 

I have pushed hands and done drills with a high level internal martial arts master. It was illuminating, in fact my life has been re-focused around training since. Never fought one though. Actually, nobody in his class calls him master, only people outside of it.

 

You are 100% right about learning to fight. If you want to learn how to fight you just need to go pick fights, and you don't need a martial art for that. The art can be for healthy life and mind, this I'm sure we can agree on.

 

The philosophy that's been passed on to me is that you need to intelligently train your body as a whole. It is entirely connected. Even qi and muscle have a relationship. If you have a weak spot, it's a limiting factor. If you have a tense spot, that too is a limiting factor. Training your body intelligently and creatively to get the most perfected and efficient synergy you can between all of the elements in your anatomy and all the elements of movement is vital in succeeding.

Edited October 18, 2009 by Old Man Contradiction

[Taomeow]

I have pushed hands and done drills with a high level internal martial arts master. It was illuminating, in fact my life has been re-focused around training since. Never fought one though. Actually, nobody in his class calls him master, only people outside of it.

 

You are 100% right about learning to fight. If you want to learn how to fight you just need to go pick fights, and you don't need a martial art for that. The art can be for healthy life and mind, this I'm sure we can agree on.

 

The philosophy that's been passed on to me is that you need to intelligently train your body as a whole. It is entirely connected. Even qi and muscle have a relationship. If you have a weak spot, it's a limiting factor. If you have a tense spot, that too is a limiting factor. Training your body intelligently and creatively to get the most perfected and efficient synergy you can between all of the elements in your anatomy and all the elements of movement is vital in succeeding.

I just saw an old guy (around 70) actively trying to pick a fight with a young (30s), taller, muscular opponent who kicked his dog. I watched the whole thing unfold. The dog (a rather mean-looking ill-tempered one) was tied on a leash outside a little shop where the older guy was busy shopping, and for some reason started growling and snapping (the dog, not the older guy) at this passer-by who may have provoked it somehow, I didn't see this part. The part I saw was, the younger guy kicked the dog, and the older guy ran out screaming, "try this with me, not my dog, just try this with me, I'll drop you!" He was in his face big time and all geared up for action, which made me wonder if his love for his dog came at a price of a few of his marbles. The younger guy was the bully redneck weightlifter type, and angry and aggressive and I think drunk too, and yet he backed off because the older guy exuded murder. Later he went back to shopping and explained, still seething, that he's not just an old man, he's also an old boxer. Aha!

 

Taiji does something similar to someone with the skill I think. The higher the skill, the lower the fear in any confrontation (and not just physical).

 

I fully agree with your philosophy, by the way.

[voidisyinyang]

And yet didn't they fight to impress you? haha.

[Old Man Contradiction]

I just saw an old guy (around 70) actively trying to pick a fight with a young (30s), taller, muscular opponent who kicked his dog. I watched the whole thing unfold. The dog (a rather mean-looking ill-tempered one) was tied on a leash outside a little shop where the older guy was busy shopping, and for some reason started growling and snapping (the dog, not the older guy) at this passer-by who may have provoked it somehow, I didn't see this part. The part I saw was, the younger guy kicked the dog, and the older guy ran out screaming, "try this with me, not my dog, just try this with me, I'll drop you!" He was in his face big time and all geared up for action, which made me wonder if his love for his dog came at a price of a few of his marbles. The younger guy was the bully redneck weightlifter type, and angry and aggressive and I think drunk too, and yet he backed off because the older guy exuded murder. Later he went back to shopping and explained, still seething, that he's not just an old man, he's also an old boxer. Aha!

 

Taiji does something similar to someone with the skill I think. The higher the skill, the lower the fear in any confrontation (and not just physical).

 

I fully agree with your philosophy, by the way.

 

haha nice! the old man is badass!

 

I agree about taiji. Training your intention, feeling your form become more powerful and coordinated, and pushing hands with people better than you, for me at least, has upped my confidence a bit.

 

ps. my comment about qigong and 10 pushups, I was just trying show that people that have spent most of their life sitting on a couch, aren't going to get up one day, do some qigong, and have so much energy that they can break people's ribs with it. and pushups aren't really a signifier of power since good power comes from a well connected body. and the taiji and softness comment was in regards to when students literally try to go as soft as possible. As in, totally off the sung-gunn spectrum and into inactivity.

[gendao]

[Taomeow]

[New Dawn Fades]

you aren't agreeing or even arguing with me... how does the above quote have anything to do with what I posted about the kung fu vs. mma video?

 

No idea, I didn't read the posts, only watched the first part of the video.

[Taomeow]

Edited October 19, 2009 by Taomeow

[33865_1494798762]

Edited October 20, 2009 by Guest

[Old Man Contradiction]

[Marblehead]

[Old Man Contradiction]

which came first?

 

chinese medicine, or qi theory?

[Guest sykkelpump]

I want to open an honest discussion.

 

Why do you believe in qi?

or why do you not believe in qi?

I do not believe in qi, nor do I believe that qi does not exist. I am unaccustomed to traditional theory, as well as unaccustomed to western science. I do know that there is a mastery level of the internal martial arts that is achievable without qi theory. So I am left inconclusive...

 

plz discuss

 

 

first i ignored this question.you have been training for a long time as you claim.and you ask this stupid question???????????????????????

what have you benn doing??

[Taomeow]

which came first?

 

chinese medicine, or qi theory?

Shamanic medicine, which was a theory-practice blend, no split. It was born in matrilineal societies and these don't use left-brain theory-vs.-practice dichotomy. When patriarchy came (or rather, as I have reasons to believe, was brought about, by alien way), theory and practice first experienced their step-by-step separation. We've moved far along this road since then (or rather, I've reasons to believe, were moved, by alien way). Sigh...

[Prince...]

Um... qigong is not a fighting art, you can't learn how to fight unless you fight, and taijiquan (not qigong) teaches you how to fight (if your teacher isn't engaged in BS of course) even if you can't do ten push-ups or pack a punch. I can't do ten push-ups I don't think (never tried, what the heck for -- to damage the range of motion in my shoulders, elbows and wrists by stiffening up the muscles I might want to use to twist out of a lock or coil away from a punch?.. Thanks but no thanks. And for strong bones, which is what I want much more than stiff muscles, there's far, far better routines... qigong, e.g.. ) However, I can send a punching opponent twice my size and ten times my strength flying (no kidding, been there done that -- in a learning situation, not in a RL fight, but I don't expect to engage in many RL fights anytime soon, do you?.. and if, against expectations, I do, I'll use what I've learned in the learning situation in taiji). Even if he or she can do a hundred push-ups, or a thousand, but hasn't learned a soft MA, I still reasonably expect to do some damage using the force of his or her own punch which taiji has been teaching me to redirect. Have you tried real-life fighting with a high level taiji master? (NB -- I'm not one, I just know some.) You should, could be very illuminating.

 

Wow, that's really impressive. I hope to be able to demonstrate that type of ability in the future.

 

As for chi-- I definitely sense things... I won't say I can sense chi. I get warm, tingly sensations. Sometimes I get bliss feelings. I shake, rattle, and roll during ZZ practice. One of my friends that got my started with IMA and Qigong told me that all that stuff is good--it means I'm working out the kinks. So when I start wanting to think I'm all of a sudden a Taiji badass with my 2 years experience still struggling to learn a new long form, I recall what my buddy said--all this is good, it just means you're working out the kinks.

[Old Man Contradiction]

first i ignored this question.you have been training for a long time as you claim.and you ask this stupid question???????????????????????

what have you benn doing??

 

I've never claimed to have been training for a long time. I've only been training for a year, and for half of that year was doing bare minimum.

 

How is this a stupid question? It started 4 pages worth of comments which is all I asked for. The fact is that a lot of "taiji" out there is crap. It's all way too soft. There is no yin and yang, just shades of yin.

 

modern taiji ; soft and gentle + promises of power = sells to lazy people with no common sense

classical taiji; horse stance for hours + intense conditioning = no students

 

this is a real problem.