euthanasia [not youth in asia]

[Sunya]

 

seems like my little pup is done for. 15 year old cocker spaniel, has been losing energy/will to live for a wh ile. I don't blame him.. sickly existence being an animal. I hated seeing how for the past couple years his only real desire was to eat food; now that desire has lost its touch and it seems he's given up. plus his body is failing and he isn't going to survive long. doesn't eat or drink much. doesn't really move. barely responds to touch.. i don't live at my parents place anymore but I visit and seeing him is hard; i know he is suffering. my parents see it everyday and tell me how they have to feed him, carry him, and how he suffers all the time. the Doc says they don't know how long he has and he might have cancer again. i've said mantras to him a couple times, and made the intent to form a connection with him until I attain enlightenment when I can help him, but till then what can I really do..

 

so they are thinking of putting him to sleep... it will definitely ease his suffering and that is the sole intent of my parents. they don't want to see him suffer anymore. if he continues to not eat or drink his kidneys will fail and then things won't be good.

 

I don't know how I feel about this. on the one hand, I think easing of suffering is a wonderful intent to have; it is truly compassionate.. but is killing him the right answer? or should nature run its course? Is killing with compassionate intent OK? or is killing in any form wrong because it involves a conscious act of harm, even for compassionate purposes.

 

Any thoughts or opinions?

[RyanO]

Dang thats sad. IMO performing euthanasia (love the pun) on an animal in the right circumstance is the compassionate thing to do. I think the karmic rules for domesticated animals are different than humans or wild animals. This is because of the nature of their relationship to us.

 

Pets depend on us for food, shelter, affection, etc. We also give them medical treatment when appropriate. Under the right circumstances, as it sounds like with your dog, putting them to sleep is the right thing to do.

 

I also say this because I don't believe killing is wrong in all circumstances. I'm sure more orthodox religious people might disagree, but that is my view.

 

I feel for you, as I had to do this with my dog. Pets are definitely a reminder of the transitory nature of physical existence.

 

-Ryan

[booktreasure]

Would you need a layman's perspective or a Buddhist perspective? Because from your earlier posts, it seems to me that you like to hear and talk about only Buddhist or Mahayanic angle. If that is the case, it is better to state that clearly here and no one will waste time presenting what you will interpret as Christian or Jewish or Hindu things here. I see two arguments within Buddhism that one can talk of here more from the perspective of suttas and theory, but I would assume you would raise this topic at E-sangha if that was what you were trying to make out of this topic.

 

And, who are you more worried of here? The pup whose suffering you want to ease or of the person who is going to effect this and possibly gain some karma?

Edited October 14, 2009 by booktreasure

[Sunya]

Would you need a layman's perspective or a Buddhist perspective? Because from your earlier posts, it seems to me that you like to hear and talk about only Buddhist or Mahayanic angle. If that is the case, it is better to state that clearly here and no one will waste time presenting what you will interpret as Christian or Jewish or Hindu things here. I see two arguments within Buddhism that one can talk of here more from the perspective of suttas and theory, but I would assume you would raise this topic at E-sangha if that was what you were trying to make out of this topic.

 

And, who are you more worried of here? The pup whose suffering you want to ease or of the person who is going to effect this and possibly gain some karma?

 

well i'm interested in all points of view, not just Buddhist.

 

and i'm worried about all parties. the effects on my dog, and my parents who make the decision.

 

Dang thats sad. IMO performing euthanasia (love the pun) on an animal in the right circumstance is the compassionate thing to do. I think the karmic rules for domesticated animals are different than humans or wild animals. This is because of the nature of their relationship to us.

 

Pets depend on us for food, shelter, affection, etc. We also give them medical treatment when appropriate. Under the right circumstances, as it sounds like with your dog, putting them to sleep is the right thing to do.

 

I also say this because I don't believe killing is wrong in all circumstances. I'm sure more orthodox religious people might disagree, but that is my view.

 

I feel for you, as I had to do this with my dog. Pets are definitely a reminder of the transitory nature of physical existence.

 

-Ryan

 

thank you for your post

[joeblast]

Its a tough choice but like Ryan said, they depend on us and we take care of them - were they in the wild they wouldnt live to 60, 80% of the same life span. By that rationale, would you rather they simply get a little tired and fall asleep, or would you rather see them slowly drown in the poisons of their own body? These pills are all bitter - I'd advise letting him go. Best of luck man.

[Zhuo Ming-Dao]

It seems that today is a day for such things. My parents also put my old family dog down today. He had cancer that had gone to his brain, causing a neurological spasm this morning that made him fall down the stairs and break his hip. If my parents had chose to continue his life, he would have lived out his last few months in pain, unable to walk, and unable defecate on his own.

 

My parents felt that it was their duty to him, as his guardians, to make this decision for him from a place of compassion, even though it hurt them to do so.

 

For the Buddhist perspective - good deeds (such as not killing) produces good karma, bad deeds (such as killing) produces bad karma; but pure, selfless actions (be it killing or not killing) produce neither good nor bad karma.

 

Meanwhile, you can also generate bad karma while following ahisma. If you spared the dog because you wanted to avoid bad karma for yourself (a selfish motivation) then you would of course generate bad karma. And if you killed the dog because you choose compassion even though it was difficult for you, then you generate good karma.

 

Remember the example set by the Buddha. When he was given bad pork in his bowl, he ate it even though it was meat and even though it would kill him, because he had compassion for the layman who had given it out of kindness.

[mat black]

Hi Mikaelz, about putting the dog to sleep, that's a tough decision, but before anything else, this is what I would do personally:

 

Play this song to the dog :

Or if you already know it you could recite it

 

The sutra about the Dharani is here http://bluenaturenetwork.com/DharmaMasterN...arani_Sutra.htm

[Deepbluesea]

My heart goes out to you. From your zillion other posts I know you have a huge heart too. My wife and I have taken in lots of homeless dogs and have several dogs that we have had since birth -- cockers too! About a month ago my parents put down a 16plus cocker mix that we had given them. My wife cleaned her blind litter-mate's teeth under anesthesia just today. Old dogs are the hardest. We have a rule here that when they stop eating (and we try to coax them) that there time is near. The suffering is usually real and obvious, it sounds like that is your case also. Dogs are fortunate that they can legally be euthanized in our opinion. I would hope that once I had lost the will to live, the one's that love me the most could assist me in this manner. Not at all sadly, (though with tears) we have to say goodbye to the physical bodies of friends that borough so deep in our hearts. It is part of the cycle of life. You have lots of fond memories, I am sure. Blessing and love, Dave.

[r.w.smith]

Youth In Asia ffs

[rene]

The greatest gift we can give to our beloved friends, is to accept the pain of loss so their suffering ends.

I held our little guy in my arms while the vet put him down; it was a good and peaceful death for him.

I have no problem with death, death is natural.

I have a real problem with animals suffering.

If ending their suffering brings me bad karma, then screw karma; bring it on.

[i_am_sam]

Like JoeBlast said, if he was living in the wild he probably wouldn't of made it this far already.

Mind/intention matters most - my view is if you're doing out of compassion and a desire to end his suffering, whatever the karmic ramifications it's the right thing to do. I've seen two family pets (dogs) put down, the first was ancient for a dog, 16 or 17, and was being kept alive by the expensive drugs the vet was pushing my parents. Her quality of life was abysmal and it was only when we took her somewhere else after another turn for the worse when the usual vets was closed that I/we realised what we were doing. "What's this dog still doing alive?" were the vets exact words, it felt a relief to let her go.

[Marblehead]

Hi Mikaelz,

 

From my understanding of what Chuang Tzu wrote, euthanasia would not be an acceptable practice for humans. However, I have always been a supporter of the practice as long as it is the only option available for eliminating pain and suffering.

 

It is always a sad time when we loose someone (pets included) we have been close to for so many years. But I think it is important for us to set our own feelings aside during the mment of decision and consider what is best for the one who is in pain and suffering.

 

Peace & Love!

[markern]

Since there is a lot of theory about animals evolving through contact with the energy of advanced practicioners sending him as much energy as posible seems like a good idea. Maybe put him in the healing section so other people send him energy too.

[CarsonZi]

Hi mikaelz, sorry to hear of your sick puppy.

 

My wife and I had to put down our dog about 2 years ago because she had lymph node cancer and it got really bad. It was probably (emotionally) the hardest decision we have ever had to make. I don't have much advice other then to feel the experience fully.....to embrace your dog, let her know you love her, and let her go. The feeling in time changes to one of love and joy for the time you spent together and the sadness of death soon loses it's flavor.

 

My heart goes out to you and your family.

 

Love,

Carson

[thelerner]

Sorry for what you're going through. As JoeBlast said either way its bitter medicine. But on the other side of bitter medicine is health and balance.

 

Trust yourself, make a decision with your parents input, you'll come out stronger for it.

 

 

Sincerely,

 

Michael

[mewtwo]

I believe euthanasia is the right thing to do we had to do that with my dog. I will pray for him.

[Sunya]

thank you everyone. I certainly appreciate the responses.. and I do feel that what is proper is to make a decision with compassionate intent. As a human, I wouldn't want to be euthanized... but since I'm a human that allows me to make a decision. A dog has no rational faculty and has no understanding of such concepts. As the parents, we have to make a decision for the dog... and all the really nice responses here truly helped me realize that it is our responsibility to make that decision. Karmically the dog is suffering, but I think compassionate intent to help stop that suffering is a good thing, and is not interfering with 'natural' processes.

 

What can I do though besides just support my parents in their decision? I am thinking of meditating at the exact time when it will happen, and say mantras with the intent to send Charlie's (my dog's) consciousness to a higher rebirth, specifically human, so that he can attain realization. I think that's the best I can do...

[CarsonZi]

What can I do though besides just support my parents in their decision?

 

....embrace your dog, let her know you love her, and let her go

 

Love,

Carson