I don't know about life anymore

[idontknowanymore]

Dear Fellow Tao Bums,

 

Please forgive me if this post is a little emo, I just found this site and just wanted to get my troubles off my chest.I am 23 years old, and it's been my dream for many years to spend my life cultivating and meditating. I work 60 hour work weeks, and it is really taking its toll on me. I make just enough to cover my bills and save a small amount, and I am a pretty frugal person. I don't eat out or wear fancy clothes, I shop at thrift stores, dollar stores, and budget grocery stores. I don't own a TV or phone only a netbook and a cable internet connection. I've got the cheapest rent I can find in my city, and I don't buy anything unless I have to. I just don't know anymore, working so much and having no time or money it is really hard on my soul. I don't know how to get out of this work, sleep, wake, chores, work, sleep cycle. I wake up each morning and just want to give up, I don't really know what to do anymore. At this rate it will take me 25 years or more to be able to afford a home of my own. I don't have the money or time to go back to school and if I did I wouldn't know what to go back for that I would enjoy or feel is an honest living. I am also scared of death, I guess that is why I am seeking cultivation. I don't want to be destroyed with death, I want to live on. Is this selfish and wrong? I am scared the life I am living will never allow me to cultivate a high enough degree to survive death. If that is the case what was the point of this whole life to begin with? Inside I am very scared, and frustrated with my life. What other living options do I have, there has to be a better way than this. Has any bum here managed to find a way to work less and focus on cultivation more, what is your advice?

 

Your friend,

 

Mikey

Edited October 16, 2009 by idontknowanymore

[growant]

If you are only interested in cultivating and not in making money there are spiritual communities around where you can work off your room and board (don't know for sure but think you'd have to work a fair bit less than 60 hours/week) and can spend the rest of your time cultivating, ideally it would be a spiritual community that is harmonious with your chosen path. Typically if you have a special skill they can use you would do that, otherwise there's always tasks that involve no extensive training you can do.

 

I know there is or used to be one such community in Mt. Shasta, California, google around and I'm sure you'll find others. Good luck!

[ToL]

If you are only interested in cultivating and not in making money there are spiritual communities around where you can work off your room and board (don't know for sure but think you'd have to work a fair bit less than 60 hours/week) and can spend the rest of your time cultivating, ideally it would be a spiritual community that is harmonious with your chosen path. Typically if you have a special skill they can use you would do that, otherwise there's always tasks that involve no extensive training you can do.

 

I know there is or used to be one such community in Mt. Shasta, California, google around and I'm sure you'll find others. Good luck!

 

That's a great idea. If this is too much big change for you, then do a small step. if you have 5 minutes, dedicate it to a spiritual practice you find good for you. you already have experience to dedicate alot of time for things necessary for your body. now do the same, for your soul. many people go like this beyond 60, you are 23, that's really great. determine what is it that you want to do - and go for it, even for 5 minutes. then even if you your fear will come (everytime when we want to change), you will still be there to make the choice for you . that is my friend, already a big step inward. I wish you the best of success my friend!

Peace.

Edited October 16, 2009 by ToL

[Encephalon]

Congratulations! If you are 23, that means you came into legal drinking age about the same time that the global consumer economy danced the Victory Dance before imploding in 2008. You will never see a return to the consumer economy of Hummers and Black Angus and easy credit. You are now living a life in the death spiral of capitalism. Good timing!

 

You can either refine and hone your skills to become a skilled operator in what's left of the consumer economy, or you can follow your heart and organize your life around it. Fortunately, the latter is gaining significance in this day and age. You are not alone. Millions of people want what you want. The following is a list of links that can get you in touch with many of them.

 

www.ic.org Here you will find the international list of intentional communities, everything from taoist hermitages to full-blown, off-the-grid, semi-monastic, agrarian models.

 

The good news is that the kind of lifestyle you want goes hand in hand with these alternative models, because they both place a premium on simplicity. If you can live sustainably, simply, eat well, live in a place with clean air and adequate room and serenity for your mediation needs, then you will have succeeded. Go out there and turn yourself into the handiest guy anyone would want to have around, and you will find joy in our post-consumer world. Tips on that can be found here. http://www.transitionus.org/

 

I've been trying to draw parallels between ancient Taoist villages and those that will endure as our economy undergoes the inevitable contraction to smaller, human scale enterprises. I find the parallels to numerous to count. Good luck with your search.

 

Taoists have always been individualists, but even they need community. We all do. Don't try to go it alone and you'll be fine!

Edited October 16, 2009 by Blasto

[secularfuture]

I don't have the money or time to go back to school and if I did I wouldn't know what to go back for that I would enjoy or feel is an honest living.

What kind of talents do you have? Perhaps you could make extra money as a freelencer so that you won't have to work as much?

 

I am also scared of death, I guess that is why I am seeking cultivation. I don't want to be destroyed with death, I want to live on. Is this selfish and wrong?

I think it's completely natural. The desire to avoid death was programmed into our instincts. But, to live without fear, we must find a way to come to terms with our mortality. When I was a Buddhist I used Satipatthana Meditation to dispel my fears. I'm not sure what the Taoist equivalent of this is yet.

Edited October 16, 2009 by secularfuture

[Old Man Contradiction]

it is not selfish, because living a long healthy life, free of a long drawn out death (like cancers and other diseases) will minimize the suffering of your family when your time comes.

[Capital]

Congratulations! If you are 23, that means you came into legal drinking age about the same time that the global consumer economy danced the Victory Dance before imploding in 2008. You will never see a return to the consumer economy of Hummers and Black Angus and easy credit. You are now living a life in the death spiral of capitalism. Good timing!

 

Haha, I turned eighteen in 2008... What a good time to become an adult in America, eh?

 

-------

 

@ Original Poster

 

Do what the above posters describe if you have the will for it. Perhaps you will find your ability to 'overcome death'.

[SingaporeGuyHere]

good luck and all the best

[Apech]

If its any help I would say the following.

 

Living a frugal life is quite good for cultivation because it builds good attitudes towards living efficiently and economically. This can reflex into how you deal with energy/qi. It may not feel like it of course and I sympathize with how you feel. If you don't do so now I would try to do a little sitting meditation daily (at least 20 mins) - just try to fit it into your busy life and make it routine without worrying too much about quality. I know how hard it is to do this when you work long hours - but it is worthwhile. It will help create space in your life and promote change.

 

Everything that happens derives ultimately from the Tao, Heaven reflects Tao and earth reflects Heaven. Change and transformation is the key and the situation you are in will transform into something else given time. If you can build confidence in cultivation practice and have the right heart then all will be to the good. Its important that transformation occurs naturally and in the right time. For this reason I would think carefully before you abandon your current life or make drastic changes ... there is a tendency to take your existing problems into the new situation and its better to work with what you've got.

 

Best wishes.

 

A.

[lino]

Mikey,

 

You probably won't have to spend very much to get started

There is a lot of info on these boards and internet.

 

I sympathize with you, I was raised in a one-parent home during the 80s.

[CarsonZi]

Don't know if this will help you Mikey, but it is what came to mind when I read your post.....

 

Try to turn every action, every movement, every thought into a sacred offering to the Divine. For me, this brings joy into even the most difficult (or mundane) moments in Life.

 

Love,

Carson

[markern]

AYP si totaly free, very efficient and taught only through online lessons. You could look into that. Even just 10 min a day of AYP meditation will yield positive results. A couple of weeks and you will feel better, six months and you have a huge change. If you do it, you should evnetualy add a grounding technique or two to it such as embracing the tree with visualising roots. Maybe also secret smile or inner smile if time allows.

[thelerner]

Relax, things come and go, smile and try some Hot Chocolate wisdom.

 

 

 

Michael

[Pax]

Relax, things come and go, smile and try some Hot Chocolate wisdom.

 

Michael

Very nice, thanks for sharing that.

[Encephalon]

Relax, things come and go, smile and try some Hot Chocolate wisdom.

 

Michael

 

 

 

 

 

 

Healing

 

Fire cools.

Water seeks its own level.

 

No matter how extreme a situation is, it will change. It cannot continue forever. Thus, a great forest fire is always destined to burn itself out; a turbulent sea will become calmer. Natural events balance themselves out by seeking their opposites, and this process of balance is at the heart of all healing.

 

This process takes time. If an event is not great, the balancing required is slight. If it is momentous, then it may take days, years, even lifetimes for things to return to an even keel. Actually, without these slight imbalances, there could be no movement in life. It is being off balance that keeps life changing. Total centering, total balance would only be stasis. All life is continual destruction and healing, over and over again.

 

That is why, even in the midst of an extreme situation, the wise are patient. Whether the situation is illness, calamity, or their own anger, they know that healing will follow upheaval.

 

Deng Ming-Dao - 365 Tao

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Wow! I'm glad you came forward. As I can relate. I'm 24 and I work 50 hours. I'm working on getting into a Horticultural program, so that I can start my own garden. I would like to make this into a business someday. I also meditate/yoga and must admit, these practices have helped me tremendously. I suggest taking baby steps. I try to do Yoga/Meditation twice a day. In the morning for 30 min and at night for 30 min. It is a difficult road, but continue changing and thinking about change and something should happen for you soon. Read everything you can about Tao it has honestly changed my life.

[idontknowanymore]

Thanks everyone, hopefully things will get better. I just wish I could find some people with my same calling, to help lighten the load so to speak. Is there a bum community yet?

[voidisyinyang]

Yeah I would definitely look for cheaper rent by sharing a house if possible -- usually you just go to the "hippie" part of your town (most towns have a natural foods store or some alternative bookstore, etc.). Then look for room ads...

 

Seriously though you are far on the path already since you have proven yourself independent and practical -- paying your own way, competent at work, etc.

 

Time flies when you're focused on practical endeavors and that in itself is a type of meditation. Karma yoga is considered very important for practice!

 

Right now I'm broke, at my parents, planning to return to school but I already have a masters degree! All the meditation has made it hard for me to work since I have to have a very special diet or else I need lots of antiseptic (alcohol or garlic). haha. People get pissed if you fast or refuse sugar, meat, etc.

 

That's another benefit of living in a house full of vegetarians, etc.

 

So I'm the opposite extreme of you -- I don't want to return to school because I'm over-educated already!! I've spent the last 10 years reading a book a day BECAUSE of my meditation training -- my brain got real hungry to explain the experiences I had, in terms of western science.

 

I too would like a better place to practice but monasteries are either focused on scholarly mind yoga which is not as strict in practice as what I've already done on my own. And as people have noted you need to have special job skills to work for room and board, otherwise you need to pay about $300 month to meditate! So that means having a lot of money saved up.

 

If you move to another country -- well Thailand's monasteries are already over-run with thugs who couldn't find work, Sri Lanka is over-run with civil war with some Buddhist monks carrying guns, etc. India is full of starving people....

 

Finding a teacher who can do the shakti energy transmission is really rare as well -- http://springforestqigong.com Chunyi Lin's is the real deal as far as energy healing transmission. You can always get phone healings if you can't attend his class in person. Then you can build off the energy transmission by continuing the practice on your own.

Edited October 17, 2009 by drewhempel

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Bumpin'

[z00se]

Perfect answer for you. Do what i did.

 

Come to China, if u got a credit card u can use that for ur 1 way ticket. Get a job as an English teacher, no experience required. Work 16 hours a week, get 10,000 rmb a month (Their usual salary is 2000 a month) so you literally are rich here for bugger all work. you'll even get a free apartment and they will refund you your plane ticket money back. Plus you'll get 2-3 months paid holidays.

 

You'll have so much time to cultivate it will be comming out of your ears. You can even go practice tai qi or yoga with many good teachers here or learn a new language. Everything is cheap and anything you want to do you can easily afford, plus you'll have enough money to easily save, much more than you would in America.

 

Of course it's not all rosey here and i want to go back to Australia now myself after nearly 2 years but the first 3 months here rocked

 

If you want help finding a good job PM me

[goldisheavy]

Dear Fellow Tao Bums,

 

Please forgive me if this post is a little emo, I just found this site and just wanted to get my troubles off my chest.I am 23 years old, and it's been my dream for many years to spend my life cultivating and meditating. I work 60 hour work weeks, and it is really taking its toll on me. I make just enough to cover my bills and save a small amount, and I am a pretty frugal person. I don't eat out or wear fancy clothes, I shop at thrift stores, dollar stores, and budget grocery stores. I don't own a TV or phone only a netbook and a cable internet connection. I've got the cheapest rent I can find in my city, and I don't buy anything unless I have to. I just don't know anymore, working so much and having no time or money it is really hard on my soul. I don't know how to get out of this work, sleep, wake, chores, work, sleep cycle. I wake up each morning and just want to give up, I don't really know what to do anymore.

 

You sound like a sincere and good person to me. You don't have ostentatious desires and if anyone, certainly you deserve a good life, a much better life than what our society has afforded you.

 

I strongly believe that a huge reason you are experiencing this is because of our greed-driven "I got mine, fuck everyone else" culture and society.

 

So about 70% of the responsibility for this goes to the asshole employers and to the asshole bankers and so forth. These guys are leeching off our society in an tremendous way. Wealth disparity is at the highest levels ever in USA, and USA is beginning to resemble a banana republic.

 

Ok, but how does this help you? Well, I believe 30% of the responsibility for your predicament still falls on you. In other words, you're not a complete victim. In some measure you've done this to yourself through ignorance on your part (I wouldn't dare call you lazy, but stupid? Yea, I would call you stupid, in a friendly kind of way).

 

At this rate it will take me 25 years or more to be able to afford a home of my own. I don't have the money or time to go back to school and if I did I wouldn't know what to go back for that I would enjoy or feel is an honest living. I am also scared of death, I guess that is why I am seeking cultivation. I don't want to be destroyed with death, I want to live on. Is this selfish and wrong? I am scared the life I am living will never allow me to cultivate a high enough degree to survive death. If that is the case what was the point of this whole life to begin with? Inside I am very scared, and frustrated with my life. What other living options do I have, there has to be a better way than this. Has any bum here managed to find a way to work less and focus on cultivation more, what is your advice?

 

Your friend,

 

Mikey

 

Look at the bright side. You have awakened and you're only 23! Some people realize the same thin you just realized now when they are 50! So you are damn lucky. Count your blessings.

 

First I have to tell you, depending on what/who you think you are, there are two possibilities with regard to death:

 

1. You will die no matter what.

2. You cannot die no matter what.

 

Both of those are good things if you understand their implications.

 

So if you think you are a definite personality with well-defined, concrete characteristics, you will die. You will die no matter what you do. You can stand on your ears and dance on your finger tips, and you can practice in the mountains for 100 years, every second of your life, and you will die anyway. Why is that? Because it's the nature of concrete well defined things to be born and to die. To appear and to disappear. To come and go. To change. Forever. hmmm Change forever... this seems like a hint, eh?

 

If you think you are awareness and not the objects that appear within awareness, then you will not die, no matter how lazy and stupid you are. You can lay on the couch and eat potato chips for 30 years straight and let your body die from a stroke, and you won't die. You don't need to be some big-shot cultivator. You still cannot die. You can lose consciousness in a ditch somewhere from lack of food and die from starvation and you still do not die anymore than when you die in a dream. What happens when you die in a dream? A new dream starts. That's all. Awareness is not something that appears or disappears because awareness is not an object that you can behold.

 

If you firmly understand these two kinds of identity scenarios, then death is no longer a threat. But still, you are here and you are alive and you want to have fun and joy and peace while you're here. So even if you no longer fear death, your problems are not over. But at least that's one less specter of fear hovering over your shoulder.

 

I recommend the following:

 

Find a roommate or two to reduce apartment costs. As far as food goes, apply for food stamps or eat in a Church somewhere for free. Some people do well by dumpster diving for food. There might be some tips and tricks associated with dumpster diving, so you might want to read up on it in order to avoid getting food poisoning from rotten food, but I guess most of it is common sense. Or fuck it, steal food if you must because the society you live in is highly immoral and in that case, stealing for survival is OK. You heard me right. Consider living with parents, relatives or friends. Someone might be able to put you up if you explain the situation. Try anything and be very open-minded. Let all the doors be open for you and don't think yourself into a mental corner.

 

If someone stole food from me and I was sure this person was poor/hungry I would forgive them unless I myself was dying or my kids were dying. If you are sure the person you're stealing from is not dying or is at least in better shape than you, then since there is no justice in our society, do what you must. If you steal from me, I accept this as part of my own responsibility. I am partly responsible for the society you find yourself in. So if someone steals something from me to survive and not out of greed, this kind of effect I will accept without hesitation and without complaint.

 

Then drop your second job. Cut your work week to something sane. Maybe even less than 40 hours! Maybe you can do OK with just a part-time job.

 

You may qualify for all kinds of financial aid. Food stamps, welfare, unemployment, whatever. There might be aid available from your state, city, religious organizations -- not just federal. Research! Libraries with free computer access exist (if you lose whatever current access you have). Do not feel ashamed! Take advantage of anything and everything. Get your work hours down to 20-40 hours a week. Then start learning.

 

Learn a profession that's well paid and in demand. It doesn't have to be fancy or exciting if cultivation is your number one goal. Just learn something people need done and are willing to pay good money for. Sometimes people desire unethical things -- do not learn and do those. For example, do not become a stock broker. That's an unethical job, even though you can become rich that way. Your job might not be saintly, but at the very least, try to avoid jobs that hurt society in obvious ways, because part of the reason you are in your situation is because many many other people took those bad unethical jobs for $$$ and it is because of that you now suffer. So don't inflict this suffering which you now do not enjoy on others. When you choose a profession, be very open-minded. For example, have you considered glass blowing? That's a strange profession isn't it? I bet you don't think about it every day, right? Well there are hundreds of these strange professions out there and some of them are pretty decent and interesting.

 

You might be able to become self-employed by selling some items on the street or opening a hot-dog stand or something like that. There are other routes to self-employment. If you can be self-employed, it might be better for you.

 

Alternatively, save up money and take a survivalist course. Learn how to survive in a forest with nothing more than a knife or just your bare hands and clothes on your back. Leave society and go live in the forest. You might be squatting on "someone's" land, but who gives a fuck. Land ownership the way we practice it in the West (where a single person can own huge swaths of land without any kind of social responsibility) is mostly immoral, so just avoid the owners the best you can, but mostly, if you just go deep enough, no one will come looking for you. It's like you won't even exist to the rest of society. This way you can spend all your time cultivating. You'll need to spend some time hunting and gathering, but ancient hungers gathers only spent 20 hours on this! The rest was leisure. It's only when farming appeared that people started slaving and the society began to get stratified into classes (high class vs low class, owner vs serf, etc.). Many sages have gone exactly this route. As a survivalist you don't have to be totally cut off. You can have a friend visit you a few times a year or you might visit a city and take some temp jobs to get items you need before leaving for a long time again, etc. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. Also, if you find friends to do this with, it may become easier as long as your friends are committed.

 

And know that you are not alone. If you find other like-minded people, together you can really do something great, something that's better than just fixing your personal situation. Because long-term we have to fix our culture.

Edited October 17, 2009 by goldisheavy

[goldisheavy]

What serendipity. I just ran across this article:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/11/business...;pagewanted=all

 

Check it out!

[Encephalon]

Excellent points, Gold. I would only add that it would be good to take a clue from the early Taoists who were fiercely independent and self-sufficient. They rooted themselves deeply into their communities by honing the skills necessary to live and evolve spiritually, the skills that may seem mundane but sustain all other work; gardening, carpentry, animal husbandry, medicine, etc.

 

Definitely check out teaching in China. That sounds very cool.

 

Reading "Emergency: This Book can Save Your Life" is so bloody informative and fun to read that it just might save your life.

 

www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net will show you that you are not alone, and that the world we are moving into will need people like yourself.

[doc benway]

Dear Fellow Tao Bums,

 

Please forgive me if this post is a little emo, I just found this site and just wanted to get my troubles off my chest.I am 23 years old, and it's been my dream for many years to spend my life cultivating and meditating. I work 60 hour work weeks, and it is really taking its toll on me. I make just enough to cover my bills and save a small amount, and I am a pretty frugal person. I don't eat out or wear fancy clothes, I shop at thrift stores, dollar stores, and budget grocery stores. I don't own a TV or phone only a netbook and a cable internet connection. I've got the cheapest rent I can find in my city, and I don't buy anything unless I have to. I just don't know anymore, working so much and having no time or money it is really hard on my soul. I don't know how to get out of this work, sleep, wake, chores, work, sleep cycle. I wake up each morning and just want to give up, I don't really know what to do anymore. At this rate it will take me 25 years or more to be able to afford a home of my own. I don't have the money or time to go back to school and if I did I wouldn't know what to go back for that I would enjoy or feel is an honest living. I am also scared of death, I guess that is why I am seeking cultivation. I don't want to be destroyed with death, I want to live on. Is this selfish and wrong? I am scared the life I am living will never allow me to cultivate a high enough degree to survive death. If that is the case what was the point of this whole life to begin with? Inside I am very scared, and frustrated with my life. What other living options do I have, there has to be a better way than this. Has any bum here managed to find a way to work less and focus on cultivation more, what is your advice?

 

Your friend,

 

Mikey

 

Hi Mikey,

I feel your pain through your post. Life is difficult but also very beautiful and blissful if you have the proper perspective. I can't possibly say anything in a few words to change your life but here are some brief thoughts.

 

Suffering comes from our conditioning. We have been taught since childhood and are inundated daily with certain expectations, likes, dislikes, and desires. We suffer when we want something other than what we have.

The pain is in you not in your situation. Other people could be put into your situation and feel as if they are in heaven (Sudanese refugees come to mind). I'm not trying to say - "you don't know how good you have it" but rather "your suffering is in your desire to have something you do not have" and that is completely within your ability to change whether you make any changes to your job or not.

 

One of the popular lies is that you need free time to cultivate. NOT TRUE! It's easy to cultivate when you have no responsibilities but of what value is that when you choose to come back to the world? It is every bit as effective to cultivate while living your life as it is. You just have to be a bit more disciplined and creative.

One way to approach this is through mindfulness practice. My first exposure to this practice was through a book by Thich Nhat Hanh called The Miracle of Mindfullness. There are many other approaches to your problem and probably excellent and free websites containing similar information but I found that book very useful. I subsequently found many other ways to move my cultivation forward despite having a demanding full time job, wife, children, and other social responsibilities. It is still my greatest challenge to juggle and balance all of these responsibilities.

 

First - you are important. Don't cut yourself short and don't feel that being selfish about your free time and happiness is a bad thing. It's essential! If you want to make cultivation a priority you can. Don't go out late. Get up an hour earlier and practice meditation before work. Learn a Taiji form and practice every morning and so on.

Second - if you are able to leave the miserable dream we call society for a utopian existence, COOL! I've dreamed of doing that but don't have the courage to leave my responsibilities behind.

Third - if you choose to stay in the world, make that life your cultivation. Difficult but far from impossible.

 

Good luck!

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Mikey,

 

One suggestion: Is your given name Michael? if it is, I suggest you use it, always and everywhere, instead of 'Mikey'. If you want to be taken seriously as a man, you've got to drop the kid nickname. Seriously. Names are important. Very important. A name orients you to the world, and the the people around you. Michael is a wonderful name, many successful Michaels out there, the only Mikey I know of is the Life cereal kid ("Mikey-He likes it!"). I promise you it will make a difference. Use it here on Taobums, with your family, work, women, everywhere. Or pick a new name that has power and strength, and use it. Also, your TaoBums name, 'idontknowanymore' may reflect your current state of mind, but is it where you wish to remain? Why not pick a name of strength, or of seeking, rather than one of surrender? Will you want that name next month, next year? If so, you stil 'wont know anymore'.l

 

You have the energy now to work a lot, just plan your future so you can work smarter, not just harder.

 

Pick your friends carefully. Hang out with successful people who are going someplace in life. This is very, very important. it will affect your degree of success more than just about any other thing you can easily do. Plus, the connections you make will lead to other opportunities that will lead you out of your work predicament. You won't get anywhere hanging out with your fellow dishwashers (or whatever) from the restaurant you may be currently working at.

 

Instead of reading the Tao Te Ching only, pick up some practical success-type stuff, maybe like Tony Robbins. You can move to some alternative community, but if you escape from life there, you will be stuck there, and in the same situation as now when you want to leave. Create some degree of success wherever you go. Work hard, make sacrifices, and find something you have passion for and go for it.

 

Stay in touch, we're a pretty supportive community here, unless you're into pushing Buddhist propaganda.

Edited October 17, 2009 by TheSongsofDistantEarth