David Deida

[Ian]

So why would making love "to" her be grammatically incorrect? I still dont get it.

 

I'm sorry, I'm really trying to making it clear, but to me, once noticed it's obvious, so it's hard to explain.

 

What could "to" possibly mean there? Making love in the direction of her?

 

Maybe it helps to really split making...

 

 

... love. For me that's not two words with one meaning of "the nice action that people do". It's two words with their individual meanings still attached.

 

Could you make sandwiches to her? Clearly not, I hope.

 

You could make sandwiches for her and that's pretty clear.

 

But you can't make love for her and bring it to her afterwards. You have to do it together. With her.

 

Hope that helps. My intention is not just to be pedantic.

 

Ian

 

Later edit: Just thought - maybe helpful to ask: could you make peace to someone, make contact to someone? No, with, each time. And those are pretty much synonyms, to me.

[Taiji Bum]

Oh.. I think I am using "love" as a verb and your using it as a noun.

[Mal]

LOVE

For instant enlightenment, this is the test: Can you love during ever- increasing heaven and hell?

 

Can you love in all directions, inwardly and outwardly?

 

Even during moods of disgust and pain and shame and death wishes doubling unto themselves in a tight knot of loneliness and searing torment, can you love?

 

If you cannot love, nothing changes.

 

If you can love, nothing changes.

 

Except that you can love.

 

Nothing and nobody will ever give you anything, except an opportunity to love.

 

Now.

 

 

INSTANT ENLIGHTENMENT - David Deida

[三江源]

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Edited March 26, 2015 by 三江源

[宁]

I kinda agree with Pietro.

For once, you can start wherever you are. If you wait until you're really good, that'll never happen. You become more subtle as time and experience go hand in hand.

Sex or love-making is primally a physical event that in time can tune one into the non-physical.

There are indeed many layers, and Space and Time - as understood by the Chinese, play a large role in the dynamics of the layers, which of them surface, and when.

Ego has a really small power. Ego is like a puppet-president put up by the conquering country, to give the illusion that everything is in control. Meanwhile they plunder.

This is one thing i can't really understand, Ian.

Why do you think Ego has any power?

It is only the real mind that has power. The mind that seizes the moment.

Not the one that has an idea, and that idea MUST influence the reality.

The process is the other way around. You start from where you are.

 

L1

[Ian]

For once, you can start wherever you are. If you wait until you're really good, that'll never happen. You become more subtle as time and experience go hand in hand.

I never suggested waiting. I don't know where Pietro got that. I just suggested not faking, and I believe Deida encourages faking. Pietro seemed to suggest that not faking implied waiting.

 

Ego has a really small power. Ego is like a puppet-president put up by the conquering country, to give the illusion that everything is in control. Meanwhile they plunder.

This is one thing i can't really understand, Ian.

Why do you think Ego has any power?

It is only the real mind that has power. The mind that seizes the moment.

Not the one that has an idea, and that idea MUST influence the reality.

The process is the other way around. You start from where you are.

 

I entirely agree with starting from where you are.

 

And the rest is just semantics. You can say the ego has no power, and that is true, in essence. But 6 billion people are in thrall to it every moment, so it's not without the ability to convince that it does have power. It has force, for sure, if not power.

 

How long can you sit thoughtless? Myself, not that long.

 

That's a great quote, Mal. Very challenging. I am an instant failure in my own eyes when I read it.

 

I think it's bollocks. It sounds wonderful. The skin of his writing is inspiring, as ever. And the reason we feel like failures is precisely because it's a shining ideal with no practicality. How would this love actually be done, made, carried out, in these moments of doubt shame, whatever? What would the state be, where would one's attention be, in the moment?

 

Curious: he doesn't say. I bet if he was demonstrating it, there would be some noble facial expressions.

[Pietro]

I never suggested waiting. I don't know where Pietro got that. I just suggested not faking, and I believe Deida encourages faking. Pietro seemed to suggest that not faking implied waiting.

...

 

Here is someone who is sharing something from his path. You can study, and follow it, or do something else. If you already have something else to do, good for you. But many people do not. And those people are lost, and can only wait and look for a better teacher.

 

I kinda agree with Pietro.

...

Little1 agreeing with me?!!!

That's weird indeed ;-)

[三江源]

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Edited March 26, 2015 by 三江源

[宁]

I learned that in love matters you just HAVE TO agree with an Italian. Neh?

 

I only disagree with people that are close to the way i see things, but not exacly my way. Isn't that general?

 

Ian, my point was that when ego prevails, most of the things happen to us, they are not ego induced.

Our egos tend to form a sub-conscious network with all of the ego-controlled people. Underground consciousness. Ego doesn't give you identity, any more than the self gives you one - the self is an expression o the super-conscious human network.

You're right, it sounds like fancy semantics. But it could be true...

[Ian]

Here is someone who is sharing something from his path. You can study, and follow it, or do something else. If you already have something else to do, good for you. But many people do not. And those people are lost, and can only wait and look for a better teacher.

 

What? Are you saying I should shut up and leave Mr Deida alone, because he might help people?

 

If not, please elaborate...

 

If so, where is the ultra-libertarian Pietro I know and love?

 

I happen to believe his path is not a path and will leave people more lost than they started. That's all.

[Pietro]

What? Are you saying I should shut up and leave Mr Deida alone, because he might help people?

 

If not, please elaborate...

 

If so, where is the ultra-libertarian Pietro I know and love?

 

I happen to believe his path is not a path and will leave people more lost than they started. That's all.

 

no, no, I grant you the right to speak ;-)

it's more like you should accept that people who are lost might follow Mr Deida, until they find a higher teacher like you :-P

[Ian]

no, no, I grant you the right to speak ;-)

it's more like you should accept that people who are lost might follow Mr Deida, until they find a higher teacher like you :-P

Splendid, carry on.

[Mal]

It sounds wonderful. The skin of his writing is inspiring, as ever. And the reason we feel like failures is precisely because it's a shining ideal with no practicality. How would this love actually be done, made, carried out, in these moments of doubt shame, whatever? What would the state be, where would one's attention be, in the moment?

Curious: he doesn't say.

Interestingly: I don't need him to tell me how

 

edit :Does any of us need to be told how to love? We have a lot of different methods at our disposal why add another unless that is what you are searching for.

 

Better reply later (perhaps) I'm late for my chi gungs

 

(must stop surfing before practice on the weekends)

 

Hope the dentist was o.k. cat

[Mal]

[Ian]

Interestingly: I don't need him to tell me how

Now we're getting somewhere ! Can you tell me? How is it when you are loving? What's the difference between that and not loving? And physically. How does it feel?

Does any of us need to be told how to love?

 

Unfortunately, I believe so. Most of us, in my opinion, have an idea of love, an attitude of love. But not love. But then I guess it depends what we mean by the word. And if I remember, previous attempts to define it have not exactly reached consensus !

 

I wish we could all just meet up and talk about this. I reckon we'd all be agreed in half an hour. I must admit I'm getting sick of being so pompous and opinionated. Which means I must be irritating the shit out of the rest of you !

[Birch]

Oh THIS is an interesting thread!

 

Ian being pompous (although I doubt it;-))

 

Mal making all kinds of distinctions about love. Hot vs not.

Mal, ask her about the metaphor of the handcuffs from her POV.

 

I attended a speech once where the woman was talking about traditional wedding symbolism. I felt very very uncomfortable (stuff like chains and cattle were being referred to - yak)

 

Anyway, I've been reading a lot about fallout between partners. Apparently this is addressed by many spiritual practices. I was shocked, shocked! to hear of Buddhists at it! Taoists, not surprised;-)

 

Kabbalists do it

Gnostics do it

Taoists do it

Buddhists do it

Bees do it

Birds do

Even itty bitty somethings do it

Let's do it, let's fall in looo---ove (can you hear Sinatra?)

 

I didn't much like the sound of the Deida stuff about women being bitchy (NB inferred from this thread). Anything that seems to have generalizations (sic) in it should be looked at closer. Like that John Grey dude. Like some of the basic idea - hate the form.

[Mal]

[Birch]

Ok. So I had NO IDEA that Deida mentioned the exercise of imagining your father (or we could say for women flatly : your mother) dead. I don't like that at all. He's also making a big time assumption that the parent of the same sex is the deal. It could be the other one and you'd miss it if you followed those instructions.

 

For sure, to gain any kind of insight, you have to kill your own ideas

(whether they are of your mother and father or not)

 

What's going on with D? What's going on with you? Check the rear view mirror before changing lanes;-)

[Mal]

D and I are super cool

 

Rather long response strangely deleted by keyboard weirdness, I'll take that as a sign!

 

But I will retype that in all the books I've read only 70%, and often less, of the advice has been right for me at that particular time in my life. D points out the intro to WOTSM that it is for certain situations and target populations and you will often have to switch the "gender tags" for your particular situation. But he writes in absolutes because acknowledging every variation is too unwieldy.

 

For a different approach this is one I've read before http://www.makingloveeveryday.com/ More love than success orientated "Better sounding" advise but not really life changing.

 

I have Dear Lover as well now.