Taoist Internal Alchemy and the book 'Taoist Yoga'

[voidisyinyang]

Michael Saso has a new book that connects Taoism back to Western religions:

 

http://www.michaelsaso.org/?p=229

 

This might be a good source:

 

http://eng.taoism.org.hk/general-daoism/ma...cts/default.htm

Edited October 27, 2009 by drewhempel

[Iskote]

Check out www.taoiststudy.com - it looks to have quite good information though I only just start to check it out. Cheers All

 

I just had a chance to do a quick peruse of that website.

Lots of very good info on there on internal alchemy and related practices.

It seems it is run by the same folks who run the other Damo Qigong/ internal alchemy

website at http://www.damo-qigong.net/.

I see they are offering internal alchemy workshops in June and September 2010.

Probably something well worth looking into for someone who is seriously interested

in practicing internal alchemy.

 

[Note added later:]

The curriculum for the workshops looks like it is pretty demanding, with a lot of

material and practices crammed into the 17 days for the workshops. It looks

like it will be quite the experience!

 

The people running the workshop are listed as:

Master Hu

Master Guan

Master Zhang Jia Lee

and the group guide is listed as: Italo Cillo.

The bios for these people are listed here: http://www.taoiststudy.com/content/workshops-2010-faculty

The bio for Italo Cillo is quite interesting.

 

 

Best wishes from Iskote...

Edited October 28, 2009 by Iskote

[Guest allan]

A number of things to address:

 

1) One reads of the full lotus position being made mandatory by some Daoist masters for their students in China; or claimed to be the ideal pose in most Chinese alchemical systems/variations.

 

Read my recent blog entry on the full lotus position where it is addressed, if interested.

http://atouchofancientszhouyi.blogspot.com/

 

2) Apparently Eva Wong wrote that Northern Quanzhen taught the cultivation of mind first and then cultivating the body while Southern Quanzhen taught the reverse, but she did not elaborate why. Then she went on to say that the Quanzhen in the north disapproved of the use of sexual yoga to gather internal energy while the southern school of Zhang Boduan did not. Finally she mentioned that the disciples of the northern school were ordained as Daoist priests while those of the southern school were lay people.

 

One wonders if readers of her book understand why the Northern school teaches the cultivation of the mind first while the Southern school taught the cultivation of the body first. And whether or not there is anything wrong with that.

 

Did Zhang Boduan write in his inner alchemy texts to use sexual yoga to gather internal energy? (Since Eva Wong implied that his southern school approved of that.)

 

One would assume she would know the differences between Daoist priests and lay people of Quanzhen, and how they are to be taught. Of course if all her readers do too, there could be fewer misunderstandings of Quanzhen teachings by discerning Tao Forum members.

[Iskote]

 

2) Apparently Eva Wong wrote that Northern Quanzhen taught the cultivation of mind first and then cultivating the body while Southern Quanzhen taught the reverse, but she did not elaborate why. Then she went on to say that the Quanzhen in the north disapproved of the use of sexual yoga to gather internal energy while the southern school of Zhang Boduan did not. Finally she mentioned that the disciples of the northern school were ordained as Daoist priests while those of the southern school were lay people.

 

One wonders if readers of her book understand why the Northern school teaches the cultivation of the mind first while the Southern school taught the cultivation of the body first. And whether or not there is anything wrong with that.

 

Did Zhang Boduan write in his inner alchemy texts to use sexual yoga to gather internal energy? (Since Eva Wong implied that his southern school approved of that.)

 

One would assume she would know the differences between Daoist priests and lay people of Quanzhen, and how they are to be taught. Of course if all her readers do too, there could be fewer misunderstandings of Quanzhen teachings by discerning Tao Forum members.

 

Generalizations always have exceptions. I mainly posted the excerpts from Eva Wong's

book because it provided some useful background info on how the Wu Liu sect came into being.

As always, if someone goes on record as saying one thing, there will always be others who disagree.

From what I have seen anyway, making any statements about Taoism, or any other topic for that matter,

in a public forum is almost certain to bring about disagreement. Anyway, people who are at least somewhat

familiar with the history of Taoism tend to naturally take anything written about it with a grain of salt. Others

who are less familiar tend to start catching on fast. However, this applies to anything in life really, so it is not

anything new.

 

Best wishes...

Edited October 31, 2009 by Iskote

[AugustLeo]

.

[bindo]

 

 

EDIT: btw, theory comes from practice and not the other way round

Traditionally a teacher would 'explain' theory only when the student shows signs of having embodied it already.

To teach theory before that only leads to 'dreaming' and it is a disturbance to practice

This is the same thing told to me back in 1990 by one of Mantak Chia's senior instructors (The Professor) when me and a friend were telling him about the difficulties we were having in understanding the theories of Taoism, chinese medicine, qigong, etc.

 

He said you have to do the practices first, and then you will begin to understand the theory behind it.

 

That has been some of the best advice I have ever received, and has made a world of difference in my practice. It is applicable to all of life actually.

[宁]

This is the same thing told to me back in 1990 by one of Mantak Chia's senior instructors (The Professor) when me and a friend were telling him about the difficulties we were having in understanding the theories of Taoism, chinese medicine, qigong, etc.

 

He said you have to do the practices first, and then you will begin to understand the theory behind it.

 

That has been some of the best advice I have ever received, and has made a world of difference in my practice. It is applicable to all of life actually.

 

it's not that easy.

what do you do when there are no theoretical explanations of states and feelings that you experience in practice.

i do feel quite alone now, with that... but still, quite secure... weird...

[AugustLeo]

.

[Iskote]

A few final comments. This is all just from my own personal perspective and experience.

From my own limited understanding, the underlying essence of taoism has always been

about spiritual cultivation. By spiritual cultivation I mean it includes cultivation at all levels,

i.e., body, mind, and spirit, inside and outside. This means cultivation involves every aspect

of a person's life, including interaction with others and our relationship with the 'world' around us.

Really from this perspective, dividing lines such as body, mind, and spirit, inside and outside, and self

and others, etc. are just distinctions of convenience as they are really all parts of the whole that is being cultivated. One attempts to cultivate in such a way that is always natural and harmonious with the whole.

 

As we all know, there are many out there who like to represent themselves as experts and even 'masters'

of taoism or tao, and they can be encountered just about anywhere, i.e., both in the East and the West.

Obviously it would then be advisable to use some degree of discretion when considering who to seek out

as a guide or teacher. One should keep in mind that just because someone is fairly accomplished at

some form of qigong or martial arts or whatever other practices, and claims some connection to taoism

or tao, does not necessarily mean at all that such a person is a true cultivator of taoism, or tao or the way, or

whatever you want to call it. Likewise, just because someone wears a taoist uniform and/or claims a taoist

lineage of some sort, also does not necessarily mean that they are a true cultivator of taoism or tao or

the way. Of course no one is perfect, and we all display various faults of one sort or another, but let's

face it, if a person is presenting themselves as some sort of expert, teacher, or master on taoism

or tao, and they are often arrogant, egotistical, abrasive, overly judgemental or critical of others,

or overly concerned with making money, or often seem to be trying to promote or represent themselves

as some sort of expert or authority then, from my perspective anyway, you are not going to ever be

able to learn much of anything about taoism or true taoist principles and practices from such a person.

If a person doesn't embody basic taoist principles, at least to some extent or other, then how can one say that

they are a true cultivator of taoism or taoist principles?

 

Now you may be able to learn and progress to some extent or other in some form of qigong or martial arts from such a person, but this in no way necessarily means one is cultivating the way, or taoist principles, or

taoism, or whatever you want to call it. There are always those who ignore such warning signs for whatever

reasons, so just because such self proclaimed or self represented experts/teachers/masters may have a

following to some degree or other also in no way means such a person is genuinely cultvating the way or

teaching taoism or taoist principles. Although such things may be obvious to those who have been at this for

a while, it seems to me that it never hurts to remind ourselves of such things from time to time to help keep

things in perspective and to hopefully help guide us along our way.

Again, this is all just from my own personal perspective and personal experience, and I realize other

peoples' experience and views may be different. I just thought I would throw this out there anyway, for

what it is worth.

 

Best wishes from Iskote, and may all your thoughts be good ones...

Edited November 1, 2009 by Iskote

[WhiteTiger]

However most people, even those who believes to be already high level, are often just scratching the surface so actually - considering the average time spent on practice - talking is really just a disturbance

 

YM

 

Wonderfully said.

 

EDIT: btw, theory comes from practice and not the other way round

Traditionally a teacher would 'explain' theory only when the student shows signs of having embodied it already.

To teach theory before that only leads to 'dreaming' and it is a disturbance to practice

 

Isn't this how transmitions are supposed to be taught.

 

It is actually by all this much 'talking' about 'moving qi' etc. that modern day 'masters' trick so many gullibles ...

 

YM

 

Amen.

[WhiteTiger]

Like many in the west you mistake "dao" for "daoism"

 

The first is a universal principle that in China belongs to Daoists, Buddhists and Confucianists alike

The second is a specific set of practices with their rigid rules and limited systems

 

Take care

 

YM

 

Could you please expand on this comment a little more?

 

ty,

tig

 

YMWong,

Would you call yourself a Master?

Edited November 2, 2009 by WhiteTiger

[YMWong]

Could you please expand on this comment a little more?

 

When a daoist is ordained he is given a set of rules, this is called 受戒 (shoujie, accepting the prohibitions) in chinese. Some are general and most are lineage-related.

Daoism strives to bring us back to "Nature" but this is NOT the 'nature' we mostly know.

Our understanding of 'being natural' is bound by the fact that we see the world of phenomena from our (spoiled) eye. A baby is natural when he is born but soon after he starts to get spoiled, so we need to re-learn that.

Therefore to 'become free' we have to "be bound" and follow the rules first.

 

YMWong,

Would you call yourself a Master?

 

Not even close, a student and not a proficient one

 

YM

[WhiteTiger]

YMWong thank you very much for your reply.

 

When a daoist is ordained he is given a set of rules, this is called 受戒 (shoujie, accepting the prohibitions) in chinese. Some are general and most are lineage-related.

Daoism strives to bring us back to "Nature" but this is NOT the 'nature' we mostly know.

Our understanding of 'being natural' is bound by the fact that we see the world of phenomena from our (spoiled) eye. A baby is natural when he is born but soon after he starts to get spoiled, so we need to re-learn that.

Therefore to 'become free' we have to "be bound" and follow the rules first.

This is very funny because it is my experience is that one must follow strict rules of practice to achieve certain degree(s) of cultivation. It is within these strict rules (I rather call them principles) that one must continuously follow.

 

Not even close, a student and not a proficient one

 

YM

Although I was not testing how humble you are.

Interestingly enough I wonder what does that make me?

Don't worry no offense taken.

[exorcist_1699]

The Wu-Liu school , which Zhao Bi Chen (趙避塵) belongs to , its writings is said to be the most explicit in

explaining the Taoist steps of cultivation . However, even in the mentioned book, "性命法訣明指", Zhao deliberately reverses and mixes some steps. In fact, I can't find anyone from the Chinese legacy, who knows the whole complete steps , dares to tell publicly all the details . Only fool believes the claim that qi is simply another subject of science, and people can talk about it as clear and detailed as other subjects . Maybe some Westerners "masters " believe such claim , but they are not from the Chinese legacy , nor do they know the complete steps .

 

Yet the issue is not about West or China , it is an issue about how large a group of audience in which we should talk about those crucial steps leading to immortality .

Edited November 3, 2009 by exorcist_1699

[Iskote]

However, even in the mentioned book, "性命法訣明指", Zhao deliberately reverses and mixes some steps. In fact, I can't find anyone from the Chinese legacy, who knows the whole complete steps , dares to tell publicly all the details .

 

Hi exorcist. What is the source of your statement that Zhao deliberately reversed and

mixed some steps? Can you provide any further details regarding some steps

being reversed and mixed in the book?

 

Best wishes...

[Non]

Iskote

 

Check out this vid. I'm watching it for the FIRST time and I'm not done yet but then I opened this thread at the same time -- and both deal with sex and yoga....

 

 

Now then you ask me

 

"can you give me a quote?"

 

NO because I gave my copies away of Taoist Yoga -- even though the people receiving this book (and MANY other books on spirituality) do not take the books and teachings seriously -- they're TOO ATTACHED to sex, drugs, work, etc.

 

Still I give the books to prove that I'm not attached to the books yet I also take the books seriously!? Think I read too much? Here's a book for you -- YOU try reading! haha. Most do not have the mind focus because they're too caught up in their girlfriends, drugs, work, etc.

 

So I'm not sure the exact quote but it's referenced in Taoist Yoga around Chapter 10 or so that after the 7 day fast you will have the ability to give females ORGASMS through your external 3rd Eye energy.

 

Can you find this reference? It's a bit opaque -- but quite clear if you study the book.

 

So I discovered accidentally that indeed I had this ability. I was sitting in full-lotus in public -- WHY? -- because females were hitting on me so strongly to suck off my stored up jing (chi) that I had to take preemptive defense action.

 

But then my "preemptive defensive action" in full-lotus in public became offensive in that a young female stood directly in front of my full-lotus 3rd Eye gaze -- with her backside to me -- a young, high school Asian female. She SHRIEKED as we had a mutual climax. Then she was giddy with delight!

 

I had to accept the reality of what happened. Then I tested it out and posted my results for open criticism, calling it the "O at a D" Orgasm at a Distance over at http://breakingopenthehead.com That was about 3 years ago -- since then I've initiated HUNDREDS of females in the Twin Cities, Minnesota and all I can say is that the "yoga" scene in the Twin Cities is THRIVING!!! Females want more of this orgasmic energy!!

 

Now then -- "Taoist Yoga" states that even though you have this ability to give females orgasms DON'T DO IT because females will just WANT IT MORE!!

 

Well -- guess what? The sex mutual climax is HEALING ENERGY -- females want it more because MOST MEN suck off females! Sure very forward lusty slut females suck off males instead of males sucking off females! More power to the lusty liberated sluts! Again if males can't control the lower half of their body then they deserve to be sucked off instead of using violence (anger) to scare the females into submission and then suck off the females.

 

A lot of males are Number 2 males (based on Gurdjieff's Mahayana consciousness system) this means their "positive vitality" -- the essence of their personality -- their character -- their subconscious ELECTROMAGNETIC essence chi is stuck in their lower chakras.

 

Taoist healers KNOW HOW TO TRANSMIT ELECTROMAGNETIC MALE CHI ENERGY OUT OF THEIR THIRD EYES -- this is the healing love energy.

 

The book "Taoist Yoga" is based on males keeping females in a submissive controlled state so the females do not suck off the males - (therefore the males do not have to fear losing their chi energy).

 

This is misogynist control as alchemy -- I'm not going to share seeing this misogynist control in action by high level powerful Taoist alchemists. Let's just say that up until the 1980s females were not supposed to talk in public when with males! It's a long history of patriarchy and females have been secretly fighting it all the way.

 

For example it's well-documented now that over 10% of children are born from not the husband -- the female marries into money and then the female secretly sleeps with a "stud" (lower class, physically more robust male). So then the female raises a more physically robust child in a more wealthy mentally robust male household....

 

Controlled evolution -- secret subversion! And when the economy tanks then the female just becomes a "slut" -- takes on more males to get more money!! And if the female is totally economically independent because she has to be, then all the more reason to be MORE of a slut -- the more the female can suck off the males the better her chance of being dominant in the workplace!!

 

So when "Taoist Yoga" states you can give females orgasms but don't do it because the females will just become sluts, wanting more and more orgasms, - I say MORE POWER TO THE FEMALES because as tantra teaches it's a free energy exchange MUTUAL PSYCHIC CLIMAX --- what I call the

 

"O at a D" orgasm at a distance. Mantak Chia teaches this as well....

 

Yes this is the real secret -- as "Taoist Yoga" states, alchemical powers are based on the most shameful thing in society -- sex energy. And so there you have it.

 

But for real tantra the male-female sex exchange quickly becomes so intense it can only be completed in seclusion -- in the secret of the night -- in the privacy of marriage, etc. Because you have to transcend love, transcend the BROKEN HEART of love (from orgasms the heart chakra opens up -- after about 10 - -then REAL LOVE kicks in!!) - nothing is more painful -- and then the

 

positive vitality as chi is stilled by the compassion of the sadness lung energy. Eros of the "over-excitement" of the heart chi energy combines with the slow lung samadhi energy to create

 

"compassion"

 

again this is detailed in "Taoist Yoga" (it's the MORE ADVANCED PRACTICE -- the lung sadness energy as slow breath combining with the heart over-excitement energy) --

 

CAN YOU GIVE ME A QUOTE???

 

And so real Nirvikalpa Samadhi -- real "Emptiness" of Taoism is beyond the "over-excitement" or love of the heart -- it's "pure awareness" or the

 

"internal nature" of Taoist Yoga. The whole body is FILLED WITH CHI and then transcended into SHEN outside of the body -- post-death to pure consciousness or "internal nature."

 

Notice how "internal nature" is not focused on in "Taoist Yoga" yet the student asked about it in the beginning and the end of the book.

 

The fact is that the "immortal" body of Taoist Yoga is still SHEN -- it's astral light that transforms the physical body -- it's the "positive spirit" or yin pre-natal vitality jing....

 

But when the body is finally vaporized into pure light shen -- where does that light go in the infinite "universe"?

 

That's right it returns to "eternal nature" what I call the "female formless awareness" -- the pure consciousness that is the beginning and start of Buddhist and Hindu Vedic meditation -- the Emptiness or "spirit of the Valley" of the Tao Te Ching...

 

The Cosmic Mother will never be unveiled as it's stated in another source (forgot the origins -- Egyptian -- Greek?)

 

As Master Nan, Huai-chin states there are DIFFERENT LEVELS OF EMPTY AWARENESS....

 

Taoist Yoga takes you to the "final" level -- the Supreme Complete Enlightenment of Mahayana Buddhism -- past the "rainbow body" -- yet Advaita Vedanta is the "direct path" of left-brain logical inference (the left-brain vagus nerve going to the right side of the heart). Advaita Vedanta as mind yoga relies on complete separation from females.

 

So there's 3 different angles

 

there's the tantric sex yoga -- still found in the "diamond body" path of Tibetan Yoga (but also the underclass Tantra tradition of India and the Bushmen tradition of Africa).

 

There's the full-lotus alchemy of Taoist Yoga and Kriya Yoga in India (both relying on the microcosmic orbit or small universe)

 

And there's the mind yoga of Theravada Buddhism and Brahmin Vedic meditation.... and Dgzochen in Tibet, etc. -- relying on no contact with females -- even visual contact!

 

Each is a different degree of female-male sex relations --- which is right or wrong? We'll only the pure consciousness is right or wrong -- beyond the two! haha.

 

damn. I was looking forward to getting this book until you stated this book is based off misogynist ideas. Any other book which covers the same topic that you could recommend?

 

But I might get the book just for the "O a D" information

Edited November 22, 2009 by Non

[voidisyinyang]

Yes and MORE -- see the training is to develop qi which then heals -- for the female jing energy! So it's not really misogynist only if the male wants even more power he has to develop it internally instead of losing it as qi. So that's the secret of dual cultivation which is even more rare since it requires special situation with your female friend! haha.

 

So "Taoist Yoga" is the best book for the training in my opinion but after chapter 10 you need guidance of a teacher.

 

damn. I was looking forward to getting this book until you stated this book is based off misogynist ideas. Any other book which covers the same topic that you could recommend?

 

But I might get the book just for the "O a D" information

[Non]

Yes and MORE -- see the training is to develop qi which then heals -- for the female jing energy! So it's not really misogynist only if the male wants even more power he has to develop it internally instead of losing it as qi. So that's the secret of dual cultivation which is even more rare since it requires special situation with your female friend! haha.

 

So "Taoist Yoga" is the best book for the training in my opinion but after chapter 10 you need guidance of a teacher.

 

so what kind of fast causes the O a D ability? Is this a regular no food fast for 7 days or more?

[voidisyinyang]

Non -- http://springforestqigong.com provides a complete yet very simple system of practice which will open up the 3rd Eye -- it's exactly the "correspondence course" that Stiggy pines for. haha.

 

So you have to first mainly do active, standing exercises. Then also do a 1/2 hour of microcosmic orbit plus a 1/2 hour of "self-concentration" or emptiness meditation mind yoga in half-lotus.

 

So you are doing two hours of active exercise plus 1 hour of sitting meditation. Do that for two weeks then increase the microcosmic orbit to an hour and sit in half lotus for an hour and do 1 hour of active instead of 2.

 

The idea is to create electromagnetic fields and when your belly fills with electromagnetic fields -- after about 3 months of practice -- then you reach about chapter 10 in the book "Taoist Yoga" -- which means you naturally will not be hungry.

 

So if you are in the proper environment where you are not surrounded by mundane idiots who will freak due to their lower chakra electromagnetic subconscious awareness -- THEN you can go on an energy feast (a fast of food and a feast of electromagnetic energy).

 

At the end of that energy feast (bigu) the middle of the brain fills with electromagnetic fields, the third eye opens up, you see dead spirits around you, you have telepathy, precognition, and telekinesis. You do healing.

 

OR you continue to escape from mundane reality and take your training even deeper to fully open the third eye. Read Master Nan, Huai-chin for further details. You can also read my blog posts at http://naturalresonancerevolution.blogspot.com

 

But if the third eye opens then you can sit in full-lotus as long as you want, as long as there's a steady intake of jing electrochemical energy, the source of which will also suck up your electromagnetic energy transmitted out of your third eye.

 

so what kind of fast causes the O a D ability? Is this a regular no food fast for 7 days or more?

Edited November 22, 2009 by drewhempel

[Non]

Non -- http://springforestqigong.com provides a complete yet very simple system of practice which will open up the 3rd Eye -- it's exactly the "correspondence course" that Stiggy pines for. haha.

 

So you have to first mainly do active, standing exercises. Then also do a 1/2 hour of microcosmic orbit plus a 1/2 hour of "self-concentration" or emptiness meditation mind yoga in half-lotus.

 

So you are doing two hours of active exercise plus 1 hour of sitting meditation. Do that for two weeks then increase the microcosmic orbit to an hour and sit in half lotus for an hour and do 1 hour of active instead of 2.

 

The idea is to create electromagnetic fields and when your belly fills with electromagnetic fields -- after about 3 months of practice -- then you reach about chapter 10 in the book "Taoist Yoga" -- which means you naturally will not be hungry.

 

So if you are in the proper environment where you are not surrounded by mundane idiots who will freak due to their lower chakra electromagnetic subconscious awareness -- THEN you can go on an energy feast (a fast of food and a feast of electromagnetic energy).

 

At the end of that energy feast (bigu) the middle of the brain fills with electromagnetic fields, the third eye opens up, you see dead spirits around you, you have telepathy, precognition, and telekinesis. You do healing.

 

OR you continue to escape from mundane reality and take your training even deeper to fully open the third eye. Read Master Nan, Huai-chin for further details. You can also read my blog posts at http://naturalresonancerevolution.blogspot.com

 

But if the third eye opens then you can sit in full-lotus as long as you want, as long as there's a steady intake of jing electrochemical energy, the source of which will also suck up your electromagnetic energy transmitted out of your third eye.

 

wow man 3 damn hours a day of practice. in western society you dont have any time for anything like leisure exept for eat sleep and sex (to find the girl u go to a club, find one and act 'bad' spew out random vulgarities to her and dont come off as a nice guy,take her home and she's yours at least for the night. if you take good care of her ie do her well enough and don't act like you're falling in love, and kep up with the vulgarities she's yours for longer)

 

lol

 

but NEVER act like the respectful caring nice guy unless you can act like a bad guy more than half of your time. cuz she'll disrespect you and look at you like a sad puppy and step all over you and make fun of you while she goes off with another bad guy to do something....

 

Edited November 25, 2009 by Non

[WhiteTiger]

Yet the issue is not about West or China , it is an issue about how large a group of audience in which we should talk about those crucial steps leading to immortality .

 

I could not agree with you any more.

[Pandit Tree]

I will not go into the is it/is it not whatever that one may want to make of Charles Luk's translation. Old Charles translated works from the Chinese and he did many a fine translation.

 

I want to talk about Luk as a person.

He was a devote Buddhist, spent a lot of his life doing translations from mostly Buddhist works for which he got paid very poorly (ripped off!). When he retired from his regular work, he spent all his time doing research and translation. He would do that first thing in the morning he got up, work all the way till noon when he would go for a short lunch break. He would then return to continue his work all the way till supper time...

 

He always had time for people. He always helped people. He led a disciplined and frugal life.

 

Was he Taoist?

 

He was a great human being and worthy of great admiration though he would be too humble to want that.

[exorcist_1699]

Hi exorcist. What is the source of your statement that Zhao deliberately reversed and

mixed some steps? Can you provide any further details regarding some steps

being reversed and mixed in the book?

Comparing with other writings written /edited by /from those widely recognized Taoist masters Liu Yi Ming (劉一明), Li Xi Yue(李西月) , Liu Hua Yang (柳華陽), Wang Yuan Ji(黃元吉 ) and their teachings in the Ching Dynasty (A.D. 1636~1911), the book "性命法訣明指" is unlikely to be superb ; it appears tedious and trivial ( not because of its conversational form ) ; yet this kind of triviality gives people an impression of detailed and deep. Readers who have /can read other Chinese Taoist writings simply can sense that, so I will not go into details here .

 

Just mentioned few points : for example, Zhao's method starts from asking people to focus at the position generally called upper dantian , yet what is this method 's( or starting point "起手")relation to the small cosmic circulation is unclear ; Besides, if people start from focusing at it, instead of the general way of starting from the lower dantian , does the route :

 

" making use of yang in Kan so as to grasp the Yin in Li " still apply ?

 

In the book , he mentions several times the important acupuncture point " 生死竅" (life-death point) , yet never is it really be told to the readers where it is ...

 

The relation between the so-called " 祖竅"(original "cave") and Magic Gateway "玄關" is also untold...

 

So, even a master who claims ignoring the old taboo of " punishment from the heaven" ("天譴"), and spreads widely the secrets of Taoist practice , in his puzzle , there are still so many missing blocks..

Edited November 30, 2009 by exorcist_1699

[Iskote]

Comparing with other writings written /edited by /from those widely recognized Taoist masters Liu Yi Ming (劉一明), Li Xi Yue(李西月) , Liu Hua Yang (柳華陽), Wang Yuan Ji(黃元吉 ) and their teachings in the Ching Dynasty (A.D. 1636~1911), the book "性命法訣明指" is unlikely to be superb ; it appears tedious and trivial ( not because of its conversational form ) ; yet this kind of triviality gives people an impression of detailed and deep. Readers who have /can read other Chinese Taoist writings simply can sense that, so I will not go into details here .

Someday I would like to be able to read more texts in Chinese, but there is only limited time

for studying Chinese. Maybe someday I will get there.

 

Just mentioned few points : for example, Zhao's method starts from asking people to focus at the position generally called upper dantian , yet what is this method 's( or starting point "起手")relation to the small cosmic circulation is unclear ; Besides, if people start from focusing at it, instead of the general way of starting from the lower dantian , does the route :

" making use of yang in Kan so as to grasp the Yin in Li " still apply ?

I think Zhao does explain the reason he recommends starting off by focusing on the

original cavity of the spirit until one sees its glow. The reason given was that so one can

be able to clearly distinguish its glow from the light given off from circulating the microcosmic orbit.

As described in the book, at a specific stage one must be able to clearly recognize and distinguish

the original cavity otherwise one could make a mistake that could lead to problems or failure.

 

In the book , he mentions several times the important acupuncture point " 生死竅" (life-death point) , yet never is it really be told to the readers where it is ...

The relation between the so-called " 祖竅"(original "cave") and Magic Gateway "玄關" is also untold...

So, even a master who claims ignoring the old taboo of " punishment from the heaven" ("天譴"), and spreads widely the secrets of Taoist practice , in his puzzle , there are still so many missing blocks..

 

Well I believe Zhao's book is meant more as a guide to help guide students in their practice, and I

think Zhao states in the book more than once that a student should seek out a good teacher. Zhao even

spends time pointing out how to help distinguish a true teacher from the many frauds.

Apparently even in his day there were many fraudulent or 'misguided' teachers out there.

Personally I think the main value of Zhao's book is it can be used as a guide to a sincere

seeker of 'tao' in seeking out a real and accomplished teacher. Without sone sort of guideline

on what are legitimate practices and what are false practices one would be searching pretty much

in the dark. Based on some people's interpretations of what is written in Zhao's book, I think

that reading the book is no guarantee that a person will be any further along in being able to recognize

true teachings from false teachings, and a true teacher from a false one, but it at least it may

help some people in that respect.

 

To be clear on my point of view, I personally don't think it would be wise for anyone to seriously attempt

internal alchemy meditation practice without the guidance and assistance of an accomplished teacher.

I do think people can lay the foundation on their own such as opening the microcosmic and

macrocosmic orbit, but there are potential problems in doing just that and having the guidance of good

teacher can help one avoid problems, or to overcome problems if they run into some along the way.

Anyway, I do think that most people can do a lot to help their health through practicing simple quiet sitting

or standing meditation and various types of qigong and internal martial arts, and that is more than

enough for most folks purposes it seems to me. One can seek out a good teacher, but what one can achieve

is limited by their capacity, character, and determination. If we look at history, it seems it is really only the

few that have the capacity to go really far in practices such as internal alchemy or other serious forms

of meditation, and it seems to me, most people are not really interested in such practices anyway.

To each their own. We all have our own purposes and goals in our lives...

 

Best wishes...

Edited November 30, 2009 by Iskote

[exorcist_1699]

Generally speaking, start from focusing at upper dantian , i.e. , inside area between our eyes, is much more difficult than starting from the lower dantian, an area also called the "sea of qi" ("氣海") .In many cases, students who start from focusing at lower dantian can get some feeling of qi easily , while people pay attention to the upper dantian sense nothing, but initializing symptom of high blood pressure . So, you need to have more skill and patient to start from the upper dantian , it also means you need to have more intelligent disciple to learn it and make it success.

 

Unfortunately, in the early decades of the 20th century, in the Beijing area , there seemed to have no such high intelligent person , so although Zhao claimed several thousands of followers and 17 disciples who knew the complete steps(know the complete steps does not necessarily mean they can put them into practice and in the end attain the goal), there is no outstanding figure later comes out from his school .

 

His claim that he could ignore, although partly ,the old taboo of carefully choosing disciples and not too widely spread Taoist secrets otherwise Punishment would come from Heaven , to me , sounds a little strange . Is it because it was the eve of the Japanese invasion (1931 ) ? However, foreigners' invasions of China are so frequent in the Chinese history : the Huns, Turks, Mongols....so it should not be the reason . Or, is it because of the coming of Western science? However, Western science and technology came and became influential so early in the years before the 1840 Opium War, not starting from Zhao's times, and ,other contemporary Taoist masters in 19th century did not raise the strange idea as Zhao later did.

Edited November 30, 2009 by exorcist_1699