8 Brocades

[DanC]

After looking at my daily routine I have come to the conclusion that I have too much going on and need to simplify. I have decided to go back to basics and learn the 8 Brocades (Ba Duan Jin), I have ordered 8 Simple Qigong Exersices for health by Yang Ming Jwing. The book outlines both seated and standing forms of the 8 Brocades, Im going to opt for the seated version which will be done twice daily and thats about all I will do, maybe some simple Qi massage after my seated practice. I really needed to just focus on the simple but still powerfull techniques as I got overwhelmed getting into Winns CKF tapes, I may at a later date include some quiet sitting meditation as well.

 

What do yall think...

 

Daniel

[GrandTrinity]

I think thats a pretty boring qigong. I would rather do the standing 8 ba dua gin and then do sitting meditation, gathering all that qi into the dan tien to store there and infuse your channels.

[DanC]

I'll try both out, but I like the idea of doing the sitting brocades and proceding straight into deep meditation.

[rex]

After a period of burning the candle at both ends I practiced the seated Ba Duan Jin for half an hour a day for two weeks. It does what it says on the tin. I practiced the form taught by Simon Blow on his dvd Absorbing the Essence. He has a nice presence on the dvd and it was good to practice following his movements. Michael Winn's stuff on the microcosmic orbit came in handy when practicing the microcosmic orbit between each form in the set. The Ba Duan Jin set ended with a period of stillness meditation.

 

Rex

[hagar]

Dan

 

I find the simple and basic practices the most fascinating because they have a kind of beginners mind to them. And that's where all the juice is anyway.

 

I did some 8 piece brocade some years ago, from Ken Kohens book. (i think it was) I found them fun, but it's difficult when you do things from a book. You lose the important nuances and small differences that make a BIG difference.

 

Do a class, weekend or retreat with a good teacher.

 

I tried some Tiger form of the 5 animals taught by a friend. Then I took the 5 animals retreat and WHAM, a whole different world opened up-

 

h

[thelerner]

Winns Chi Kung Fundamentals (heck most of his tape series) throws many practices and lot of philosophy at you. It really is a matter of taking from it what resonates. The philosophy is to open you up to the wider implications of the energetic world.

 

One thing about Winn is you can take classes w/ him. During seminars he's a regular guy who willing to eat, play and just talk w/ those there. One good live instructor is often worth more then 3 dead legendary instructors .

 

That said, I'm trying to move away from reading and thinking philosophy and into keeping it simple. Still the fundamentals like inner smile and microcosmic orbit do resonate with and within other practices.

 

Movement compliments stillness, visual practices compliment empty mind (IMHO). Controlled breathing exercises improves natural breathing. Maybe it the difference between starting neutral and starting positive. To often our average state is more negative then we realize so that the movement and visualizations get us back to true neutrual or a more positive state of mind so that our simpler practices are done in a better space.

 

 

 

Michael

[sunshine]

If you decide to go for the standing one you might as well have a look at Dirk Oellibrandt's Meridian QiGong...

 

Harry

[Jeremiah]

I do the 8 brochades to close Fire Dragon as that is how Wu teaches and practices it. That is part of a lineage form. There's a lot of variations on the 8 brochades. I kinda just see them as housekeeping.

 

I've retreated on practices many times. It's always good to step back and work in a confort zone for a bit. Listening to yourself & knowing what is gonna work at the moment is part of being in the flow.

 

qi :-)

 

[Leo]

In my opinion, it's a fine idea to concentrate on the simple. After your glowing review of Stephen Chang's work, I started using it and am very happy with the results. In the internal exercise book, he has a version of the standing eight brocades which is also very simple (he calls them the Eight Directional Exercises). I haven't been doing them, but I see no reason that they are inferior to any other version (and after reading TONS of different versions of them, I've NEVER seen two the same!). I've been doing lots and lots of different types of these exercises both Eastern and Western for about twenty years, and have come to the conclusion that you are way better off taking something simple and really digging into it for a long time, than you are switching every six months because you found something "better".

 

Also, the exercises he gives in the "upon waking up in the morning" section are almost identical with what I believe to be about the best version of the seated brocades I have come across, although Chang's version is not presented as a set, and takes a lot less time. If you REALLY want to check these out, I recommend you get a copy of "Qigong teachings of a Taoist Immortal" by Stuart Alve Olson, although it will definitely not shorten your practice time. I have a copy I'm saving for when I'm an old man. It will make you feel unbelievably wonderful, but it takes over an hour a day to do it right (which will suit me just fine once I've retired!).

Edited December 12, 2005 by Leo

[DanC]

I have the Olson book and agree its a very detailed description of the 8 Brocades, thats why Im looking at Yang Ming Jwing's set to see if its a bit more simple and less time consuming.

[Maddie]

I noticed this is an old thread. Anyone on here these days do the 8 brocades? What do you get out of them?

[adept]

I do Shifu Yan Lei's Shaolin Qigong version of the 8 Brocades. It's done with typical Shaolin stances which are a lot lower than other versions I've seen. This obviously develops a strong, firm foundation.

Other benefits from daily practice over a long period of time are similar to most qigong forms:

Resistance to diseases, allergies and infections.

Mental clarity.

Better sleep patterns.

Control of diet and eating habits.

Strength, softness and flexibility.

A peaceful outlook on life.

[Reed]

Good timing on the thread bump

 

I've just started doing the seated version most mornings for the last couple of weeks, mainly from here:

 

 

I'm doing each piece a couple of times and will build from there.

 

Something strange has happened with my sleep very recently: it's becoming more normal ie I'm going to sleep at about 11 and waking up around seven-ish. I've no idea whether this is due to the brocade or whether it will last, but it's unusual enough for me to have taken notice.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Reed

[joeblast]

8 brocades is awesome...but I dont practice the set these days, although freeform sessions contain much of it for me. I needed something a little more specific since I have back issues, found that in xing shen zhuang.

[Naziri]

i do the old set of Baduanjin usually every day in the morning. It's a great set. i also do a sitting set from the famous master Li (famous for his alleged old-age), through my Xingyi line. It bears no external similarities to the Qi Kung set, but it goes by the same name. i usually do that in association with genital weight qi kung training. It's very good, but very different than the standing, classical set. Do any of these long enough though and you'll get good results.

 

Peace.

[Antares]

I think almost every 8PB qigong is nearly just calisthenics exercises. I have got the book on traditional bagua zhang eight pieces which had been practiced by legendary late Lui Zi Jiang (passed away at age of 119) who received Longmen Pai transmission as well.

Yes, brocades look simple there too but they have some "little" distinctions. For example when you do forward strikes you should go as low as you can in your mabu stance and at the end of the strike tense your body and open eyes wide. This is not explained in most calisthenics brocades. The explanation for "wide eyes" is that eyes connected with liver and when you do this your liver is cleansed on the energy level. And there is tree stance along with brocades. But this is only first stage in energy cultivation but I think is vitally important. It is for the jing cultivation. And it is done with meditation and body points massage

Edited May 7, 2013 by Eugene

[Maddie]

I thought instead of starting a new thread about a topic that I'm sure has been discussed a lot I would just dig an old one up. 

 

My question is when doing the eight brocades is there anything that you do internally or is it all just the movements and breathing?

[doc benway]

1 hour ago, dmattwads said:

I thought instead of starting a new thread about a topic that I'm sure has been discussed a lot I would just dig an old one up. 

 

My question is when doing the eight brocades is there anything that you do internally or is it all just the movements and breathing?

 

I pay attention, I remain connected to what is happening inside me as well as outside.

As frequently as I get distracted by thoughts or feelings, I continually return to the present moment.

[Miroku]

Any good free sources for them? I have been quite curious about them for a long time, but the courses are now closed and I don't have money anyway.

 

[Feng69]

On 12.12.2020 at 4:25 PM, dmattwads said:

I thought instead of starting a new thread about a topic that I'm sure has been discussed a lot I would just dig an old one up. 

 

My question is when doing the eight brocades is there anything that you do internally or is it all just the movements and breathing?

Hello dmattwads, 

I practiced them for some years, and sometimes I still do them. 

When practicing, beside the correct movement combined with the breathing, in my opinion, it's very important to practice them with the feeling that the muscles hang off the bones because then the muscles and the connective tissue have a nice "hanging" stretch throughout the whole exercise. 

That's where the internal aspect rises, in my opinion. 

Best wishes 

Edited December 15, 2020 by Feng69

[Vajra Fist]

On 12/12/2020 at 9:44 PM, Miroku said:

Any good free sources for them? I have been quite curious about them for a long time, but the courses are now closed and I don't have money anyway.

 

 

This is a good set

 

 

 

This one also has a few fans on reddit

 

 

This is the Yan Lei one mentioned earlier in the thread

 

 

As you can see, they're all pretty different. Part of what puts me off about this type of qigong. Yang Jwing-Ming also has another different take on the brocades, which is well regarded. 

[Miroku]

1 hour ago, Vajra Fist said:

 

As you can see, they're all pretty different. Part of what puts me off about this type of qigong. Yang Jwing-Ming also has another different take on the brocades, which is well regarded. 

 

Yeah same here, but at the same time there must be something to it, since there are so many old traditions right?

[Vajra Fist]

You're not wrong! I think in each of the versions, the individual exercises do the same thing, largely. Guess it depends on which version really appeals most to you.

 

Mimi explains which brocades do what pretty well in the first video above. I've taken a few classes with her and she's a genuinely nice person too, although I haven't practice her version of the brocades for any length of time.

 

I did practice the Yan Lei one above for a few months and found it had quite a bit of juice. But I always worried whether my hand was in the right or wrong position. I practiced in the UK shaolin temple for a bit under Yan Lei's brother, and found YL to be mostly a martial artist who dabbles in a bit of qigong. So I have a question mark in my head over most of everything he teaches on the internal side (rightly or wrongly - I could be being a bit unfair)

Edited December 17, 2020 by Vajra Fist

[Rakiel]

I don't mind Jesse Tsao's version on Amazon Prime.

 

Also Yan Xin (not the legendary Qigong master) has good instructions on Youtube

[Maddie]

Do the eight brocades only improve health or can they be used for cultivation? Is there a deeper aspect?