Liberation?

[C T]

Hi all!

 

A friend asked me this question not so long ago - "What does profound, unobstructed liberation mean?"

 

Spontaneously, my reply was, "Its the moment when one arrives at the one-pointed state of absolute recognition of the empty, yet substantial nature of the arising, and waning, of all thought formations and perceptions.

 

In that state, all self-grasping and aversion subsides, and mind-stories give way to an awakened state of pure, pristine clarity where the * I * falls away together with all concepts and notions of the dualistic separation of self and other, subject and object, where words and descriptions and labels no longer hold any relevance.

 

At that moment of the uncontrived, unobstructed collapse of all projections (of mind), where one remains in spacious, non-fabricated, primordial awareness, one IS the liberation, or the divine union with the Self. The sense of re-tuning in, and returning to, one's true nature, to the Mother Womb, will have been complete".

 

 

If anyone care enough to share their thoughts and personal experiences here it would definitely make for interesting reading!

 

(Please note that the above observation was made shortly after completing a nine-year celibacy stint. Its not part of any tradition, nor instructions given by any guru or lineage-holder. It was a personal choice, one that was made with much fear and hope.)

[Lucky7Strikes]

Hi all!

 

A friend asked me this question not so long ago - "What does profound, unobstructed liberation mean?"

 

Spontaneously, my reply was, "Its the moment when one arrives at the one-pointed state of absolute recognition of the empty, yet substantial nature of the arising, and waning, of all thought formations and perceptions.

 

In that state, all self-grasping and aversion subsides, and mind-stories give way to an awakened state of pure, pristine clarity where the * I * falls away together with all concepts and notions of the dualistic separation of self and other, subject and object, where words and descriptions and labels no longer hold any relevance.

 

At that moment of the uncontrived, unobstructed collapse of all projections (of mind), where one remains in spacious, non-fabricated, primordial awareness, one IS the liberation, or the divine union with the Self. The sense of re-tuning in, and returning to, one's true nature, to the Mother Womb, will have been complete".

If anyone care enough to share their thoughts and personal experiences here it would definitely make for interesting reading!

 

(Please note that the above observation was made shortly after completing a nine-year celibacy stint. Its not part of any tradition, nor instructions given by any guru or lineage-holder. It was a personal choice, one that was made with much fear and hope.)

 

Check out thread where I run into walls. .

 

I think some Buddhists would disagree with the "Mother Womb."

[Inedible]

It seems to me that there is too much focus on the condition of being enlightened and not enough talk about the things that get in the way of reaching enlightenment. It is easier to talk about the things that falsely appear to be real than it is to talk about being at the point when false appearances no longer arise.

[C T]

It seems to me that there is too much focus on the condition of being enlightened and not enough talk about the things that get in the way of reaching enlightenment. It is easier to talk about the things that falsely appear to be real than it is to talk about being at the point when false appearances no longer arise.

 

Hello Inedible!

 

Indeed you have observed well! However, may we consider that when one is at the point where false appearances no longer arise, all the *talk* possible becomes irrelevant and insubstantial? Moreover, there are just too many things that gets in the way of liberation, in fact, for one who sees not perfection from the beginning, every *thing*, no matter how profound or insightful, will simply create yet more get-in-the-way things? Isnt this the norm?

 

This is merely my own limited understanding. Your views?

[Trunk]

Spontaneously, my reply was, "...

Where is this guy *getting* this stuff? Didn't just fall off the turnip truck.

(Please note that the above observation was made shortly after completing a nine-year celibacy stint. ..

Serious sadhu stint.

 

The only thing that I'd add is mention of the bindus. Bindus have a natural resonance with the Vast Light and are key to concentration~openness integration.

[C T]

Where is this guy *getting* this stuff? Didn't just fall off the turnip truck.

Serious sadhu stint.

 

The only thing that I'd add is mention of the bindus. Bindus have a natural resonance with the Vast Light and are key to concentration~openness integration.

 

Hey Trunk!

 

Thank you for mentioning the bindus. Not sure what it/they is/are, but will certainly have a dig somewhere to see what you have alluded to here.

 

Have a good day.

[Trunk]

Thank you for mentioning the bindus. Not sure what it/they is/are, but will certainly have a dig somewhere to see what you have alluded to here.

Over at alchemicaltaoism.com, click on "extraordinary vessels" along the left and the related links are under the "core vessel" essays, especially this one (link). That lays out the basic mechanics, and then there are methods that support getting the bindus to light up. I don't know of any concise writing on methods.

 

cheers,

Trunk

[doc benway]

Liberation for me is to be free of attachments to things, ideas, images, people, goals and so forth.

To enjoy all of those things thoroughly when I choose but to have no need of any of it.

Liberation is the end of clinging and the beginning of happiness.

[33865_1494798762]

"What does profound, unobstructed liberation mean?"

 

It means that you have no referencepoint.

 

Its a blue room - Stillness is a mystery out of wich you will create the hole universe.

 

From now one we are one - and I salute you

Edited October 23, 2009 by Guest

[33865_1494798762]

Edited October 23, 2009 by Guest

[C T]

[33865_1494798762]

Edited October 23, 2009 by Guest

[C T]

[MayDay]

Hi all!

 

A friend asked me this question not so long ago - "What does profound, unobstructed liberation mean?"

 

Spontaneously, my reply was, "Its the moment when one arrives at the one-pointed state of absolute recognition of the empty, yet substantial nature of the arising, and waning, of all thought formations and perceptions.

 

In that state, all self-grasping and aversion subsides, and mind-stories give way to an awakened state of pure, pristine clarity where the * I * falls away together with all concepts and notions of the dualistic separation of self and other, subject and object, where words and descriptions and labels no longer hold any relevance.

 

At that moment of the uncontrived, unobstructed collapse of all projections (of mind), where one remains in spacious, non-fabricated, primordial awareness, one IS the liberation, or the divine union with the Self. The sense of re-tuning in, and returning to, one's true nature, to the Mother Womb, will have been complete".

If anyone care enough to share their thoughts and personal experiences here it would definitely make for interesting reading!

 

(Please note that the above observation was made shortly after completing a nine-year celibacy stint. Its not part of any tradition, nor instructions given by any guru or lineage-holder. It was a personal choice, one that was made with much fear and hope.)

 

Hi -

 

Profound, unobstructed liberation?

 

Is this a phase of nirvana you're describing? some kind of peace that the mind achieves in death?

 

It's the shedding away of everything grown dear to a human existence, is it? It's when all the colors that make up you, you, wash out to become this blend neutral nothing, right? Hm...sounds kinda boring.

 

And yet, whenever it's that profound, that must be some kind of compensation to make it all worthwhile. I am curious.

 

How do you seek such kind of profound, unobstructed liberation? If you're a prisoner, trapped in a cell somewhere, I'd understand the mind-hunger, but you stated, it's a personal choice.

 

I can't help myself. You're quite interesting.

[Tao99]

Hi -

 

Profound, unobstructed liberation?

 

Is this a phase of nirvana you're describing? some kind of peace that the mind achieves in death?

 

It's the shedding away of everything grown dear to a human existence, is it? It's when all the colors that make up you, you, wash out to become this blend neutral nothing, right? Hm...sounds kinda boring.

 

And yet, whenever it's that profound, that must be some kind of compensation to make it all worthwhile. I am curious.

 

How do you seek such kind of profound, unobstructed liberation? If you're a prisoner, trapped in a cell somewhere, I'd understand the mind-hunger, but you stated, it's a personal choice.

 

I can't help myself. You're quite interesting.

 

LOL. I don't know why but that reminded me of Stewy on Family Guy.

[Marblehead]

A memory just popped into my mind and I wanted to share it and this is a good place, I think, for it.

 

This is from a movie I saw a long time ago about the early days of America after the revolution and it has a scene where an advisor to the government went to an isolated fort and reported to the Fort Commander.

 

It seems that the commander was very unhappy with his assignment but was unable to get a transfer and he felt as though he was a prisoner at his assignment.

 

At the end of the conversation the commander said, "And you know what? I just pissed my pants and no one can do anything about it."

 

Sad when the only way one can express what little freedom they have left is to do something like that.

 

Peace & Love!

[C T]

Hi -

 

Profound, unobstructed liberation?

 

Is this a phase of nirvana you're describing? some kind of peace that the mind achieves in death?

 

It's the shedding away of everything grown dear to a human existence, is it? It's when all the colors that make up you, you, wash out to become this blend neutral nothing, right? Hm...sounds kinda boring.

 

And yet, whenever it's that profound, that must be some kind of compensation to make it all worthwhile. I am curious.

 

How do you seek such kind of profound, unobstructed liberation? If you're a prisoner, trapped in a cell somewhere, I'd understand the mind-hunger, but you stated, it's a personal choice.

 

I can't help myself. You're quite interesting.

Hi MayDay,

 

I see you do not post very much, so it is quite an honor (?) to have got your mention in here.

 

No seeking, and no non-seeking, therefore, no achievement, and no non-achievement.

 

I am looking forward to hear about your own personal experience in this regard, if you are so inclined.

[MayDay]

Hi MayDay,

 

I see you do not post very much, so it is quite an honor (?) to have got your mention in here.

 

No seeking, and no non-seeking, therefore, no achievement, and no non-achievement.

 

I am looking forward to hear about your own personal experience in this regard, if you are so inclined.

 

 

No seeking, one slap in the face

No non-seeking, another slap in the face

 

So the child asks, then what the hell am I supposed to do? I can't do anything to please you, he says.

 

If someone says that to you, how do you react?

 

For me, I would think someone who puts things in this form has been...abused. Because experience has done something to make him so uncertain as to his next move, he'd rather endure, and waste away the time in indecision than to throw the dice.

 

If I were you, I'd throw the dice, and see what the outcome is. Because knowing what the change is, you can then throw the dice again, because as long as you can throw the dice, you have the chance to see its next phase.

 

Waste it away, you come away with just a series of big fat questions.

 

Which might be pleasurable, to some people. But answers, buddy, answers are it. Not questions.

[C T]

 

No seeking, one slap in the face

No non-seeking, another slap in the face

 

So the child asks, then what the hell am I supposed to do? I can't do anything to please you, he says.

 

If someone says that to you, how do you react?

 

For me, I would think someone who puts things in this form has been...abused. Because experience has done something to make him so uncertain as to his next move, he'd rather endure, and waste away the time in indecision than to throw the dice.

 

If I were you, I'd throw the dice, and see what the outcome is. Because knowing what the change is, you can then throw the dice again, because as long as you can throw the dice, you have the chance to see its next phase.

 

Waste it away, you come away with just a series of big fat questions.

 

Which might be pleasurable, to some people. But answers, buddy, answers are it. Not questions.

 

 

Hi MayDay!

 

Thank you for the facial slaps! Good thing i am not into SM

 

What an ass i made of myself by mentioning that i have not read many of your posts, not realizing

how new you are! Welcome! And thank you for the passing interest! Rather presumptuous if i may say so, but that has nothing to do with how much i admire the imaginative content presentation, the manner of which almost oiled these ol'joints of mine, from the neck down to my toes, so to speak.

 

*Which might be pleasurable, to some people.* Hmm, i wonder what pleasures you... perhaps the feel of rolling them dice in your hands? Or the anticipation and the hunger for constant renewals of physical and mental phases? Or both? Answers, buddy, answers please!

Edited October 23, 2009 by CowTao

[Marblehead]

This is going to be interesting. A Buddhist and an adverturess in a discussion. I can hardly wait for the next round.

 

Peeace & Love!

Edited October 23, 2009 by Marblehead

[fragrant herbs]

I don't really believe in enlightenment or striving for this "illusive dream," as I wish to call it. Whenever I have met a so-called master that was claimed to be enlightened, I learned that I didn't wnat to be like them. Most that I met were greedy, into having affairs with their disciples, and into fame. And I used to think that meditation would cause a person to become more moral and therefore not wish to harm others. It doesn't.

 

Instead, I think "just being" is what is important. All this striving leads to nothing as far as I can tell. And when I read what enlightenment is supposed to be, by Hindus and Buddhists alike, it sounded so boring. Friedrich Nietzsche said it best when he said that he would rather choose eternally conscious suffering than nonexistence. And enlightenment seems like eternal nonexistence or just being blissed out.

[Vajrahridaya]

I don't really believe in enlightenment or striving for this "illusive dream," as I wish to call it. Whenever I have met a so-called master that was claimed to be enlightened, I learned that I didn't wnat to be like them. Most that I met were greedy, into having affairs with their disciples, and into fame. And I used to think that meditation would cause a person to become more moral and therefore not wish to harm others. It doesn't.

 

Instead, I think "just being" is what is important. All this striving leads to nothing as far as I can tell. And when I read what enlightenment is supposed to be, by Hindus and Buddhists alike, it sounded so boring. Friedrich Nietzsche said it best when he said that he would rather choose eternally conscious suffering than nonexistence. And enlightenment seems like eternal nonexistence or just being blissed out.

Funny interpretation, highly inaccurate... a kind of popular inaccuracy, but I can't help but get a laugh when I hear it every time I do.

 

Sorry, it's nothing against you... you probably just ran into some bad teachers and read some bad books.

[Marblehead]

Funny interpretation, highly inaccurate... a kind of popular inaccuracy, but I can't help but get a laugh when I hear it every time I do.

 

Sorry, it's nothing against you... you probably just ran into some bad teachers and read some bad books.

 

Well, I like his interpretation. So there!!!

 

Peace & Love!

[Vajrahridaya]

Well, I like his interpretation. So there!!!

 

Peace & Love!

 

Well, it's wrong, it's not actually what Buddhism or Hinduism teach. It's either the result of bad readings, or bad interpreting.

 

Enlightenment is nothing different from regular life, except your free from the bad stuff, even while you experience it. To put it very, very simply.

 

Also, absolutely everything is inspiring, not a darn thing can bring your state of mind down, there is no more sense of drab, or lack of inspiration. No more psychological suffering at all, and no more neurotic reactions, though one may play with it, there's no grasping to it, just dancing with it. The persons personality has reached it's highest potential of expression, inspiration and deep sense of freedom. No more sense of density. No more animating peanut butter as a body and no more intellectual or spiritual malaise... ever again!

[C T]

Funny interpretation, highly inaccurate... a kind of popular inaccuracy, but I can't help but get a laugh when I hear it every time I do.

 

Sorry, it's nothing against you... you probably just ran into some bad teachers and read some bad books.

 

Hi V! Thanks for the input. FH's feelings are totally reasonable within her own experiences - there are just too many out there who fits in with her description, unfortunately.

 

However, i do question her view that meditation leads to higher morals. What do you think?

 

@FH - You said that in your opinion all the striving leads to nothing. Within the limit of my own interpretation of this statement, i would say that to cultivate a good heart and to train the mind are necessarily fundamental to the serious Buddhist practitioner, which are very noble aspirations indeed, and definitely cannot be termed as *nothing*. It is very easy to see that such qualities would lead to much happiness and harmony, which i am sure you would agree we cannot have enough of. Unless we can tame this monkey mind of ours, the aim of *just being* can be quite a struggle, not impossible of course, but a challenge nonetheless.

 

BTW, liberation (a more appropriate term for me as compared to enlightenment) is anything but boring, because the very word itself says it all, dont you agree? And it definitely does not mean non-existence (god forbid lol). It simply means to kick-ass all our notions, ignorance, fears, and wrong views out the back door and mindfully keep them at bay until a new set of virtuous habits permeate our daily life. This, i assure you, is a real adventure, and one that can fulfill all our basic longing for freedom and emancipation.

 

Hope you find this helpful. I am sure there are many here who knows much more about the nitty-gritty stuff and who can go into all the specifics with you if you are so inclined to learn more of the authentic teachings.

 

Have a good weekend!