"Living Life as a Taoist?" (How can one do so?)

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Many people speak about "Life of a Taoist?" How can one live as a Taoist. What steps, beliefs, clothing, furniture, jobs and etc does one need in order to live "Life of a Taoist?". Thank you!

Edited October 20, 2009 by LeonBasin

[C T]

Many people speak about "Life of a Taoist?" How can one live as a Taoist. What steps, beliefs, clothing, furniture, jobs and etc does one need in order to live "Life of a Taoist?". Thank you!

 

 

Hi LB!

 

A similar thought crossed my mind a few years ago. Spoke to some friends and one recommended a book by Marsha Sinetar called *Ordinary People as Monks and Mystics*. Found it quite relevant in this context.

 

Personally i do wonder if it ever can be a defined 'life' - there are many out there whose *Tao* resides deep in their hearts, and have no apparent external marks, so to speak. At the other end of the spectrum, i have personally observed and met many whose outward displays are impeccable, but are so far away from being the genuine article! Perhaps you have had similar observations?

 

Regards,

 

CT

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Hello Ct,

 

Well, from what I have gathered, it seems like there is not much to "Living Life as a Taoist." It really resides in the mind. I do not think there is really external specifications. However, it does help one others share how they are "Living Life as a Taoist." I mean this forum specifically, has helped me change my mind and in return, everything I do externally seems to resonate through Tao. Does that make sense? What about you?

[33865_1494798762]

Many people speak about "Life of a Taoist?" How can one live as a Taoist. What steps, beliefs, clothing, furniture, jobs and etc does one need in order to live "Life of a Taoist?". Thank you!

It is very easy.

By eating, sleeping, fasting, fucking and deficating you will fulfill life in TAO.

[DalTheJigsaw123]

[wudangspirit]

Living life as a Taoist is living with your true spirit. Easy? Let's just say "challenging" instead of "hard". Can you really say you live with your true spirit? Do you love yourself and have you been able to walk with your feet planted firmly on Earth while your spirit guides you from heaven? Have you killed your ego enough to know who you truly are? Can you live now instead of in the past or the future?

 

Can you give up the need to know while knowing? Can you live life not giving in to desires that cloud your judgement and take power from you?

 

Can you jump with both feet into life and take part 150%? This is living YOUR TAO!

 

Many people speak about "Life of a Taoist?" How can one live as a Taoist. What steps, beliefs, clothing, furniture, jobs and etc does one need in order to live "Life of a Taoist?". Thank you!

[C T]

Hello Ct,

 

Well, from what I have gathered, it seems like there is not much to "Living Life as a Taoist." It really resides in the mind. I do not think there is really external specifications. However, it does help one others share how they are "Living Life as a Taoist." I mean this forum specifically, has helped me change my mind and in return, everything I do externally seems to resonate through Tao. Does that make sense? What about you?

 

 

Hello again LB!

 

You said "It really resides in the mind" - a slight agitation i had with this, hence the question, does it really reside in the mind? I am interested to hear where you have come from in this regard. (Would it be helpful to consider that the Tao that can reside *somewhere* is not the real Tao? )

 

Sharing is really cool LB. If not this forum would not have taken off! Personally, i tend to adhere to, and promote simplicity as a sustainable platform for spiritual cultivation, be it in intentions, thoughts, words and deeds. It seems to be a good way to travel, and after a few years, one can actually observe the gradual dissipation of all 'sense' desires. This i say from personal experience. I had, at the start of my path, thought that i have an immense need to accumulate as much *knowledge* as i can to arm myself for all the trials and challenges ahead, but i was completely fooled! It is actually how much *knowledge/rubbish* we can discard that really counts! Once we have this understanding firmly habituated, we can have the courage to let go of everything, and... flow. Could this be what is meant by Spiritual Warrior-ship?

 

Please share your thoughts on this.

 

Thank you.

[wudangspirit]

Excellent point! Diddo on that. That is precisely why I listed detachments then proceeded to say "give up the need to know". Simplicity isn't about what you have or do not have materially. It is about how you perceive what you have or do not have or even care.

 

Taoism is based on dialectic theory. See and do not see. You live so you have to see but you do not have to attach.

 

Hello again LB!

 

You said "It really resides in the mind" - a slight agitation i had with this, hence the question, does it really reside in the mind? I am interested to hear where you have come from in this regard. (Would it be helpful to consider that the Tao that can reside *somewhere* is not the real Tao? )

 

Sharing is really cool LB. If not this forum would not have taken off! Personally, i tend to adhere to, and promote simplicity as a sustainable platform for spiritual cultivation, be it in intentions, thoughts, words and deeds. It seems to be a good way to travel, and after a few years, one can actually observe the gradual dissipation of all 'sense' desires. This i say from personal experience. I had, at the start of my path, thought that i have an immense need to accumulate as much *knowledge* as i can to arm myself for all the trials and challenges ahead, but i was completely fooled! It is actually how much *knowledge/rubbish* we can discard that really counts! Once we have this understanding firmly habituated, we can have the courage to let go of everything, and... flow. Could this be what is meant by Spiritual Warrior-ship?

 

Please share your thoughts on this.

 

Thank you.

[Encephalon]

Hello again LB!

 

You said "It really resides in the mind" - a slight agitation i had with this, hence the question, does it really reside in the mind? I am interested to hear where you have come from in this regard. (Would it be helpful to consider that the Tao that can reside *somewhere* is not the real Tao? )

 

Sharing is really cool LB. If not this forum would not have taken off! Personally, i tend to adhere to, and promote simplicity as a sustainable platform for spiritual cultivation, be it in intentions, thoughts, words and deeds. It seems to be a good way to travel, and after a few years, one can actually observe the gradual dissipation of all 'sense' desires. This i say from personal experience. I had, at the start of my path, thought that i have an immense need to accumulate as much *knowledge* as i can to arm myself for all the trials and challenges ahead, but i was completely fooled! It is actually how much *knowledge/rubbish* we can discard that really counts! Once we have this understanding firmly habituated, we can have the courage to let go of everything, and... flow. Could this be what is meant by Spiritual Warrior-ship?

 

Please share your thoughts on this.

 

Thank you.

 

Deng Ming-Dao writes that the intellectual journey one takes should go from simple to complex, and then revert from complexity back to simplicity. We can still honor the joy of quenching our inquisitiveness and curiosity and still enjoy the big picture.

[Pietro]

Many people speak about "Life of a Taoist?" How can one live as a Taoist. What steps, beliefs, clothing, furniture, jobs and etc does one need in order to live "Life of a Taoist?". Thank you!

 

Hello Leon Basin.

Thanks for the question.

I enjoyed it immensely.

I found also quite interesting the answers, as if there was an answer to such question.

 

I think that if you keep on asking yourself this question, and keep on reading, and following people you feel have something to teach you, eventually you will find an answer that satisfy you.

 

So what I wanted to propose you is just a simple exercise. An exercise that will not make you live life as a taoist, but might make you live life a bit less as a non Taoist.

 

BtW, why do you want to live life as a Taoist? Don't you have enough troubles?

 

This exercise, this game, has some rules. Rules are important. So it is important that while you do the exercise you follow them.

First you need to ask yourself a question; here are some examples:

Should I make love with the girlfriend of my best friend?

or

Should I live as a Taoist?

 

Then you remain with the question, and find the answer. (yes/no/...whatever)

But then in life (as in journalism) the important is never the first question, but the second one...

And the second one is: why?

 

And I told you that there are rules.

and the rule is that as you answer the why question you are not allowed to refer to any authority figure. You cannot say because this book/this website/this text/this dream/this teacher/this guru... says ... .

Whatever a book, a website.... a guru says, you leave it alone.

The answer must not contain it.

 

This is how traditionally, in our school ethic is being trained.

 

Once you have the answer you change the question:

what if he is not my best friend?

what is I am angry with him?

what if she asks me to?

and what exactly does make love mean?

Does that imply penetration?

What if she wants it, she asks me, and we don't penetrate, but we look into the eyes, and let the energetic bodes copulate above?

 

And so on.

 

All this will not make you a Taoist, because honestly I don't think it is possible to become a Taoist, but might help you to drain some of the mud that covers you heart (nothing personal, we all have it), and let that internal wisdom that you have shine through. And when you have a connection to that... you will probably not ask yourself even how to become a Taoist.

 

With great respect,

Pietro

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Living life as a Taoist is living with your true spirit. Easy? Let's just say "challenging" instead of "hard". Can you really say you live with your true spirit? Do you love yourself and have you been able to walk with your feet planted firmly on Earth while your spirit guides you from heaven? Have you killed your ego enough to know who you truly are? Can you live now instead of in the past or the future?

 

Can you give up the need to know while knowing? Can you live life not giving in to desires that cloud your judgement and take power from you?

 

Can you jump with both feet into life and take part 150%? This is living YOUR TAO!

 

Good point not sure.

 

Hello again LB!

 

You said "It really resides in the mind" - a slight agitation i had with this, hence the question, does it really reside in the mind? I am interested to hear where you have come from in this regard. (Would it be helpful to consider that the Tao that can reside *somewhere* is not the real Tao? )

 

Sharing is really cool LB. If not this forum would not have taken off! Personally, i tend to adhere to, and promote simplicity as a sustainable platform for spiritual cultivation, be it in intentions, thoughts, words and deeds. It seems to be a good way to travel, and after a few years, one can actually observe the gradual dissipation of all 'sense' desires. This i say from personal experience. I had, at the start of my path, thought that i have an immense need to accumulate as much *knowledge* as i can to arm myself for all the trials and challenges ahead, but i was completely fooled! It is actually how much *knowledge/rubbish* we can discard that really counts! Once we have this understanding firmly habituated, we can have the courage to let go of everything, and... flow. Could this be what is meant by Spiritual Warrior-ship?

 

Please share your thoughts on this.

 

Thank you.

 

 

Wow, not sure. Let me get back to you:) Thank you for pointing that out.

 

Hello Leon Basin.

Thanks for the question.

I enjoyed it immensely.

I found also quite interesting the answers, as if there was an answer to such question.

 

I think that if you keep on asking yourself this question, and keep on reading, and following people you feel have something to teach you, eventually you will find an answer that satisfy you.

 

So what I wanted to propose you is just a simple exercise. An exercise that will not make you live life as a taoist, but might make you live life a bit less as a non Taoist.

 

BtW, why do you want to live life as a Taoist? Don't you have enough troubles?

 

This exercise, this game, has some rules. Rules are important. So it is important that while you do the exercise you follow them.

First you need to ask yourself a question; here are some examples:

Should I make love with the girlfriend of my best friend?

or

Should I live as a Taoist?

 

Then you remain with the question, and find the answer. (yes/no/...whatever)

But then in life (as in journalism) the important is never the first question, but the second one...

And the second one is: why?

 

And I told you that there are rules.

and the rule is that as you answer the why question you are not allowed to refer to any authority figure. You cannot say because this book/this website/this text/this dream/this teacher/this guru... says ... .

Whatever a book, a website.... a guru says, you leave it alone.

The answer must not contain it.

 

This is how traditionally, in our school ethic is being trained.

 

Once you have the answer you change the question:

what if he is not my best friend?

what is I am angry with him?

what if she asks me to?

and what exactly does make love mean?

Does that imply penetration?

What if she wants it, she asks me, and we don't penetrate, but we look into the eyes, and let the energetic bodes copulate above?

 

And so on.

 

All this will not make you a Taoist, because honestly I don't think it is possible to become a Taoist, but might help you to drain some of the mud that covers you heart (nothing personal, we all have it), and let that internal wisdom that you have shine through. And when you have a connection to that... you will probably not ask yourself even how to become a Taoist.

 

With great respect,

Pietro

 

That was really helpful. Let me go through this exercise and post it on here. Thank you!

[Marblehead]

Hi Guys,

 

Nice discussion. I have no answer so don't expect one in this post.

 

How does one live life as a Taoist? Taoism says we should live our life according to our true nature.

 

So what is our true nature? That's the big question, in my opinion.

 

Much has been said about knowledge and ridding oneself of knowledge. We should be careful with this thought.

 

Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu both suggested that we should rid ourself of false knowledge. That means we need to question all the crap we have been fed when we were you and discard everything that cannot be supported with examples we see in reality (nature).

 

But then, after we have trashed all the crap we are told to look to nature and observe and gain knowledge as to how the processes in nature (and all things, including man) actually proceed and progress and regress. This is the knowledge we need to insure our survival.

 

Then we must look inside ourself. We need to ask the question, "How do I feel about this (whatever)?" The process of understanding our own feelings is important because we need to avoid any thoughts that cause us internal comflict.

 

If we understand the processes in nature and understand that such an action will generally bring about such an action and if such an action causes internal conflict then such actions should be avoided.

 

Knowledge is good. It will help us avoid things that cause us internal conflict.

 

Okay, to Pietro's example: Should I make love with my best friend's girlfriend?

 

The questions should be asked: "How will I fell afterwards? How will she feel afterwards? How will my best friend feel if he finds out and does it matter how he feels?"

 

If you feel you will have no internal conflict afterwards, that she will have none, and that, if you value your relationship with your best friend and he would have no conflict if he found out then go gor it. Making love with her, if it is she who is initiating the desire, it will cause pleasure for yourself and her without causeing harm to your friendship with your best friend. Otherwise - leave it alone!

 

Remember, one of the important concepts in Taoism is to not cause unnecessary harm to others or to yourself.

 

But when we reach the state where we can respond intuititively in all aspects of life without causing ourself internal conflict then I suggest that we are close to Tao.

 

Peace & Love!

[Tao99]

Hi Guys,

 

Nice discussion. I have no answer so don't expect one in this post.

 

.... ...

 

But when we reach the state where we can respond intuititively in all aspects of life without causing ourself internal conflict then I suggest that we are close to Tao.

 

Peace & Love!

 

Hey Marble,

 

That was very well-written.

 

Have a good one.

Edited October 21, 2009 by Tao99

[DalTheJigsaw123]

This is an awesome thread. Would love to hear more.

[Marblehead]

This is an awesome thread. Would love to hear more.

 

 

More.

 

(Sorry. But you know me by now. Hehehe.)

 

Peace & Love!

[Pietro]

More.

 

(Sorry. But you know me by now. Hehehe.)

 

Peace & Love!

I was wondering how come you were here only for 6 months and already had 2000 posts,

 

 

hehe ;-)

 

Hugs,

Pietro

[JustARandomPanda]

I'd like to hear more too. I've been so busy studying Buddhism I've not had the time to check out Taoism but I plan to do so soon. I'm sure I could learn many things and it might give an interesting and new perspective with which to view Buddhism.

 

Also I would recommend Marble check out Lieh Tzu if he hasn't already.

[C T]

Maybe, just maybe, one of the better yardstick for self-observation, to see if we are genuinely living up to our own expectations, be it as a Taoist, or Buddhist, or what ever -ist one chooses to be, is to remove oneself from our familiar and comforting surrounds for a period of time (somehow 3 months come to mind - the basic timeframe recommended for those who are determined to venture into doing *serious* retreats) and then reflect on this question - Am i living life as a +++ist now, in this unfamiliar, fearful, strange and sometimes hostile environment? Perhaps go into the forest by yourself (like some of the monks in Thailand do) or find some deserted island to set up *home* for 2 maybe 3 months? Or simply live in a cardboard box off the streets, like some homeless vagabond? Its quite a challenge, and does take a fair amount of grit and determination. However, the outcome may just surprise you!!

 

Perhaps, exposed to such raw conditions, we are more able to observe our perspectives and priorities reflected in a myriad of differentiating circumstances, and if at the end of our *adventure* we are to find that our values and beliefs have remained steadfast, and have nurtured and sustained us thru this period, then we would have gained transcendent insight into this self-inquiry. Whether we *succeed* or not is not that important. What is, is the act of removing oneself from one's comfort zone, and begin a whole new (albeit temporary) side-path. We may be amazed, and transformed, by what we may encounter on this little sojourn.

 

Thank you for reading, and pondering.

[Marblehead]

Also I would recommend Marble check out Lieh Tzu if he hasn't already.

 

I actually have but it was only a scan so Ihave not done an in-depth reading of his work. I do have it bookmarked somewhere on the internet as I did plan to get back to it one day.

 

 

Thanks Pietro. You've been a big help. Hehehe.

 

See? I'm consolidating post so my post numbers don't increase too rapidly.

 

 

 

I gotta go read CowTao's post now.

 

C U Later!

 

EDIT to add: Thanks CowTao.

 

So anyhow. Leon or anyone, ask a qquestion or make a comment as I have no idea what y'all would like to talk about.

 

Peace & Love!

Edited October 21, 2009 by Marblehead

[C T]

I actually have but it was only a scan so Ihave not done an in-depth reading of his work. I do have it bookmarked somewhere on the internet as I did plan to get back to it one day.

Thanks Pietro. You've been a big help. Hehehe.

 

See? I'm consolidating post so my post numbers don't increase too rapidly.

I gotta go read CowTao's post now.

 

C U Later!

Thank you so much, Marblehead - for the welcome you showed a couple of days ago, and for the interest in my post. Much appreciated.

 

I have been following most of your recent writes - i find them very practical, down-to-earth, and the best thing i noticed is how you always get across as a nice, humble and warm kind of person. Thats really worth mentioning here, with due respect to LeonBasin, as this is kinda like his territory!

 

Cheers mate!

[Marblehead]

Maybe, just maybe, ...

 

I would agree that what you suggest would be an excellent in self-evaluation for those who are free enough to do so. I was lucky in spending 20 years in the Army and living in many different countries and cultures.

 

Peace & Love!

[Pietro]

I would agree that what you suggest would be an excellent in self-evaluation for those who are free enough to do so. I was lucky in spending 20 years in the Army and living in many different countries and cultures.

 

Peace & Love!

 

Marblehead,

you know, you keep on mentioning it...

you are really begging for the question...

 

please tell us more about your experience in the army,

what have you done, in what ways was it good, in what ways was it not so good?

What people have you met?

Reading your descriptions look like it was rather positive.

Yet most of us would rather practice standing for 8 hours straight than join the army for one month.

 

And still there is a long tradition of Taoists in the army. Some of the greatest generals, from Sun Tzu to one of the eight immortals. And of course there is a long trail of people teaching martial arts in the army. And an analysis of Mao strategies under the light of Taoism. And more. All this is there in the intersection between Taoism and the Military service.

And of course hexagram 7 is there too.

 

so, please, share with us this precious baggage you have so nicely advertised :-)

[Marblehead]

Marblehead,

you know, you keep on mentioning it...

you are really begging for the question...

 

please tell us more about your experience in the army,

what have you done, in what ways was it good, in what ways was it not so good?

What people have you met?

Reading your descriptions look like it was rather positive.

 

so, please, share with us this precious baggage you have so nicely advertised :-)

 

Hehehe. No, I really wasn't begging to be questioned concerning my military service but I am proud of it and am never bashful about talking about it.

 

After my schooling I did two tours in Germany, two in Korea, one in I taly and one in Vietnam. My stateside assignments were either at the Army Signal School (my skill was field communications) or with a highly tactical Infantry division.

 

It took me a very short time to realize that when I was off duty I did not want to remain on base so I started going off base. If I was allowed to own a vehicle I always bought one and travelled the countries close to where I was stationed. This was basically only in Germany and Italy. I learned German to the point of being very conversationally fluent. I learned Italian well enough to be able to get whatever I needed. My travel to other European countries was made easy and enjoyable because I had the three languages I could rely on.

 

In France, although I never learned the language save a few basic words, I always carried my English-French dictionary with me and whenever I needed anything I would pull out my dictionary and start searching for words and someone would always interupt me and bring someone over who spoke English. It was funny because it happened every time. They loved the fact that I was trying to speak their language and totally gave of themself without asking.

 

I have always tried to learn at least a few greeting phrases in the language of the country I was stationed. And I spent a lot of time trying to see as much of the country as I could and learn as much as I could about their culture.

 

Even in Korea and Vietnam I went off base as often as I could. Korea was fairly restricted and Vietnam was very restricted as far as where I could go but I still got out as often as I could and mingled with the people.

 

I found that nearly everyone, even the cold Germans, would open up if I showed that I was interested in them and their culture and music. I found that music is a very important aspect of a people's culture and they appreciate anyone who shows an interest.

 

I can honestly say that I never encountered anyone who hated me just because I am an American once I made conduct with them. My tour in Italy was filled with so many beautiful experiences I would never be able to express them all.

 

I was lucky that I had a couple assignments that were multi-national units, that is, the American unit had local military personnel assigned to the American unit, most generally for security support. It was quite an experience serving with these folks.

 

So, did that answer your questions?

 

Peace & Love!

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Maybe, just maybe, one of the better yardstick for self-observation, to see if we are genuinely living up to our own expectations, be it as a Taoist, or Buddhist, or what ever -ist one chooses to be, is to remove oneself from our familiar and comforting surrounds for a period of time (somehow 3 months come to mind - the basic timeframe recommended for those who are determined to venture into doing *serious* retreats) and then reflect on this question - Am i living life as a +++ist now, in this unfamiliar, fearful, strange and sometimes hostile environment? Perhaps go into the forest by yourself (like some of the monks in Thailand do) or find some deserted island to set up *home* for 2 maybe 3 months? Or simply live in a cardboard box off the streets, like some homeless vagabond? Its quite a challenge, and does take a fair amount of grit and determination. However, the outcome may just surprise you!!

 

Perhaps, exposed to such raw conditions, we are more able to observe our perspectives and priorities reflected in a myriad of differentiating circumstances, and if at the end of our *adventure* we are to find that our values and beliefs have remained steadfast, and have nurtured and sustained us thru this period, then we would have gained transcendent insight into this self-inquiry. Whether we *succeed* or not is not that important. What is, is the act of removing oneself from one's comfort zone, and begin a whole new (albeit temporary) side-path. We may be amazed, and transformed, by what we may encounter on this little sojourn.

 

Thank you for reading, and pondering.

 

 

This is a great suggestion. I'm going to look into this.

 

Thank you so much, Marblehead - for the welcome you showed a couple of days ago, and for the interest in my post. Much appreciated.

 

I have been following most of your recent writes - i find them very practical, down-to-earth, and the best thing i noticed is how you always get across as a nice, humble and warm kind of person. Thats really worth mentioning here, with due respect to LeonBasin, as this is kinda like his territory!

 

Cheers mate!

 

Nah, this is your territory too!

 

Marblehead - Maybe you can also suggest what your taoist living looks like now. Compared to when you were in the Army? Does that make sense?

[TianhuaQigong]

Taoist:

the final goal of Taoist is go to heaven, and became one of the greatest and powerful soul .

 

basically all the religion are same !!

 

the good thing of Taoist :

it has a written path step and step , to let you follow, to finish this Journey in a short cut.

and it has speak out the law and rule of universe in Philosophy.

 

 

in bible, it told you story , let you to imply the god's rule, those rules are "the law and rule of universe"

also , in church I have seen the good and useful way of practice is "prey for forgetness and say sorry ,applogize for what you have done wrong" later in Tao, Taoist will have to do the same from the bottom of heart/