Ocean/Sky/Heart Breathing DVD

[sean]

Was playing around with counterforce breathing last night, one of my favorite Winn practices and was prompted to poke around on Healing Tao USA when I came across the new Chi Kung Fundamentals 3 page. What's up with the Ocean/Sky/Heart Breathing DVD? When I ordered the "Best Buy" Chi Kung Fundamentals 3 and 4 audio and video packages, I guess about a year ago, it just came with one DVD. Is this now the DVD that comes with Chi Kung Fundamentals 4, and this Ocean/Sky/Heart Breathing DVD is something new? Anybody check it out yet?

 

I guess I could just write Winn but I figured I'd post here first, especially now that we got Jeremiah around.

 

Sean

[Jeremiah]

Hi, Sean,

 

We made the Ocean Sky and Great heart video for the funadmentals 3 so that both 3 and 4 would have thier own video. The form is one that Michael made up to do before he went to bed and night to clear a lot of stuff and cool everything down before sleep. We waited about 6 months before we taped it in his stone circle because he was still adjusting it. I don't know if anyone really knows how hard he works at all this stuff and studies constantly.

 

The original name was "The Mystical Power of 3" which i still like a lot, then "Blissfull Breathing" which is quite accurate then the Open Center in NYC wanted a more grounded name for his workshop there because they were getting tired of getting the wrap of a wu wu center so he named it Ocean, Sky and Great Heart Qigong, Blissfull Breathing Qigong. Gads.

 

So anyway it is repeats a bunch types of breathing stuff in patterens of 3. It's a nice form that really cools you down and is incredibly blissful as billed. When we do it in a room with say 30 people the space is cleared out in a way that rivals primordial. It's an alchemical form with many layers. Of all his forms this one is very complete and stands alone as well.

 

We're doing fundamentals 3 & 4 this coming weekend at lighten up yoga in Asheville for anyone in the area.

 

So yes, the old video would now be for Fundamentals 4 and the new Ocean, Sky and Great heart for Fundamentals 3.

 

Hope that helps :-)

 

[DanC]

...

Edited December 9, 2005 by DanC

[sean]

Mike, thank you for your thorough response. I think I'll check this one out.

 

Michael Winn is a fraud

DanC, per our insult guideline here please edit and revise your post. Intelligent critique is fine, let's not stoop to name calling.

 

My personal view is that there is definitely a big place for lineage, but all forms are ultimately "made up" by someone. Fetishizing ancestory for it's own sake just stifles innovation.

 

Sean

[GrandTrinity]

Very interesting, that must be amazing to do with 30 heads in a room. Esp with winn leading it and desribing the alchemical transformations. This is a rather advanced form, it seems to combine elements up the the highest level of taoist alchemy.

 

For this, I would consider it an authentic taoist practice with a modern "lineage" and I think its a ver interesting qigong, perhaps a bit "over my head" for now, but I will come back to it when I need to chill out and clear away ancestoral spirits and whatnot, lol...pretty heady.

[Jeremiah]

Yea, the problem with learning the breathing form is that you get so freekin blissed out during it you lose track of where you are. i've not heard anyone complain after having done the form for the first time and often hear people say it's thier favorite. yea anyone that has studied taoist alchmemy will see all the levels in it but like primordial you don't really have to understand it all to get a lot of benefit from it.

 

to answer cameron's question, i've done the classes thru greater kan & li with michael and then assumed another teacher which i'd rather not name for the rest of the formulas. i think this stuff is best learned via direct transmission with someone. i have to thank michael for working with me thru it to start, that includes the fundamentals maybe 8 times, fusion i dono 6 times or so & primordial maybe 6 as well. that's just the classes. i do practice all of this stuff and often teach. honestly joyce may be more of a teacher to me.

 

anyway cameron, there probably is too much information in the fundamentals. i know michael just throws this stuff out there so that people can resonate with what they like but i think is overwhelms a lot of people. to really get a handle on this stuff it's best to keep into the kan & li's which is were it all gets very interesting.

 

but it's all good, whatever you choose to do, do it with all your soul and you can't go wrong.

 

in our light :-)

 

 

[sean]

Michael Winn is a *%#$@

9695[/snapback]

Not good enough.

 

Daniel, the intention behind the guideline is to encourage people to speak honestly from personal experience. It's what this whole forum is about. If your direct, personal experience is that Michael Winn is literally a fraud, a person who deliberately distorts the truth in a malicious plan to trick others, mindfully start a new topic about it. If an unquestioned adherence to documented Chinese lineage is a requirement for your choice of Chi Kung teachers, and so American teachers like Michael Winn don't make the cut for you, start a new topic. In this case I think it's best you just remove the sentence above altogether because it's just an unncessary blanket insult serving no constructive purpose.

 

Sean

[freeform]

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Edited October 23, 2019 by freeform

[sean]

I prefer studying real Qigong masters like Yang Ming Jwing, Lam Kam Chuen, C.K Chu, Da Liu, Stephen Chang etc etc

9695[/snapback]

Dude. I'm not going to hand-hold you through this anymore. You know what I'm asking for. If you can't reframe your opinion intelligently we can escalate this no problem.

 

In cybernetics (the study of systems) you can have an 'open system' and a 'closed system'. If you follow a lineage system that practices only a set number of forms that have been practiced over generations (with no noticeale change) then that's a 'closed system'. A system with constant innovation (not just altering something that has been done for generations, but coming up with something new) - that's an 'open system'.

Great post freeform. I couldn't agree more. I think many may disagree with me, it's a loaded subject, but it's why I believe most all of the older "deadly" lineage martial arts just completely lack street cred and completely avoid competing in MMA events. Their skills have just become memorized theories from dead people and are barely if at all evolving anymore. Therefore they have become near irrelevant because of this exact closed-loop adherence. So if these lineage "masters" are clinging to highly highly inneffective fighting techniques, what's to say they are not doing the same with their internal chi kung? With their alchemy? It's like that guy that Cam posted a video for the other day. I personally just wouldn't be able to trust anything that guy is promoting.

 

It's a well known idea that a lot of people pursue spiritual paths as an excuse to have no standards. Because it's damn near impossible to measure this stuff. So like you, I'm actually more apt to listen to someone who is flexible (like the Tao) and capable of thinking outside the box and innovating new more relevant material to help us achieve what we are here for.

 

Sean

[sunshine]

Affenbrot yesterday lent me the book "The Magus of Java"... taken from the intro you read:

 

"In the oast a Chinese MAster never taught his apprentices 100 percent of his knowledge. Instead he retained, say, the foremost 10 percent for himself alone.

 

Perhaps he would write down the rest in a document for his favorite student, to be opened after his death...

 

The result of this approach was that the sum of each clan'S learning decreased by 10 percent with each generation, until some charismatic student was able to decipher the mystery and returnto the status of the original teacher, at which point the cycle went on with his students, and so forth...

 

The capabilities and exploits of the Masters became the stuff of legend, and later the storyline of the Chinese opera."

 

taker whatever you want from it

 

Harry

[DanC]

Sean I have deleted the whole post, are you happy now! Jeez whats with all the censorship, I came to Taobums because thats where most of the ex HT forum members now discussed Qigong/Meditation in an open forum..

I will try not to mention M Winn again....

 

Daniel

Edited December 9, 2005 by DanC

[Cameron]

This is actually an interesting point I think and goes to the root of a difference in attitude between differnt cultivators.

 

What Sean is trying to cultivate here, and what I am in agreement with, is an over all attitude of respect for different traditions and openess to agree or disagree but do it in a respectful way.

 

In other words, saying Michael Winn is a passionate and enthusuastic teacher but his stuff doesn't vibe with me personally over Michael Winn is full of shit.

 

Pretty simple really. However, there have been a number of people who have chosen to be disrespectful of others paths online over the years. Hell, Michael Winn himself has probably been somewhat disrespectful of other traditions in favor of his own so it is not too unforgiveable.

 

Personally, I think each tradition probably has it's own merits and it's not a one size fits all situation. You might also notice more than a couple people on here are students of Winn so to just come out dissing is not really going to set a good tone.

 

I am all for meaningful discussion but perhaps it would be better to talk about the philosophy or practices themselves rather than personal attacks? These personal attacks on people just seem ego driven to me and not really in harmony with genuine spiritual insight.

Edited December 9, 2005 by Cameron

[freeform]

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Edited October 23, 2019 by freeform

[sunshine]

Hey cool, I read that book recently... maybe after you've read your copy, Harry, we could start a new thread discussing some of the contents?!

9754[/snapback]

 

Absolutely!!!

 

 

& Dan... it's not about mentioning MW but the way how...

[sean]

Sean I have deleted the whole post, are you happy now! Jeez whats with all the censorship, I came to Taobums because thats where most of the ex HT forum members now discussed Qigong/Meditation in an open forum..

I will try not to mention M Winn again....

9746[/snapback]

Dan, you can dislike, talk about and and even critique the teachings of Michael Winn or anyone else and you can do so in depth. Like I said, if you really think Michael Winn is a fraud, in that he has somehow maliciously ripped off your time or money, talk about it. Just do so very mindfully. Speak from your heart. "Michael Winn makes me feel like __blank__. I personally don't trust Michael Winn because of __blank__. I prefer studying with other teachers because of __blank___." Or even better IMO "I don't get anything out of Michael Winn's work. It doesn't touch me. I get a lot more out of XYZ teachers." I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, just showing how you can channel your "dirty chi" stuck on an issue or a person that wants to shoot out as an attack or an insult into something higher, something more creative and more honest. This is a spiritual forum after all, not a street fight. We all have these pockets of volatile energy, it's natural. That energy that has us just so disgusted or angry with someone it gets to the point where we want to speak from authority, dismiss feelings, put people down, call them names or at least get our subtle jabs in. Every single person here, myself included, could just say "fuck it" and just start shooting off about what presses our buttons ... we hate this path and this guy is a dickhead and that lady is a dumb bitch, etc. My work here is to provide a balanced structure that promotes a smooth dynamic for everyone including you. Sometimes that will involve enforcing guidelines I believe are supportive of a growing community that includes people that just naturally don't like other members, practices, religions, teachers, even genders, countries and nationalities. It's not my business to change anyone. My job here is just simply to faciliate civilized communication here as best I can. I think the insult guideline is a good one in that spirit. And I think it's helped this community grow in a really positive way over the last several months.

 

 

Sean