Difficult situation...

[Mestena]

Hello all,

 

I'm new to this board, but have been studying Taoism for years.

 

I am currently dealing with a situation that is causing me much pain. I have been in love with a man for a few years, and we were engaged. However, this Summer we had some relationship issues that resulted in our breaking up and both of us were hurt pretty deeply. I was sure at the time that I never wanted to see him again, and made that very clear to him. We have been apart for about 3 months, and during our separation, we both worked to learn more about ourselves. He went to a very good, progressive therapist, who has also taught him transcendental meditation, and apparently he has made great strides in understanding himself mentally and emotionally. He is a very different, much more focused and grounded person these days. I, on the other hand, really threw myself into my spiritual practices and have learned alot about myself also. We are now working to heal the hurts we have experienced, and figure out how to make our relationship work again. Things are going very well, and we're both very happy, once again discussing having a future together and having a family. Here's the issue; While we were separated, his friends decided that they were going to make it their mission to get him over me and our relationship. So, he went out with his buddies one night, had some drinks, was introduced to a woman that his friends knew, and he had a one night stand. The contraception failed and she is now pregnant and refuses to consider an abortion, and has even begun speaking like she expects my partner to be in a relationship with her and be a parent with her. This is not going to happen. He has no desire to even see her again, much less raise a family with her. He hopes that she will make the decision to end the pregnancy, as she is not taking care of her health at all, doesn't seem to care that she's pregnant, and already has one young child that she neglects. He is, however, willing to raise the child himself if he can get custody (which is unlikely), or to take the responsibility and be a present father for that child with as little involvement with the mother as possible. I respect that, but the fact remains that it was a terrible mishap (in his words) and that the child will come into the world under a very difficult set of circumstances for all involved. I am very hurt by all of this, and know that my decision to be involved with the man I have loved for years will now require that I live with the results of his drunken decision for the rest of my life with him. I like to think that I am conscious enough to love any child without conditions, and not carry resentment toward a child that is without fault in the situation, but this is already proving to be VERY difficult for me. I am angry, I am hurt, and I am wondering how I will ever be able to be fully supportive of his being involved in this child's life. Already the mother is making attempts to get between he and I, and sabotage our relationship. I fear that this will never stop. What would you do?

 

Much thanks for any insight,

Mestena

[wudangspirit]

To be quite honest. You need to think with your spirit and not your emotions. Taoism teaches us to make clear decision based on the reality of the situation. Love is a very strong emotion and sometimes we can get very attached to it. However, you need to put it all into perspective by seeing what you love more. Your self and your health or the emotion itself.

 

I have a saying. "Learn from your past, to live in the present, to see you future." Can you do this?

 

From the sound of it, it seems you can already see your future clearly but it gets foggy when you attach to your emotions. See your future by living what life is telling you now.

 

Don't give up your power of your self. What decision you make now can effect the outcome of tomorrow. If you are already making spiritual gains on your own then you do not need to get into a confusing and energy draining situation if you are still growing. Stay disciplined in your own cultivation and my recommendation is not to go further in this relationship. The reality of it says it will lead to more hurt.

 

Tao Bless

 

Hello all,

 

I'm new to this board, but have been studying Taoism for years.

 

I am currently dealing with a situation that is causing me much pain. I have been in love with a man for a few years, and we were engaged. However, this Summer we had some relationship issues that resulted in our breaking up and both of us were hurt pretty deeply. I was sure at the time that I never wanted to see him again, and made that very clear to him. We have been apart for about 3 months, and during our separation, we both worked to learn more about ourselves. He went to a very good, progressive therapist, who has also taught him transcendental meditation, and apparently he has made great strides in understanding himself mentally and emotionally. He is a very different, much more focused and grounded person these days. I, on the other hand, really threw myself into my spiritual practices and have learned alot about myself also. We are now working to heal the hurts we have experienced, and figure out how to make our relationship work again. Things are going very well, and we're both very happy, once again discussing having a future together and having a family. Here's the issue; While we were separated, his friends decided that they were going to make it their mission to get him over me and our relationship. So, he went out with his buddies one night, had some drinks, was introduced to a woman that his friends knew, and he had a one night stand. The contraception failed and she is now pregnant and refuses to consider an abortion, and has even begun speaking like she expects my partner to be in a relationship with her and be a parent with her. This is not going to happen. He has no desire to even see her again, much less raise a family with her. He hopes that she will make the decision to end the pregnancy, as she is not taking care of her health at all, doesn't seem to care that she's pregnant, and already has one young child that she neglects. He is, however, willing to raise the child himself if he can get custody (which is unlikely), or to take the responsibility and be a present father for that child with as little involvement with the mother as possible. I respect that, but the fact remains that it was a terrible mishap (in his words) and that the child will come into the world under a very difficult set of circumstances for all involved. I am very hurt by all of this, and know that my decision to be involved with the man I have loved for years will now require that I live with the results of his drunken decision for the rest of my life with him. I like to think that I am conscious enough to love any child without conditions, and not carry resentment toward a child that is without fault in the situation, but this is already proving to be VERY difficult for me. I am angry, I am hurt, and I am wondering how I will ever be able to be fully supportive of his being involved in this child's life. Already the mother is making attempts to get between he and I, and sabotage our relationship. I fear that this will never stop. What would you do?

 

Much thanks for any insight,

Mestena

[Smile]

You must accept my advise as just an opinion of a man that doesn't want to do anything with kids.

 

For your boyfriend: I would clearly state to a pregnant girl that I'm against this pregnancy and want nothing to do with her or the baby. If she wants to give birth, it will be her problem and she will be forced to take care of the kid herself. She would also have to go through court to get the child support and she will be lucky if I'm still in this country by the time they will award her any money.

 

I know this kind of advise is not exactly a compassionate choice, but I'm all about free will. Your BF clearly doesn't want this baby but the girl uses the situation to her advantage to get him in the relationship and dependency. This shit should be considered blackmail, but unfortunately the laws in this country make it impossible to have any equal rights if you are dealing with babies.

 

Hopefully if he is strong enough about his message, it will scare her enough to go with abortion. Otherwise, it is certainly his decision to be a part of his new baby's life. It seems though that right from the start you are having problems with the pregnant lady, so I don't see anything good coming out of this. Wish you all the best though.

Edited October 21, 2009 by Smile

[Marblehead]

Hi Mestena,

 

Both the post from Wudangspirit and Smile are valid considerations.

 

If the pregnant lady does not abort then you BF will be legally bound to provide support for the child. The other woman will become a part of your life whether you want it that way or not.

 

If he did indeed father the child (pregnancy) then I believe he is responsible for his action.

 

You have choices and from what you said none of them are very attractive at the moment. It has always been my opinion that we should attend to ourself first. That is, always try to position ourself so that we might find peace and contentment in our life.

 

So I guess the question would be: Which will cause you the greatest amount of pain? Giving up your BF and finding another or giving yourself up to the whims of this other woman?

 

Best Wishes!

 

Peace & Love!

[Mestena]

Thank you all for your advice and insights...

 

I did a reading with the I-Ching this afternoon, regarding this matter. The changing line said "The husband leaves the mother and does not return, the mother carries a child but does not bring it forth." I have never used the I-Ching for future predictions, but that seems straight forward to me. The hexagram was 53, Gradual Advance, with the 3rd line changing.

[z00se]

I have had a different but kind of similar kind of situation. I chose to stay with the girl.

 

I really like the girl. I haven't found another girl that i like this much since i was 16 years old - now i'm 27. I figure it could be a long time before i find another girl i like as much as this one, maybe too late. It's not easy to just find another girl. I want to be with someone who i really love and makes me feel awesome. Most girls don't do that.

 

It does cause some trouble with the other bloke being around and i don't like it. It's not perfect, but what relationship is. At least the bloke doesn't try to get her away from me and i trust her in that way.

[wudangspirit]

Mestena,

 

When you are in an emotional state you can manifest the outcome of I Ching. It is better to have an I Ching master do that for you. Your postheaven intelligence can "read between the lines" and your reading will not be correct.

 

Thank you all for your advice and insights...

 

I did a reading with the I-Ching this afternoon, regarding this matter. The changing line said "The husband leaves the mother and does not return, the mother carries a child but does not bring it forth." I have never used the I-Ching for future predictions, but that seems straight forward to me. The hexagram was 53, Gradual Advance, with the 3rd line changing.

[lino]

Hello all,

 

I'm new to this board, but have been studying Taoism for years.

 

I am currently dealing with a situation that is causing me much pain. I have been in love with a man for a few years, and we were engaged. However, this Summer we had some relationship issues that resulted in our breaking up and both of us were hurt pretty deeply. I was sure at the time that I never wanted to see him again, and made that very clear to him. We have been apart for about 3 months, and during our separation, we both worked to learn more about ourselves. He went to a very good, progressive therapist, who has also taught him transcendental meditation, and apparently he has made great strides in understanding himself mentally and emotionally. He is a very different, much more focused and grounded person these days. I, on the other hand, really threw myself into my spiritual practices and have learned alot about myself also. We are now working to heal the hurts we have experienced, and figure out how to make our relationship work again. Things are going very well, and we're both very happy, once again discussing having a future together and having a family. Here's the issue; While we were separated, his friends decided that they were going to make it their mission to get him over me and our relationship. So, he went out with his buddies one night, had some drinks, was introduced to a woman that his friends knew, and he had a one night stand. The contraception failed and she is now pregnant and refuses to consider an abortion, and has even begun speaking like she expects my partner to be in a relationship with her and be a parent with her. This is not going to happen. He has no desire to even see her again, much less raise a family with her. He hopes that she will make the decision to end the pregnancy, as she is not taking care of her health at all, doesn't seem to care that she's pregnant, and already has one young child that she neglects. He is, however, willing to raise the child himself if he can get custody (which is unlikely), or to take the responsibility and be a present father for that child with as little involvement with the mother as possible. I respect that, but the fact remains that it was a terrible mishap (in his words) and that the child will come into the world under a very difficult set of circumstances for all involved. I am very hurt by all of this, and know that my decision to be involved with the man I have loved for years will now require that I live with the results of his drunken decision for the rest of my life with him. I like to think that I am conscious enough to love any child without conditions, and not carry resentment toward a child that is without fault in the situation, but this is already proving to be VERY difficult for me. I am angry, I am hurt, and I am wondering how I will ever be able to be fully supportive of his being involved in this child's life. Already the mother is making attempts to get between he and I, and sabotage our relationship. I fear that this will never stop. What would you do?

 

Much thanks for any insight,

Mestena

 

You are already ruling out that it may not be his kid.

 

If this woman has "one night stands" then she could have done the same thing

the day before or the day after. He might be getting caught for a sucker.

[Deepbluesea]

Hello all,

 

I'm new to this board, but have been studying Taoism for years.

 

I am currently dealing with a situation that is causing me much pain. I have been in love with a man for a few years, and we were engaged. However, this Summer we had some relationship issues that resulted in our breaking up and both of us were hurt pretty deeply. I was sure at the time that I never wanted to see him again, and made that very clear to him. We have been apart for about 3 months, and during our separation, we both worked to learn more about ourselves. He went to a very good, progressive therapist, who has also taught him transcendental meditation, and apparently he has made great strides in understanding himself mentally and emotionally. He is a very different, much more focused and grounded person these days. I, on the other hand, really threw myself into my spiritual practices and have learned alot about myself also. We are now working to heal the hurts we have experienced, and figure out how to make our relationship work again. Things are going very well, and we're both very happy, once again discussing having a future together and having a family. Here's the issue; While we were separated, his friends decided that they were going to make it their mission to get him over me and our relationship. So, he went out with his buddies one night, had some drinks, was introduced to a woman that his friends knew, and he had a one night stand. The contraception failed and she is now pregnant and refuses to consider an abortion, and has even begun speaking like she expects my partner to be in a relationship with her and be a parent with her. This is not going to happen. He has no desire to even see her again, much less raise a family with her. He hopes that she will make the decision to end the pregnancy, as she is not taking care of her health at all, doesn't seem to care that she's pregnant, and already has one young child that she neglects. He is, however, willing to raise the child himself if he can get custody (which is unlikely), or to take the responsibility and be a present father for that child with as little involvement with the mother as possible. I respect that, but the fact remains that it was a terrible mishap (in his words) and that the child will come into the world under a very difficult set of circumstances for all involved. I am very hurt by all of this, and know that my decision to be involved with the man I have loved for years will now require that I live with the results of his drunken decision for the rest of my life with him. I like to think that I am conscious enough to love any child without conditions, and not carry resentment toward a child that is without fault in the situation, but this is already proving to be VERY difficult for me. I am angry, I am hurt, and I am wondering how I will ever be able to be fully supportive of his being involved in this child's life. Already the mother is making attempts to get between he and I, and sabotage our relationship. I fear that this will never stop. What would you do?

 

Much thanks for any insight,

Mestena

 

That sucks. I can certainly understand your anger and pain. You also have the option of doing nothing. Relax, let the situation unfold on its own. Don't get married, don't break up, don't lay down any ultimatums, try as best you can to relax your emotions. Just let things be. If she does have the child, there is really no way he can't have some type of relationship with it (unless you go Smile's route) and necessarily with her, and you will be brought into it. Be as objective as you can be, don't try and guess or be afraid of the future. When you have a bad month, say to yourself, "This is not a healthy situation, if it doesn't improve I may have to separate myself from it." And continue to go on as objectively as possible. Just don't try and push the situation around. Per Stigward's recommendation, read Chapter 1 of the Tao Te Ching out loud twice a day, I think it speaks very well to your situation. Best wishes and Love.

 

... and by the way, it sounds like your boyfriend hangs out with a great bunch of guys ...

[mYTHmAKER]

I would contact Dan Savage, He writes a column "Savage Love"

His advice is usually right on.

You can email him at: [email protected]

[Biff]

Love is unconditional. If he is disabled, with child whatever the inconvenience to you. It's unconditional. At least true love is. All I see in what you write is emotion.

 

If he had a one night stand then he must accept the responsibility of his actions. You put out several accusations against the mother of this baby yet have you even met her? You claim she seems not to care about being pregnant but refuse to consider abortion. Does that add up? Who has asked her to consider abortion? is it the same person that you mention would happily take custody of the child? are you saying that the deal is, unless I can have the child kill it?

 

You say he has stated that he wants no involvement with the mother. But it was ok to sleep with her? use her? then tell her to kill her child? Perhaps you have not given all the fact. Or perhaps you are not aware of them. At this point it is him that sounds like someone that needs a lesson on raising a child.

 

I see nothing but selfishness and jealousy in your message. I'm sorry but you asked, it's my view. You cannot blame his friends for getting him drunk, or anything else. Trying to find an out in Taoism is useless too. In your state it hardly seems appropriate for either of you to decide the fate of a child life based on personal convenience. The mother has chosen to carry that child for 9 months and take care of it. If he is not going to man up and take responsibility then he's not much of a man in my book. Do you have kids?

 

So why do you think it's unlikely he would get custody?

[lino]

Hello all,

 

I'm new to this board, but have been studying Taoism for years.

 

I am currently dealing with a situation that is causing me much pain. I have been in love with a man for a few years, and we were engaged. However, this Summer we had some relationship issues that resulted in our breaking up and both of us were hurt pretty deeply. I was sure at the time that I never wanted to see him again, and made that very clear to him. We have been apart for about 3 months, and during our separation, we both worked to learn more about ourselves. He went to a very good, progressive therapist, who has also taught him transcendental meditation, and apparently he has made great strides in understanding himself mentally and emotionally. He is a very different, much more focused and grounded person these days. I, on the other hand, really threw myself into my spiritual practices and have learned alot about myself also. We are now working to heal the hurts we have experienced, and figure out how to make our relationship work again. Things are going very well, and we're both very happy, once again discussing having a future together and having a family. Here's the issue; While we were separated, his friends decided that they were going to make it their mission to get him over me and our relationship. So, he went out with his buddies one night, had some drinks, was introduced to a woman that his friends knew, and he had a one night stand. The contraception failed and she is now pregnant and refuses to consider an abortion, and has even begun speaking like she expects my partner to be in a relationship with her and be a parent with her. This is not going to happen. He has no desire to even see her again, much less raise a family with her. He hopes that she will make the decision to end the pregnancy, as she is not taking care of her health at all, doesn't seem to care that she's pregnant, and already has one young child that she neglects. He is, however, willing to raise the child himself if he can get custody (which is unlikely), or to take the responsibility and be a present father for that child with as little involvement with the mother as possible. I respect that, but the fact remains that it was a terrible mishap (in his words) and that the child will come into the world under a very difficult set of circumstances for all involved. I am very hurt by all of this, and know that my decision to be involved with the man I have loved for years will now require that I live with the results of his drunken decision for the rest of my life with him. I like to think that I am conscious enough to love any child without conditions, and not carry resentment toward a child that is without fault in the situation, but this is already proving to be VERY difficult for me. I am angry, I am hurt, and I am wondering how I will ever be able to be fully supportive of his being involved in this child's life. Already the mother is making attempts to get between he and I, and sabotage our relationship. I fear that this will never stop. What would you do?

 

Much thanks for any insight,

Mestena

 

First,

 

I wonder if a biopsy on the embryo for a DNA test can be done.

 

Second,

 

Before he did it, he should have looked at what he did from a "health aspect".

Whether it was catching some sort of "VD" or having 18-22, maybe even 25 years

of PAIN raising a child, to include having a relationship with somebody he might

not want in his life.

[Mestena]

Many good points to consider...Thanks for the advice.

 

The situation is this now; The due date doesn't add up. She claims she conceived this child, with my partner, on a day when she was menstruating. I've spoken to a couple of fertility specialists who all agreed that though not impossible, it is VERY unlikely for conception to occur at that time, and that if conception does occur, it is due to a very rare medical condition that would make it almost impossible for her to carry to full term. However, in the time frame that she would have been fertile (10 to 14 days after her menstrual cycle), apparently she was back in bed with her ex-boyfriend, but swears it can't be his child. Also, so far she has conveniently 'forgotten' or missed her ultrasound appointments, which would set a pretty solid conception date. Also, when my partner told her that he and I were speaking again and trying to work our relationship out, she came unglued, screamed at him that he was a "lunatic to be with me" and has no right to be speaking with me again. My instincts scream opportunism, as she is homeless and jobless, and my partner is affluent and generally keeps his life together. Also, her doctor just announced that the due date is June 12, which means she's only 4 weeks along. My partner was with her over 2 months ago. It can't be his.

 

As far as finding an out in Taoism, I'm not sure what you mean by this. It is true that I am angry and hurt in this situation, but I don't feel that being a spiritual person or a student of Taoism makes one immune to emotion in a situation like this. I am experiencing many strong emotions right now, and I embrace that and have been actively looking for the personal lessons being provided for me here. I am not looking for an out; simply spiritual and emotional support from a group that I felt would lend it with little or no judgement, and perhaps give me some words of wisdom to help me find a more spiritual center in this storm. I feel that I have opportunities here to learn about loving unconditionally, letting go of judgement, trusting the Tao, and living in the moment. These lessons are not coming easily to me right now, however, and I thought that maybe someone here could give me a signpost or two to send me in that direction. I have received that, and I appreciate it. I feel much more stillness in the situation.

 

Blessings,

Mestena

[lino]

Many good points to consider...Thanks for the advice.

 

The situation is this now; The due date doesn't add up. She claims she conceived this child, with my partner, on a day when she was menstruating. I've spoken to a couple of fertility specialists who all agreed that though not impossible, it is VERY unlikely for conception to occur at that time, and that if conception does occur, it is due to a very rare medical condition that would make it almost impossible for her to carry to full term. However, in the time frame that she would have been fertile (10 to 14 days after her menstrual cycle), apparently she was back in bed with her ex-boyfriend, but swears it can't be his child. Also, so far she has conveniently 'forgotten' or missed her ultrasound appointments, which would set a pretty solid conception date. Also, when my partner told her that he and I were speaking again and trying to work our relationship out, she came unglued, screamed at him that he was a "lunatic to be with me" and has no right to be speaking with me again. My instincts scream opportunism, as she is homeless and jobless, and my partner is affluent and generally keeps his life together. Also, her doctor just announced that the due date is June 12, which means she's only 4 weeks along. My partner was with her over 2 months ago. It can't be his.

 

As far as finding an out in Taoism, I'm not sure what you mean by this. It is true that I am angry and hurt in this situation, but I don't feel that being a spiritual person or a student of Taoism makes one immune to emotion in a situation like this. I am experiencing many strong emotions right now, and I embrace that and have been actively looking for the personal lessons being provided for me here. I am not looking for an out; simply spiritual and emotional support from a group that I felt would lend it with little or no judgement, and perhaps give me some words of wisdom to help me find a more spiritual center in this storm. I feel that I have opportunities here to learn about loving unconditionally, letting go of judgement, trusting the Tao, and living in the moment. These lessons are not coming easily to me right now, however, and I thought that maybe someone here could give me a signpost or two to send me in that direction. I have received that, and I appreciate it. I feel much more stillness in the situation.

 

Blessings,

Mestena

 

See, never rule out that she might be a ho.

 

I hope that you made your boyfriend submit to a VD check before you even considered getting back with him.

Edited October 22, 2009 by lino

[Smile]

Sounds good, Mestena. It looks more and more as a scam on her part.

As for Biff's comments about being a man and taking a responsibility for actions, I would say the abortion is the most responsible thing to do. The irresponsible thing would be to go against the free will of one of the people involved, and bring a baby into a loveless home of the unwed mother who can't even support herself and has an emotional stability of a 10 year old.

Some people make a mistake and equate a bunch of cells in the uterus of a woman to a human being. It has a potential of becoming human, it's true, but there is no spirit yet. The spirit/soul will come into play in later days of at most 2 months before the birth, coming into the body and going out as it pleases. It eventually secures itself in the body right before the birth.

[wudangspirit]

The biggest lesson in Taoism is see situations for what they really are. If you love him that is good but his bad judgment has created a bad situation.

 

One thing to consider is this. I am not sure if he ever considered getting back with you while you were separated but if he did then why would he put himself and you in this situation? That is something real to look at.

 

If at the break up point the two of you said you'd work on yourselves with the intention of getting back together at some point, not to sure his intentions were good if he could risk losing you permanently over a one night stand. His friends and drunkeness didn't make him do it. He made his own decision.

 

Something to also think about.

 

 

 

Many good points to consider...Thanks for the advice.

 

The situation is this now; The due date doesn't add up. She claims she conceived this child, with my partner, on a day when she was menstruating. I've spoken to a couple of fertility specialists who all agreed that though not impossible, it is VERY unlikely for conception to occur at that time, and that if conception does occur, it is due to a very rare medical condition that would make it almost impossible for her to carry to full term. However, in the time frame that she would have been fertile (10 to 14 days after her menstrual cycle), apparently she was back in bed with her ex-boyfriend, but swears it can't be his child. Also, so far she has conveniently 'forgotten' or missed her ultrasound appointments, which would set a pretty solid conception date. Also, when my partner told her that he and I were speaking again and trying to work our relationship out, she came unglued, screamed at him that he was a "lunatic to be with me" and has no right to be speaking with me again. My instincts scream opportunism, as she is homeless and jobless, and my partner is affluent and generally keeps his life together. Also, her doctor just announced that the due date is June 12, which means she's only 4 weeks along. My partner was with her over 2 months ago. It can't be his.

 

As far as finding an out in Taoism, I'm not sure what you mean by this. It is true that I am angry and hurt in this situation, but I don't feel that being a spiritual person or a student of Taoism makes one immune to emotion in a situation like this. I am experiencing many strong emotions right now, and I embrace that and have been actively looking for the personal lessons being provided for me here. I am not looking for an out; simply spiritual and emotional support from a group that I felt would lend it with little or no judgement, and perhaps give me some words of wisdom to help me find a more spiritual center in this storm. I feel that I have opportunities here to learn about loving unconditionally, letting go of judgement, trusting the Tao, and living in the moment. These lessons are not coming easily to me right now, however, and I thought that maybe someone here could give me a signpost or two to send me in that direction. I have received that, and I appreciate it. I feel much more stillness in the situation.

 

Blessings,

Mestena

[Pietro]

Sounds good, Mestena. It looks more and more as a scam on her part.

As for Biff's comments about being a man and taking a responsibility for actions, I would say the abortion is the most responsible thing to do. The irresponsible thing would be to go against the free will of one of the people involved, and bring a baby into a loveless home of the unwed mother who can't even support herself and has an emotional stability of a 10 year old.

Some people make a mistake and equate a bunch of cells in the uterus of a woman to a human being. It has a potential of becoming human, it's true, but there is no spirit yet. The spirit/soul will come into play in later days of at most 2 months before the birth, coming into the body and going out as it pleases. It eventually secures itself in the body right before the birth.

 

 

Max, you surprise me. You mean that when you are near a pregnant woman you don't feel there are two human beings in front of you?

[Deepbluesea]

Well it sounds like things may be coming together for you hopefully. It sounds like there are questions about the conception date, but as far as menstruation and ovulation go (and I am so, so, so, so far away from knowing anything about this), I have a friend that has two (fantastic, yet unintended daughters) that were both conceived two days after her period.

 

Even if all of this goes away, it still looks to me like you have a lot of work to do with your relationship (as we all do). All any of us got was a snapshot of your guy, but as others have mentioned, his judgment and choice of friends sound a little on the iffy side. Off the top of my head I would say that someone that makes little mistakes here and there -- a couple of times a year -- is much preferred to someone that makes terrible mistakes or judgmental lapses infrequently. And he absolutely can't blame his friends, he is responsible for his own decisions, but birds of a feather ... The actual failure rate of condoms (after throwing out sabotage and lies is less than one percent) possible, but slim chance.

 

If only every guy was as great as me ... (just kidding) we all have our faults, we all do dumb-ass things, but he put you in a horrible position. I would say to look closely at him and his judgment as a potential long-term partner. Is he a politician by chance?

 

Interesting ideas about the spirit, Smile. I like it, any sources?

[Smile]

Max, you surprise me. You mean that when you are near a pregnant woman you don't feel there are two human beings in front of you?

It's a complicated answer Pietro. All depends on the person, the time of the day, the month of pregnancy, etc. Do not forget the energy cords developing and connecting the growing baby to the father and the mother. There is no question about the visible glow around the mother, and the energy around the baby in the later months. The question is can you separate the spirit of the baby among all the other energy "strands"? From my observations of pregnant women around me, there is a BIG difference in the "presence" of the baby between 2nd month of pregnancy and the 7th-9th. The expression comes to mind "Lights are flashing, but no train in sight". I'm not sure if you have the"inner eye" to see the heart spirit, but to me this is what would finally make the baby human, and it's the last one that gets in the body. Also, if the couple is very loving and nurturing with strong energies, the baby spirit(s) get together in their new "home" much earlier then normal, because of all that love. A very wonderful thing to see.

 

It may sounds like I'm an ass for being so rational about a precious miracle of pregnancy, hehehe, but sorry guys, I care more about the free will of the alleged father then about the unoccupied embryo.

[Biff]

The irresponsible thing would be to go against the free will of one of the people involved

 

The people really involved, who actually have a say in the 'potential' life of newborn baby, are the parents. It sounds like the mother does not want to kill the baby, so to do so would be irresponsible.

 

bring a baby into a loveless home of the unwed mother who can't even support herself and has an emotional stability of a 10 year old.

 

How do you know this is fact? do you know this lady? or are you recommending to end life after some comments in a post? the fact that she wants to keep her child says volumes to me. It also says something when someone can be so quick to take a life. You needed little persuation it seems. Just someones bias opinion.

 

It has been stated that 'she is homeless and jobless, and my partner is affluent and generally keeps his life...' I just wonder if he had that in mind when he was pumping his cock into her. It must have been at his house if she is homeless with no job. How did she become acquainted with his friends? The statements that have been made regarding his attitude towards her indicate that he has much disregard for her. I wonder if that came about after he bust his nut and wiped his knob off with a towel. Perhaps that is why she went back to her ex? is that wrong? he went back to his ex.

 

He hopes that she will make the decision to end the pregnancy

 

Well I think he should take responsibility and at least find out if it's his before he tries to get her to kill the baby.

 

she is not taking care of her health at all

 

Was that a concern when he was deep inside her vagina gazing into her eyes?

 

He is, however, willing to raise the child himself if he can get custody (which is unlikely)

 

Not sure why it's unlikely if she is homeless and he has his shit together? If he wants custody then why does he want her to kill the baby? so keep or kill? seems a bit childish to me. 'I will only take care of the baby if I get it. But you go ahead and carry if for nine months I don't give a fuck about you. Otherwise kill it'

 

I am very hurt by all of this, and know that my decision to be involved with the man I have loved for years will now require that I live with the results of his drunken decision for the rest of my life with him.

 

Boo hoo! shall we call a whaaaaaaambulance? you told us you said to him you were finished? make your mind up lady. It's a tragedy that the woman he fucked and has potentially gotten pregnant and is in the way of your happiness. Let me tell you that if he was sober enough to pull his penis out and insert it into her and keep pumping until he filled her with cream... he knew just what he was doing. In fact, it sounds quite calculated. First they were introduced, then he went and fucked her. Now he wants nothing to do with her when she is pregnant? that is weird eh?

 

I understand you are hurt. But you must get over yourself and have some sympathy for the woman who now has a child and wants to keep it. She was good enough for your boyfriend to fuck so whats his problem now? I doubt he did it right there in the bar. They probably spent time together, had a drink and chat. Then went back and had a kiss and a cuddle. Then he fucked her. If she got pregnant and she is the bad lady you paint her to be.. do you think he should have an STD check? I bet he's stuck you a few times so you better get one too. He might have even licked her vagina, who knows.

 

It's easy for him. He does not have to carry the child for nine months. If he does not want the responsibility he should not go around fucking 'unhealthy homeless women' The mother of this child is a human being and so is the child. So in fact are homeless people. Or are they just clumps of cells?

 

 

 

I care more about the free will of the alleged father then about the unoccupied embryo.

 

That fact that you have not even mentioned the mother in your equation says it all.

[doc benway]

Hi Mestena,

Thank you for sharing this story so openly

A few thoughts -

You do not need this boyfriend in your life to be happy.

Happiness does not come from other people - that's an illusion.

When you depend on another for happiness, you're creating a trap for both of you.

You are perfectly capable of living a fulfilling life without him.

Once you are comfortable in that understanding, then and only then choose whether you want to continue to be with him.

 

Regarding his one drunken mistake. It will not be the last. We all make mistakes - more than once.

If you choose to be with him, you will need to live with the consequences of his mistakes and he with yours.

If you feel so strongly for each other that you would choose to spend the rest of your lives together and raise a family, dealing with the child from another brief relationship will be just one of many challenges you will face. Believe me, there are much worse things (and much better things) to come.

 

Anything can happen - she may miscarry, she may win the lottery and disappear from your lives, this may all be a lie, the child may prove to be the light of your lives. Life is never predictable.

 

Try not to worry too much about tomorrow, just choose whether or not you want to be with him today.

Talk to him, look into his eyes, make love, have dinner... just live for now and see what happens.

[lino]

Also, her doctor just announced that the due date is June 12, which means she's only 4 weeks along. My partner was with her over 2 months ago. It can't be his.

 

If she keeps on then look at two possibilities:

 

1. Your boyfriend lied.

 

2. Conspiracy to defraud.

 

A lot of the time a guy, after going through something like this, is so relieved that it is over that he doesn't look at the damage that it did to his life. A lot of women get a free pass even after failing to try to pull a fast one. If a pattern is established where guys are suing for damages and trying to press criminal charges then stuff like this wouldn't be happening.

Edited October 23, 2009 by lino

[Smile]

That fact that you have not even mentioned the mother in your equation says it all.

If she is blackmailing the guy with her vagina, why should I? Maybe to you it makes sense that a 10 minute consensual fuck between two adults is justified for her to hook him up for 18 years of financial slavery. Not to me...

[Mestena]

Wudangspirit: When we broke up, it was over...OVER over...Never want to speak to you again, changed my phone number kind of over. I had absolutely no intention of being involved with him again, and I made that crystal clear to him. When he acted as he did, it was with the knowledge that he'd never see me again, and that his actions would never affect me. Well, things changed. During our separation, I watched as he found an ambition that he had never had before...He became very spiritual, he got himself into three-times-per-week counseling to work through some very heavy childhood issues that he was carrying around (which had been our biggest stumbling block and the reason for our separation), he began training in martial arts, which he had always talked about but never found the time for. I spoke to his therapist before I made my first contact with him (apparently he had told her that if I ever called, she could speak to me), and she gave me a glowing report regarding his emotional progress. She said that she honestly felt that they could discontinue their sessions soon, that he was a dramatically different person, and that he had resolved the biggest issues that were impeding his life. Since I've been involved with him again, I have found this to be absolutely true. The decision he made to have that one-nighter happened when he was in a very different place mentally and emotionally. There has been alot of growth.

 

Deepbluesea: The friends he was hanging out with, unfortunately, were some of my old friends from school that I had introduced him to a few months before we broke up, because he didn't have many male friends. I thought it would be good if he spent some time with the guys from time to time, because he said that he felt male companionship was missing from his life, and he had a hard time finding men to befriend because he worked in a female-dominated job. I didn't think that my old friends would make the suggestions that they made...Ouch! I guess men stick together before thinking about a female friend's feelings, right? This girl is the sister of a girl I knew briefly, that spent some time with this group of guys.

 

Steve f: Thank you for your words. You are right in saying that I don't need him for fulfillment or happiness. I learned that during our separation, and had a wonderful time on my own. My life has become quite full, and I've picked up many things that I had wanted to do for some time, but never seemed to find time to do. I decided that I wanted him to be around again BECAUSE I felt fulfilled and happy and wanted to share that with the man I loved, and still love, perhaps even more deeply now.

 

Lino: The timeline he has given me is true...I've asked around and have been told by a few people that know her and her family that she was in town when my guy says they were together, and that the very next day after the fling, she went back to her hometown 400 miles away and has not come back. She went back to her ex and the father of her other child. I've done my fact checking and he has been completely honest here.

 

Biff: Ouch, guy! Come on now...Speak your mind, but leave the graphic details out. I love this man and it HURTS to get those mental images. As far as her level of responsibility, there is very little in sight. I am not simply trusting the word of my partner on this; I have heard voice mails and read emails from her where she flat out refused to take prenatal vitamins at my partner's urging, she refused to cut back on her tobacco use even a little because, "I already had one miscarriage, why even bother trying to protect this one?", and she has alluded to continued drug use while pregnant. She is the woman that leaves her young child in an idling car in the bar parking lot for four hours...

 

Regarding the 'keep it or kill it' comment; he doesn't want custody...He doesn't want the child at all, but if it's proven that it is his and she refuses to abort the pregnancy, effectively sticking him with this, he will take the responsibility that he needs to take, pay his child support, and be actively involved in the child's life, or take it away from her if the situation requires. He was talking about the possibility of getting custody, because judging by the way she treats her other child (neglect and abuse), she has no business raising another one. Neither he, nor I, would want to subject any child to her parenting practices from what I understand about them. She makes a habit of leaving her child with strangers while she goes out to party, she thinks that corporal punishment is necessary and desired, and she has a VERY quick and explosive temper. However, it is almost impossible for the father to get custody in this state.

 

And no, I don't have much sympathy for this woman. Judging by her words and actions, she doesn't really 'want' this baby...She wants a free ride, financial support, and CONTROL, and if she has to have this child to get it, by god, that's what she'll do. She wants someone to support her and her previous child, because apparently that daddy is falling down on the job. She won't get a job, because she "doesn't want to", but she DOES want my partner to provide financial support and she does want her friends to feed her and shelter her and pay her bills for her. She's seeing money signs here, not motherly love...Guaranteed. Talk about calling the whaaaaaaaaaaambulance...Whaaaah...I have responsibilities but I JUST DON'T want to get a job....I'd rather sit on the couch, smoke pot all day, and let this guy take care of me and my children...

 

And, I have his negative STD test in hand. He's scheduled for another in a few weeks, and we're using protection until at least 6 months have passed. I'm in love, but not in denial.

 

____________________________________________________________________

 

So, the latest update is this: I called around and spoke to a few OB/GYN's today, who were all in agreement that the chances of this baby being his are slim to none, especially in light of her due date being declared to be June 12, which would mean a September 19th conception...On September 19th she was 400 miles away, with the father of her other child, who she has admittedly been sleeping with. The advice I was given was that he should take NO responsibility in this until she proves that he has some, which doesn't seem to be very likely. He called her today and told her that until she presented him with a paternity test, he would have no more involvement with the situation or with her. Burden of proof is on her. He told her that she could go get an in-utero paternity test as early as 6 weeks into the pregnancy, and that if she did, and it was proven to be his child, he'd take over the doctor's bills and begin his support. Well, she very angrily refused to take that test, though it is pretty safe. Now, if she was sure it was his, and knew she could prove it, wouldn't she simply get tested immediately and put the results in his hand instead of getting defensive, launching an attack on him (and ME!!!), and hanging up on him, which is what she did?

[z00se]

He told her that she could go get an in-utero paternity test as early as 6 weeks into the pregnancy, and that if she did, and it was proven to be his child, he'd take over the doctor's bills and begin his support. Well, she very angrily refused to take that test, though it is pretty safe. Now, if she was sure it was his, and knew she could prove it, wouldn't she simply get tested immediately and put the results in his hand instead of getting defensive, launching an attack on him (and ME!!!), and hanging up on him, which is what she did?

 

*Sings* She's a gold digger.... yes indeeeeeeed!