Difficult situation...

[lino]

 

So, the latest update is this: I called around and spoke to a few OB/GYN's today, who were all in agreement that the chances of this baby being his are slim to none, especially in light of her due date being declared to be June 12, which would mean a September 19th conception...On September 19th she was 400 miles away, with the father of her other child, who she has admittedly been sleeping with. The advice I was given was that he should take NO responsibility in this until she proves that he has some, which doesn't seem to be very likely. He called her today and told her that until she presented him with a paternity test, he would have no more involvement with the situation or with her. Burden of proof is on her. He told her that she could go get an in-utero paternity test as early as 6 weeks into the pregnancy, and that if she did, and it was proven to be his child, he'd take over the doctor's bills and begin his support. Well, she very angrily refused to take that test, though it is pretty safe. Now, if she was sure it was his, and knew she could prove it, wouldn't she simply get tested immediately and put the results in his hand instead of getting defensive, launching an attack on him (and ME!!!), and hanging up on him, which is what she did?

 

Now all your boyfriend has to do is make it known to her that he has intentions of pressing criminal charges and suing for damages. The better if this goes Nationwide.

[wudangspirit]

Good to hear that. One thing that I am questioning in your statement.... If it was over over then how did you come to see the changes in him? So really it wasn't over over. Just looking at the facts. I am not trying to get you to break it off because it seems you do love him that was never a question. However, the emotion of love can sometime blind us.

 

Wudangspirit: When we broke up, it was over...OVER over...Never want to speak to you again, changed my phone number kind of over. I had absolutely no intention of being involved with him again, and I made that crystal clear to him. When he acted as he did, it was with the knowledge that he'd never see me again, and that his actions would never affect me. Well, things changed. During our separation, I watched as he found an ambition that he had never had before...He became very spiritual, he got himself into three-times-per-week counseling to work through some very heavy childhood issues that he was carrying around (which had been our biggest stumbling block and the reason for our separation), he began training in martial arts, which he had always talked about but never found the time for. I spoke to his therapist before I made my first contact with him (apparently he had told her that if I ever called, she could speak to me), and she gave me a glowing report regarding his emotional progress. She said that she honestly felt that they could discontinue their sessions soon, that he was a dramatically different person, and that he had resolved the biggest issues that were impeding his life. Since I've been involved with him again, I have found this to be absolutely true. The decision he made to have that one-nighter happened when he was in a very different place mentally and emotionally. There has been alot of growth.

 

Deepbluesea: The friends he was hanging out with, unfortunately, were some of my old friends from school that I had introduced him to a few months before we broke up, because he didn't have many male friends. I thought it would be good if he spent some time with the guys from time to time, because he said that he felt male companionship was missing from his life, and he had a hard time finding men to befriend because he worked in a female-dominated job. I didn't think that my old friends would make the suggestions that they made...Ouch! I guess men stick together before thinking about a female friend's feelings, right? This girl is the sister of a girl I knew briefly, that spent some time with this group of guys.

 

Steve f: Thank you for your words. You are right in saying that I don't need him for fulfillment or happiness. I learned that during our separation, and had a wonderful time on my own. My life has become quite full, and I've picked up many things that I had wanted to do for some time, but never seemed to find time to do. I decided that I wanted him to be around again BECAUSE I felt fulfilled and happy and wanted to share that with the man I loved, and still love, perhaps even more deeply now.

 

Lino: The timeline he has given me is true...I've asked around and have been told by a few people that know her and her family that she was in town when my guy says they were together, and that the very next day after the fling, she went back to her hometown 400 miles away and has not come back. She went back to her ex and the father of her other child. I've done my fact checking and he has been completely honest here.

 

Biff: Ouch, guy! Come on now...Speak your mind, but leave the graphic details out. I love this man and it HURTS to get those mental images. As far as her level of responsibility, there is very little in sight. I am not simply trusting the word of my partner on this; I have heard voice mails and read emails from her where she flat out refused to take prenatal vitamins at my partner's urging, she refused to cut back on her tobacco use even a little because, "I already had one miscarriage, why even bother trying to protect this one?", and she has alluded to continued drug use while pregnant. She is the woman that leaves her young child in an idling car in the bar parking lot for four hours...

 

Regarding the 'keep it or kill it' comment; he doesn't want custody...He doesn't want the child at all, but if it's proven that it is his and she refuses to abort the pregnancy, effectively sticking him with this, he will take the responsibility that he needs to take, pay his child support, and be actively involved in the child's life, or take it away from her if the situation requires. He was talking about the possibility of getting custody, because judging by the way she treats her other child (neglect and abuse), she has no business raising another one. Neither he, nor I, would want to subject any child to her parenting practices from what I understand about them. She makes a habit of leaving her child with strangers while she goes out to party, she thinks that corporal punishment is necessary and desired, and she has a VERY quick and explosive temper. However, it is almost impossible for the father to get custody in this state.

 

And no, I don't have much sympathy for this woman. Judging by her words and actions, she doesn't really 'want' this baby...She wants a free ride, financial support, and CONTROL, and if she has to have this child to get it, by god, that's what she'll do. She wants someone to support her and her previous child, because apparently that daddy is falling down on the job. She won't get a job, because she "doesn't want to", but she DOES want my partner to provide financial support and she does want her friends to feed her and shelter her and pay her bills for her. She's seeing money signs here, not motherly love...Guaranteed. Talk about calling the whaaaaaaaaaaambulance...Whaaaah...I have responsibilities but I JUST DON'T want to get a job....I'd rather sit on the couch, smoke pot all day, and let this guy take care of me and my children...

 

And, I have his negative STD test in hand. He's scheduled for another in a few weeks, and we're using protection until at least 6 months have passed. I'm in love, but not in denial.

 

____________________________________________________________________

 

So, the latest update is this: I called around and spoke to a few OB/GYN's today, who were all in agreement that the chances of this baby being his are slim to none, especially in light of her due date being declared to be June 12, which would mean a September 19th conception...On September 19th she was 400 miles away, with the father of her other child, who she has admittedly been sleeping with. The advice I was given was that he should take NO responsibility in this until she proves that he has some, which doesn't seem to be very likely. He called her today and told her that until she presented him with a paternity test, he would have no more involvement with the situation or with her. Burden of proof is on her. He told her that she could go get an in-utero paternity test as early as 6 weeks into the pregnancy, and that if she did, and it was proven to be his child, he'd take over the doctor's bills and begin his support. Well, she very angrily refused to take that test, though it is pretty safe. Now, if she was sure it was his, and knew she could prove it, wouldn't she simply get tested immediately and put the results in his hand instead of getting defensive, launching an attack on him (and ME!!!), and hanging up on him, which is what she did?

[Smile]

He called her today and told her that until she presented him with a paternity test, he would have no more involvement with the situation or with her. Burden of proof is on her.

Unfortunately, the burden is on him. If it's her word against his, the judges commonly award the child support. I've even heard cases where they award child support when the child is not his. I would call a lawyer for a free consultation and he could say what the best way would be to proceed with this. Edited October 23, 2009 by Smile

[nectar]

Wudangspirit: When we broke up, it was over...OVER over...Never want to speak to you again, changed my phone number kind of over. I had absolutely no intention of being involved with him again, and I made that crystal clear to him. When he acted as he did, it was with the knowledge that he'd never see me again, and that his actions would never affect me. Well, things changed. During our separation, I watched as he found an ambition that he had never had before...He became very spiritual, he got himself into three-times-per-week counseling to work through some very heavy childhood issues that he was carrying around (which had been our biggest stumbling block and the reason for our separation), he began training in martial arts, which he had always talked about but never found the time for. I spoke to his therapist before I made my first contact with him (apparently he had told her that if I ever called, she could speak to me), and she gave me a glowing report regarding his emotional progress. She said that she honestly felt that they could discontinue their sessions soon, that he was a dramatically different person, and that he had resolved the biggest issues that were impeding his life. Since I've been involved with him again, I have found this to be absolutely true. The decision he made to have that one-nighter happened when he was in a very different place mentally and emotionally. There has been alot of growth.

 

my feelings are that spiritual growth/emotional development/ consciousness/getting over childhood issues blah blah does not just happen, even if one is doing martial arts, therapy 3 x per week. I also find it extremely unprofessional of his therapist - sorry but what kind of therapist would give a "glowing report"on a client after a few months (sorry I am not sure of the timing here, but I'm gathering it's not years) - pardon me, and maybe I'm a slow processor...but I continue my path as I have done for the past 18 years - daily meditation, weekly therapy, chi kung..etc etc...and I still have much to resolve. Allow this man his process (which clearly involves/d this other woman and possibly their unborn-child) - in time, when the veils lift, you will have a far clearer idea of what the Universe intends for you as a couple. It feels to me like you need to take a step back and allow this journey of his karma to be his, not yours.

 

Time is a beautiful thing....

[fiveelementtao]

My .02...

You are focusing waaaay too much on this woman and other people in general. Focus on you. That is all you have control over. As far as I understand your situation, you were broken up with him at the time. What he did when you were broken up is absolutely NONE of your business. His relationship with the woman is none of your business. His work with his therapist is none of your business. Worrying about other people will drive you crazy and distract you from YOUR issues and feelings..... I understand that you still have alot of feelings about what he did and it is difficult to simply turn your feelings off. However, it is still none of your business. The woman has every right to make her own choice about what to do with the child. Whether or not it is his child is again none of your business. If you love him as you say you do, then your responsibility is to accept him with all his baggage. Your only responsibility is to do your best to relate to him from a place of consciousness. You can be there for him as a friend and lover through his difficulties. but what happened and continues to happen between him and the mother of his (possibly) child is none of your business and you need to stay out of it. For YOUR own happiness. If it turns out to be his child, and you wish to stay in his life, then the only option is to love that child as best you can and stay out of his relationship with her as the parent of THEIR child. I know it is not easy, but it is the only option. If you feel that you are not able to stay neutral about the child, the woman and his actions while you were broken up, then you may need to consider whether you are able to stay in a relationship with him and find a partner that has a more manageable life situation. If that is not an option for you, then the only option is to use the situation to learn how to let go of others and focus on what YOU can do for others and yourself... as long as the actions of others bother you, relationships will always be challenging.

Bottom line... Focus on YOU and not them.... Look at your need to control others and base your happiness on the actions of others. Focus on how to be more self-sufficient.. that is your lesson as I see it...

again just my incomplete, imperfect .02...

good luck...

[Mestena]

Wudangspirit: I have worked for his parents for about 2 years now, and when he and I split up, I kept my job. It was a bit uncomfortable, but jobs are very scarce here and I couldn't afford to be unemployed for any length of time, so I stayed on. I was able to ask his father about him every now and then, which is how I knew what was going on.

 

Nectar: The type of therapy he has been attending is called Neurofeedback. When I first heard about it's effectiveness, I was very skeptical, as I have had some training in Gestalt talk therapy and Jungian analysis...Talk therapy which takes YEARS. I thought there could be no such thing as a silver bullet for the unbalanced psyche, but I have become convinced. In Neurofeedback therapy, you learn how to actually change the chemistry of your own brain, connect neural pathways that are low functioning, and calm areas of the brain that are overactive. It's extremely powerful, and quick. Generally a client needs only 20 hours of neurofeedback to become self sustaining and leave the therapist. There are a whole host of issues that can be resolved with this therapy, including PTSD. They have taken soldiers with extreme cases of PTSD and in as little as 2 or 3 sessions, all symptoms and manifestations of the disorder disappear and never come back, and that person is able to function normally in society. It is almost like magic. In the case of my partner, one of his most serious issues was continuous childhood bond breaks, which resulted in his not being able to bond or empathize as an adult very well. This is an emotional issue, but more importantly, it is a neurological issue, and has been addressed in his therapy with outstanding results. He also had parts of his brain that were overactive and firing too fast/too often, which resulted in his having racing thoughts, inability to sleep, bouts of fear/paranoia, inability to control sexual urges, binge drinking, bi-polar swings, impulsiveness etc etc. These were the issues that broke us up originally, and also the state of mind he was in when he met that woman. I was sure at that time that he would never change, as it was a chemical imbalance and couldn't be fixed by even the most talented talk therapist or, god forbid, medication. That's why I left and told him it was over for good. But then, he began seeing this therapist and it all changed, very rapidly and very obviously. The issues are GONE...Not hidden, not repressed, not covered up for my benefit, but GONE...totally...The guy is quiet, introspective, centered, in control, thinking clearly...All the parts of him that I fell in love with are still there, maybe even more dominant now, but the other stuff has disappeared. He has had so far about 18 hours of Neurofeedback, and his therapist said that a few more sessions and he will be finished, and that it requires no renewal sessions in the future. The changes in brain function are permanant, and there is no chance of a backslide.

 

 

fiveelementtao: Oh you are so correct in that statement...It is very hard for me to step back when someone I care about is going through 'stuff'. I tend to forget that I'm part of the equation and instead worry about helping the other person through, while sacrificing myself emotionally. The reason I have taken so much of this on and gotten so involved is that I am very afraid. I am afraid that I am not a big enough person to love that child without resentment. Though I can rationally convince myself that the child is not at fault in this, my emotions are a different story. It feels like the existence of this child would be a constant reminder of a very painful period in my life, and a period in my partner's life that we both want to leave in the past. I want to be with him, but I don't know that I could be with him, along with another woman, and a child that's not mine. I don't know that I have that kind of strength. I like to think I do, and that I could forgive and love without condition in that situation, but I don't know that for sure. I just don't want this other woman to have any bearing on my decisions in this relationship. It shouldn't be about her, it should be about my partner and I and whether we want to build a future together. She was a 10 minute mistake, he and I have been together for years, yet her presence might determine the outcome of this relationship? That is something I have a hard time accepting. I do love him, but I'm afraid I might hurt him by not being able to be totally supportive here...On the other hand, I know that the universe never sends me a lesson that I'm not prepared to handle, and that since I am having this experience, it must be in my life script to do so. I don't believe that anything happens without a purpose, but that doesn't stop me from swimming against the current sometimes when I am too afraid of being carried away.

Edited October 23, 2009 by Mestena

[hagar]

You are on a spiritual path. Take that path seriously.

 

I have deep empathy for your situation, yet the gravity of it may force you to look beyond your emotions. They are, in the end, only that. But to do so, you must fully accept them.

 

What lies within this situation may be the very thing that can bring you see your true nature. So the best thing is really to look beyond what is hurting, what is suffering,and right into the vast space that accepts everything.

 

But the most important thing to do before deciding anything:

 

Ask the baby

 

h

[wudangspirit]

Gotcha. Okay. Makes sense. I guess you just have to see the situation for what it really is and if you are accepting of it to a point where it doesn't really bother you then you can grow together. However, I hope he has moved on beyond being careless and having one night stands. If he has great.

 

Wudangspirit: I have worked for his parents for about 2 years now, and when he and I split up, I kept my job. It was a bit uncomfortable, but jobs are very scarce here and I couldn't afford to be unemployed for any length of time, so I stayed on. I was able to ask his father about him every now and then, which is how I knew what was going on.

 

Nectar: The type of therapy he has been attending is called Neurofeedback. When I first heard about it's effectiveness, I was very skeptical, as I have had some training in Gestalt talk therapy and Jungian analysis...Talk therapy which takes YEARS. I thought there could be no such thing as a silver bullet for the unbalanced psyche, but I have become convinced. In Neurofeedback therapy, you learn how to actually change the chemistry of your own brain, connect neural pathways that are low functioning, and calm areas of the brain that are overactive. It's extremely powerful, and quick. Generally a client needs only 20 hours of neurofeedback to become self sustaining and leave the therapist. There are a whole host of issues that can be resolved with this therapy, including PTSD. They have taken soldiers with extreme cases of PTSD and in as little as 2 or 3 sessions, all symptoms and manifestations of the disorder disappear and never come back, and that person is able to function normally in society. It is almost like magic. In the case of my partner, one of his most serious issues was continuous childhood bond breaks, which resulted in his not being able to bond or empathize as an adult very well. This is an emotional issue, but more importantly, it is a neurological issue, and has been addressed in his therapy with outstanding results. He also had parts of his brain that were overactive and firing too fast/too often, which resulted in his having racing thoughts, inability to sleep, bouts of fear/paranoia, inability to control sexual urges, binge drinking, bi-polar swings, impulsiveness etc etc. These were the issues that broke us up originally, and also the state of mind he was in when he met that woman. I was sure at that time that he would never change, as it was a chemical imbalance and couldn't be fixed by even the most talented talk therapist or, god forbid, medication. That's why I left and told him it was over for good. But then, he began seeing this therapist and it all changed, very rapidly and very obviously. The issues are GONE...Not hidden, not repressed, not covered up for my benefit, but GONE...totally...The guy is quiet, introspective, centered, in control, thinking clearly...All the parts of him that I fell in love with are still there, maybe even more dominant now, but the other stuff has disappeared. He has had so far about 18 hours of Neurofeedback, and his therapist said that a few more sessions and he will be finished, and that it requires no renewal sessions in the future. The changes in brain function are permanant, and there is no chance of a backslide.

fiveelementtao: Oh you are so correct in that statement...It is very hard for me to step back when someone I care about is going through 'stuff'. I tend to forget that I'm part of the equation and instead worry about helping the other person through, while sacrificing myself emotionally. The reason I have taken so much of this on and gotten so involved is that I am very afraid. I am afraid that I am not a big enough person to love that child without resentment. Though I can rationally convince myself that the child is not at fault in this, my emotions are a different story. It feels like the existence of this child would be a constant reminder of a very painful period in my life, and a period in my partner's life that we both want to leave in the past. I want to be with him, but I don't know that I could be with him, along with another woman, and a child that's not mine. I don't know that I have that kind of strength. I like to think I do, and that I could forgive and love without condition in that situation, but I don't know that for sure. I just don't want this other woman to have any bearing on my decisions in this relationship. It shouldn't be about her, it should be about my partner and I and whether we want to build a future together. She was a 10 minute mistake, he and I have been together for years, yet her presence might determine the outcome of this relationship? That is something I have a hard time accepting. I do love him, but I'm afraid I might hurt him by not being able to be totally supportive here...On the other hand, I know that the universe never sends me a lesson that I'm not prepared to handle, and that since I am having this experience, it must be in my life script to do so. I don't believe that anything happens without a purpose, but that doesn't stop me from swimming against the current sometimes when I am too afraid of being carried away.

[Deepbluesea]

Wow, that neurofeedback stuff is pretty incredible. Sounds like bf was fixed right up, real quick. I'm just pissed that I've been wasting my time with all this longterm meditation bullshit, dealing with my issues slowly and progressing slowly with a dedicated hour-a-day for years. And all that reading! God, I wished I had heard about this previously. I'm surprised you came to this board with your problem as opposed to just heading off to bf's therapist to get rewired in a couple of sessions. Where do I sign up.

 

I have seen very few people change over the years. Just had my 20th high school reunion where I reconnected with a lot of folks I hadn't seen in 20 years. Pretty much they all had the same proclivities that they had 20 years ago. Same great features, same problems. The people that I have known that have changed have made very long term commitments to lifestyle changes. The change is slow and incremental.

 

I sincerely wish you the best Mastena, I really do and my thoughts and blessings are with you. Sometimes when things appear to be to good to be true, they often are.

 

I'm sorry for my cynicism and skepticism, but this kind of reminds my of Atkins diet, South Beach diet, etc ...

[C T]

You are on a spiritual path. Take that path seriously.

 

I have deep empathy for your situation, yet the gravity of it may force you to look beyond your emotions. They are, in the end, only that. But to do so, you must fully accept them.

 

What lies within this situation may be the very thing that can bring you see your true nature. So the best thing is really to look beyond what is hurting, what is suffering,and right into the vast space that accepts everything.

 

But the most important thing to do before deciding anything:

 

Ask the baby

 

h

Words of true wisdom from a deeply reflective mind IMO.

 

I share the belief regarding acceptance, with all my heart, and i sincerely hope Mestena can see a way into her own wisdom light, and find the gentleness and compassion to allow for this quality to shine through.

 

@ Mestena - I am not in any position to offer you advice, so please accept my apologies. Perhaps an attempt to do so at this juncture may serve more as a hindrance. All i can wish for you is to have the courage and patience to remain steadfast in the goodness of your own heart.

 

Very often, when emotions are wild, we tend to forget to be grateful for all the gifts that are still abundantly offered to us daily despite our challenges. Perhaps it would be helpful to focus a little on these. It can at least give you some space to appreciate that there is still beauty around you. This is my only humble suggestion.

 

All the best to you,

 

CT

[Pietro]

My .02...

You are focusing waaaay too much on this woman and other people in general. Focus on you. That is all you have control over. As far as I understand your situation, you were broken up with him at the time. What he did when you were broken up is absolutely NONE of your business. His relationship with the woman is none of your business. His work with his therapist is none of your business. Worrying about other people will drive you crazy and distract you from YOUR issues and feelings..... I understand that you still have alot of feelings about what he did and it is difficult to simply turn your feelings off. However, it is still none of your business. The woman has every right to make her own choice about what to do with the child. Whether or not it is his child is again none of your business. If you love him as you say you do, then your responsibility is to accept him with all his baggage. Your only responsibility is to do your best to relate to him from a place of consciousness. You can be there for him as a friend and lover through his difficulties. but what happened and continues to happen between him and the mother of his (possibly) child is none of your business and you need to stay out of it. For YOUR own happiness. If it turns out to be his child, and you wish to stay in his life, then the only option is to love that child as best you can and stay out of his relationship with her as the parent of THEIR child. I know it is not easy, but it is the only option. If you feel that you are not able to stay neutral about the child, the woman and his actions while you were broken up, then you may need to consider whether you are able to stay in a relationship with him and find a partner that has a more manageable life situation. If that is not an option for you, then the only option is to use the situation to learn how to let go of others and focus on what YOU can do for others and yourself... as long as the actions of others bother you, relationships will always be challenging.

Bottom line... Focus on YOU and not them.... Look at your need to control others and base your happiness on the actions of others. Focus on how to be more self-sufficient.. that is your lesson as I see it...

again just my incomplete, imperfect .02...

good luck...

Thank you. I have been following this thread from the incipit. You gave words to my feelings. I fully support your statement.

Pietro