Enlightenment V.S. The End of Suffering

[rebelrebel]

Jiddu Krishnamurti once said

 

"You may say: 'I'm full of love, I'm full of truth, I'm full of knowledge, I'm full of wisdom.' I say: 'That's all nonsense. Do you behave? Are you free of fear? Are you free of ambition, greed, envy and the desire to achieve success in every field? If not, you are just playing a game. You are not serious."

 

And Siddartha Guatama once said

 

"I teach one thing and one only: that is suffering and the end of suffering."

 

I am a student of religion, Buddhism in particular. One of the questions that I have always pondered is "what is religion?" I have come to the conclusion that true religion is inquiry into suffering and ending that suffering. It is not the accumulation of knowledge, it does not involve getting enlightened and you do not need anybody to tell you how to be religious. Or rather it can involve these things but it does not need to and the end of suffering will be prolonged until one gives up their dependency on all things in order to be happy, even their precious knowledge. This is not to say that knowledge is bad.

 

The most important knowledge to me (and the only important religious knowledge) is the fact that we suffer, the cause of suffering and the way to end suffering. J krishnamurti would always say that we suffer because of attachment to identification. And I think he is 100% correct. It is attachment to identification (and thus knowledge) that causes fear, conflict, division, hurt, worry, stress, comparison, constant seeking/striving, feeling incomplete, the endless desire to become/arrive/acquire things and or knowledge. If we examine our own lives, we can find that this is the root of what keeps us suffering. K would often say as well that if you see directly the cause of your suffering, you avoid it like you would avoid a deadly animal. You simply don't go near it. No dependence at all on knowledge of laws of the universe. Just seeing what is deadly and staying away from it.

 

Many who rely on knowledge of the universe to be free may not be entirely free. What if your knowledge were proven wrong tomorrow? You would be right back to suffering again. The happiness of this one is chained to the laws of the world. Whereas a man who doesn't even depend on more knowledge than is necessary in order to be free is completely immune to the changes of the world.

 

This is why I always loved hearing how the Buddha, in the old days, never engaged in answering questions (usually metaphysical) that did not directly lead to the end of suffering. It is such a practical, pragmatic approach. Cut right to the point. Avoid the unnecessary bullshit speculation and fix your goddamn life. What use is knowledge and even enlightenment to you at the end of your life if you are still suffering? Some will probably come in and say, well the buddha did answer these questions later on, well blah blah blah

 

Another point that I have been pondering is this. If we look at Buddhism as purely pragmatic religion, the only goal of which is to get people to the stage where they are truly not suffering anymore, doesn't it expand more than we could imagine? The whole thing opens up in ways never thought possible. Now it is anything goes in order to end suffering (I don't mean things like killing). Not believe this, believe that, follow these tenets and only then will you be liberated. It becomes whatever works. If it ends your suffering, if it makes you happy, why not? Who cares if it is true? You should use whatever means you need to reach the end of suffering - fantasy, truth, whatever.

 

The ultimate goal in this new buddhism would be that no matter what means you use, they would be only used temporarily (one might even call them skillful means) in order to help you reach that place inside yourself where there is no suffering at all. We all have that potential pure nature inside of us waiting to come out. That nature that suffering has never touched is just waiting to discovered and brought about by each one of us. It is part of our nature. No teacher has to give it to us, nor do we have to get it from a book, nor do we have to get it by becoming enlightened. This pure nature free from suffering is there in us solely because of the fact that we are human.

 

Then of course, there is always knowledge nagging at you, saying that you won't be satisfied until you get more and more of me. Perhaps one must remember the famous taoist story of the stone cutter...

Edited October 21, 2009 by rebelrebel

[TianhuaQigong]

" suffering " :

in west "more suffering make you more strong" . in Buddhism it has an important topic has same meaning "Ni Zhen shang yuan" . means "in the difficult stage , make you have good yuan"

 

Suffering also come from Buddhism karma. you can not change karma. In Tao De Jing , Karma call "law of Consequence"

 

also , everyone come this world has a mission . it include suffering.

 

"goal of which is to get people to the stage where they are truly not suffering anymore,"

 

the goal is become Buddha, when you are a Buddha, there is no suffering. that is true. but when Buddha come back to this world for mission, Karma are in effect.

 

there are two kind of Buddhism, one is "I will do good and practice to become Buddha in future live. the Tibet Buddhism believe I could be Buddha in this life . both of them are right.

 

Tao also believe there is a short cut to become Xian in this life.

Edited October 22, 2009 by TianhuaQigong

[Marblehead]

Jiddu Krishnamurti once said

 

"You may say: 'I'm full of love, I'm full of truth, I'm full of knowledge, I'm full of wisdom.' I say: 'That's all nonsense. Do you behave? Are you free of fear? Are you free of ambition, greed, envy and the desire to achieve success in every field? If not, you are just playing a game. You are not serious."

 

 

Hi Rebel,

 

I do agree with the above quote.

 

I'm not Buddhist and have never agreed with the Buddhist concept of suffering so I can't speak to that.

 

Peace & Love!