karma and original sin

[Vajrahridaya]

In terms of human birth, you state it is an absolute, then when I reminded you that an absolute is universal, you twist the argument in your favor. Is this a brainwashing technique? Sounds like cult behavior to me.

ralis

 

Ralis? What are you talking about. This is the Buddhist view of intelligent sentient life in the universe, whether it be human or alien. It's a view that pivots on the assumption that Buddhist philosophy is correct in it's assertions of how mind streams are re-birthed through the karmic law exposed by the Buddha. If you are a Buddhist, this is part of the Buddhist comprehension.

 

There's a cult going around that is convincing people that they don't have past lives, and that seeing through the 5 senses is the limit of human capacity. That the only joy is through sense fulfillment or intellectual stimulation. They broadcast their views through many different avenues, including TV, Radio, music, books, internet, news, movies. Have you come in contact with them? It's called popular, mass consumerist culture.

 

It's quite obvious by now that you are not a student of Dzogchen. You use that as a kind of trick card Mr. Joker.

[ralis]

Have you ever considered subliminal stimuli, which is quite a prevalent media, advertising and institutional tool, as sinister means towards *enforcing* guilt and fear?

 

Just a thought ralis.

 

Be well!

 

I guess I left that one out.

 

ralis

[Vajrahridaya]

Karma and original sin are human primate concepts, that are used as social control mechanisms. Only guilt and fear are the result of believing in these concepts.

ralis

 

I actually experience a sense of freedom when I see and understand karma. I see that I have no one to blame and that my efforts do bare fruit. Why should I be scared? What do I have to feel guilty about?

 

The only way one would feel guilt or fear when looking at the concept of karma is if you don't like how you live, or the actions you commit or have commited.

 

Pretty simple.

[ralis]

Ralis? What are you talking about. This is the Buddhist view of intelligent sentient life in the universe, whether it be human or alien. It's a view that pivots on the assumption that Buddhist philosophy is correct in it's assertions of how mind streams are re-birthed through the karmic law exposed by the Buddha. If you are a Buddhist, this is part of the Buddhist comprehension.

 

There's a cult going around that is convincing people that they don't have past lives, and that seeing through the 5 senses is the limit of human capacity. That the only joy is through sense fulfillment or intellectual stimulation. They broadcast their views through many different avenues, including TV, Radio, music, books, internet, news, movies. Have you come in contact with them? It's called popular, mass consumerist culture.

 

It's quite obvious by now that you are not a student of Dzogchen. You use that as a kind of trick card Mr. Joker.

 

I have been judged and found wanting by Master Vajraji. BTW you has better get rid of your computer, if not then you will be part of the cult you just mentioned.

 

 

ralis

[Vajrahridaya]

Have you ever considered subliminal stimuli, which is quite a prevalent media, advertising and institutional tool, as sinister means towards *enforcing* guilt and fear?

 

Just a thought ralis.

 

Be well!

 

Yes, these are the way's that ignorant view points proliferate in our world, through mass media. People like ralis think that they think for themselves but they are as brain washed as the vast majority in this Kali Yuga. Thinking those without spiritual poverty are brain washed and part of a cult, but those who uphold the standard of experiential limitation the intellectual elite, who are part of clubs like Mensa.

 

I have been judged and found wanting by Master Vajraji. BTW you has better get rid of your computer, if not then you will be part of the cult you just mentioned.

ralis

 

I don't succumb to the unfortunate view points of the masses, I repeat my mantra and contemplate it's meaning. I wash my brain regularly.

Edited October 25, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[ralis]

Yes, these are the way's that ignorant view points proliferate in our world, through mass media. People like ralis think that they think for themselves but they are as brain washed as the vast majority in this Kali Yuga. Thinking those without spiritual poverty are brain washed and part of a cult, but those who uphold the standard of experiential limitation the intellectual elite, who are part of clubs like Mensa.

 

Thanks for the ad hominem attacks!

[TianhuaQigong]

Guilt and fear enforced? By what means? The military? What are the other means of enforcing guilt and fear? You must be living in the dark ages!

 

1. Biblical inquisitions?

2. Torture?

3. Forced church attendance?

 

Which god will be in charge of this activity?

ralis

 

 

how about enforced in your own heart?

 

we see people's aura by 3rd eye, those pollution Qi around people are Karma. that is why Buddism said " everything you have , can not bring with you when death, however Karma will go with you"

 

at some points , people will not feel guilt and fear, we know it will come anyway, so let it come. we just take care ourself , for not making new bad karma.

Edited October 25, 2009 by TianhuaQigong

[ralis]

Yes, these are the way's that ignorant view points proliferate in our world, through mass media. People like ralis think that they think for themselves but they are as brain washed as the vast majority in this Kali Yuga. Thinking those without spiritual poverty are brain washed and part of a cult, but those who uphold the standard of experiential limitation the intellectual elite, who are part of clubs like Mensa.

I don't succumb to the unfortunate view points of the masses, I repeat my mantra and contemplate it's meaning. I wash my brain regularly.

 

I guess you really are superior and better than the rest of us.

[Vajrahridaya]

Thanks for the ad hominem attacks!

 

Your welcome, from as you have deemed a friendly neighborhood cult member, with the talent for incohesive sentence building as part of the incomprehensible paragraphs of verbal expression from an uptight mentality.

 

I'm just straight with it, while you beat around the bush.

 

I guess you really are superior and better than the rest of us.

 

From as far as I can tell during our months of interchange, that you have yet to seriously embark on the spiritual path. You have yet to humble yourself and let go of what you think you know based upon the limits of your experience and realize that your views have yet to decrease your own suffering. Instead you use your bitter emotions and intellect to focus on dismantling other peoples spiritual vision and experiencing by calling them illogical, incomprehensible, monkey minded and next to illiterate.

 

Yet you say you have received Rigpa transmission, but except for the "hridaya meditation" you don't believe a single thing that Norbu Rinpoche actually teaches? Which is nothing different from the things I have said here as I have gone through the trouble, well pleasure rather of reading his written works and transcribed talks.

 

So, it's not a question of better or superior, it's a question of study and depth of practice. As effort does bare fruit, experiential and intellectual.

Edited October 25, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

I actually experience a sense of freedom when I see and understand karma. I see that I have no one to blame and that my efforts do bare fruit. Why should I be scared? What do I have to feel guilty about?

 

The only way one would feel guilt or fear when looking at the concept of karma is if you don't like how you live, or the actions you commit or have commited.

 

Pretty simple.

 

Ah, but you're wrong!

 

Past lives do affect karma, and the incomprehensible 'bad' things that happen to people or the difficult lot they have drawn in life cannot be ascribed to the virtuous or non-virtuous lives they now lead. While someone may be leading a virtuous now, if they develop cancer or die in a plane crash, it may be the karma of a previous existence manifesting. There is not a direct cause-effect relationship between the life one leads now and future occurrences, both favorable and unfavorable.

Don't worry, it's a common mistake many make.

Edited October 25, 2009 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[Pero]

There is not a direct cause-effect relationship between the life one leads now and future.

 

Future what?

[C T]

I think karma and original sin, as concepts, have both been, and will always be, misconstrued by the masses who adhere to culture-based religious practices. This cannot be helped because, imo, many priests and monks do not themselves fully grasp the complete meaning and implications of these two factors, and within this *learned* group, there are also many today who actually question the validity of karma and original sin.

 

Having spoken to monks and priests alike regarding this subject, very often they would just dismiss the questions citing irrelevance to one's religious beliefs, which is rather shocking! And those that do attempt to offer some sort of explanation often have left me thinking, "What the heck was he on about?" Most of the explanations given are mere extractions from texts that one can easily read up on oneself - in fact, if one were to insinuate that what they offer lacks depth and clarity, they would often say, "Oh we have a church/temple library here with loads of books for your convenience, so please feel free to access them"

 

Are they to blame for this ignorance and misinformation? I do not think so. After all, to many of them, its just a job like any other, and like any profession, there are those who are highly skilled and some not so. It is just unfortunate that the ones who generally deal with the flock belong to the latter.

 

I cant comment on the *sin* concept at all because i feel i do not have the right to, but karma, hmm, i believe, have many different levels and layers, so much so that if i were to state here that i know what it is, you should immediately regard me as a self-righteous idiot. Seriously. There is the outer, inner and secret aspects to take into consideration, and buddhist/hindu scholars spend years investigating these various aspects of karma before they even begin to get a clear understanding on this subject.

 

On a practical level, i believe that if one lives mindfully, and have a good heart towards all beings and the environment, then one's karma can be purified as a result. The Chinese in my country have a saying - "Even the most powerful demon will not/cannot disturb one whose heart is pure". I am sure there are more ways than one to understand this simple statement.

 

Thank you so much for reading.

 

Be well, and live (com)passionately!

 

CT

Edited October 26, 2009 by CowTao

[Vajrahridaya]

Ah, but you're wrong!

 

Past lives do affect karma, and the incomprehensible 'bad' things that happen to people or the difficult lot they have drawn in life cannot be ascribed to the virtuous or non-virtuous lives they now lead. While someone may be leading a virtuous now, if they develop cancer or die in a plane crash, it may be the karma of a previous existence manifesting. There is not a direct cause-effect relationship between the life one leads now and future occurrences, both favorable and unfavorable.

Don't worry, it's a common mistake many make.

 

Actually Songs, Sanchita karma (as in mental persuasion) is immediate and can change one's emotional experience and interpretation immediately upon reception and application of an influence, lets say, reading a book, or hearing a great Dharma talk. All possible physical occurrences don't change automatically due to a change in perception, but one's sense of guilt, or fear can change immediately or over a short period of practicing a change in perspective, so this is called Sanchita Karma which is as malleable as water, or as confined as ice. Yet changing one's sanchita karma is the first step to changing one's destiny. Basically, change your mind, change your life.

 

It's interesting Songs, all your assumptions about me and Buddhism have been shown to be inadequate. Yet you still persist without a single revelation of having learned anything.

 

Ah well. You will probably come up with some sort of retort.

Edited October 26, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Actually Songs, Sanchita karma (as in mental persuasion) is immediate and can change one's emotional experience and interpretation immediately upon reception and application of an influence, lets say, reading a book, or hearing a great Dharma talk. All possible physical occurrences don't change automatically due to a change in perception, but one's sense of guilt, or fear can change immediately or over a short period of practicing a change in perspective, so this is called Sanchita Karma which is as malleable as water, or as confined as ice. Yet changing one's sanchita karma is the first step to changing one's destiny. Basically, change your mind, change your life.

 

It's interesting Songs, all your assumptions about me and Buddhism have been shown to be inadequate. Yet you still persist without a single revelation of having learned anything.

 

Ah well. You will probably come up with some sort of retort.

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

Its a heartening to realize that karma has linked us together, as it has you and ralis as well.

[rebelrebel]

My problem with karma is not the cause and effect aspect of it itself. It is how far people take it. Perhaps I shouldn't have been comparing karma and "original" sin, just karma and sin. The real problem I have with some people who believe in Karma is when they start talking about specific, pre determined realms that one will end up in if one does such and such action, this or that action. That is just making things too simple. Heck I think people who do this are simplifying their own theory. These people who claim to believe in cause and effect are denying and reducing the sheer complexity of cause and effect, the multiple causes that any one action has and the multiple effects that any one action has - both good and bad. I have heard vajraji say multiple times in this forum that a person will or may end up in a certain realm after death or at "the end of a cosmic eon" solely for having one specific belief. I mean, really?

Edited October 26, 2009 by rebelrebel

[Vajrahridaya]

 

 

I cant comment on the *sin* concept at all because i feel i do not have the right to, but karma, hmm, i believe, have many different levels and layers, so much so that if i were to state here that i know what it is, you should immediately regard me as a self-righteous idiot. Seriously. There is the outer, inner and secret aspects to take into consideration, and buddhist/hindu scholars spend years investigating these various aspects of karma before they even begin to get a clear understanding on this subject.

 

 

 

Yes CowTao,

 

Which is why there are all sorts of different categorizations in Sanskrit for karma.

 

Sanchita karma - actions of mind or thought, or intention or intended action.

 

Agami karma - is intention related to sanchita and kriyamana.

 

Kriyamana karma - actions manifesting in the now based on ones sanchita karma

 

Prarabdha karma - past life karmas or historical karmas which are definitely going to be experienced in and as this body. Like your physical possibilities, DNA, genes, etc. Also the unavoidable circumstances that will happen to you regardless of your kriyamana or sanchita karma

 

There are three kinds of Prarabdha karma: Ichha (personally desired), Anichha (without desire) and Parechha (due to others' desire). For a self realized person, a Jivan mukta, there is no Ichha-Prarabdha but the two others, Anichha and Parechha, remain [2], which even a jivan mukta has to undergo.

 

Nishkam karma - actions without selfishness, or actions performed without conscious or subconscious personal desire and without the sense of I have to do this for this result. Basically selfless actions. These are the kind of mental and physical karmas (actions) that lead to the experience of emptiness.

 

Sakam Karma - actions that stem from a heavy sense of attachment or duty. Though it doesn't have to be negative and can be a step in the right direction if that sense of duty is connected with the desire for the experience of dharma.

 

It's all quite complicated and there are mixtures.

 

So, one can't really understand the doctrine of karma without understanding these and the mixtures.

 

The doctrine of karma is deeply subtle and not simplistic as ralis would have you believe.

Edited October 26, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Basically, change your mind, change your life.

 

 

 

That's a nice New Age interpretation of karma, Vaj, but how does a baby born severely retarded "change her mind" and therefore her life? Has she arrived in the world in that state due to karma?

 

As for the assumptions you assume I'm making about you, you're just projecting again.

 

Take care, Young Master!

Edited October 26, 2009 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[ralis]

Yes CowTao,

 

Which is why there are all sorts of different categorizations in Sanskrit for karma.

 

Sanchita karma - actions of mind or thought, or intention or intended action.

 

Agami karma - is intention related to sanchita and kriyamana.

 

Kriyamana karma - actions manifesting in the now based on ones sanchita karma

 

Prarabdha karma - past life karmas or historical karmas which are definitely going to be experienced in and as this body. Like your physical possibilities, DNA, genes, etc. Also the unavoidable circumstances that will happen to you regardless of your kriyamana or sanchita karma

 

There are three kinds of Prarabdha karma: Ichha (personally desired), Anichha (without desire) and Parechha (due to others' desire). For a self realized person, a Jivan mukta, there is no Ichha-Prarabdha but the two others, Anichha and Parechha, remain [2], which even a jivan mukta has to undergo.

 

Nishkam karma - actions without selfishness, or actions performed without conscious or subconscious personal desire and without the sense of I have to do this for this result. Basically selfless actions. These are the kind of mental and physical karmas (actions) that lead to the experience of emptiness.

 

Sakam Karma - actions that steam from a heavy sense of attachment or duty. Though it doesn't have to be negative and can be a step in the right direction if that sense of duty is connected with the desire for the experience of dharma.

 

It's all quite complicated and there are mixtures.

 

So, one can't really understand the doctrine of karma without understanding these and the mixtures.

 

The doctrine of karma is deeply subtle and not simplistic as ralis would have you believe.

 

 

Just how subtle is it enlightened one? With your style of teaching, no one in the universe would ever obtain liberation! Keith Dowman is so far ahead of you in terms of teaching clearly, it makes your explanations moot! His teachings are to the point. Quit pretending that you know something. Now I see why the Lama's don't want unqualified persons to teach.

 

 

ralis

[C T]

Yes CowTao,

 

Which is why there are all sorts of different categorizations in Sanskrit for karma.

 

Sanchita karma - actions of mind or thought, or intention or intended action.

 

Agami karma - is intention related to sanchita and kriyamana.

 

Kriyamana karma - actions manifesting in the now based on ones sanchita karma

 

Prarabdha karma - past life karmas or historical karmas which are definitely going to be experienced in and as this body. Like your physical possibilities, DNA, genes, etc. Also the unavoidable circumstances that will happen to you regardless of your kriyamana or sanchita karma

 

There are three kinds of Prarabdha karma: Ichha (personally desired), Anichha (without desire) and Parechha (due to others' desire). For a self realized person, a Jivan mukta, there is no Ichha-Prarabdha but the two others, Anichha and Parechha, remain [2], which even a jivan mukta has to undergo.

 

Nishkam karma - actions without selfishness, or actions performed without conscious or subconscious personal desire and without the sense of I have to do this for this result. Basically selfless actions. These are the kind of mental and physical karmas (actions) that lead to the experience of emptiness.

 

Sakam Karma - actions that steam from a heavy sense of attachment or duty. Though it doesn't have to be negative and can be a step in the right direction if that sense of duty is connected with the desire for the experience of dharma.

 

It's all quite complicated and there are mixtures.

 

So, one can't really understand the doctrine of karma without understanding these and the mixtures.

 

The doctrine of karma is deeply subtle and not simplistic as ralis would have you believe.

Salutations V! And thanks for this post - very very helpful in explaining the different types of karma. You could have taken the lazy way out and told me to go read up this book or that text, but you took the trouble to state it all down here, so i am grateful to you.

 

I need to add here that ralis have never indicated to me personally that karma is a simplistic notion, and neither have i seen him alluding to this in some of the other posts he had made. Well, its not of great concern anyway, and i am sure what his views are must seem pretty valid to him, just as yours are to you, so fair play to both of you for this prolonged and determined effort to exercise both your individualities.

 

Respectfully,

 

CT

[ralis]

That's a nice New Age interpretation of karma, Vaj, but how does a baby born severely retarded "change her mind" and therefore her life? Has she arrived in the world in that state due to karma?

 

As for the assumptions you assume I'm making about you, you're just projecting again.

 

Vajraji and others present a view that is unrealistic and untenable. I was born with 90% hearing loss in my right ear. I guess I can just think that away and my bad deeds from past lives are purified!

 

Vajraji, why not explain that one in your grand scheme of things!

 

 

ralis

Edited October 26, 2009 by ralis

[Vajrahridaya]

. I have heard vajraji say multiple times in this forum that a person will or may end up in a certain realm after death or at "the end of a cosmic eon" solely for having one specific belief. I mean, really?

 

Hi rebelrebel,

 

to clarify...

 

As a specific focus engenders all sorts of actions and also the state of meditation and contemplation. The result of this focus may manifest soon as in it also depends on the other assortments of karmas or mental alignments that have happened in the past that have impressions or (samskaras = karmic impressions) deep within the person in question. But if one's focus is very strong and from deep within the person is integrating a formless reality with every aspect of their conscious mind as well as the subconscious. If he/she has illuminated their unconscious and integrates all these aspects of his/her psychology into this grasping at a formless absolute that underlies everything, then yes. The result is when one's karmas of physicality and even the different heavens that one may go to have burnt up, due to this intense focus, the goal of merging with a formless state of consciousness as an absolute ground of being at the end of a cosmic eon, will happen. Definitely because you've aligned your entire being with it, your conscious/subconscious and unconscious have all been illuminated and made to reflect this particular belief in a universal cosmic source that is a formless being of pure consciousness, as this result originates dependent upon that focus.

 

I understand that you are having a hard time understanding the implications of some of my blogs because I don't always go into detail on how it all works on the complicated level that it works on. Thanks for the opportunity to clarify.

 

Yes, we manifest in different realms according to our focus and how intense that focus is or how much energy we have invested in that focus. If a persons focus is scattered and one has a belief in this and that, is not sure about this or that, and one has not illumined all of ones subconscious states of mind and integrated these states with a particular belief, but is in fact scattered, then it's hard to tell exactly what will happen for that someone right after death. It entirely depends upon how much energy (karma) one has invested on all levels of ones being in a particular belief or experience which determines the outcome.

 

When I said what you are referring to, I was specifically talking about the first paragraph in this explanation when a persons entire being is enraptured in the faith of that particular result.

 

Like if a Christian has their entire life this idea about a heaven with a god who has a throne and if he or she spends their life living in a virtue that reflects the desire to experience this heaven and he or she integrates his or her entire psychology around this end. Doing good for the sake of this result, being good for the sake of having love from this God, and when he or she experiences this joy and bliss as fruit of his or her action dedicated to this god in this particular idea of a heaven realm. When he or she dies, and his or her entire being is enraptured by this idea and his or her energy is completely focused on this result, this will definitely bare fruit. For as long as this intention and focus has been empowered to last for, this person will experience that heaven after death, until another karma arises in the mind stream after some time that this person wasn't aware of due to not completely illuminating his or her unconscious.

 

Anyway, it is complicated and not simplistic.

[Vajrahridaya]

Vajraji and others present a view that is unrealistic and untenable. I was born with 90% hearing loss in my right ear. I guess I can just think that away and my bad deeds from past lives are purified!

ralis

 

Like I said, that's your prarabdha karma and this will be your karma no matter what you think or do. But, what you think can determine whether or not you suffer this karmic experience or not, as this karma results from past lives and is complicated. As I explained in my explanation of the different types of karmas. You must not have been reading.

 

You also need to read in a way where you actually know how to mix them up and see the complicated inter-relations that are going on as there are also many other beings at work here on this planet all influencing each other through all these different levels of karma. You are just seeing the surface and not seeing the deep implications as they relate to life. It's probably because you haven't done a single day of sitting meditation where you consciously transcend your conscious linear thinking mind that's trapped in the sequenced progress of time.

 

Though maybe you have, but when I asked you, you didn't answer.

 

Your Sanchita karma determines your inner and emotional interpretation of the experience of hearing loss, and your future lifes prarabdha karma because your state of mind determines your actions or your kriymana karma. Who knows, maybe your positive thoughts (sanchita karma) and actions (kriyamana karma) can bring you into an alignment with a circumstance that leads to the end of this hearing loss, like a break through in science. Due to your actions you meet the right people or something of that nature.

 

It's not that I'm wrong, it's that you are interpreting what I say wrongly. You've decided in your mind that I am wrong so you are even mis-interpreting what I'm stating in a way that keeps this pre-conception true in your mind. Even when I clearly state that your sanchita karma cannot change your prarbdha karma if it's destined to be a certain way due to past life karmas that you cannot go back in time to change.

 

Your sanchita karma is your state of mind and your kriyamana karma is your state of current action that can change your future. Your prarabdha karma is the current results of your past kriyamana and sanchita karmas.

 

That's a nice New Age interpretation of karma, Vaj, but how does a baby born severely retarded "change her mind" and therefore her life? Has she arrived in the world in that state due to karma?

 

As for the assumptions you assume I'm making about you, you're just projecting again.

 

Take care, Young Master!

 

I don't assume anything about your assumptions outside of what you have written to me. What you have written to me makes it quite clear what you do think of me.

 

That phrase, "change your mind, change your life" is for people like you Songs, who can actually change their mind and their life. Not for those without the power to do so.

 

Yes, the baby was born severely retarded due to karmas. There are no effects without causes and past lives condition this life.

 

If you don't believe in past lives, then that's your issue with Buddhadharma, not mine.

 

 

 

 

 

Just how subtle is it enlightened one? With your style of teaching, no one in the universe would ever obtain liberation! Keith Dowman is so far ahead of you in terms of teaching clearly, it makes your explanations moot! His teachings are to the point. Quit pretending that you know something. Now I see why the Lama's don't want unqualified persons to teach.

ralis

 

Ah, from your repost I caught that I wrote steam instead of stem.

 

Well ralis, what else is new from you? Not a thing I gather.

 

 

 

 

Respectfully,

 

CT

 

CT,

 

Thank you.

[ralis]

Like I said, that's your prarabdha karma and this will be your karma no matter what you think or do. But, what you think can determine whether or not you suffer this karmic experience or not, as this karma results from past lives and is complicated. As I explained in my explanation of the different types of karmas. You must not have been reading.

 

You also need to read in a way where you actually know how to mix them up and see the complicated inter-relations that are going on as there are also many other beings at work here on this planet all influencing each other through all these different levels of karma. You are just seeing the surface and not seeing the deep implications as they relate to life. It's probably because you haven't done a single day of sitting meditation where you consciously transcend your conscious linear thinking mind that's trapped in the sequenced progress of time.

 

Though maybe you have, but when I asked you, you didn't answer.

 

Your Sanchita karma determines your inner and emotional interpretation of the experience of hearing loss, and your future lifes prarabdha karma because your state of mind determines your actions or your kriymana karma. Who knows, maybe your positive thoughts (sanchita karma) and actions (kriyamana karma) can bring you into an alignment with a circumstance that leads to the end of this hearing loss, like a break through in science. Due to your actions you meet the right people or something of that nature.

 

It's not that I'm wrong, it's that you are interpreting what I say wrongly. You've decided in your mind that I am wrong so you are even mis-interpreting what I'm stating in a way that keeps this pre-conception true in your mind. Even when I clearly state that your sanchita karma cannot change your prarbdha karma if it's destined to be a certain way due to past life karmas that you cannot go back in time to change.

 

Your sanchita karma is your state of mind and your kriyamana karma is your state of current action that can change your future. Your prarabdha karma is the current results of your past kriyamana and sanchita karmas.

I don't assume anything about your assumptions outside of what you have written to me. What you have written to me makes it quite clear what you do think of me.

 

That phrase, "change your mind, change your life" is for people like you Songs, who can actually change their mind and their life. Not for those without the power to do so.

 

Yes, the baby was born severely retarded due to karmas. There are no effects without causes and past lives condition this life.

 

If you don't believe in past lives, then that's your issue with Buddhadharma, not mine.

Ah, from your repost I caught that I wrote steam instead of stem.

 

Well ralis, what else is new from you? Not a thing I gather.

 

 

Thank you so much for your nice little explanation of my karma! All you offered was an impersonal, cruel, inhuman and sanitized explanation!

 

I assume you believe the Iraqi women and children that were slaughtered by the U.S. military, were concentrating on such an event before they were born? From an illegal war!

 

What about the 60 million people that were slaughtered in WW2, were they thinking in a most subtle way that they wanted to die horrible deaths? If we were to follow in the most subtle way your point of view, the victims in Europe had a subtle karmic connection with Hitler and Stalin and formed a suicide pact to perform this despicable act.

 

Your most subtle wisdom is just too much for me to comprehend!

 

 

 

ralis

Edited October 26, 2009 by ralis

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

 

 

Yes, we manifest in different realms according to our focus and how intense that focus is or how much energy we have invested in that focus. If a persons focus is scattered and one has a belief in this and that, is not sure about this or that, and one has not illumined all of ones subconscious states of mind and integrated these states with a particular belief, but is in fact scattered, then it's hard to tell exactly what will happen for that someone right after death. It entirely depends upon how much energy (karma) one has invested on all levels of ones being in a particular belief or experience which determines the outcome.

 

When I said what you are referring to, I was specifically talking about the first paragraph in this explanation when a persons entire being is enraptured in the faith of that particular result.

 

Like if a Christian has their entire life this idea about a heaven with a god who has a throne and if he or she spends their life living in a virtue that reflects the desire to experience this heaven and he or she integrates his or her entire psychology around this end. Doing good for the sake of this result, being good for the sake of having love from this God, and when he or she experiences this joy and bliss as fruit of his or her action dedicated to this god in this particular idea of a heaven realm. When he or she dies, and his or her entire being is enraptured by this idea and his or her energy is completely focused on this result, this will definitely bare fruit. For as long as this intention and focus has been empowered to last for, this person will experience that heaven after death, until another karma arises in the mind stream after some time that this person wasn't aware of due to not completely illuminating his or her unconscious.

Anyway, it is complicated and not simplistic.

 

So if this Christian woman ends up in her Christian 'heaven' as a result of her focus and enrapturement, is she then excluded from the wheel of rebirth? Or does she get yanked back into an earthly body suddenly just as she's begun enjoying her heaven and talking with Jesus?

 

So by this plan then, the Native American goes to his afterlife that he has invested his energy and beliefs in?

 

The Muslim martyr actually does get the 72 virgins, and on and on?

 

So if I believe, really believe that I'm going to a higher realm than all the Norbu Dzogchenitza's, that I will someday look down upon you Vajrajee, from a higher realm than what you were able to attain?

 

When you said that this stuff was complicated, you were right, when you said it was subtle, what you meant was that it was muddled and confused.

 

Perhaps you should spend less time in Sakam Karma (attachment to your actions and point of view) and more time in Nishkam Karma (posting here without personal desire and attachment).

 

Maybe then you wouldn't be such a grumpy Buddhist!

Edited October 26, 2009 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[TianhuaQigong]

Edited October 26, 2009 by TianhuaQigong