karma and original sin

[ralis]

So if this Christian woman ends up in her Christian 'heaven' as a result of her focus and enrapturement, is she then excluded from the wheel of rebirth? Or does she get yanked back into an earthly body suddenly just as she's begun enjoying her heaven and talking with Jesus?

 

So by this plan then, the Native American goes to his afterlife that he has invested his energy and beliefs in?

 

The Muslim martyr actually does get the 72 virgins, and on and on?

 

So if I believe, really believe that I'm going to a higher realm than all the Norbu Dzogchenitza's, that I will someday look down upon you Vajrajee, from a higher realm than what you were able to attain?

 

When you said that this stuff was complicated, you were right, when you said it was subtle, what you meant was that it was muddled and confused.

 

Perhaps you should spend less time in Sakam Karma (attachment to your actions and point of view) and more time in Nishkam Karma (posting here without personal desire and attachment).

 

Maybe then you wouldn't be such a grumpy Buddhist!

 

Great post songs! I was a bit emotional in my last post, to say the least. Will you let me know what that higher subtle realm feels like?

[TianhuaQigong]

So if this Christian woman ends up in her Christian 'heaven' as a result of her focus and enrapturement, is she then excluded from the wheel of rebirth? Or does she get yanked back into an earthly body suddenly just as she's begun enjoying her heaven and talking with Jesus?

 

So by this plan then, the Native American goes to his afterlife that he has invested his energy and beliefs in?

 

The Muslim martyr actually does get the 72 virgins, and on and on?

 

So if I believe, really believe that I'm going to a higher realm than all the Norbu Dzogchenitza's, that I will someday look down upon you Vajrajee, from a higher realm than what you were able to attain?

 

When you said that this stuff was complicated, you were right, when you said it was subtle, what you meant was that it was muddled and confused.

 

Perhaps you should spend less time in Sakam Karma (attachment to your actions and point of view) and more time in Nishkam Karma (posting here without personal desire and attachment).

 

Maybe then you wouldn't be such a grumpy Buddhist!

 

as you said there is no fun at heaven either, you getting old then you go to heaven, your dad go to heaven when he was very old, so your grand dad, so what is fun at heaven, old man and lady everywhere, someone younge are died from war or accident with blood on face

 

Taoism say there are 33 layer of heaven, so

Edited October 26, 2009 by TianhuaQigong

[ralis]

[TianhuaQigong]

Everyone should experience war? Why is that? That is one of the most irrational naive statements made on here! Did you bother to even consider the ramifications of that statement?

 

This is what belief systems do to the brain. Melt down!!

 

ralis

 

till now, I haven't say I was in any religion or belief system, I am in the exploreing

btw, I think all the religion are same, tell the same thing in diffident view

 

ok, take that everyone part back

Edited October 26, 2009 by TianhuaQigong

[Vajrahridaya]

Thank you so much for your nice little explanation of my karma! All you offered was an impersonal, cruel, inhuman and sanitized explanation!

 

I assume you believe the Iraqi women and children that were slaughtered by the U.S. military, were concentrating on such an event before they were born? From an illegal war!

 

That's different, not all circumstances that befall you are determined by your desire or Ichha Prarabdha karma. Obviously. Also, the universe does not have a conscience, thoughts and actions just bare fruit through a complicated process of inter-dependent influencing. I suppose you think things just happen randomly, without cause, that thoughts and actions are not intertwined? That mind and body are two entirely separate dimensions that have nothing to do with each other? Obviously that's absurd, much like your interpretations of my words.

 

You are definitely not a Dzogchen practitioner. You definitely have no knowledge of the teachings of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche. That's become completely obvious now. This is a good place for me to start understanding you from.

 

As I explained in the description of karma, if you had of actually been reading, which I've come to the conclusion that you do not actually read a thing I say because you're not actually interested in learning anything new. Well... so be it. I'll talk anyway. As I said, Prarabdha karma has 3 types; Ichha (personally desired), Anichha (without desire) and Parechha (due to others' desire). So those karmas were other's desires (Parechha). Though of course for the families to be there at that time was not random either. But, that doesn't mean the cause of them being there was in a black and white sense, that they did that to someone in a past life so it was done to them in this life, that's a common mis-use of the teaching of karma, but due to their thoughts and actions, they ended up in that situation and got slaughtered just due to the fact of inter-relating influencing of choices.

 

The concept of karma if rightly understood should engender compassion, not cold complacency. It's compassion which is Nishkam karma that nullifies non-beneficial occurrences and feelings because actions and thoughts that spring from genuine compassion have the power of the realization or influence of the recognition of emptiness which is a condition that makes interconnectivity beyond the appearance of difference possible and impermanence possible as well. So compassion can change a seemingly engraved in stone result into something more beneficial.

 

What about the 60 million people that were slaughtered in WW2, were they thinking in a most subtle way that they wanted to die horrible deaths? If we were to follow in the most subtle way your point of view, the victims in Europe had a subtle karmic connection with Hitler and Stalin and formed a suicide pact to perform this despicable act.

 

They had a connection with Stalin and Hitler, but that doesn't mean they made a pact to perform a mass suicide through the hands of these dictators. No, karma is more complicated than that and each individual had their own unique karmic reasons for ending up in that situation. It's said that one can determine one's own karmas, past, present and future, but it's extremely difficult, or next to impossible to comprehend someone else's exact karmas of the 3 times. Anyway, it wasn't their Ichha prarabdha it was their parechha prarabdha karma.

 

Your most subtle wisdom is just too much for me to comprehend!

ralis

 

Well, at this time... it does seem so. There is always time though.

[Vajrahridaya]

So if this Christian woman ends up in her Christian 'heaven' as a result of her focus and enrapturement, is she then excluded from the wheel of rebirth? Or does she get yanked back into an earthly body suddenly just as she's begun enjoying her heaven and talking with Jesus?

 

It will last as long as it's empowered to last, because she hasn't emptied out all her karmas, one never knows what her storehouse has in store for her? She could go higher and become more realized if she has the karma to contemplate even in this realm, or she could drop in her evolution due to becoming complacent and who knows maybe her attachments to pleasures increase. People leave these realms as randomly as people leave these realms, except it's different because people aren't womb born into these higher realms, they are mind born, so they don't die like a body dies here.

 

So by this plan then, the Native American goes to his afterlife that he has invested his energy and beliefs in?

 

Sure. Of course when a person dies, they experience the propulsions of subconscious desires or karmas and these may be stronger than their conscious ones that they were carrying around. It's complicated as each individual is.

 

The Muslim martyr actually does get the 72 virgins, and on and on?

 

Doubtful, due to the fact that they die with a sense of fear and hate, they most likely have subconscious issues that have deeply strong negative influences that will overcome their blind faith.

 

So if I believe, really believe that I'm going to a higher realm than all the Norbu Dzogchenitza's, that I will someday look down upon you Vajrajee, from a higher realm than what you were able to attain?

 

Dzogchenpas transcend realms. We don't attach liberation to a heaven realm or a deity, we see all these realms and deities as equally empty of inherent existence and originating dependently through a process of co-creativity of mind streams. Dzogchen masters, or Buddhas for that matter don't get stuck in any idea of a realm or a heaven.

 

When you said that this stuff was complicated, you were right, when you said it was subtle, what you meant was that it was muddled and confused.

 

Not to me.

 

Perhaps you should spend less time in Sakam Karma (attachment to your actions and point of view) and more time in Nishkam Karma (posting here without personal desire and attachment).

 

Thanks... I'm working on it. I'll wish the same blessing for you as well.

 

Maybe then you wouldn't be such a grumpy Buddhist!

I'm hardly grumpy. I actually am never angry with you guys, mostly just surprised and astonished. It's amazing that two people can mis-interpret everything I say and be so proud of it and self righteous of these mis-interpretations to such an amazing degree and appear on the same board? I've never experienced this before. But, it does offer the opportunity to keep on clarifying the meaning for those who do read with an open desire for learning. I like it better when you guys just ask for clarity instead of jumping to mis-placed conclusions and don't get so arrogant and insulting. I have nice conversations with people that disagree with me all the time.

[Capital]

Good post, Vajrahridaya. I think that once your stalkers read that post, they may actually be forced to comprehend what you're writing, as it was quite clear.

Edited October 26, 2009 by Capital

[Vajrahridaya]

Good post, Vajrahridaya. I think that once your stalkers read that post, they may actually be forced to comprehend what you're writing, as it was quite clear.

 

Thank you Capital.

 

I appreciate that.

 

 

This is what belief systems do to the brain. Melt down!!

 

ralis

 

Replace "belief systems" with "bitter thoughts" and you've hit your mark.

Edited October 26, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Good post, Vajrahridaya. I think that once your stalkers read that post, they may actually be forced to comprehend what you're writing, as it was quite clear.

 

It all seems so neat and tidy...and Buddhists reign supreme...

 

Tra la la...have a nice day!

Edited October 26, 2009 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[Marblehead]

I'm glad Y'all are still having fun.

 

Returning to silent mode.

 

Peace & Love!

[dwai]

 

Maybe I misunderstand, but karma and original sin seems like the same to me. Original sin means to me that one is "born into sin," and with karma, your past life causing you to be "born into sin." You will always carry some baggage with you until you become enlightened and are therefore no longer affected by karma or original sin. The Hindu gurus, to me, were set up to save others just as Christ was. They took on your bad karma or sins. In reality, as far as I can tell, they only took on disciples to worship them, but still the idea was the same, again. Great book on this savior idea is Pagan Christs that can be read online for free or purchases. It is by JOhn Mackinnon. www.forgottenbooks.org

The last sentence was truly funny, but so true. And I have to agree with you on the first part too.

 

The confusion is because you use the word "Sin" that connotes negativity associated with it. So Original Sin is something that must at all costs be undone.

 

Where as, in the Eastern traditions, Karma isn't necessarily something that needs to be 'undone', because no amount of undoing is also doing, so you accrue karmic debt anyway.

 

If and when an individual chooses to seek liberation from the cycle of birth and re-birth, he/she will have to do "not doing" (or in otherwords, Wu Wei or Nishkaama Karma) to not accrue karmic debt. Also he/she will have to do Yoga to release bound energy (or Cultivation), freeing up energy at each sheath of the body (the physical, pranic, psychic, spiritual, emotional, etc or the five koshas per Hinduism or 7 bodies per Taoism).

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

Karma is simply a particular culture's perspective of consequences.. consequences are not fixed, they are mitigated by the choices made 'now'.. Karma, as dogma, seems contradictory to Taoist philosophy..

 

Be well..

[Marblehead]

Greetings..

 

Karma is simply a particular culture's perspective of consequences.. consequences are not fixed, they are mitigated by the choices made 'now'.. Karma, as dogma, seems contradictory to Taoist philosophy..

 

Be well..

 

 

 

I'm in the silent mode but I still agree with you none-the-less.

 

Peace & Love!

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

 

I'm in the silent mode but I still agree with you none-the-less.

 

Peace & Love!

 

I agree with you all-the-more.

 

War and Peace!

[ralis]

That's different, not all circumstances that befall you are determined by your desire or Ichha Prarabdha karma. Obviously. Also, the universe does not have a conscience, thoughts and actions just bare fruit through a complicated process of inter-dependent influencing. I suppose you think things just happen randomly, without cause, that thoughts and actions are not intertwined? That mind and body are two entirely separate dimensions that have nothing to do with each other? Obviously that's absurd, much like your interpretations of my words.

 

You are definitely not a Dzogchen practitioner. You definitely have no knowledge of the teachings of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche. That's become completely obvious now. This is a good place for me to start understanding you from.

 

As I explained in the description of karma, if you had of actually been reading, which I've come to the conclusion that you do not actually read a thing I say because you're not actually interested in learning anything new. Well... so be it. I'll talk anyway. As I said, Prarabdha karma has 3 types; Ichha (personally desired), Anichha (without desire) and Parechha (due to others' desire). So those karmas were other's desires (Parechha). Though of course for the families to be there at that time was not random either. But, that doesn't mean the cause of them being there was in a black and white sense, that they did that to someone in a past life so it was done to them in this life, that's a common mis-use of the teaching of karma, but due to their thoughts and actions, they ended up in that situation and got slaughtered just due to the fact of inter-relating influencing of choices.

 

The concept of karma if rightly understood should engender compassion, not cold complacency. It's compassion which is Nishkam karma that nullifies non-beneficial occurrences and feelings because actions and thoughts that spring from genuine compassion have the power of the realization or influence of the recognition of emptiness which is a condition that makes interconnectivity beyond the appearance of difference possible and impermanence possible as well. So compassion can change a seemingly engraved in stone result into something more beneficial.

They had a connection with Stalin and Hitler, but that doesn't mean they made a pact to perform a mass suicide through the hands of these dictators. No, karma is more complicated than that and each individual had their own unique karmic reasons for ending up in that situation. It's said that one can determine one's own karmas, past, present and future, but it's extremely difficult, or next to impossible to comprehend someone else's exact karmas of the 3 times. Anyway, it wasn't their Ichha prarabdha it was their parechha prarabdha karma.

Well, at this time... it does seem so. There is always time though.

 

 

You are a joke! How could the people that died in the Pacific theater in WWII have a connection with Hitler and Stalin. I put that 60 million in as the approximate total for the entire war. You just respond with pat answers!

 

I guess you think that if one takes teachings from Norbu, then one should follow the party line and not think. I think and question everything. You write with no heart or feeling for the human condition. By putting me down, you show your true self. Heartless!

 

 

ralis

 

It all seems so neat and tidy...and Buddhists reign supreme...

 

Tra la la...have a nice day!

 

Vajraji and the Buddhists just don't want to get their hands dirty with the realities of existence. Just spotless and pure!

Edited October 26, 2009 by ralis

[Capital]

I feel it important to mention that I am certainly no Buddhist. Neither am I a true Taoist, to be honest. I simply don't know enough to call myself either.

 

My interruptions in these constant fights have been mostly on Vajrahridaya's "side" because in each thread that I've read, he has simply posted an opinion, and you (Ralis and theSofDE) attack him again and again simply because his opinion differs.

 

I think if Karma is a reality, which I don't insist on or insist against, as I have no say in the workings of nature, then you are reaping in bad karma with your nasty thoughts and responses. It is repugnant to see apparently grown adults become so very passionately angry on an internet forum that is supposed to discuss (primarily, not as a rule) Taoism, a religion of compassionate moderation.

 

EDIT: Funny how Peace and Love changed to War and Peace, eh TheSongsofDistantEarth...?

 

I guess you think that if one takes teachings from Norbu, then one should follow the party line and not think. I think and question everything. You write with no heart or feeling for the human condition. By putting me down, you show your true self. Heartless!

ralis

 

 

...What? If I have seen anyone putting someone down, it has been you. To do so as constantly as you do, and then to blame the very person who you've been putting down for putting you down is simply saddening. You think and question everything? Think and question yourself and your defensive, enraged responses then.

Edited October 26, 2009 by Capital

[C T]

You are a joke! How could the people that died in the Pacific theater in WWII have a connection with Hitler and Stalin. I put that 60 million in as the approximate total for the entire war. You just respond with pat answers!

 

I guess you think that if one takes teachings from Norbu, then one should follow the party line and not think. I think and question everything. You write with no heart or feeling for the human condition. By putting me down, you show your true self. Heartless!

ralis

Vajraji and the Buddhists just don't want to get their hands dirty with the realities of existence. Just spotless and pure!

 

Ralis,

 

If you truly, truly grasp the Reality within and without existence, you may just be amazed that spotless and pure wont even come close to describing its surface!

 

Perceiving that Vaj and the Buddhists dont want to get their hands dirty with the realities of life does appear a little extreme, no? Its a pretty sweeping statement, but since the *lol* was inserted at the end of it, you have earned the benefit of some doubt that you meant that seriously. But it does leave your credibility slightly in question though...sorry!

 

For a defensive Buddhist who may chance upon this remark, they may ask themselves, (or you for that matter, if they are super-sensitive), what exactly do you hope to gain by saying thus? What exactly is your higher purpose? Do you actually have one? If you do, then why not make it apparent?

 

You need not answer these questions btw, since they are mere suppositions. I am only conjecturing what a sensitive Buddhist (esp one with super-clean hands hehehe) might say here, thats all!

 

Be well my friend!

[ralis]

Ralis,

 

If you truly, truly grasp the Reality within and without existence, you may just be amazed that spotless and pure wont even come close to describing its surface!

 

Perceiving that Vaj and the Buddhists dont want to get their hands dirty with the realities of life does appear a little extreme, no? Its a pretty sweeping statement, but since the *lol* was inserted at the end of it, you have earned the benefit of some doubt that you meant that seriously. But it does leave your credibility slightly in question though...sorry!

 

For a defensive Buddhist who may chance upon this remark, they may ask themselves, (or you for that matter, if they are super-sensitive), what exactly do you hope to gain by saying thus? What exactly is your higher purpose? Do you actually have one? If you do, then why not make it apparent?

 

You need not answer these questions btw, since they are mere suppositions. I am only conjecturing what a sensitive Buddhist (esp one with super-clean hands hehehe) might say here, thats all!

 

Be well my friend!

 

I have always felt that Buddhism is not proactive enough in the world. Deference to the dharma kings (Lama's) is expected. Deference is in the form of money offerings and prostrations to the Lama teaching from his throne. Exactly how does that benefit humanity? We are told that is good karma and one will obtain great merit and a better karmic rebirth. Isn't this just more blind faith? How many have actually benefited from this system in the last 2500 yrs? Seems to me this is just a different version of the divine right of kings in feudal Europe.

 

I just don't see how preaching karmic dogma helps anyone. It is nothing more than another mechanistic view of the cosmos.

 

 

ralis

[Vajrasattva]

ORIGINAL "SIN"

 

THERE WASN'T ONE.

 

 

"SIN" WAS A LUNAR DEITY AKA NANNAR AKA SHIVA AKA JEHOVA

[C T]

I have always felt that Buddhism is not proactive enough in the world. Deference to the dharma kings (Lama's) is expected. Deference is in the form of money offerings and prostrations to the Lama teaching from his throne. Exactly how does that benefit humanity? We are told that is good karma and one will obtain great merit and a better karmic rebirth. Isn't this just more blind faith? How many have actually benefited from this system in the last 2500 yrs? Seems to me this is just a different version of the divine right of kings in feudal Europe.

 

I just don't see how preaching karmic dogma helps anyone. It is nothing more than another mechanistic view of the cosmos.

ralis

Well, your feelings are totally justified, since feelings can never be argued with. One either agree or disagree, and if its the latter, the wise thing to do is keep quiet. Most people dont. The tendency is to react in a kind of knee-jerk fashion. In Buddhism, training in mindfulness helps to alleviate this sort of mundane reactions, so its not totally that useless as a practice.

 

Personally i do have issues with any form of organized religio/spiritual thingy too! Therefore i have long disassociated myself from any of these *schools*. I felt it was too restrictive for me, and rebelled against that. Perhaps that is my own mistaken projection, i dont really know nor care too much.

 

Offering money can be good. Generally speaking that is. Its part of altruistic cultivation no? But on the other hand, i can see where you are coming from. Alot of these organizations are run like a business nowadays with their own financial controllers, top lawyers, business advisors, spin doctors and the whole shebang! It is quite offputting really.

 

Prostrations are very good. The outer, inner and secret aspects have to be understood deeply to know how beneficial this practice really is. I know some of my friends have issues with this, so i told them to prostrate to a picture of themselves, if only to reap the outer benefits!!

 

I do not know of many (maybe none at all) Buddhist preachers and evangelists. Hallelujah!

 

Regards!

Edited October 26, 2009 by CowTao

[Stigweard]

Just to throw a Daoist slant in amongst the midst, or perhaps a cat amongst the pigeons, the concept of Karma, in its commonly excepted form, doesn't exist within Daoism per se.

 

Rather we have what can be referred to as The Law of Universal Energy Response. Within this view it is observed that the Universal flow of nature is always seeking harmony. Thus a discordant action will beget a harmonization response.

 

This natural law also states: One's life experience is in perfect synchrony with one's internal energy vibration. One's internal energy vibration is determined by the sum contents of one's mind.

 

Also there is the recognition that collective energy vibrations exist. A family, for example, will have it's own collective vibration made up by the sum vibration of the individuals. Just so it is for a community, nation, and planet.

[Tao99]

... he has simply posted an opinion, and you (Ralis and theSofDE) attack him again and again simply because his opinion differs.

 

If I have seen anyone putting someone down, it has been you. To do so as constantly as you do, and then to blame the very person who you've been putting down for putting you down is simply saddening.

 

Hi Capital,

 

Your assertions made me curious, and I re-read this thread from the beginning to see if its true.

 

Actually if you read it again you will see:

 

1. ralis made his first comment to someone else - not V, and V then went after ralis specifically and directly, and simply because "his opinion differed" (but that being allowed on a forum right?)

 

2. They debated the karma point back and forth, until it was V - not ralis - who then launched a personal "attack" or as Stig calls it an insult or what debate/logic rules call an ad hominem, and specifically an Ad hominem abusive (see below)

 

3. ralis quite naturally responded directly back to V that this was out of bounds, a "condescending statement" against the person not against the debate point (as was true), and did so in quite a moderate way.

 

4. Then V responded to that and it descended in that tone - first set by himself - from there.

 

Here's the ad hominem in red:

 

QUOTE(Vajrahridaya @ Oct 23 2009, 03:37 PM) "It seems to me that you are interpreting things in very simplistic black and white ways. Your not seeing the grey."

 

ralis: "I make a statement and I receive a lecture on the Buddhist ideology of karma as a universal absolute. My views are not simplistic. Will you ever stop framing condescending statements?"

 

You see how that is going after the person not the debate evidence? That is going after the person instead of debating the karma point evidence itself. It is basically saying he is a simpleton and so he is wrong.

 

 

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

 

Types of ad hominems

 

Ad hominem abusive usually involves insulting or belittling one's opponent, but can also involve pointing out factual but ostensible character flaws or actions which are irrelevant to the opponent's argument. This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and even true negative facts about the opponent's personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent's arguments or assertions.

 

Examples:

 

* "You can't believe Jack when he says God exists. He doesn't even have a job."

* "Candidate Jane's proposal about zoning is ridiculous. She was caught cheating on her taxes in 2003."

 

 

Or our example here:

 

* "You can't believe ralis on his karma point because he interprets things in "very simplistic ... ways."

 

 

I hope you will reconsider your opinion, as I think it's unfair as proven above.

 

have a good one.

Edited October 26, 2009 by Tao99

[Vajrahridaya]

How could the people that died in the Pacific theater in WWII have a connection with Hitler and Stalin. I put that 60 million in as the approximate total for the entire war.

 

Not a personal connection. An impersonal connection to be connected to these peoples exploits in any way like the 6 degrees of separation theory. Connected through connections that are connected, etc. I understand that dependent origination and the process of causation is beyond your capacity to comprehend as you hold tightly the sense of difference and duality. You are having a hard time seeing inter-connectivity so your interpretation of my posts are lacking due to not being able to see the meaning directly.

 

 

Buddhists just don't want to get their hands dirty with the realities of existence. Just spotless and pure!

 

I don't see dirt, just interdependent arisings without inherent existence. So, things are pure as they are, even though they are also as they seem. The two truths integrated seamlessly.

 

I have always felt that Buddhism is not proactive enough in the world.

 

Teaching people the way out of Samsara has been the mission of Buddhism since day one, not philanthropic work which is merely patch work. Teaching real method and philosophy that leads to freedom from the conditions of suffering through a process of progress is the Buddhist axiom.

 

How many have actually benefited from this system in the last 2500 yrs?

 

Since the Buddha, millions of humans have attained Buddhahood, both known and unknown.

 

Not everyone will see this or get this obviously. Because you cannot see this or make sense of this doesn't mean that it's not so.

 

I just don't see how preaching karmic dogma helps anyone. It is nothing more than another mechanistic view of the cosmos.

ralis

 

Everything seems mechanistic in explanation but in realization it's actually quite organic and much deeper than the explanation. There are poetic ways of putting things and there have been many poetic Buddhas who you may like to hear from.

 

 

 

 

I hope you will reconsider your opinion, as I think it's unfair as proven above.

 

have a good one.

 

Actually Tao99. If you really want to be objective, you have to go back many, many months in previous posts to see the history of ralis' postings towards me.

 

Not just in this thread, or the last few threads but probably about 50 threads and 100 posts from ralis to me that are all pretty mean spirited.

 

The things I say to ralis reflect this long 6 to 7 month history, not just a few posts. If you were to look at Songs posts towards me historically as well as your posts towards me historically. I think you'd be surprised at what people with an actual objective view point would feel.

 

That you are part of the gang of 3 who stalk me and post negative comment after negative comment simply due to the fact that what I post is contrary to your view.

 

My so called Ad-Hom's to you reflect history as well Tao99. You started posting pretty emotional posts some time ago then stopped for a while, then picked up again.

 

p.s.

 

I think I'll go back to ignoring you 3 as any engagement is fruitless.

Edited October 27, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

I don't see dirt, just interdependent arisings without inherent existence. So, things are pure as they are, even though they are also as they seem. The two truths integrated seamlessly.

I sense much consistency and clarity in this statement.. if you will allow a slightly different perspective (though some will see it differently).. my experiences reveal the "two truths" to be Oneness manifested as many-ness, each defining the other in a relationship we call existence.. Ancient mystics represented this relationship with the Taiji symbol (Yin/Yang).. it is the unnoticed element of this symbol that many disregard, the 'nothingness' which contrasts the relationship.. the weathered stone wall on which someone painted the 'symbol'..

 

Be well..

[ralis]

 

I understand that dependent origination and the process of causation is beyond your capacity to comprehend as you hold tightly the sense of difference and duality. You are having a hard time seeing inter-connectivity so your interpretation of my posts are lacking due to not being able to see the meaning directly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You have no right to judge what my capacity is or is not! You frame your projections towards me from a hierarchical authoritarian structure. I am familiar with the Buddhist analysis of the highest capacity to the lowest capacity. That type of analysis is an unreasonable construct to project on people.

 

ralis