A person with awareness, a person within awareness

[forestofclarity]

True or not? What's your subjective belief?

 

 

Awareness Cartoon

Edited October 23, 2009 by forestofemptiness

[doc benway]

Cool cartoon!

[Vajrahridaya]

Neat! We need more non-dual depiction cartoons. I don't know if I should share a dream here that I have more than once, at least this one part, but I'm feeling inspired to do so, so... I'll do it.

 

It's different dreams that have a repeating element to it, as different things happen after this first part which repeats. The repeating element is;

 

I wake up in sleep paralysis which happens often enough so it doesn't scare me anymore, I just follow the feeling and relax into it, and I slowly slip out of my body... I then find myself in a state of a wondrous bliss. I'm made of light and everything is just this light, a bright white light. I'm floating in this light, made of the light, experienced as bliss. I'm both aware of being in the light and that I am the light with the regular me swimming in formless me. I am both seeing from the perspective of being the person swimming around in the light, more like floating around in the light and I'm aware from the perspective of being the light that I'm floating in. So, I'm having perception from both sides. Having vision through the eyes of the "light being" swimming and the light itself being one big eye that is looking at me swimming in me. Like seeing through two heads at the same time except one level of perception does not have a center of vision to see from, there are no eyes, it's seeing from all directions at once and the other one, the little me swimming in the big me is seeing through the two eyes. So it's simultaneously limited vision and 360 spherical vision focusing in on a person floating around within itself. Like the ocean was suddenly aware of a fish inside of it, except I'm both the fish and the ocean.

 

According to Buddhist interpretation of this experience, my consciousness was basically just experiencing the water element which appears as white light and this water element is all around. I was aware that my consciousness was mingling with the all pervasive pure level of water element, the freedom was blissful, and there was no sense of concrete identity as well, there was just awareness and bliss. The big formless awareness which was my consciousness being aware beyond it's habitual identification with the body, was seeing the little me blissfully floating within it, but the color was all the same, yet I could differentiate both houses of consciousness, one was the water element and the other was my subtle mind body. Though it was white on white, I was aware both of the unity because both experiences of simultaneous awareness' was from my one consciousness, my mind stream. I was aware of the contrast without there having to be color, like I could see my face and the details of it without there having to be shades and color differences.

 

Though it's hard to explain and probably even harder to read, this type of experience I feel shows that awareness is not trapped within or dependent upon the physical body to see. That apparent limitations are merely a game, or a play on a stage that we do for fun, but we have forgotten how fun it is. Of course individual intentions for becoming physical and limited differ from mind stream to mind stream and the causes for birth into this realm differ from being to being. Yet, at the beginning of any particular cosmic cycle, the intention was probably merely for the sake of experience propelled by the condition of a feeling of need left over from the last universe since we didn't become Buddhas then. I don't personally see awareness as some mysterious will that choses to condition itself out of some desire or will to do so. I don't see it as the source of all things either, but I see that our individual consciousness can become aware of subtler paradigms than the 5 senses, thus transcending body and brain consciousness. Because when we come out of this subtle state we see our physical universe kind of re-manifest perceptually, we assume that it's awareness that's doing this, but it's really just conditions of the physical habit coming back into awareness from a subtler paradigm of consciousness. Our consciousness occupies dimensions beyond the body even while we are only being aware of the body level and sense consciousness most of the time.

 

I'm having a hard time explaining this right now as I find that as I try to explain there is a flood of information and dimensions and details that need to be explained, so I feel like a huge book is trying to be expressed here... Which I'm not going to write, right now. So... thank you for posting this and asking us to express our beliefs around this. It's always a nice challenge to try to put experience beyond the linearity of sequential time and of limitations of expressed on paper words through the English language. Thank you.

 

Take care!

[Vajrahridaya]

Double post.

Edited October 23, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[Marblehead]

I personally like the first one titled "misconception". Sweet and simple. Down to earth reality. Afterall, if there was no body there would be nothing to realize awareness with.

 

Peace & Love!

[Vajrahridaya]

I personally like the first one titled "misconception". Sweet and simple. Down to earth reality. Afterall, if there was no body there would be nothing to realize awareness with.

 

Peace & Love!

 

It's not that there is nobody there, it's that you are relative and not absolute.

 

Down to earth reality.

 

Peace & Love!

 

Down to Earth is not an absolute, it's relative, dependent upon level of direct experience. Do what you want, but I'm not a fan of using this phrase as a way to limit perception or as a mental dogma, because it's a vague phrase. What does that mean? What is the Earth? A scientist see's something different from the Archeologist, just as the actor will see something different from the Zoo keeper.

Edited October 23, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[Marblehead]

Well, I never expected my post to go unchallenged. Hehehe.

 

It's not that there is nobody there, it's that you are relative and not absolute.

 

I agree. I am not absolute. That is, I did not create the universe. I am a creation of the universe. I am an example of the processes of change. Once I wasn't here, now I am here, and one day I will not longer be here. (First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is.)

 

Down to Earth is not an absolute, it's relative, dependent upon level of direct experience.

 

Totally agree. The Manifest is only a small portion of the absolute. Science seems to think that it is only 2%. And, of course, the Earth is such a very small part of the totality of the Manifest. Wow! I am almost insignificant. Hehehe.

 

Peace & Love!

[Vajrahridaya]

Totally agree. The Manifest is only a small portion of the absolute. Science seems to think that it is only 2%. And, of course, the Earth is such a very small part of the totality of the Manifest. Wow! I am almost insignificant. Hehehe.

 

Peace & Love!

 

A drop in an endless ocean. But, a drop as a human form can experience beyond being merely this drop.

[Marblehead]

A drop in an endless ocean. But, a drop as a human form can experience beyond being merely this drop.

 

Hehehe. You have inspired me to mention once again the words 'illusion' and 'delusion'.

 

Imagination is a wonderful thing. It can be a vehicle for us to make our life a 'better' experience and create a 'better' condition for us to live in.

 

However, it can also be the vehicle that will cause us to become totally lost and confused.

 

But life goes on and I think that this is a good thing.

 

Peace & Love!

[Vajrahridaya]

Hehehe. You have inspired me to mention once again the words 'illusion' and 'delusion'.

 

Imagination is a wonderful thing. It can be a vehicle for us to make our life a 'better' experience and create a 'better' condition for us to live in.

 

However, it can also be the vehicle that will cause us to become totally lost and confused.

 

But life goes on and I think that this is a good thing.

 

Peace & Love!

 

Ah, what a majority of human beings consider to be the limits of their experience. Limiting others by their own experiential excuse for such. Thinking that reality is as it's seen. The majority use a very small portion of their human potential, brain much less mind capacity. Conditioned by a majority consensus, deluded into thinking the 5 senses are the crucible of human experience. The illusion is a passing play, deemed real because of a lack of memory. Projecting delusion on those who don't fall for the lie most clutch to their chests out of fear of insolidity.

 

Your senses lie to you Marble. Your habit patterns agree.

[Marblehead]

Ah, what a majority of human beings consider to be the limits of their experience. Limiting others by their own experiential excuse for such. Thinking that reality is as it's seen. The majority use a very small portion of their human potential, brain much less mind capacity. Conditioned by a majority consensus, deluded into thinking the 5 senses are the crucible of human experience. The illusion is a passing play, deemed real because of a lack of memory. Projecting delusion on those who don't fall for the lie most clutch to their chests out of fear of insolidity.

 

Your senses lie to you Marble. Your habit patterns agree.

 

So you wish to speak on this subject again, do you? Okay. One more time 'round.

 

For all purpose and intent, on this forum I am Marblehead. When Marblehead speaks he speaks only for himself based on his prior knowledge and experiences. What Marblehead says may not apply to any other person on this planet not does he ever wish to suggest to anyone that his understandings are in any way a "Truth".

 

So. Marblehead speaks only for himself but wishes to share his understandings so that these understandings might in some way help others in their search for peace and contentment.

 

Marblehead does not believe in miracles or anything that is 'unnatural'. Once upon a time he did but it always caused confusion because the belief in such things conflicted with his reality and he never found peace or contentment. So he threw all those ideas that were fed to him when he was a youngster out the window and started questioning all the various beliefs he had been fed to see if any of them would help him live a more peaceful and contented life.

 

And you know what? Marblehead didn't let any of that wierd stuff back into his belief system. If it didn't help him in some way to live a happier life he considered it to be useless.

 

Now, we could say that Marblehead is a really strange guy. He doesn't believe in angels or fairies. He doesn't believe in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny. He doesn't believe in places called 'heaven' and 'hell'. He doesn't believe that he lived many prior lifes and he doesn't believe he will ever live another life after this one is finished. He doesn't even believe that there is some god somewhere who is going to grant him his every wish.

 

WoW! It looks like Marblehead doesn't believe in anything. Well, it is true, Marblehead doesn't believe in anything that appears to be unbelieveable or unnatural. So what does Marblehead believe in?

 

Marblehead believes in eveything that is believeable. Ain't that wierd? He believes that fish are supposed to life in water because he has seen fish that have died because either the water evaporated or they had jumped out of the water and could not get back into the water.

 

Marblehead believes that he does not have the capability to live under the surface of the water. He got pulled under water one time by an undertoe and nearly died because when he tried to breath he only filled his lungs with water and nearly choked to death.

 

Marblehead also believes that he cannot really fly. He can pretend he can fly and fly off to his favorite place in Italy and enjoy the beauty for a while but he understands that he is really sitting in his recliner in his house in Florida.

 

Yes, Marblehead can pretend that he is a three-legged pig. But he really isn't a three-legged pig. He is an animal of the human species. That is all. With all his good and bad qualities. Nothing more, nothing less. He will never really be a three-legged pig.

 

For Marblehead, if something sounds unbelieveable it probably is. Kinda' like that saying, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, chances are it is a duck. No, a platypus is not a duck and a duck is not a platypus. Marblehead does not make those association errors.

 

Association errors are funny things. Many people believe that because they can imagine something then it is possible for it to be real. This is an error and a fault in reasoning. If Marblehead doesn't understand something he says he doesn't understand it - he doesn't go about making up faulty explanations and creating erroneous answers for what he doesn't understand.

 

So, even though Marblehead can imagine Vajrahridaya to be a Buddha it probably isn't true and would be nothing less than an error in judgement.

 

So, as I will always defend my free will and my freedom to choose I will also defend those rights of everyone else. We each decide what we want to believe and no other person has the right to tell us that we are wrong. All they have a righ to is to say that they believe differently. And this is cause for good healthy discussion. Afterall, one of us may be delusional and the discussion may help us in finding a truer truth (for us).

 

Marblehead will now pause to breath.

 

Peace & Love!

[Vajrahridaya]

 

 

Marblehead does not believe in miracles or anything that is 'unnatural'.

 

 

I don't believe in unnatural either. But what natural is, is constantly being re-examined and re-theorized around by scientists. I don't think miracles are anything other than life itself. Of course things that occur due to metaphysical power and knowledge may be deemed a miracle to someone, but that's just natural stuff to me. There are countless "miracles" that are tucked away in files that people ignore due to the inability to accurately ascertain the causes through physical scientific apparatuses.

 

Once upon a time he did but it always caused confusion because the belief in such things conflicted with his reality and he never found peace or contentment. So he threw all those ideas that were fed to him when he was a youngster out the window and started questioning all the various beliefs he had been fed to see if any of them would help him live a more peaceful and contented life.

 

I don't know what you are talking about, but I'm glad you found something that could work out a sense of complacency.

 

And you know what? Marblehead didn't let any of that wierd stuff back into his belief system. If it didn't help him in some way to live a happier life he considered it to be useless.

 

True, it was probably all just a bunch of beliefs anyway. One has to have direct insight for such things as re-birth and interdimensional vision and experience and what not to actually work for one's state of peace.

 

Now, we could say that Marblehead is a really strange guy. He doesn't believe in angels or fairies.

 

Well, you could be open to the possibility, right? You don't have to think about it all the time in a way that probably engenders frustration and obsession. But, to cut oneself off entirely due to a lack of remembered experience would be pretty narrow, don't ya think? I like to say... "Well... it might be true, but I won't let it bother me."

 

He doesn't believe in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

 

Well that's different, those are actual historical fantasies, the others above are just beings from another dimension of existence which science is finding some truth in these days.

 

He doesn't believe in places called 'heaven' and 'hell'.

Well, they don't have to be called heavens or hells, but to absolutely cut off the possibility of other worlds of existence in this vast universe would be pretty... self limiting.

 

He doesn't believe that he lived many prior lifes and he doesn't believe he will ever live another life after this one is finished.

 

There certainly are some pretty intriguing proofs surrounding such things illuminating the real possibility that... yes you did. For instance, very young kids who remember graphic details of their past lives without any other source of information other than their own memories? Pretty convincing! Though I don't need convincing.

 

He doesn't even believe that there is some god somewhere who is going to grant him his every wish.

 

Well... I bet if you were very nice to Bill Gates, he might manifest as that for ya, just once.

 

 

 

WoW! It looks like Marblehead doesn't believe in anything. Well, it is true, Marblehead doesn't believe in anything that appears to be unbelieveable or unnatural. So what does Marblehead believe in?

 

Ah, there you go again, the word "natural" again, used in such a limiting fashion. What's natural? There is so much to what is natural... very complicated and not so cut and dry 5 sense limited.

 

Marblehead believes in eveything that is believeable. Ain't that wierd? He believes that fish are supposed to life in water because he has seen fish that have died because either the water evaporated or they had jumped out of the water and could not get back into the water.

 

Basically physical reality, which is proven by science to be somewhat of an illusion of the 5 senses is the limit of your belief system?

 

Marblehead believes that he does not have the capability to live under the surface of the water. He got pulled under water one time by an undertoe and nearly died because when he tried to breath he only filled his lungs with water and nearly choked to death.

 

Sounds like you used to be quite the extremist. Now you went extreme the other direction to quite the conservative vision? I hope it suits you well for as long as you live.

 

 

Association errors are funny things. Many people believe that because they can imagine something then it is possible for it to be real. This is an error and a fault in reasoning. If Marblehead doesn't understand something he says he doesn't understand it - he doesn't go about making up faulty explanations and creating erroneous answers for what he doesn't understand.

 

What if they are true and your answers are erroneous? One could be more open minded and agnostic about such limitations in criteria for reality.

 

So, even though Marblehead can imagine Vajrahridaya to be a Buddha it probably isn't true and would be nothing less than an error in judgement.

 

Well yes, you'd be right there my dear.

 

So, as I will always defend my free will and my freedom to choose I will also defend those rights of everyone else. We each decide what we want to believe and no other person has the right to tell us that we are wrong.

 

I have the right to tell you that you are wrong!

 

I hope that doesn't boil your blood.

 

That doesn't mean that I'm right though. But, I feel that I'm more right than you are. That doesn't mean that you don't have the right to think that I'm delusional, because you do!

 

All they have a righ to is to say that they believe differently. And this is cause for good healthy discussion. Afterall, one of us may be delusional and the discussion may help us in finding a truer truth (for us).

 

No doubt!

 

Marblehead will now pause to breath.

 

Peace & Love!

 

Didn't mean to get under your skin or chap your hide. It's all good buddy.

 

It's all relative, just all in good fun and discussion, and expression of words.

Edited October 24, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[Marblehead]

Didn't mean to get under your skin or chap your hide. It's all good buddy.

 

It's all relative, just all in good fun and discussion, and expression of words.

 

Oh, you didn't get under my skin. I am pretty much beyond that anymore.

 

So bottom line, neither of us have changed our beliefs since we last spoke on this topic.

 

But at least now the viewer has two alternatives to consider.

 

And perhaps it is true that I limit myself but it works for me and that's all that really matters. And what works for you is good for you.

 

And don't be worrying about me and my limited view of life. I'm doing Great!, thank you.

 

And so I guess even awareness is what we want it to be.

 

Peace & Love!

Edited October 24, 2009 by Marblehead

[Vajrahridaya]

Oh, you didn't get under my skin. I am pretty much beyond that anymore.

 

So bottom line, neither of us have changed our beliefs since we last spoke on this topic.

 

But at least now the viewer has two alternatives to consider.

 

And perhaps it is true that I limit myself but it works for me and that's all that really matters. And what works for you is good for you.

 

And don't be worrying about me and my limited view of life. I'm doing Great!, thank you.

 

And so I guess even awareness is what we want it to be.

 

Peace & Love!

 

Wonderful response Marble. I'm happy with it.

 

Thanks broskii!!

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

 

I have the right to tell you that you are wrong!

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, it's true, you do have the 'right' to tell people here that they are wrong.

Is it any wonder that you continue to get oppositional with many people here?

 

A more civil way of expressing the same thing would be:

 

'I disagree. Let me tell you why.'

 

By making other people "wrong" (and may I politely point out that you do it quite often) you of course become

"right". If you are here in the interest of "good fun and discussion", you might want to consider a better way to express your opinions and beliefs than to tell others that they are "wrong". Just a suggestion...

Edited October 24, 2009 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[C T]

Oh, you didn't get under my skin. I am pretty much beyond that anymore.

 

So bottom line, neither of us have changed our beliefs since we last spoke on this topic.

 

But at least now the viewer has two alternatives to consider.

 

And perhaps it is true that I limit myself but it works for me and that's all that really matters. And what works for you is good for you.

 

And don't be worrying about me and my limited view of life. I'm doing Great!, thank you.

 

And so I guess even awareness is what we want it to be.

 

Peace & Love!

 

Hello M'head!

 

Hows your weekend going buddy? When i read this, it suddenly reminded me of a line from *Illusions* (Richard Bach) where he (the reluctant Messiah ) says, "Argue for your limitations, and sure enough, they are yours". Do you suppose he has a point there? Do you believe it is in accordance with your guiding principle of free-will to live a life where one defends one's limitations and declare, "So what? I am happy and contented" - which sounds a bit like that sad base commander that you mentioned who pee-d in his pants (god love him) - well, you did opine that that was rather pathetic so it kinda put a question into my mind when i read your declaration here. I (just an *empty* vessel ) might have totally misunderstood where you came from re. the commander story, and if i have, i apologize.

 

Your views?

 

You also mentioned miracles. Is it possible that all the small things we do everyday, like the ability to pick noses and stuff, are indeed miracles? Could it be that because we have taken all these simple gifts for granted that we no longer attribute any significance to these supernormal abilities that each of us have? Perhaps those without their full physical functions would consent to the fact that you and i do indeed partake in miracles each and every moment while alive. If you think about it, even breathing is a supramundane activity, and there is a mindfulness practice within Buddhism (i think) that actually reminds us that to be alive, to be able to breathe, is indeed a gift!

 

For clarity's sake, i just want to mention to you that i am not a Buddhist. I am just an impure and empty vessel who is just here to listen and learn from all the great sages and realized beings expounding their wisdom and sharing their experiences. For example, after a few days here, i am beginning to see you are quite a wise man yourself.

 

Thanks! Be good, for goodness' sake!

[Marblehead]

Hi CowTao,

 

Excellent comments and questions. I will do my best to address them as honestly and fully as I can.

 

Hello M'head! Hows your weekend going buddy?

 

I'm doing great, thanks. I was going to clean house today but I haven't even started so I guess house cleaning will be for another day.

 

When i read this, it suddenly reminded me of a line from *Illusions* (Richard Bach) where he (the reluctant Messiah ) says, "Argue for your limitations, and sure enough, they are yours". Do you suppose he has a point there? Do you believe it is in accordance with your guiding principle of free-will to live a life where one defends one's limitations and declare, "So what? I am happy and contented" - which sounds a bit like that sad base commander that you mentioned who pee-d in his pants (god love him) - well, you did opine that that was rather pathetic so it kinda put a question into my mind when i read your declaration here. I (just an *empty* vessel ) might have totally misunderstood where you came from re. the commander story, and if i have, i apologize. Your views?

 

Absolutely. Whenever we argue our belief it becomes ours. And other people will view us as a believer of that belief. I think that this applies to nearly every aspect of our life. Even our illusions and delusions, if we fail to keep them in perspective they will gradually become a part of our reality. In another thread I mentioned that I have my set of delusions that allow me to maintain my peace and contentment while I am home but when I leave home i leave my delusions at home because they don't apply to the 'real' world.

 

Limitations. Yes, we all place limitations on ourself in one way or another. There are some things we opt to not do for whatever the reason. We do this in order to lessen our inner conflicts so we can be at peace with ourself. Just because we have the ability to do some thing doesn't mean we are going to do it - we place limits on ourself.

 

Yes, I hold very dearly to the concept of free will. And free will is associated with our limitations because we have the free will to place limits on ourself or not. Granted, so people have more limited free will than others have because of many variables but we all still have the free will to believe whatever it is we believe. And, of course, most of us have limits placed upon us by external powers, laws, a wife or husband, parents, etc.

 

Yean, the commander's free will was very limited. The best way he could express it was to pee himself. Nearly all his other freedoms were limited by others as well as having had limits placed on him by others. He still wanted to express his free will and the only way he could express it was to pee himself. Other than that he had to live according to others' limits and will.

 

You also mentioned miracles. Is it possible that all the small things we do everyday, like the ability to pick noses and stuff, are indeed miracles? Could it be that because we have taken all these simple gifts for granted that we no longer attribute any significance to these supernormal abilities that each of us have? Perhaps those without their full physical functions would consent to the fact that you and i do indeed partake in miracles each and every moment while alive. If you think about it, even breathing is a supramundane activity, and there is a mindfulness practice within Buddhism (i think) that actually reminds us that to be alive, to be able to breathe, is indeed a gift!

 

Miracles. I have limited myself to only two choices. I can either state that life itself is a miracle, which it is, thereby suggesting that everything to do with life is a miracle. In this case everything would be a miracle thereby negating the concept and definition of a miracle. Or, I could just say that I do not believe in miracles. I have chosen the latter.

 

Supernormal is a different subject. Subnormal is different as well. But both are natural, all things considered. What I drive at when speaking of this subject is that any event, regardless of what it is, cannot happen if it is impossible for it to happen naturally. But this applies only to any given point in time because of the concept of change. What is impossible today may become possible tomorrow. Fifty years ago it was impossible to fly to the moon. Since that time there have been many people who have flown to and visited the moon.

 

It is impossible for me to breathe under water without mechanical assistance. I'm pretty sure this will be so tomorrow as well. However, the human species may evolve in such a way that humans may one day be able to breathe underwater and breathe air as well. Similar to the mud fish and a few other animals.

 

For clarity's sake, i just want to mention to you that i am not a Buddhist. I am just an impure and empty vessel who is just here to listen and learn from all the great sages and realized beings expounding their wisdom and sharing their experiences. For example, after a few days here, i am beginning to see you are quite a wise man yourself.

 

Thanks! Be good, for goodness' sake!

 

Hehehe. I did tempt you to clarify that, didn't I. I was just curious. Yes, empty vessel is a wonderous condition. I am half full. Hehehe. (Hey, don't be considering what you think I am half full of! Hehehe.)

 

I thank you for the compliment. I don't feel worthy of it but that's okay, it's good for my ego. Hehehe.

 

I am here to share and learn and hopefully help someone along their journey. As I mentioned just a few minutes ago somewhere, I'm not here trying to sell anything. I'm not trying to convert anyone to Taoism. If I can cause someone to think I have done a great deed. Doesn't matter if they agree with me or not, just as long as they think.

 

And I have seen wisdom in some of your posts as well. You have thoughts to share with others that I feel may help others.

 

Even my friend V. has wisdom he can share. (I just wish he is able to find a smoother way of presenting it. Hehehe. But he has made progress recently - I needed to point that out.)

 

If I did not clarify myself adequately above don't hesitate to question me further.

 

Have a Great day!

 

Peace & Love!

[rain]

It's not that there is nobody there, it's that you are relative and not absolute.

Down to Earth is not an absolute, it's relative, dependent upon level of direct experience. Do what you want, but I'm not a fan of using this phrase as a way to limit perception or as a mental dogma, because it's a vague phrase. What does that mean? What is the Earth? A scientist see's something different from the Archeologist, just as the actor will see something different from the Zoo keeper.

 

I highlighted something I found worth pondering

I too have made this assumption but through experience

the "I" shedding its facets thus beoming more and more both exact and relative through

holding and releasing until

these paradoxes seem to melt or become redundant

be cause the shift of energycentre changes and

refocuses on the reflection of the mirror reflection of this EYE "I"s ever present momentual

prayer for contextual meaning of th-usness.

 

falling down to earth is not necessarily about becoming absolute but about learning how to

deal with th-usness.

 

like many tmes before when Ive felt like responding to an issue Im on thin ice

 

but there is for me something profound here

because I was taught a story about being close to the physical

that may be very close to a lie

 

being physical is for me

being without mental angle

 

and deep meditation is

not the same

but

..somehow similar

Edited October 24, 2009 by rain

[Marblehead]

Hi Rain,

 

Although the post was direct to V. I would like to make comment none-the-less. V. is not bashful and will speak if he has the desire regardless of what I say. Hehehe.

 

Please understand that most of my words in the above posts are from the Manifest point of view only.

 

I often speak to the idea that a Taoist should have one foot in the Manifest (yo) and one foot in the Mystery (wu). That is how I truely live. It is just when I am discussing reality with a Buddhist that I take the 'both feet in the Manifest' side of a discussion because they generally speaking from the 'both feet in the Mystery' side.

 

But everything I say I truely believe - it's just that I am not saying "everything" I believe.

 

Peace & Love!

[rain]

Hi Rain,

 

Although the post was direct to V. I would like to make comment none-the-less. V. is not bashful and will speak if he has the desire regardless of what I say. Hehehe.

 

Please understand that most of my words in the above posts are from the Manifest point of view only.

 

I often speak to the idea that a Taoist should have one foot in the Manifest (yo) and one foot in the Mystery (wu). That is how I truely live. It is just when I am discussing reality with a Buddhist that I take the 'both feet in the Manifest' side of a discussion because they generally speaking from the 'both feet in the Mystery' side.

 

But everything I say I truely believe - it's just that I am not saying "everything" I believe.

 

Peace & Love!

 

Yes?

 

 

hey M

I wasn't aware you were here. is this the manifest?

I'm hardly here

 

lol

[C T]

M'head,

 

Hehehe such weakness i have to have given in to temptation and fell into the *whole* you dug for me, exposing myself to proudly (ego ego) declare that i am not a buddhist - an absolutist statement which i normally refrain from making. There - you got me! Should i go 'ouch'? hehehe

 

Frankly, having been one for 49 and some years, i still wonder (hence the empty vessel allusion) what a dam buddhist is ! Yep, i am 49+ so i guess i was born one - my grandpappy was a Sri Lankan lay Buddhist elder, and hence our culture and heritage evolves very much around it, although my mom's side of the family are all traditionally Chinese Taoist influenced, so i can relate very easily to a lot of the Taoist posts here, but only superficially, as, being lazy and all, never made any attempt to learn more about this wise philosophy, which is a real shame. My ancestors must be fuming at this point - a traitor in the midst! But you know what? We all co-existed (it was a BIG family - 10 siblings mom's side and 12 in my dad's!) harmoniously! I had a great time growing up, you know, with all the traditional celebrations - it was like getting a double-dose of it all so it was wonderful! Every other week there was a celebration of some sort (a slight exaggeration but when one is that age there isnt a very concrete concept of time is there?).

 

Where i grew up (Malaysia) i recall meeting quite a few Maoshan masters who were friends of my maternal grandpappy(gp), and these guys lived in isolation in deep forests in caves and huts, and they would occasionally come out into the village to *help* certain people with their problems, and because my gp used to own a liquor store, they would take the opportunity to visit and stock up on their favorite tipple, which was usually herbal wines from China, which i guess, had many uses. I have also witnessed some of their secret abilities, one of which was turning a few pebbles picked up off the dirt road and turning them into chinese dumplings. There were quite a few other astonishing incidents, all of which have left me, even to this day, in much awe.

 

So miracles and magic are not that strange to those who come from the East. But this does not mean that we regard that all life is a miracle. Far from it. But it does stop us from negating the existence of things that is beyond the grasp of normal sensory perceptions.

 

Having said all this, it is not my intention to convince you that you need to rethink your life-principle and beliefs. Any attempt to do so would only imply arrogance and silly self-righteousness. I am merely sharing a tiny portion of my childhood memories, just as you have shared some of your military adventures.

 

Before i conclude, i would just like to add that, personally, i am quite sure i will not know if i have lived as a buddhist (or more like a hypocrite - perhaps just a hair's breadth separating the two) until i draw my last breath. This justifies the proclamation that i am not a buddhist, i guess.

 

Until then, kow tow-ing to every one here, and my ancestors hehehe, i remain....an empty vessel trying to make some sort of noise!

 

Be well!

Edited October 24, 2009 by CowTao

[forestofclarity]

Mahayana Buddhists often go off the deep end. Metaphysics, theory, etc etc. Theravadans tend to be more grounded.

 

I also think its good to have both. I fear that people here often get confused with particular Buddhist practitioners and Buddhism generally.

 

 

I often speak to the idea that a Taoist should have one foot in the Manifest (yo) and one foot in the Mystery (wu). That is how I truely live. It is just when I am discussing reality with a Buddhist that I take the 'both feet in the Manifest' side of a discussion because they generally speaking from the 'both feet in the Mystery' side.

[Marblehead]

Yes?

hey M

I wasn't aware you were here. is this the manifest?

I'm hardly here

 

lol

 

 

Funny! Funny! I'm still laughing.

 

Yes, this is the manifest. I'm glad you are here even if it is hardly.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

Hehehe such weakness i have to have given in to temptation and fell into the *whole* you dug for me, exposing myself to proudly (ego ego) declare that i am not a buddhist - an absolutist statement which i normally refrain from making. There - you got me! Should i go 'ouch'? hehehe

 

No 'ouch' needed. That ws just a reality check. Hehehe. You are an honest person. I admire that.

 

BTW I didn't read my first translation of the TTC until I was 40 years old so there is still plenty of time for you to get started. You would be a good Taoist. Hehehe.

 

Thanks for sharing a bit of your life with us. I think from what you said I would have loved to spend a couple months with your grandpa.

 

Until then, kow tow-ing to every one here, and my ancestors hehehe, i remain....an empty vessel trying to make some sort of noise!

 

Be well!

 

And I salute you, my friend. You know, the Tao is like an empty vessel, empty yet giving forth without end, and in being given back to, is never filled.

 

Peace & Love!

 

 

 

Mahayana Buddhists often go off the deep end. Metaphysics, theory, etc etc. Theravadans tend to be more grounded.

 

I also think its good to have both. I fear that people here often get confused with particular Buddhist practitioners and Buddhism generally.

 

Hi Forest,

 

Nicely pointed out. I truely believe that Buddhism is a very good belief system. But those who speak on forums like this should, as you say, be more grounded.

 

Peace & Love!

[C T]

Mahayana Buddhists often go off the deep end. Metaphysics, theory, etc etc. Theravadans tend to be more grounded.

 

I also think its good to have both. I fear that people here often get confused with particular Buddhist practitioners and Buddhism generally.

 

This observation, if i may ask - Is it based on your personal experience and dialogue with many different buddhists?

 

I have a few friends from both schools of practice, and they all seem quite grounded to me.

 

Often the ones who go off the deep end, from what i have seen, are those who are merely infatuated with the *idea* of the philosophy, or some guru or lama, or because its the in thing to do. They were already confused prior to exposure, and their very enthusiasm only serve to compound this confusion. Am i being accurate here?

 

What would your suggestion be to these people? Lets assume i am highly taken in by this amazing, powerful, charismatic teacher, and follows him/her everywhere, listening wide-eyed to every single word that he/she utters, buying every single book about this teacher, not to mention CDs, making hefty donations etc. What advice would you give me? How will you convince me of my errant ways so that my confusion can be dispelled?

 

I hope this is a relevant enough issue to be examined in this thread, seeing it is about awareness.

 

Thank you.

Edited October 24, 2009 by CowTao